to the
traditional way of the wife taking her husband's name. I wonder what
people's reactions
to that were, and would they share that information with us.
This happens in Sweden, where the default now is that both parties keep
their family names and that children receive that of their mother. If you
want some other arrangement, you have to tell the registration authorities,
and that goes for a woman taking the man's name as well as the other way
round.
TWolf
Dear Laura,
yes I do stand up to evil when necessary, and I have been to hospital
because of it; but I won, dammit. Also, my wish to be ready to stand
up to evil if necessary---in this case a very specific evil, to be sure---
was the reason why I, like some 90.000 other male and some female
Swedish citizens, for twelve years kept a fully automatic assault rifle
and ammo in my home, with the rest of my combar gear. Also, why
I sacrificed much of my free time and endured quite a lot of discomfort.
It was simply worth doing.
And, no, there's not a lot of shooting in the streets, really. People who
show signs of incipient or full-blown Ramboism or Schwarzeneggerosis
are quitly told to go play marbles somewhere else. We know that in
a 'live-ammo' situation, they would be pretty useless anyway.
Dear Coyote,
your posting moved me deeply. Enough said. You come over as a
decent, thinking and feeling bloke, which I deeply appreciate. (And
I agree, he's articulate too!) I am glad that you have been able to
carve out a life for yourself nevertheless, and if you also have won
peace of a kind, well, then may the Power be with you.
TWolf
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:06:48 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <199605301803.UAA01844@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Friends,
It seems that rape has very little to do with sex. The rapist wants power;
power to bolster his own self-image (for he is at heart convinced that he
is weak and endangered, and he is right) and power in order to exact
service and keep others in slavery. For this, he uses his penis as a weapon.
This is satisfying to him, not because he comes, but because this is a
specifically *male* weapon, and he can of course assert superiority only
by pointing to something he has done nothing to deserve---like being
male, or white, or born into this or that ethnic group---because he has
never *don*e anything to deserve respect, let alone power. He knows that
winning genuine respect is beyond him.
And it usually has little to do with anger either. It is mostly done in cold
blood.
So take that weapon away---OK, he will miss it, but there are other
weapons available---like guns, knives, broken bottles etc etc. What are
you going to do, cut off his hands too? Or his head?
Yes, David and Catherine, even common criminals despise and hate
rapists, woman-beaters and child molesters. Just lock them up.
Also, the risk of miscarriages of justice is very real. We had a case a
couple of years ago in a coastal village in Norway, where there was an
outbreak of real witch hysteria, the entire staff of a day-care center
being accused of being child-molesters. Finally, it transpired that the
whole thing had been whipped up by psychoterapeuts using suggestion,
leading questions etc on children, exactly as happened during the
17th C witchhunts (we had some in Sweden too; they are extremely well
documented so we can se what happend, but finally common sense
prevailed and the thing was stamped out). I think that psychoterapeuts
should be locked up---they are dangerous to people's lives!
TWolf
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:35:11 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960530193511.006a35ec@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 23:52 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
How about a 'scarlett' L tattooed on their foreheads? ; )
Excuse my ignorance, but why 'L' and why scarlett.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:35:27 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960530193527.006b3520@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:37 30/05/96 -0700, Laura wrote some very positive words of
encouragement for the good guys and:
I just wish the good guys would thump some serious Neanderthal butt!
That's what your extra male strength and vigor is for!
That's my only complaint with the good guys...they are too complacent.
The trouble is Non-Neanderthal types are not into butt-kicking or thunping.
How do you breed a race of men selectively so that they have the desire to
go around kicking butt, but only the right butts?
Perhaps by only giving sexual privileges to those men that do? In the end
genetics would take care of it, but it would need women to be empowered first.
A bit of a chicken and egg situation.
I am a coward. This is something I have recognised about myself since I was
bullied at school. It is also something I had to overcome a couple of times
to put a stop to the bullying. But schools and mothers and fathers teach (or
taught when I was young) boys to stand up and fight.
But nevertheless I am a passive butt-kicker. Because I'm a coward, or
Non-Neanderthal I only kick-butt when my back (or that of a loved one) is
against the wall.
Like yer cock-privileges do ya? You didn't earn 'em, you won't fight
*for* them, you don't deserve 'em! Did
you see the enemy and run, like a coward?
I'm not sure what is meant here. Obviously not that we should be aggressive
and fight for sex. But what positive suggestion is being made?
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:56:48 +0200
From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter?
Message-Id: <199605302056.WAA22389@croco.atnet.at
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I, for one, don't think it really matters, as long as the topics are
informative
and interesting and work towards women being empowered/powerful. There
are men out there that wish they were women for many reasons,
and if there is a man on this group that feels strongly enough about
wanting
to be a women (transgender, etc.), and wants to write as a women, then
let's
not downgrade that person for it. Women do have a lot of power: we bear
children, we bear pain and cold easier, we are stronger emotionally and
can
communicate better... We have much that men envy and for someone to ask
if a person is 'really a woman' has little to do with that.
I exclusively date men that are very feminine and wish that they were
women...
they are sweet, submissive, and believe that they should have been born
women. They envy the power that we have, the abilities that we have, the
bodies that we have.
Isn't it enough that we have this wonderful support system here, where we
are trying to empower a group that has been disempowered traditionally
for
many years, that we should try to disempower someone who may or may not
be a woman, but may wish it to be so. I'm not saying anyone is a man or
woman, just that we should not assume that because someone 'appears' to
be a man writing as a woman, that this is so. Or vice versa. I hope
that
we can all empower one another and come from a position of power and
strength in knowing that women are powerful and we cannot afford to
alienate anyone who has that same belief and is willing to support that
belief.
Okay--I'm off my soapbox now... ; )
Jet
I want to thank you for that comment, Jet.
and I will take your comment to ask you and of course every other Wo-Man on
this list a little question:
A few weeks ago I read an article about dressing (young) boys in skirts.
The author sees this as an educational thing to teach them appreciance of
feminity.
Although I somehow loved this idea I suddenly wasnt sure wether this really
is right or wrong.The article was more written from her side, how lovely
the boys look and so on.
I do not have kids so I cannot say if I really would do that.
What do you think about this?
I am sure the boys look nice but how do they feel?
I grew up in a very feminine environment but I never was FORCED to wear
skirts. I did it by my own and enjoyed it as a game, as an excitement.
Bernd
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #81
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 82
Today's Topics:
Re: Gender/Languages
Re: Hilary-a second child
Re: Does it Matter? (was Let Clear Some Stuff Up)
Re: Does it Matter?
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Psychotherapists and sexual abuse.
Knowing a date rapist when you see one.
How about this idea?
Apology to Patricia.
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: Apology to Patricia.
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: The Only Safe Home for a WOMEN is a HOME SHE Rules.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:56:45 +0200
From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Gender/Languages
Message-Id: <199605302056.WAA22387@croco.atnet.at
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Jet
That maybe allows people to think a little more about their environment,
old cultures and history and the fact that there are at least two
genders
on this planet.
I agree with this. People go through life in a mindless muddle, never
really
thinking about the words they use, much less if there are two (or
more--let's
not forget the hermaphrodites or transgenders) genders. If more people
were mindful, I don't think these issues would be understood in the same
way. What do you think?
Yes, knowing about things changes the behavior. Think about, it talk about
it.Many people do not think about their environment, they just live because
they live. I can understand
this. Doubting, re-asking your believes is a hard thing.It mostly causes
you, like written in your signature, to really change your environment, to
loose friends and so on. To be open means that you are vulnerable and if
you are, you will be hurted some day in some way. People ,generally dont
like this. As long as women were quiet for example, there was no need to
think about this. World just happened.War jaust happened.
But fortunatly women are very intellegent and since allowed to talk, think
and learn, new aspects about society arose and many people now KNOW that
there is more behind feminity than just submissiveness and weakness.
This should and will find an expression in our languages and cultures.
And for me personally womens liberation brought me a new, more colored view
about creation and god(dess),society and Womankind.
But of course on the other hand WoMankind is a very complex thing, there
is
no strict border between women and men, they are somehow different but
somehow they arent.
Except that WoMankind is superior... : P
Yes dear Jet, womankind is suprior,feminity is suprior and hopefully we are
a growing group of knowing people who decide not to ignore this. Since
almost ten years I am aware of womens liberation and loved to follow their
views and oppinions. And it is great to see that on this list more and more
women write and think.
Using neutral terms make people to objects, it reduces them to their
function, what maybe is good in the case of politicans and most other
public positions.
Yes, I would also agree with that and women in particular, have been used
and seen as objects for far too long.
But it is also beautiful to see and enjoy the differences.
If the differences were not there, there would not be the problems...we'd
all be one gender and that would be BORING, no?
A year ago or two a very short message run through the papers: Somewhere
in
Switzerland in a little town or village their government decided to only
use the feminine terms for their politicans.It was accepted by the
(male)
majority and so this town or village suddenly became a womens town. :)
I have never heard anything about this since then and I dont know what
town
it was, or if it true. So maybe some of our european people on this list
know anything about this?????????
An interesting experience, isnt it?
I think this is very interesting! I would also like to know if anyone of
you has
more information on this. It seems so Amazonian, especially in Europe.
Yes it is an exciting idea to turn it upside down, even if it is just a
mindgame or an experiment ..I like it. :=)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:08:16 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary-a second child
Message-ID: <31AE1C50.7873@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jet wrote:
What a wonderful gimmick for Bill to get re-elected!
Q.: What do you get when you cross a crooked lawyer with a crooked politician?
A.: Chelsea
andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:14:32 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter? (was Let Clear Some Stuff Up)
Message-ID: <31AE1DC8.435C@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
bodie167@houston.email.net wrote:
On whether Tracey is "really a woman," or not, I agree: What matters?
And also, why doesn't anyone ever ask if Magnus, or Andrew, . . or I, am
really a WOMAN? Ever think of that?
bodie
I am only a Woman to the extent that my Mistress dresses me as one. And to the
extent that She permits me the honor of doing "wmoan's work" in Her home.
Otherwise, I am, humbly but unavoidably, male. But thanks for asking.
andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:16:21 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter?
Message-ID: <31AE4865.FD6@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To a Scottish woman like myself there is nothing more sexy than a man in
a kilt..blowing in a bag and making music. No slouches them scottish
men.
Patricia
Bernd wrote:
I, for one, don't think it really matters, as long as the topics are
informative
and interesting and work towards women being empowered/powerful. There
are men out there that wish they were women for many reasons,
and if there is a man on this group that feels strongly enough about
wanting
to be a women (transgender, etc.), and wants to write as a women, then
let's
not downgrade that person for it. Women do have a lot of power: we bear
children, we bear pain and cold easier, we are stronger emotionally and
can
communicate better... We have much that men envy and for someone to ask
if a person is 'really a woman' has little to do with that.
I exclusively date men that are very feminine and wish that they were
women...
they are sweet, submissive, and believe that they should have been born
women. They envy the power that we have, the abilities that we have, the
bodies that we have.
Isn't it enough that we have this wonderful support system here, where we
are trying to empower a group that has been disempowered traditionally
for
many years, that we should try to disempower someone who may or may not
be a woman, but may wish it to be so. I'm not saying anyone is a man or
woman, just that we should not assume that because someone 'appears' to
be a man writing as a woman, that this is so. Or vice versa. I hope
that
we can all empower one another and come from a position of power and
strength in knowing that women are powerful and we cannot afford to
alienate anyone who has that same belief and is willing to support that
belief.
Okay--I'm off my soapbox now... ; )
Jet
I want to thank you for that comment, Jet.
and I will take your comment to ask you and of course every other Wo-Man on
this list a little question:
A few weeks ago I read an article about dressing (young) boys in skirts.
The author sees this as an educational thing to teach them appreciance of
feminity.
Although I somehow loved this idea I suddenly wasnt sure wether this really
is right or wrong.The article was more written from her side, how lovely
the boys look and so on.
I do not have kids so I cannot say if I really would do that.
What do you think about this?
I am sure the boys look nice but how do they feel?
I grew up in a very feminine environment but I never was FORCED to wear
skirts. I did it by my own and enjoyed it as a game, as an excitement.
Bernd
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:01:05 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531000105.006767d8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:
Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?
I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.
Despite being into cruel punishment for male disobedience to women, I've
never really thought that punishment should be cruel. I'm not even sure
punishment should exist at all for Women, Men or Children.
Rather some way to (re-)educate the ignorant, deter the weak willed,
and treat the sick.
I rather think that apart from date-rape, the rapists we've been discussing
fall into the latter category, the sick.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:01:08 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531000108.00670810@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 20:06 30/05/96 +0100, Twolf wrote:
Yes, David and Catherine.
Apart from the fact that Christine's name isn't Catherine I find myself in
complete agreement with Twolf and I feel his analysis of the rapists
motivation rings true.
There have been similar cases of such 'anti-black magic' media hullabaloo in
England. From afar here in Portugal it seems that they too were whipped up
out of thin air by (well meaning) social workers.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:11:03 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605302311.QAA19607@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm sure a
great number have undiagnosed/untreated medical conditions which effect
their judgement, some of which are genetic, some of which might be
blamed on the toxic assault of our polluted environment, some which are
acquired through injury (blow to the head) or disease, or addiction
(example: alcoholism kills brain cells).
This could be very true...A male friend of mine in Leavenworth, WA, was a
kind and gentle man until he was struck by lightening. After that, every
little thing disturbed him and he had become another person: violent,
short-tempered, unable to control even the littlest frustration from
becoming a major issue, started drinking heavily and abusing drugs...
like I said, he became a totally different person.
Alcohol and drugs are a bit different. They make people less inhibited
(along with destroying brain cells), so maybe they are more able to
abuse when under the influence because of that. How many times have
we heard people say that when someone is drinking they are abusive
and obnoxious--a mean drunk, I think the term is. While others became
very passive when drunk.
Some aggressive behaviors, certainly a certain degree of aggression, is
hormone controlled. Castration might be a humane solution for some. I
would red-flag cases where the male became noticeably more violent
(beyond normal, healthy aggression) at the onset of puberty. If it's a
life-long problem, or arose later in life, another solution might be
better.
You mean like Testosterone poisoning? I agree, that we must look
at someone's whole life before we can come to any real conclusions.
EVERY WOMAN'S HOUSE SHOULD BE A SAFE HOUSE. <--I want the
bumpersticker.
If you get any made, let me know...I'll buy at least 2...one for me and
one for a friend.
Society begins at home, and also goes there at the end of the day. the
personal is political, the political is personal...one reflects the
other. I will have no distorted, fun-house mirror at my house where
men can see themselves reflected at twice their natural size... and I
don't need to see myself that way either (although it is amusing and
educational to know what that's like).
Laura, I agree with you. That's why I'm raising my daughter in the
way that I am. Empowered and strong, healthy and happy, compassionate
and evironmentally conscious, intelligent and a lot of common sense.
I hope it 'takes.' ; )
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther
Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:03:50 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-ID: <31AE5386.57A0@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date rapers are worse...they not only make you feel vulnerable on the
streets and at home...they make you question your own instincts...women
ask..why did I not know he was a rapist.
patricia
Christine & David Stevenson wrote:
At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:
Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?
I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.
Despite being into cruel punishment for male disobedience to women, I've
never really thought that punishment should be cruel. I'm not even sure
punishment should exist at all for Women, Men or Children.
Rather some way to (re-)educate the ignorant, deter the weak willed,
and treat the sick.
I rather think that apart from date-rape, the rapists we've been discussing
fall into the latter category, the sick.
David Stevenson.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 01:52:54 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Psychotherapists and sexual abuse.
Message-Id: <199605302351.BAA20579@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 30 May 1996 20:06:48 +0100, timberwolf@bahnhof.se wrote:
being accused of being child-molesters. Finally, it transpired that the
whole thing had been whipped up by psychoterapeuts using suggestion,
leading questions etc on children, exactly as happened during the
17th C witchhunts (we had some in Sweden too; they are extremely well
documented so we can se what happend, but finally common sense
prevailed and the thing was stamped out). I think that psychoterapeuts
should be locked up---they are dangerous to people's lives!
They have a lot of power, and some obviously don't exercise that power
very well.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 02:07:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Knowing a date rapist when you see one.
Message-Id: <199605310006.CAA22151@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It wouldn't surprise me if there are signs to look for. Kind of like
the FBI has profiles of serial killers, where some traits are common to
many of them. I won't pretend to know anything about what to look for
though.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:04:29 +1200
From: Oliver Stone
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: How about this idea?
Message-ID: <7023041231051996/A01979/DALEK/11A5FB041700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5FB041700
Why should MAN be a term for "Male"?
Why can't it mean unisex?
See, then we could have woMAN, heMAN (for male) and all the words that are
associated with MAN would then make sense and women wouldn't still have that
dominated feeling.
Personally I hate the Adam and Eve story. When woman was created it was in
such a subservient way. Have any of you heard of Lilith? Apparently she was
the woman before Eve. Lilith was made the same way as Adam, with dirt and
dust. And she wanted equal rights with Adam. Lilith also refused to use the
missionary position claiming that she also had the right to be on top. Adam
seeked God's help to tame Lilith and to make her bow to him. When Lilith heard
this she fled Eden and formed her own band of followers. And so-called "evil"
was born. Stories were spread about Lilith about how she consumes newborns and
spawned demons. And all because she wanted equality. And Adam got to make his
own woman from his rib so he would be her "ruler". Crikey, I hate that part.
In Maori folklore, female entities are equal to their male counterparts. The
earth being female (Papa) and the sky being male (Rangi). And the first mortal
was a woman, made from gifts given by Papa and Rangi. My tribal affliations
are also both male and female. Women are treated with respect and are just as
likely to become chiefs of their tribes. Women were even able to fight with
the men in combat if they chose.
Do you think this male dominance thing comes from a culture? It's a can of
worms, I know, but if Maori ruled the world, it would be a world of gender
equality.
Tracey
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 02:09:45 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Apology to Patricia.
Message-Id: <199605310008.CAA22401@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I would like to apologize to you in public for 'getting on your case'.
That was never my intention, and looking back I can see that I should've
trodden a more lightly. Once again, I'm sorry.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:24:48 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310024.RAA28417@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Patricia--
Maybe that the difference between women having guns and men having guns.
Men seem to see the gun as the object of wonder, they almost worship
them.
Could this because it's a phallic symbol?
Women see the gun as an object of utility, to be put up with, if
they want to live another day to see the sunset which is to them an
object of wonder.
An object that provides safety and security...
Women make homes...I mean not just in houses but everywhere they go.
you see a woman bring flowers for her desk and the whole office lights
up. She wears a power suit with a silk camisile underneath. We who are
in political life would like to make the world a home where everyones
children were safe, there was food and shelter and medical for everyone.
This is wonderful and I think very true.
If I had my druthers I would opt for a world where women and children
could dance naked in the streets at any hour of the day or night and no
harm would ever come to them from any man. But until we get there...I
will live.
I agree with this also. I will not let the violence and fear win...
Jet
PS: I really enjoy your posts, Patricia.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther
Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:23:25 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-ID: <31AE662D.1CD7@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I really enjoy yours too, Jet
Patricia
Jet
PS: I really enjoy your posts, Patricia.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:21:57 -0700
From: Noble
To:
CC: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Apology to Patricia.
Message-ID: <31AE65D5.6AA3@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Apology accepted..
Patricia
Magnus Thelander wrote:
I would like to apologize to you in public for 'getting on your case'.
That was never my intention, and looking back I can see that I should've
trodden a more lightly. Once again, I'm sorry.
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:38:11 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:
Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?
I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.
We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:05:41 -0700
From: edjo@sprynet.com
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Only Safe Home for a WOMEN is a HOME SHE Rules.
Message-Id: <199605310105.SAA13569@m3.sprynet.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 29 May 1996 23:26:28 -0700, Noble wrote:
The only safe home for a woman is a home she RULES!
where all men know there place and respect, adore and honor her rule.
In a home you ruled, would the men be allowed to express their
opinions, or would you expect them to limit their vocabulary to 'yes'?
Note: This is *no* criticism. If this is the way you want it, it's your
prerogative. I'm just curious.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
In my Leaders home She rules and i know were my place is. i don't work
and my duties are doing all the housework,cooking,shopping,laundry,preparing all
meals,and any home repairs or yardwork that needs to be done.She has a duties
list of things for me to preform,any back talk and all HELL breaks loose.
We have been together for eleven years and i let her win all battles,after
all She is fourteen years older than me and bigger and stronger i think. Time
To start supper.
eddie
My Leader will probley write later
<---- End Forwarded Message ----
<---- End Forwarded Message ----
<---- End Forwarded Message ----
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #82
***********************************************
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 83
Today's Topics:
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Bit o' news
scarlett L
apology for repeated messages
Prisoners rights.
barn boss
Until that happens.
Sexual frustration / Anger
Re: castration
Re: castration
unsuscribe
Re: Castration
Re: Bit o' news
Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Living with ADD
Re: castration
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:08:41 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605310208.TAA11145@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What I'm getting at is perhaps we should first bear in mind what most of
these men do suffer after they've been convicted.
I'm sorry if I sound callous, but what goes around, comes around. What
terrible things he did to those women... ;`( I have no sympathy nor
empathy for this type of person, either. What a heartless way to
treat two human beings!
Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?
My way of looking at criminals is this: They had no consideration for
the people they committed the crimes against, I don't believe that we
should show consideration for them once they have been found guilty
of those crimes. Should we give criminals all the same rights that we have
out here, inside prison? I thought prison was a place without rights
for people who violated others' rights.
By the way, Bernardo's wife, who was actively involved in his crimes, was
given 12 years because she testified against him. She is eligible for day
parole as early as next year.
Does anyone ever wonder what she will do once she is released, if they
parole her? Will she go out and do more of the same, or is she really
rehabilitated? Will she go out and find another man with the same
tendencies as her husband and go out on another 'spree?'
The question posed here does make a person dig deep within herself/
himself to try to find the answer. Is there an answer?
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther
Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:42:53 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bit o' news
Message-Id: <199605310142.SAA17862@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com
Michael wrote:
I too have been experiencing the same sort of symptoms. What sort of
treatment is available? (I also have a slight case of hypertension.)
I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.
I had a scare tonight...the meds I'm trying caused a terrifying side
effect...stong heart palpitations, dizziness...when my left arm went
numb my hubby rushed me to the ER, lest I be having a heart attack. I
have to change meds, for sure. :( I was taking Cylert, but now I'll
try something else.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:24 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: scarlett L
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033524.00665560@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 23:52 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
How about a 'scarlett' L tattooed on their foreheads? ; )
Excuse my ignorance, but why 'L' and why scarlett.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:41:01 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: apology for repeated messages
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531034101.00675728@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I sent a bunch of messages earlier in the day, and when they didn't bounce
back into my in tray in the normal way I repeated them all thinking they had
got lost somewhere. As the repeats were going out moments ago I saw the
first of my messages coming back.
Sorry If your in trays are cluttered!
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 04:00:46 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531040046.00673b80@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 19:08 30/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
My way of looking at criminals is this: They had no consideration for
the people they committed the crimes against, I don't believe that we
should show consideration for them once they have been found guilty
of those crimes. Should we give criminals all the same rights that we have
out here, inside prison? I thought prison was a place without rights
for people who violated others' rights.
I think prisoners should have rights too.
Someone once said that you can judge a society by the way it treats it's
prisoners.
I think we should show consideration for everyone. It is sometimes hard to
be considerate towards the inconsiderate, but we must lead by example.
Clearly prisoners should not have the same rights. But excrement in their
food for example is a breach of standards which is unacceptable, whatever
the crime.
JustMHO
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:35 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: barn boss
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033535.0067eac4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:02 29/05/96 -0700, morte@interlog.com wrote:
D'you mean the barn boss?
Perhaps. I don't know what a barn boss is? Excuse my ignorance. King-pin was
my own phrase used to express a long distant, but realtively fresh memory.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:29 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Until that happens.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033529.00674580@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 20:38 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:
We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?
Encourage everyone to read 'Families and How to Survive them' by John Cleese
and his analyst as a first step in beginning to understand all the
influences that went to make you who you are. (By the way the book is
negative about Kinkiness, but I'm big enough to know they are wrong on that
score without dismissing the whole book).
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:21 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sexual frustration / Anger
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033521.0067e4f8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 23:41 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
I don't think of it as cruel or unusual. As for the crime and why
they do it, I don't think castration would work because rape is an act of
anger, to hurt and humiliate women. It would not cure the anger
problem or explain why they do this vile thing. Of course, no one wants
to have a child conceived from an act of rape, so castration would stop
that. It would make men more docile, but what about the anger that
caused the behavior in the first place?
I've heard the anger and not sexual desire theory before. But I have to
admit that I wonder how true it is.
Would it be more true to suggest that the anger stems from unfulfilled
desire. Plain sexual frustration boiled over into a need to hurt the persons
they feel are responsible for this unhappy state? (not that I'm saying women
are responsible for it, just that these men unreasonably feel this to be the
case).
Are there any figures on the co-relation between the liberalisation of
society and the legalisation of pornography and/or prostitution and a
subsequent reduction in sex crimes?
I seem to remember unsubstantiated stories back in the sixties and seventies
that in Sweden such liberalisation resulted in a drop in such crimes?
I think I could say with regard to the possibility of being a rapist. 'There
but for the grace of Goddess go I'.
I hope I'm not going to be wildly misunderstood here.
I think I hinted at this issue in our first introductory posting. I have
written at greater length on the subject but I'll try and briefly summarise.
I choose to believe, (quite wrongly of course) that women are
'prickteasers'. I therefore can blame them for my constantly rampant and
randy state. Rather than going out and raping them, I turn myself into a
wimp and submit to them. Placing myself at their mercy. Of course I can do
this because I am capable of seeing that my beliefs are my own invention for
my own sexual fantasies to work. But the true rapist is perhaps not as
capable of self analysis and understanding.
Dennis the elder suggested that such self analysis was not necessary. I
simply advocate that it helps to understand the human condition, and other men.
It is how we use the results of such analysis that could make the difference.
In the meantime I agree with Dennis. Enjoy it as well!
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:36:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ronald Forster
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
This is not intended as a flame but for my records -- do you have a
source for "a woman is raped every 16 seconds here in America"?
Thanks
Forster
On Wed, 29 May 1996, Noble wrote:
o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.
patricia
same thing to men. What they are doing is
picking up men in lounges, etc., getting them aroused and ready for
anything, then raping them with dildos, or whatever, in a way to express
their anger for having been raped by a man. I do not condone this in
I would think that this would get *them* into trouble with police?
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:39:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-ID: <31AE943E.1DC1@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
F.B.I Crime Statistics...
Patricia
Ronald Forster wrote:
This is not intended as a flame but for my records -- do you have a
source for "a woman is raped every 16 seconds here in America"?
Thanks
Forster
On Wed, 29 May 1996, Noble wrote:
o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.
patricia
same thing to men. What they are doing is
picking up men in lounges, etc., getting them aroused and ready for
anything, then raping them with dildos, or whatever, in a way to express
their anger for having been raped by a man. I do not condone this in
I would think that this would get *them* into trouble with police?
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:17:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tasha@shadow.net (Tasha Star)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsuscribe
Message-Id: <199605310417.AAA13279@anshar.shadow.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not quitting, just changing it to a diff account.
The mail program on this account can't handle the current traffic on this list.
I'll continue to read, and I'll save poor old Eudora from crashing.
Tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
** New GIFs on my website **
!! Take a second look, it's changed !!
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 **number change**
After hours of begging, Southern Bell talked me into
yet ANOTHER phone line, (that makes 5)
Starting tuesday, May 28, the new contact
number will be *******305-819-8111*******
Please update your records.
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:05:40 -0700
From: White Holes
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-ID: <31AE9A44.22F6@interlog.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Christine & David Stevenson & Alfed Jarry wrote:
At 23:41 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
I don't think of it as cruel or unusual. As for the crime and why
they do it, I don't think castration would work because rape is an act of
anger, to hurt and humiliate women. It would not cure the anger
problem or explain why they do this vile thing. Of course, no one wants
to have a child conceived from an act of rape, so castration would stop
that. It would make men more docile, but what about the anger that
caused the behavior in the first place?
I've heard the anger and not sexual desire theory before. But I have to
admit that I wonder how true it is.
Would it be more true to suggest that the anger stems from unfulfilled
desire. Plain sexual frustration boiled over into a need to hurt the persons
they feel are responsible for this unhappy state? (not that I'm saying women
are responsible for it, just that they unreasonably feel this to be the case).
You mean the repressive-oppressive model.
The dissolution of the universal generative Referent that grounds her
life to the phallocentric hierarchy, Desire is not bolstered by needs,
but rather the contrary; they are counterproducts within the real she
produces.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:31:45 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bit o' news
Message-ID: <960531003145_124506291@emout07.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-05-30 13:09:07 EDT, you write:
I *do* talk too fast: people have complained to me about that a lot.
It's even too fast for me sometimes, which is why I sometimes ststutter
(the rereal rereason for the lalaura nick, BTW). :)
I used to stutter too, cause my brain seems to get ahead of my mouth and I
talk too fast to try and keep up. I don't stutter as bad as I used to
though... It's sorta rare now.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nina Elfman
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I would like to remind the subbie guys on the list that their sexual
feelings are better expressed in a different forum. This entire sub-thread
where Andrew begins deluging us with his sexual fantasies of slavery to a
femdom seems inappropriate for the list as a whole judging from what I
have been reading since I subscribed. I haven't read the list's faq yet
so I may be in eror. But his comments do bother me. Perhaps only because
I feel like the addressee of his letter did, that he is trying to force
something in my face that I did not ask for and do not welcome. On the
other hand I wouldn't mind reading a nicely worded imaginativly written
fantasy from the domme or sub perspective. I would feel that something
like that was "offered" for my entertainment rather than forced upon me
as was this blatant------
"notice me love me take me under your wing" plea(and his self-description
of it as "pitiful whimperings" is quite accurate_
since you recognize it as such andrew now you know to find another
way to express those feelings
. We are not telling you not to have those
feelings-just find a better less offensive way/different forum for
them)
. And if this *is* the only way Andrew knows how to express
himself Andrew would be well advised to seek a forum where
his writings would be better accepted such as: alt.sex.personals.(bondage
etc.)
Well, I'm wrong again. I insist and I request without permission.
I am a rapist,
then, for I am imposing myself, even in my pitiful whimperings for
acceptance as
the slave I yearn to be. I must learn to be less obtrusive. My deepest
apologies.
Silently in the corner, forehead to the floor,
andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310543.WAA20523@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1061
I want to thank all of you who read, and the several of you
who took the time to make your very helpful posts on this thread.
I wasn't trying to lay my bad night on any of you, but certainly
needed the reality check(s), both public and private.
I may try to make some individual resposnes over the next
several days, but in the meantime will sum up with this:
Laura saw past my fears to write:
Aww, I think *somebody* needs a hug!
:::hugging coyote:::
|)
::: relaxing, feeling safe and happily accepting/returning hug :::
Peel me a grape, willya, coyote? ;)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199605310654.XAA29616@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3356
ADD is not even a little bit funny until one has dealt with it.
About 3 years ago I began to be overwhelmed by 'distractions' that at
least mimicked ADD, enough to make me ask for help from my MD and the
ADD forum on Compuserve, which led me to the NG cited below.
I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.
Laura continued:
I had a scare tonight...the meds I'm trying caused a terrifying side
effect...stong heart palpitations, dizziness...when my left arm went
numb my hubby rushed me to the ER, lest I be having a heart attack. I
have to change meds, for sure. :( I was taking Cylert, but now I'll
try something else.
+Please+ be careful out there with those meds!
When I first started looking around, Ritalin was the standard,
but it too can have really scary side-effects. Because of my
checkered past, I really have to stay committed to life without
any mood-altering stuff at all (except for thhe tea and cookies
you promised us).
So here's what I do now, and it seems to help- not cure, not
fix, but help. None of this is exactly rocket science, but a special
effort needs to be made all the same:
1. Take time out get quiet (meditation in my case, could be yoga
or similar). For me, about 20 to 40 minutes twice a day when I'm
being good,
2. Simplify my surroundings and stimuli, and do only one thing
at a time. Don't read when I eat, don't eat when I'm writing,
turn off the TV most of the time, don't read in bed. Kill clutter
(which I know sounds utopian, but try), kill input. TV generally
is bad, and so -sorry to say- is this medium. Cut back on time online
(said the pot to the kettle). Cut or consolidate unnecessary
commitments: keep the ones where you can really have some impact and
are good for the soul.
3. Get physical (combined with 1., above): Work out (without a
walkman or a video or aerobic music), just walk a lot, cook (if
you like cooking), and my fave: garden, work with plants. One
guy I know does needlepoint. Another lady knits. Mind-meld with
the cat, child, spouse, lover, etc., but don't overdo it.
There are other little tricks: drink tons of water, eat bananas
(potassium), etc that you can pick up to see if they work or not.
How cool for me -a single man living alone- that I can do all
these beautiful things. A woman with commitments, family,
involvement, etc may have more of a challenge. The nice thing-
the one really nice thing about ADD, some have told me- is
that the urgency of the diagnosis gives one =permission= to at
last get rid of some old baggage and lighten the load.
Save the world, yes, but only the parts you can touch.
Get quiet, shed some stuff, get physical and watch how much
more you get done. I think,,, ;]
And keep telling us about it, please
Have a care as you go,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-Id: <199605310709.AAA06297@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Noble wrote:
o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.
The problem is that the female rape victims who go out and rape men in
return are hurting themselves as well as the men. That kind of anger
isn't healthy, and consumes the soul. They're really continuing to
victimise themselves as they go out and victimise others. And, what
if the man they victimise was a wonderful guy, who had never hurt a
woman, etc.? What if she turns him into a misogynist?
This also comes back to the fact that just because one person was
victimised, that doesn't give them the right to turn around and
victimise someone else. That just continues the cycle of abuse.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 84
Today's Topics:
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: How to change society
Re: Castration
How I got named
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Prisoners rights.
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Prisoners rights.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310728.AAA06732@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Coyote Sings wrote:
How can women stand men? How can you have anything to with us?
How can you bear to look at us, let alone touch us?
I grew up in a fairly small city, as cities go. The more people I get
to know, the more I value how "boring" my youth was. I was not
physically abused. I was not emotionally abused. I was not sexually
abused. My parents supported me in whatever I wanted to do and be
(though my mother wouldn't let me have a pickup truck :), though maybe
my dad pushed a bit hard at times, being a believer in "tough love."
I didn't date in high school, partially because growing up in Florida
means growing up to an extent in a beach culture, where being able to
wear a bikini is more important than in other parts of the US. I
remember a friend trying to fix me up with a particular guy, his
apparant answer was, "Maybe if she'd lose some weight." I wasn't even
that horribly overweight, really. Though, to be honest, I've often
thought if my female friend who told me this had had more tact, she
wouldn't have told me. :)
However, all of my life I've had more male friends than female
friends. Though my mother didn't use the word "tomboy" for me, that's
in essence what I was. I didn't understand the southern belle
cotillion (dance and manners "club", not sure about the spelling)
thing, or easter dresses, or things like that. I also grew up in a
neighborhood where my two local female "friends" were rather cruel
people. So, all in all, I grew up trusting guys a bit more than
girls.
When I moved away to go to college in the northeast US, I managed to
find more women I could connect with, but still had a majority of male
friends. I guess I've just always had a way of finding the "nice
guys." However, my first relationship was certainly lacking, 3 years
of somewhat emotional abuse from someone who didn't want a
"commitment" and who loved to hit on my friends in front of me. It
lost me female friends as well as self-esteem. Why stick with him?
He was the first guy I'd had an interest in who'd ever shown an
interest back. However, it fell apart finally because I started
verbally fighting back, and he got too frustrated. Then I went and
found a "nice guy" to date and broke that cycle, having learned a bit
of a lesson. I'm now married to another "nice guy" and have two
wonderful "nice guy" properties.
It weighs heavily on my healer nature as more and more friends (both
women and men) confide in me about sexual abuse, rape, physical abuse,
emotional abuse, etc. It can sometimes be hard to stop suspecting all
men. Especially when I wander around on the Internet and run into a
lot of jerks. However, I try to take some time on occasion to
appreciate what I have, and remember all of the guys I know and have
known who aren't abusers, rapists, or jerks. I will not allow myself
to become convinced that an entire gender is the enemy. That just
makes me one more neurotic, frightened, overstressed member of a
society that needs people with their heads together.
I happen to like men. Or, I should say, men I've gotten to know well
and consider friends. I'm a fairly trusting person, but I do make men
follow certain protocols if they want to get to know me (e.g. start
out in a public setting, etc.) I don't want my basic optimism to turn
into pie in the sky stupidity.
No, I'm not fishing for soothing reassurances, and I already
know the short-term answers: 'We stand men because for a time yet
we must,' or words to that effect.
As I have said to a few folks of late...I'd hate a world without men.
They have equipment particular to their bodies that I rather like
doing painful things to. :) This isn't to punish them for being
men. This is because of who I am, and trust me that the folks I do
these kinds of things to enjoy it (or enjoy doing it for me).
I'm looking for your deeper understanding of the widening (it
seems to me) gulf between us, despite all the recent enlightenment
we seem to enjoy (some of us at least).
There seem to be a lot of organizations who want us all to believe
there is a gender war going on. I vote that we all refuse to
participate. ;) This is a major cause of stress on both sides.
*hugs after reading your own story*
All that said, what I have read the last few days really confirms
a growing feeling that we are about a century too late- that we are
living in a killer culture, that Fear is our currency, and that
we have killed the planet with our greed. I see a bright future for
women if we survive the next century, but not much of anything for
the men we men still are. And I'm an optimist.
If we allow ourselves to believe we are too late, then we give
ourselves permission to stop fighting and hand the world over to the
hate mongers. To me, this is unacceptable.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to change society
Message-Id: <199605310746.AAA07085@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Jet wrote:
Exactly...We need to teach our children, train our men, stand against
the sort of 'abuse encouragement/support' that society/media want
us to overlook or just ignore. How many years did it take before
they started seeing children as having 'rights?' And still, our children
are abused in schools by teachers telling our children that it's okay
for people to bully you, extort money, hurting you--not directly saying
it, but ignoring it.
For teaching our children, a few ideas:
1. Teachers in schools are horribly overloaded. They can barely
keep up with the scholastic aspects of their classes, let alone the
rising number of overly stressed and abused kids. Teachers need
assistance, rather than being blamed as the primary problem.
2. Perhaps in earlier grades requiring _everyone_ to take short
courses of home economics and shop will help to deal with a bit of the
"only girls take that" and "only boys take that." Trying to actually
make both courses interesting to both genders is the challange. If
all of the boys find home economics boring, they will continue to
think of it as girl's stuff. If the girls find shop boring or
overwhelming, they will continue to think of it as boy's stuff or
beyond them.
3. Deal severely with teachers who are proven to have treated one
gender like they can't do something on a repeated basis. I know a
woman who was brilliant at math until in high school she wasn't
allowed to take 2 math courses simultaenously, while some guy with a
worse track record was. After that, she was convinced she couldn't do
math.
4. School sports is a biggie. IMO a lot of male school sports
coaches encourage their players to objectify women. They certainly
encourage them to value testosterone and other macho bull. Though,
this differs between countries. School football, for instance, is
huge in the US. It's not that big in Canada. Canada doesn't have
that US "school spirit" thing going and maybe it's a good thing. You
don't have academic programs being shafted to help the school football
team. Also, women's sports tend to be underfunded compared to men's
sports.
5. Find some way to stop young guys from taking steroids! Great
way to become more aggressive, hostile, and dangerous. Convince them
that not only is it horrible for their bodies, but unnecessary. This
comes back to self image. Guys are being hit more and more by the
same looks bull that women have been slammed with over the years.
It's pushing male teens even faster into going for the steroids so
they won't be scrawny.
6. Self esteem in general is important for both genders. Low
self esteem pushes guys to be bullies, or doormats. It pushes women
to be doormats, or catty. It's driving both genders into eating
disorders, which damages the body for life. There are enough parents
at home telling their kids that they're losers, enough people who
aren't their parents telling their entire generation that they're
losers (as a gen-xer trust me, I understand). Let's find ways to help
teens feel like winners that don't involve violence, drugs, rape,
etc.
*phew* that's it for this list for now. :)
How do we teach the jerk older guys the error of their ways? An
addition to an earlier post is to contribute to proving wrong the
concept of the "white male as victim" that seems to be getting popular
among guys who can't get jobs. They need to understand that no one is
getting jobs. And, IMO severely biased quota systems just contribute
to this problem, and don't benefit anyone in the long term.
I'm home schooling my daughter for the next two or more
years because the school is not showing support in helping to irradicate
these problems. So in home schooling my daughter, I will give her
the standard (reading, math, science, history, english, etc.)
education she needs, but she will also take martial arts, classes
classes on self-esteem, weight training, classes that will help
her understand how to make decisions/the decision making processes,
and all the things that children don't seem to get in school.
Sounds great. :) My main concern with home schooling is making sure
the child learns how to deal with other folks. What kind of exposure
does your daughter have to other kids her age?
Actually, the media is finally showing older women doing things
other than sitting in a rocking chair-they are more vibrant and active.
They are starting to portray healthy young women in their ads,
instead of those stick thin Twiggy skeletons/waifs that have been
around since the 60's. They are showing people eating more healthy
than they have ever before. So the media, can change things. It
takes time and a lot of calling on our part to get those changes to
happen. But the changes can happen.
I was reading somewhere that some ad agency started using women of all
sizes. They've had unbelievable amounts of calls and letters thanking
them for portraying "real women." This should certainly help them
decide to do it more often.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-Id: <199605310757.AAA07329@davinci.renaissoft.com
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Christine & David Stevenson wrote:
Is this a problem for the administrator, or simply a quirk of the net?
[replies going back to a person instead of the list]
This is a "problem" of the person whose mail is going to them instead
of the list. They've set up their mailer to set their "reply-to"
field to themselves. The default in the case of this list is for
replies to go to the list.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: How I got named
Message-Id: <199605310825.BAA08663@netcom2.netcom.com
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After my long unwinding last night, Patricia asked:
Coyote you are so eloquent sometimes, are you Native American?
No, Ma'am, but thank you for putting it that way. :]
I'm native to Arizona and raised there and in New Mexico, rural
enough at times to really partake of all the cultures around
me, both Native and _criollo_, meaning cowboy and Mexican and even a
summer fighting forest fires on an otherwise Mormon crew. whew!
I don't really think a person can pick up Native American ways of
thinking or seeing without being born into it- I've seen a lot of trendy
people try, sooooo hip and spiritual after a week in Taos or Tuscon or
dropping a little peyote- but some NA have been kind to me and my family
over the years, and my brother was accepted by the Hopi/Tewa as a _pahana_
because, as a photographer, he took care never to intrude on -or dine out
on- their mysteries. Mostly he just hung out with them and took it all in.
My own experience has been a little more touristy and superficial, but I have
sat thorugh a few sweats, shared tripe with mangy res' dogs, was pre-topped
by a fierce, brilliant Navajo feminist, seen a _hosteen_ or two die well far
from home in a white man's war, seen a few more die drunk and sad right here
in the big city, and got sober with some of the survivors. My interest in
shamanic practice I got from a Lakota cop and holy man who was teaching my
priest, but I never (yet) got the hang of it, only just enough to really
_yearn_ for the parts I don't know: the curse of the dabbler. I know just
enough about my native neighbors to know I'm fated to be outside them, which
is part of the estrangement I howled about last night.
I need to tell this group about Dawn Woman, but not tonight,,,
An earliest memory is of a starlit winter dawn and hearing the coyotes
howling and yipping (they don't exactly _sing_, really), quite near, not
up the canyon at all, smelling the horses or dogs. Much later in life,
this incident repeated whenever I was near a turning point and needed to
hear,,,something, but never on a cold winter morning, until finally there
was this, written several years ago for my Wise Woman friend, Rainbow
Serpent, because I badly wanted to throw myself at her:
A few weeks ago on a morning [in early December], up just before dawn,
looking down on the lights of Tucson and across to the Santa Catalinas,
the clouds from the storm clearing now, leaving bitter cold and snow on
the heights (seen in fading starlight), bright stars still out, suddenly
from not too far away a joyful pack of coyotes called and sang to me and
gave me their blessing. At first I wanted to go back to the warm inside,
but then realized this was a gift for me, and only me, and had last
happened (an almost identical scene) when I was tiny and lived on the old
ranch at Beaver Creek. It was like my childhood and innocence were being
given back to me, and I felt very empowered and __alive__.
I had let that go in the 3 months or so....
But it's a gift I have to pass on if I want to
keep it, so here: it's yours now, too. - These things really
do just happen, but the fact is that they are there for
anyone who is open to them and will let them happen.
They happen to me about 3 or 4 times a year, when I
let them.
The advice "Let it be" is really a call to vigorous
action: Throw off the blinders and look around you. There's
a lot of energy in that, and in silence.
Well, she would have slapped me for my effrontery right then and
there, just because she could, but she was in Austin, and so instead
she named me Coyote Sings. :)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 04:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605311102.EAA21793@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Wa! Patricia talks about eloquence. She knows. Read what she wrote (here
edited and chopped up a bit- go back and see her post)
You asked why women still even deal with men, I think the answer is
because we are a warm and loving gender. It is in our nature to have
peace.
After all this time, this is finally dawning on me as true,
deep down, gut-level really true. Please keep saying that.
It means that women taking power, however they do it, even if
it isn't always 'nice,' and heavy manners are involved, is at
bottom [no pun] loving and peaceful. Women must know that in
nature 'love' and 'peace' have ancient, almost cellular meanings
that men have forgotten. Or so it seems to me.
We [men] are terrified of chaos, including the chaos of nature,
and so are blind its beauty. For us 'peace' really means 'order'
and 'love' means 'have.' Womens' use of those words seem to be
more about just 'living' or 'living in nature,' and not so
value-loaded. I hope I got that right.
When I say I carry a gun and will kill, it does not give me
great pleasure the idea of killing. It gives me great pleasure in the
being able to survive. If I had my choice I would never hurt another
living thing. I do not even kill bugs. But I did not start the
violence and my life is worth saving.
That about bugs says volumes: they are our our ancestors and our
heirs. Just last night I negotiated a truce between 2 spiders-
they each got opposite corners of the bedroom ceiling.
I'll bet you even have a 'bug cup' somewhere for quick rescues.
Maybe that the difference between women having guns and men having guns.
Men seem to see the gun as the object of wonder, they almost worship
them. Women see the gun as an object of utility, to be put up with, if
they want to live another day to see the sunset which is to them an
object of wonder.
I've seen this when I watch women shoot: once they really accept
a gun for what it is, and can do- overcoming the fantasies laid
on them by the culture- they get to be very cool shots, indeed.
The men go on romancing the thing,,,
In Vietnam the VC crewed weapons -rockets and mortars- were
often 'manned' by young (and not so young) women, who, babies on
their hips at times, had no illusions at all about what the
stakes were: their homes.
Women make homes...I mean not just in houses but everywhere they go.
you see a woman bring flowers for her desk and the whole office lights
up. She wears a power suit with a silk camisile underneath.
You stressed that image when you first started posting, and
it the way it departed from mens' fantasies made me think:
'She's speaking for _herself_, about herself, not about what
I think she should be.' Wow. Home. Womanspace. Virginia Woolf's
'A Room Of Her Own.' In Her Image. Safe place. It got my vote.
Thank You for that.
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:08:29 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Message-ID: <31AEE13D.78D9@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Nina Elfman wrote:
I would like to remind the subbie guys on the list that their sexual
feelings are better expressed in a different forum. This entire sub-thread
where Andrew begins deluging us with his sexual fantasies of slavery to a
femdom seems inappropriate for the list as a whole judging from what I
have been reading since I subscribed. I haven't read the list's faq yet
so I may be in eror. But his comments do bother me. Perhaps only because
I feel like the addressee of his letter did, that he is trying to force
something in my face that I did not ask for and do not welcome. On the
other hand I wouldn't mind reading a nicely worded imaginativly written
fantasy from the domme or sub perspective. I would feel that something
like that was "offered" for my entertainment rather than forced upon me
as was this blatant------
"notice me love me take me under your wing" plea(and his self-description
of it as "pitiful whimperings" is quite accurate_
since you recognize it as such andrew now you know to find another
way to express those feelings
. We are not telling you not to have those
feelings-just find a better less offensive way/different forum for
them)
. And if this *is* the only way Andrew knows how to express
himself Andrew would be well advised to seek a forum where
his writings would be better accepted such as: alt.sex.personals.(bondage
etc.)
Oh my! Well, I certainly don't want to be the object of a flame war, so I won't
engage in a battle over the context of the complaint. Very briefly: It is
entirely possible that some Female subscribers do not actually practice all of the
activities associated with FemDom, such as receiving anal worship from subservient
males. Should Ms. Nina Elfman be in that category, then, based on Her failure to
grasp the gist of my post, I could count two types of tongue-in-cheek that She is
missing out on enjoying. Oh well, I am sure that any blame for the failure to
achieve effective communication is mine, and for that I apologize. Anyway, She
couldn't have been too upset since She was kind enough to "slap me down" and She
must realize how enjoyable that would be for me....
impersonally,
andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:51:48 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <9605310751.S703523840@houston.email.net
Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?
I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.
We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?
Nooo. We DON'T all agree with that. While certainly "getting to the
root causes, blah blah blah" certainly needs to be one tool in the
arsenal to attach ALL crime and anti-social behavior, I'm going to
play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.
The group that is hopeless -- the psychotic, habitual sick criminal
will not be helped by punishment or stopped by punishment. But my
contention is that this segment is tiny compared to the criminal type
described above. While I don't want to see draconian measures anymore
than other people, we have to face the fact that we are animals --
mostly the males I speak of -- and will try to get away with whatever
we can get away with. Hence, the need for effective detterents will
always be necessary. .
Thanks for your ears and eyes, bodie
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:00:07 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <9605310800.S703550688@houston.email.net
I think prisoners should have rights too.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 15:44:23 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605311343.PAA10699@mailbox.swip.net
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On Fri, 31 May 1996 07:51:48 CDT, bodie167@houston.email.net wrote:
play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.
In my opinion you are making some quite serious statements here. Can
you cite a source?
Don't forget: Once a criminal has passed the line, and commited crimes
for which he's certain to be sentenced to death, he no longer has any
reason to spare anyone. He's desparate, and may as well kill anyone he
happens to meet for kicks. This is not the kind of criminal I would want
society to *create*.
According to the news media there have also been several miscarriages
of justice, where people, perhaps not innocent, but not guilty of a crime
punishable by death either, have been put to death.
I cannot condone state sanctioned murder.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:07:11 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <199605311407.HAA16822@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
David, I certainly agree with you that prisoners should have basic
rights assured. Mercy should always temper justice. Loss of liberty
is a serious punishment, and should be enough to satisfy society.
Prison life need not be luxurious, but should not be a nightmarish
hell-hole either. I think prison should be run like a monastary, where
meditation, peaceful employment, and the pursuit of refinement should
fill their days. They should live simply, but healthfully, and a
positive and nurturing emotional climate should be cultivated.
Discipline should include positive rewards for good behavior. In cases
where imprisonment seems too severe, community service and/or fines
(payments to the victims) should be enough.
I believe all violent and anti-social criminals should be required to
be psychologically and physically well-evaluated the first time they
are caught committing a crime...certainly before they are released from
prison. Appropriate treatment for health problems should be a
condition for parole.
I feel in cases where brain disfunction or other health problem exists,
the person should be considered impaired and that should be considered
a mitigating factor. In other cases, a person is driven by the
desperation of poverty, which I feel should also be considered a
mitigating factor. There are things which the criminal can't control
themselves; they need society's help, and with society's help should be
allowed to win forgiveness.
Even in the more humane future the possibility of abuse of prisoners
exists. When a person is controlled, they are vunerable to whomever
controls them. In the case of crimes of conscious, for example, when a
group reasonably bands together and goes against society because of a
difference of opinion, the temptation of the dominant, established
faction would be to label them all crazy, and might very benevolently
dope them up to the gills to keep them docile. This is a real danger.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #84
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 85
Today's Topics:
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Living with ADD
Our own spiritual path (Re: How I got named)
Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Re: Babboons and Seals
Re: Castration
Hilary-a second child
screw ewe androol
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: screw ewe androol
Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Primal justice. (Was: Re: Castration)
Re: Prisoners rights.
Re: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
SUP New Approach to Gender Issues
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:17:18 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My Precious Mistress Lady Jet wrote:
The question posed here does make a person dig deep within herself/
himself to try to find the answer. Is there an answer?
Bodie wrote:
Nooo. We DON'T all agree with that. While certainly "getting to the
root causes, blah blah blah" certainly needs to be one tool in the
arsenal to attach ALL crime and anti-social behavior, I'm going to
play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.
The group that is hopeless -- the psychotic, habitual sick criminal
will not be helped by punishment or stopped by punishment. But my
contention is that this segment is tiny compared to the criminal type
described above. While I don't want to see draconian measures anymore
than other people, we have to face the fact that we are animals --
mostly the males I speak of -- and will try to get away with whatever
we can get away with. Hence, the need for effective detterents will
always be necessary.
But what is an effective deterrent? Justice in the Middle East has for
centuries has called for criminals to have their hands cut off. But there
are still thefts.
I don't think education is the only answer either. I believe we should be
educating males, etc. but it's going to take more than a few years to
change what's been happening for centuries.
Until that happens we do need deterrence. But what kind of deterrence? I
don't believe in capital punishment. Until there is an effective solution,
should we just be content invoking revenge? Knowing that these people are
suffering a lengthy personal hell for what they've done?
Peter
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:52:02 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199605311452.HAA27930@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
coyote wrote:
1. Take time out get quiet (meditation, etc)
2. Simplify surroundings and stimuli
3. Get physical...
There are other little tricks: drink tons of water, eat
bananas... :)
Right. I do all these things and have for years. As the stresses and
complexity of my life increased, I felt I needed extra help to cope, so
I have sought treatment.
Both my kids have this thing too...our home is a loving home, but an
ADHD circus. We have a tendancy to bounce off each other like
pong-bong balls in a tumbling barrel, and with medication and other
management I'm trying to reduce the chaos and emotional extremes we
have been suffering from.
I'm the mistress of creative coping, and I'm pleased that I have lots
of tricks up my sleeve to teach my kids. They won't have to suffer
like I did as a kid. :) ADHD people get on people's nerves with their
erratic ways and their general jumpiness: I experienced alot of
rejection and abuse as a kid. :( My son, OTOH, is an honors student
who has turned my example and advice into a blueprint for living
successfully. :) He is popular, and is using his excess energy to power
a career on the stage.
My daughter, at eight, has some ripening to do, but she does have
friends, and certainly is understood and loved at home. She is having
some academic problems (like I had at that age), but I take courage
knowing that by the time I was in college I was getting all A's and
B's. I have faith that she will be OK too.
I'm really grateful to my husband Bruce, who has given me the stability
in my life that I needed. He's the string for my kite. :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:17:12 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Our own spiritual path (Re: How I got named)
Message-Id: <199605311517.IAA29102@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
The advice "Let it be" is really a call to vigorous
action: Throw off the blinders and look around you. There's
a lot of energy in that, and in silence.
What a cool post, coyote. :) Thanks for shareing.
I could easily take this as an excuse to revive the spirituality
thread. It's a topic dear to my heart. I have had many adventures in
spiritual exploration, and the story of my quest for the Goddess would
read like an action-adventure romance comedy. :)
Let it be...let yourself be...let the majesty and mystery of life BE.
:)
I can never feel awe without immediately wanting to jump up and dance.
Some people celebrate in stillness, some with ritual; I celebrate with
activity, dancing, (with my heart light as a feather) for the pleasure
of myself, my Goddess, my God. My whole life is a dance of
celebration. I love the Native tradition of sacred dancing: I agree
with it and practice it.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:37:43 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <199605311634.SAA24595@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There have been similar cases of such 'anti-black magic' media hullabaloo in
England. From afar here in Portugal it seems that they too were whipped up
out of thin air by (well meaning) social workers.
Sorry about my absentmindedness. My mind was on the message (most
absentminded people---like professors, you know---are not absentminded
at all, just too concentrated on one single thing. And they are males, lacking
female simultaneous capacity.)
I do not doubt that those social workers, or rather therapists, had convinced
themselves that they were well-meaning. Using their own presuppositions
and techniques, it is however not difficult to discern the power urge behind
their rampages across other people's lives.
TWolf
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:37:47 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Babboons and Seals
Message-Id: <199605311634.SAA24599@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
How do female Baboons deal with their mates?
Unfortunately, baboon females do not deal. They are dealt with. Their
life seems to be a sorry one, living in a closely guarded harem ruled
by a violently jealous autocrat. Which just goes to prove that if we
want something good, we cannot get it by appealing to Nature. Mother
Nature is a mean old bitch, to her daughters too.
Here however is a bit of news on the opposite side. In the spring, hares
are often seen jumping about in the fields, boxing each other with their
front paws. It was always supposed that they were males, fighting over
the females. Until some Swedish researchers decided to find out. So they
captured some combatants and sexed them. It turned out that the fights
were females boxing males about their ears (fat targets!) when they
would not take a no for a no ...
TWolf
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:47:20 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-ID:
There is something about "primal justice," that I find appealing--but my
politically correct intellect rejects it.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:52:06 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Hilary-a second child
Message-ID:
FEI was watching HardCopy(I think) and they did a survey of their viewers
FEwih the following question. Hilary says she wants to have another child do
FEyou believe her. 2/3 of the respondents did NOT believe her.
FEWhat does this say about what people think of a strong powerful woman who
FEalso wants to be maternal? Or is this just a comment o n politicians?
Who cares? Whose business is it? Do you *really* care what anyone does
with their genitals or reproductive organs?
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:00:13 -0700
From: Sene Giln
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AF79FD.574@interlog.com
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Andrew wrote:
impersonally,
andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-Id: <199605312003.NAA00156@catherine.renaissoft.com
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Sene Giln wrote with the subject "screw ewe androo":
Andrew wrote:
impersonally,
andrew
This is useless and obvious flaming, if a bit lame. I see something
like this from you again you're off the list. Got it?
Dee-Ann
List Administrator
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:07:22 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AF7BAA.7605@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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DEE-ANN...your so DOM...I love it....and agree..feel like he is infant
child and wants us to hold him up so he can walk. only he weighs 500
lbs.
Patricia
this list has gotten very busy...I like it!
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
Sene Giln wrote with the subject "screw ewe androo":
Andrew wrote:
impersonally,
andrew
This is useless and obvious flaming, if a bit lame. I see something
like this from you again you're off the list. Got it?
Dee-Ann
List Administrator
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 22:32:57 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Message-Id: <199605312031.WAA03501@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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On Fri, 31 May 1996 07:07:11 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
Even in the more humane future the possibility of abuse of prisoners
exists. When a person is controlled, they are vunerable to whomever
controls them. In the case of crimes of conscious, for example, when a
group reasonably bands together and goes against society because of a
difference of opinion, the temptation of the dominant, established
faction would be to label them all crazy, and might very benevolently
dope them up to the gills to keep them docile. This is a real danger.
Does this mean that you think groups like Hell's angels are acceptable,
and that a democratic constitutional state shouldn't do all in its power
to inhibit their activities (organized crime etc.)? Perhaps I've
misunderstood what you're saying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 22:38:09 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Primal justice. (Was: Re: Castration)
Message-Id: <199605312036.WAA04552@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, 31 May 1996 13:47:20 -0500, sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
There is something about "primal justice," that I find appealing--but my
politically correct intellect rejects it.
In my opinion there is no need for political correctness to reject
primal justice. Intellect is enough to arrive at that conclusion.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:08:21 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531230821.007fa638@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:07 31/05/96 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote the principles which I would
like to see form the basis of a new justice system starting with:
David, I certainly agree with you that prisoners should have basic
rights assured......
If you only skimmed it, go back and read it again.
I nominate Laura Goodwin as Mistress of Justice in the new world order.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:24:43 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601032443.00682b30@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:31 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:
The Swedish constitution guarantees anyone the right to form any
organizations. It doesn't grant them permission to engage in organized
crime or activities that endanger the life's and health of others. Hell's
Angels are one of the most prominent examples of neanderthal men in my
opinion. They are bullys of the worst sort.
No doubt you are right Magnus. And maybe you've got good personal reasons
against the Hell's Angels. They are certainly not my favourite bunch either.
But that wasn't my point was it?
However I'm glad your country has a constitution that is in accordance with
the point I was making. If all countries had such constitutions I wouldn't
be quite as worried about such dodgy ground. However some countries like the
UK refuse to have a constitution, just so their citzens cannot take them to
court and claim their rights.
Fortunately, the rest of Europe gives them a little shove now and then, but
not nearly hard enough.
If individual Hells Angels are taken to court for being in breach of Swedens
Laws that's fine. The problem that worries me is the idea of taking them to
court for being a member of the organisation per-se. I still think it's thin
ice.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:58:30 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601035830.006b2aa8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've just read the alt.sex.femdom.faq, (perhaps a bit late in the day after
17 years with Christine).
Seriously though, I got to the part where the reviewer thinks that Susan
Shellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
post fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
professionals of the new 'weaker sex'.
Sorry if the thought is irreverent.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:16:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: White Horse
To: femsuprem@renaissoft.com
Subject: SUP New Approach to Gender Issues
Message-Id: <199606010316.XAA32160@hubcap.clemson.edu
Hello,
Below is some information about an innovative workshop I think you
might find valuable. I also have an article(41K) which describes these
workshops in detail:
"Gender and racial relations in Western societies are dysfunctional and
unsustainable in their current forms. In particular, the domination and
exploitation of women is precisely mirrored in the domination and
exploitation of the Earth's natural ecosystems...
Vital changes have been inspired by the women's liberation and gay rights
movements over the past 30 years, as well as the men's movement in the past
decade...
It [the article] describes a new form of exploratory work for promoting
deep healing between men and women in an ecological context. Ten prototype
workshops have been held in the United States and Australia over the past
three years, and the results are highly encouraging...
We have accumulated considerable anecdotal data from participants about their
experiences in our gender workshops...
The anecdotal feedback has been illuminating and helpful for further
development of the prototype workshops..."
A systematic analysis of this data needs to be conducted, and a formal
evaluative procedure needs to be applied to assess the efficacy of this work.
Nevertheless, some preliminary patterns in participants' responses are
summarized in this article.
Please feel free to email me for more info about these results at
claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu See the workshop information below.
Cheers,
Claudia
* + + +
+ Join ECOPSYCHOLOGY at listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
+ subscribe ecopsychology firstname lastname
+ "Integrating Mind and Nature" |< |< claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu
GENDER AND ECOPSYCHOLOGY:
HEALING BETWEEN WOMEN, MEN, AND THE EARTH
July 27 - August 1, 1996
Shenoa Retreat Center (near San Francisco)
You are invited to an unusual gathering of women and men for exploration and
healing of our relationships with eachother and with the Earth.
Over the past 25 years, the women's and men's movements have created a
powerful context for women and men--separately--to address gender issues,
heal their wounds, and make new choices. Now, there is an urgent need for
mutual healing modalities that include both sexes and a diversity of lifestyle
preferences.
Restoring balance between women and men is fundamental to restoring balance
to our relationship with the Earth. Join us--whether straight, gay, or bi
--for intensive exploration and healing as we reawaken the fundamental unity
that underlies our apparent separation.
Content of the workshop:
* ecopsychology: bridging ecology, psychology, and spirituality
* experiential breathwork for accessing inner wisdom
* councils, group process work, movement, ritual
* ecofeminism, feminist psychology, and the new male psychology
* same-sex groups for in-depth exploration with others of same gender
WORKSHOP FACILITATORS
Will Keepin, PhD, Director of Integral Sustainability Associates, has
co-facilited over a dozen gender healing workshops in US and Australia
Johanna Johnson, MA, LPC, Integral Sustainability Associates,
psychotherapist specializing in sexual abuse, chronic trauma and
spirituality
Allen Kanner, PhD, co-author of _EcoPsychology: Restoring the Earth, Healing
the Mind_
Amy E. Fox, BA, co-founder of the National Religious Partnership for the
Environment at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine
REGISTER early, before June 15, 1996 for reduced expenses! Some partial
scholarships are also available.
For more information, contact Claudia at claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 96 05:17:32 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <199606010316.FAA25006@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:58:30 +0000, Christine & David Stevenson wrote:
Shellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
post fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
professionals of the new 'weaker sex'.
I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:29:11 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AFB907.3366@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Unfortunately, I only permit myself to be abused by Ladies who are actually
superior. This does exclude those whose spelling, grammar, and thought processes
would embarrass a third grader, Ewe nose hoo ewe r; Noble prize winners all. In
the interest of sparing them the anguish of further incomprehension, I shall, and
do hereby,
UNSUBSCRIBE
andrew.
p.m.s. (post-my-subscription) (that means "after my subscription" Patricia)
I in no way mean to insult those intelligent folks who express themselves
courteously and intelligently, and you understand your respective identities too.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:37:06 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601043706.006991cc@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:17 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:
I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?
Sorry, I did rather shorthand the point.
Kissinger being a prominent male Politician in a male dominated culture
frequents a Mistress.
It suggested to me the idea that prominent female politicians in a female
dominated culture might actively look for (perhaps underground) professional
male dominants.
David Stevenson. (turning the world on it's head).
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:36:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AFE4D6.3C53@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
That's Nobel Prize....good move while jumping on high horse of
correcting others spelling to spell that one wrong..see him jumping on
high horse only to slip and fall on his arse.....that's ass to you
andrew..
patricia
Andrew wrote:
This does exclude those whose spelling, grammar, and thought processes
would embarrass a third grader Noble prize winners all.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:37:51 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-ID: <31AFE53F.65D9@tiac.net
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Unless of course those female politicians are TOPS..in which case they
will line the subs up outside the front door.
patricia
Christine & David Stevenson wrote:
At 05:17 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:
I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?
Sorry, I did rather shorthand the point.
Kissinger being a prominent male Politician in a male dominated culture
frequents a Mistress.
It suggested to me the idea that prominent female politicians in a female
dominated culture might actively look for (perhaps underground) professional
male dominants.
David Stevenson. (turning the world on it's head).
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 86
Today's Topics:
Re: Living with ADD
Re: How to change society
Women who rape
Politics and fem. supremacy. (Was: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution)
Re: Prisoners rights.
Todays march for children
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:12:57 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199606010412.VAA14939@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.
My former sub had Adult ADD and I bought him that book, but he
read enough to know he had it, then proceeded to continue in his
regular ADD mode and dropped the ball. Oh well....
+Please+ be careful out there with those meds!
When I first started looking around, Ritalin was the standard,
but it too can have really scary side-effects.
There are at least 15 different drugs they use now for treating ADD and
ADHD. If one doesn't work another will. I don't know if there are any
herbs that will treat it, but checking with an herbalist or an alternative
MD/ND may help with that. I hate taking drugs because they usually
don't affect me the way they affect the norm, so it makes it hard to know
and I try to stay with more natural remedies.
involvement, etc may have more of a challenge. The nice thing-
the one really nice thing about ADD, some have told me- is
that the urgency of the diagnosis gives one =permission= to at
last get rid of some old baggage and lighten the load.
Someone else I know with ADD told me that if she had to have something
wrong with her, this was the thing because when
she gets going on something, she has this single-mindedness that helps
her finish things. OF COURSE, she said, it has to be something she likes
to do. She also mentioned that when she has sex, she focuses so totally
on it that her partners are in awe of her. ; ) Not such a bad thing.
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther
Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:13:06 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to change society
Message-Id: <199606010413.VAA14958@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dee-Ann--
1. Teachers in schools are horribly overloaded. They can barely
keep up with the scholastic aspects of their classes, let alone the
rising number of overly stressed and abused kids. Teachers need
assistance, rather than being blamed as the primary problem.
Yes, it is true and teachers do need assistance, but when my daughter
comes home and tells me the teachers are constantly being rude to
the children, saying shut-up, not explaining things to them, the mean
kids literally get the attention, while the 'good' kids are ignored...
I volunteer in my daughter's school...I was in her class, I had to leave to
go to the restroom and just after I left the class, a child asked the
teacher a question to which the teacher yelled, 'Just shut up." Now,
the child that asked the question was asking about a math sequence
(algebra) that she didn't understand. I looked back through the door
and looked at the teacher, who seeing me immediately turned red as
a beet. This is really not acceptable behavior from a teacher...I'm sorry,
but I will not let my daughter be in a class where the teacher is like
that--- I'm pulling my daughter out of the school and will be home
schooling her because of that.
I blame society as well for this...when every year, the school district
asks for money for the schools to hire more teachers, give teachers
much needed raises, money for books, supplies, etc. and the society
votes it down. Last election, I heard so many saying that they didn't
have kids, why should we pay for them...and in the same breath say,
"look at all the teen crime, teens on drugs, teens on the streets, teens
that can't read, teen pregnancy, etc." These teens/children are our
future leaders...if we don't support the schools financially, the future
leaders are the ones making the decisions for those who don't want
to give money to the schools because they don't have kids.
I agree and disagree with you on this issue.
2. Perhaps in earlier grades requiring _everyone_ to take short
courses of home economics and shop will help to deal with a bit of the
"only girls take that" and "only boys take that." Trying to actually
make both courses interesting to both genders is the challange. If
all of the boys find home economics boring, they will continue to
think of it as girl's stuff. If the girls find shop boring or
overwhelming, they will continue to think of it as boy's stuff or
beyond them.
I agree with this.
3. Deal severely with teachers who are proven to have treated one
gender like they can't do something on a repeated basis. I know a
woman who was brilliant at math until in high school she wasn't
allowed to take 2 math courses simultaenously, while some guy with a
worse track record was. After that, she was convinced she couldn't do
math.
I agree with this...That happened to my daughter this year. Math
was always her favorite subject, until this year...now she hates it
and thinks it's too hard.
4. School sports is a biggie. IMO a lot of male school sports
coaches encourage their players to objectify women. They certainly
encourage them to value testosterone and other macho bull. Though,
this differs between countries. School football, for instance, is
huge in the US. It's not that big in Canada. Canada doesn't have
that US "school spirit" thing going and maybe it's a good thing. You
don't have academic programs being shafted to help the school football
team. Also, women's sports tend to be underfunded compared to men's
sports.
I think they should not make such a big deal about sports, and use more
money for books and other academic endeavors.
5. Find some way to stop young guys from taking steroids! Great
way to become more aggressive, hostile, and dangerous. Convince them
that not only is it horrible for their bodies, but unnecessary. This
comes back to self image. Guys are being hit more and more by the
same looks bull that women have been slammed with over the years.
It's pushing male teens even faster into going for the steroids so
they won't be scrawny.
Exactly... They are also becoming anorexic and bulimic for the same
reasons that women do. I was just reading an article about men's
health that was talking about the "male" eating disorders.
6. Self esteem in general is important for both genders. Low
self esteem pushes guys to be bullies, or doormats. It pushes women
to be doormats, or catty. It's driving both genders into eating
disorders, which damages the body for life. There are enough parents
at home telling their kids that they're losers, enough people who
aren't their parents telling their entire generation that they're
losers (as a gen-xer trust me, I understand). Let's find ways to help
teens feel like winners that don't involve violence, drugs, rape,
etc.
I agree with you here in a big way. You've hit the nail on the head.
We need to ensure our kids have high esteem, high confidence. I feel
there should be classes in problem solving/resolution, anger managment,
how to feel good about yourself and build self-esteem and self-confidence
classes. There are things I will be teaching my daughter, plus she will
be taking swimming lessons, martial arts, she will walk with me every
day (she's a kinesthetic learner) and we'll talk about school work as
we go, we'll go to the museums and lectures, which children generally
don't go to during the school day, and she'll do volunteer work. I am
also going to teach her about balancing a check book, more about
cooking (she already can do the basics) and a lot about the computer.
One of my friends here, has a daughter who may become a penpal with
my daughter which will improve her computer and her writing skills.
At this point, I think home schooling for the next 2 years will help her
with the skills she will need in High school where she will really need
her wits about her.
One of the other things I'm going to work with her on is guys. The
lines (Trust me, I love you, we can f**k just once and you won't get
pregnant because you're a virgin....), how to protect herself, all
about condoms and how to use them (on a banana, of course), and
everything she needs to know, so if she get4s involved with a guy,
she can make intelligent decisions without feeling pressure. Things
she will need to know anyway.
*phew* that's it for this list for now. :)
Of course, we know there is so much more involved.
How do we teach the jerk older guys the error of their ways? An
addition to an earlier post is to contribute to proving wrong the
concept of the "white male as victim" that seems to be getting popular
among guys who can't get jobs. They need to understand that no one is
getting jobs. And, IMO severely biased quota systems just contribute
to this problem, and don't benefit anyone in the long term.
You are right about the job situation, but so many of those guys
believe that they are being screwed by women and minorities...
Sounds great. :) My main concern with home schooling is making sure
the child learns how to deal with other folks. What kind of exposure
does your daughter have to other kids her age?
There won't be a problem with that. There are support networks out
there for people that home school and they have a system for the kids
to all get together... She takes swimming lessons, martial arts lessons
and has a lot of friends already (severaL that went to different middle
schools) that she plays with on a regular basis. I've got that handled
already-- that was the very first thing I looked into. Plus, there are two
other mothers at her school that are fed up as well, and the 3 of us will
share the load of home schooling together, which also will help with the
peer/kids her age problem.
I was reading somewhere that some ad agency started using women of all
sizes. They've had unbelievable amounts of calls and letters thanking
them for portraying "real women." This should certainly help them
decide to do it more often.
That is really terrific!
Have a good weekend everyone!
Dee-Ann--
The problem is that the female rape victims who go out and rape men in
return are hurting themselves as well as the men. That kind of anger
isn't healthy, and consumes the soul. They're really continuing to
victimise themselves as they go out and victimise others. And, what
if the man they victimise was a wonderful guy, who had never hurt a
woman, etc.? What if she turns him into a misogynist?
You are absolutely right. I think that if a man is raped, I believe he
would turn totally inward... Men have a hard time when they are put
in a position where they have no power in a situation like this.
A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.
That's why rape is hard on either gender. Rape harms not only the
body, but the spirit/psyche/heart of a person. When someone gets raped,
it leaves the victim with an immense feeling of powerlessness. It is very
hard to overcome. It has taken me years to get over what my mom and
step-dad did. Thankfully, the anger and powerlessness has been handled.
It comes back emotionally from time to time and I'm sure you understand
why I'm a Domme and not a sub or a switch.
This also comes back to the fact that just because one person was
victimised, that doesn't give them the right to turn around and
victimise someone else. That just continues the cycle of abuse.
Exactly right, Dee-Ann! I broke the cycle, many do not or are not able
to break that cycle... It takes years for the victim to acknowledge that
it wasn't their fault, that there was nothing they could do to prevent it.
With counselling, the victims learn those things, plus they learn to
become empowered and become survivors, eventually learning how to thrive.
It is not easy, whether the abuse/rape happens in childhood or in adulthood,
but it can be overcome. It does not mean that the experience will not
surface, but if it does come up, it can be dealt with internally without
the acting out that Dee-Ann was commenting on. Cycles of abuse can be
broken...
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther
Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 96 06:38:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Politics and fem. supremacy. (Was: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution)
Message-Id: <199606010437.GAA00366@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, 31 May 1996 23:37:51 -0700, Noble wrote:
Unless of course those female politicians are TOPS..in which case they
will line the subs up outside the front door.
This sparked another twist to the subject in my warped mind (it was
warped before I started using Warp) :).
In Sweden we have a party system. I.e. if you choose to do volounteer
work, you do it for a party and not a single politician, which, as far as
I understand, is the way it works in the U.S.A. This annoys me a bit,
because I can't choose to selectively support a female politician without
at the same time supporting the entire party with my work. I wish we had a
system more like the American :(.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 06:07:39 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <199606011307.GAA14734@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
I nominate Laura Goodwin as Mistress of Justice in the new world
order.
David Stevenson.
:::bowing::: Why thank you! :)
Do I get a tiara and an armband? :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 09:35:05 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Todays march for children
Message-ID: <31B07139.5C4F@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hundreds of thousands of men, women and children are gathering at the
Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. today to support our Children.
Called the Stand For Children Day there is a web page where you can sign
on with your support for the event. It is asking the federal government
to keep supporting those programs that benefit children. The
Conservative and Religious Right are protesting the event (our best
friends) If you would like to send in your name for supporting the
children, the gathering and federal aid for children...go to
http://www.stand.org/pledge.html
and sign in with your support.
Patricia
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #86
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The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media
An Annotated Bibliography and Subject Index
Prepared by Mistress Blanca and Peter (Green Way)
viaverde@ix.netcom.com
http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
Version 4.9, June 1, 1996
Copyright 1994 - 1996
Posted On the 1st of Every Month to the alt.sex.femdom,
alt.answers, and news.answers newsgroups
This is an extensive annotated bibliography and detailed subject
index to the books, magazines, newspapers, newsletters, pamphlets,
software, videos, erotic art, audiotapes, Internet resources, CDs, zines
and films about the subject of the Sexually Dominant Woman and Her
ardent devotees. It includes materials on the Mistress, Dominant
Woman, Domina, Dominatrix, Dominatrice, Domme, Female
Dominant, Top Woman, Cruel Woman, Venus in Furs, Ruling Wife,
Dominant Queen, Governess, School Mistress, Sadistic Woman, Bitch,
Butch, Goddess, etc.; and, Her lover, submissive, husband, bottom,
servant, masochist, thrall, underling, slave, worshiper, victim, charge,
pupil, etc.. The submissive(s) may be one or many, male or female.
In keeping with the sexual nature of this particular Internet
newsgroup, alt.sex.femdom, we include materials that discuss erotic
sadomasochism, bondage, discipline, dominant and submissive
relations (i.e., power exchanges, games, role playing, lifestyles, etc.),
fetishes, servitude, female supremacy, body worship, sexual slavery,
sadism, etc..
This listing attempts to give special emphasis to works by female
authors, women owned businesses, or female media producers.
The term "Dominatrix" here includes the interests and
perspectives of a variety of persons that enjoy FemDom BDSM:
FemDom Tops, sub-bottoms, from joyful beginners to happy advanced
players, from monogamous het or lesbian couples to extroverted club
players and pansexual adventurers, to solo masochists that enjoy the
FemDom fantasy, to nonprofessional experts, to playful D/s lovers, to
SM Leather Culture enthusiasts, Perv Stylists and FemDom fetishists,
as well as to include the Professional "BDSM for Hire" Female Tops.
The authors of this work are Mistress Blanca [MB] and her
husband, Peter [SP]. We have collected and enjoyed this type of
material for decades. Both of us are willing to continue efforts to
compile, review, and annotate titles of books, periodicals, films, and
videos for this bibliography. We welcome your inquiries, comments,
suggestions, and additions; as well as your corrections and constructive
criticism. Please send your comments to our e-mail box at:
viaverde@ix.netcom.com. You will always be credited for your
contributions (annotations or comments).
We have benefitted from the posts, previous bibliographic work,
encouragement, suggestions, e-mail contributions and/or e-mail
comments of others: Jay Doubleyou [JW], Leonard, Jay Warren, Xur,
Graham Barron, Karen, Lady Beclan, Modemac, Tristan/Ken, John,
Melissa, VFashion, Christopher Moore, Mistress Infinity - Ms.C,
Francis R. [FR], Minx Kelly, Karen Olsen, tim, Andreas Mann, Robert
J. LeBlanc, Alan S, Coyote Sings, Janet Hayes, an175509, Sherry and
Brett, Pat - L10WC, Robert Hill., Will N., Abdus, Krystine Renee,
Andrea, Galaxy, knave4u, Mistress Nan, Fortuna700, Raley, Mistress
Julie, Keri, Baron d'EST, Fritz Peronius, Shinkoku Ninhwa, Sal, Rob
Jellinghaus, Paddy, Alfred, Ms Amanda, Dirk De Kegel, Forbin,
Patches, Peter G., Thomas tph, farnorth, Patty the Pooch, Mistress
Natasha, Pan Pantziarka [PP], and many others. Please send email to
us at: viaverde@ix.netcom.com
******** ********* *********
******** ********* *********
WHAT IS !! NEW !! IN THIS VERSION
This version of "The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media"
(TDiPaOM), 4.9, 6/1/96 has some new reviews and resources. A
special thanks goes out to Pan Pantziarka, Reviews Editor, Fetish
Times - UK, for information on titles by Maria del Rey. We also thank
Ms. Natasha for information on Bondage Tymes. Check our our
updated BDSM Bookmark at http://www.viaverde.com/sex/.
Our RECENT FAVORITES include:.
My Private Life by Mistress Nan
Bondage Tymes from Goddess Natasha
Women Who Administrer Punishment (Whap!). Magazine
SandMUtopian Guardian. Edited by Nick and Carrie Blume.
RESOURCES:
Quality SM Bookstore, QSM, http://www.qualitysm.com
The Human Sexuality Library at the University of Washington, http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/index.html.
RESEARCH:
Seeking info on new BDSM mail lists or www pages on Internet?
******** ********* *********
******** ********* *********
The detailed subject index in TDiPaOM includes many works
not cited in the bibliography; but, references to these items are readily
available elsewhere, e.g., in Books in Print, film or video handbooks,
or in university library catalogs accessible on the Internet through
gophers via Telnet.
We use the following conventions in TDiPaOM: 1) Titles of
publications are shown inside _underline marks_; and most words in a
title will begin with a capital letter. 2) Titles of articles within another
publication are shown inside "double quotes." 3) Comments, reviews
or quotes from others are shown inside *asterisk* quotes; and credits
are always given. 4) Organizations, clubs, or businesses that produce
print or media work are listed under the title of the group. 5) Edited or
anonymous works are listed under the title of the work. 6) Pen names,
pseudonyms, stage, working, pen names, e.g., Mistress Blanca, are
filed under the nom de plume.
This bibliography, TDiPaOM, is copyrighted, c 1994 - 1996 by
the persons holding the accounts identified as "viaverde@netcom.com"
and "viaverde@ix.netcom.com (Green Way)." Any unauthorized use,
distribution, or duplication in print or electronic format of TDiPaOM
for commercial gain is prohibited. Individuals may download
TDiPaOM for personal use.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
_Against Sadomasochism: A Radical Feminist Analysis_
Edited by R. Linden, D. Pagano, D. Russell, and S. Star. Palo
Alto, California, Frog in the Well, 1982. Obviously, many seriously
disagree with BDSM power exchanges, and here are some feminist
arguments to think about.
_American Foot Fetish Society_
For Lover's of the Female Foot. AFFS, PO Box 54380,
Cincinnati, Ohio 45254-0380.
Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_By Her Subdued: Erotic Tales of Women's Power_.
Rhinoceros, c 1995, $6.95. Also writes under the name Sara
Adamson.
Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_Leatherwomen 11: Revenge of the Leatherwomen!_ Rosebud,
1994, $4.95.
Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_No Other Tribute: Erotic Tales of Women in Submission_.
Rhinoceros, 1995. $6.95. [SP]
Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_Some Women_. Introduction by Pat Califia. Rhinoceros, 1995,
$6.95.
Antrews, Grant
_My Darling Dominatrix_. New York: Masquerade Books,
Inc., 1992. A Rhinoceros Book. 538 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-055-5.
Price: $6.95 US. Comments: A very well written romantic novel that
explores the emerging love between two successful young persons;
with She being a professional Dominatrix, artist, and vibrant woman.
An intelligent and sensitive story. [MB]
Antrews, Grant
_Submissions_. New York, Masquerade Books, Inc.,
Rhinoceros Books Edition, c 1994. Paperback, $6.95 US. 267 pages.
ISBN: 1-56333-207-8.
Artemis Creations Publishing
Artemis Creations Publishing, 3395 Nostrand Ave. Suite 2-J
Brooklyn, NY 11229.
_Attitude_
A monthly magazine published by the TFN Research Group,
Inc., 10026 Manchester Road, Ste. 214, St. Louis, MO 63122. Phone:
(314) 822-5405. Fax: (314) 822-4975. Price: $10.00 a single copy,
$120.00 for a one-year subscription US. A glossy 8.5" X 11"
magazine format, with 40+ pages per issue. Comments: Short articles,
reviews, B&W and color photos, interviews, list of clubs and
organizations, ads from pro Dommes, video ads, personal classifieds,
letters to editor, etc.. Many photos of beautiful women in fetish attire.
Includes column by Catherine Wolfe. Emphasis upon the viewpoints
and beliefs of the bisexual Dominant "Goddess Dianna Vesta" (GDV),
e.g., female supremacy, submission and training of men, Goddess
worship. A very nice magazine layout and typefaces; but print and
photos are sometimes too light and blurry (e.g, Issue 11). Started in
1991. Owned and operated by women. Previous posts (12/94, 2/96,
3/96) had lively discussions (pro and con) about TFN. The above
address is no longer current. [SP]
_Bad Attitude_
Bad Attitude, Publication of Phantasia Publications, P.O. Box
390110, Cambridge, MA 02139. Jasmine Sterling, Publisher.
Mmmmm, Art Director. 6 issues per year for $24.00. Open minded
and kinky lesbian emphasis. Lesbian erotic fiction, informative
articles, interviews, letters to editor, ads, intimate b&w photographs,
and illustrations. Hot stuff! Lots of D&S. [MB]
Baldwin, Guy
_Ties That Bind: The SM/Leather/Fetish Erotic Style - Issues,
Commentaries and Advice_. Edited by Joseph Bean. Preface by
Gayle Rubin. Los Angeles, Daedalus Publishing Company, c 1993.
244 pages. $14.95. ISBN: 1-881943-09-7. An engaging and
insightful set of articles taken from _Drummer_ magazine. Mr.
Baldwin is a psychotherapist, Mr. Leather title holder, well known
speaker, and sophisticated analyist of the Leather culture and BDSM
interpersonal relationships. [SP]
Barron, Graham
_S&M Bibliography (Revised)_. Authors, titles and date for a
wide variety of S&M books, magazines, and a few films. No
bibliographic information. 9K file. Revised 9/14/94. [SP]
Beauvoir, Simone de
_The Marquis De Sade: An Essay_. With selections from his
writings by Paul Dinnage. New York, Grove Press, 1953.
Chronology, bibliography, 236 pages. LCN: 53-7066. [MB]
_Behind the Scene_
A Journal dedicated to the Disciplinary Female. With Jennifer
Brooks. P.O. Box 2237, Alpine, California, 91903. [SP]
Benjamin, Jessica
_The Bonds of Love: Psychoanalysis, Feminism, and the
Problem of Domination_. New York, Pantheon, 1988. Index (pp.295-
304), Bibliography (pp.225-243), Notes (245-294), ix, 304 pages.
ISBN: 0-394-55133-8. [MB]
Beresford, Titan
_The Wicked Hand_. Masquerade Books, c 1995. Submissive
men masturbated. [SP]
_Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics_
From Victoria Edwards, ae606@FreeNet.Carleton.CA. Based
on Spike Peterson's Bibliography with Supplementary Materials
supplied by Lev Gonick. Posted 12/26/94. Available in
Femsupremacy Archives. 19 Pages.
_Bitches With Whips_
_Bitches with Whips: Dedicated to Female Dominance_.
Published by DM International, P.O. Box 99770 Seattle, WA 98199.
Started in 1993. Published four times a year; 6 issues for $48.00. 8.5"
x 11" glossy magazine format. Comments: Strong Pro Domme
emphasis. Erotic fiction, longer informative articles, rules for slaves,
tales of scenes, clothing and equipment ads, no personal ads, and many
direct contact ads from professional Dominatrixes. Well written
articles and a nice layout. In the summer of 1994, they went to a four
color cover format and will publish only three times a year now.
Emphasis on western U.S. and Canada. [MB]
_Black Leather in Color_
A Leather Magazine for People of Color and Friends. Quarterly
for $20.00. BLIC, P.O. Box 1035, NYC, NY 10116.
_Bondage Tymes_
Ms. Natasha's Bondage Tymes. R&F Enterprises, PO Box
23604, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33307-3604. (305) 537-3058. Each issue
around 50 pages at $10.00. B&W photography, drawings. Sections
include: Lifesytle Dominas, Interviews, Groups and Organizations,
Parties, Clubs, Videos. Emphasis upon bondage, boot and heel
worship, watersports, trampling, and female domination. Lots of full
page ads by pro Dominas, and many personal ads. A very strong
south Florida emphasis.
_Boudoir Noir_
Leather-Fetish-Consensual S&M Magazine. 6 Issues for
$24.00. Box 5, Stn. F, Toronto ON M4Y 2L4.
_Boot Lover's Digest_
Published by Strictly Speaking, PO Box 8006, Palm Springs, CA
92263. Issue #4, 1994. Price: $10 per issue US. A high quality glossy
magazine, color and B&W photos, artwork, sources, interviews, ads
from pro Dommes, and lots of commercial ads. Irregular publication.
Those that love the Female dressed in leather boots and fetish attire
will find gorgeous Women galore in this specialty magazine. [SP]
_Boudoir Noir_
Bimonthly publication. $50.00 per year. Box 5, Stn. F, Toronto
ON M 4Y 2L4.
Brame, Gloria G.
_Different Loving: An Exploration of the World of Sexual
Dominance and Submission_. Gloria G. Brame, William D. Brame,
and Jon Jacobs. New York: Villard Books, Random House, c 1993.
539 pages, bibliography, notes. ISBN: 0-679-40873-8. Price: $25.00
US. Comments: A first rate work! A well organized survey of all the
main dimensions of SM D/s. Informative, accurate, and insightful
commentary. Sound historical observations. An outstanding collection
of interviews with active participants in the scene. Many heterosexual
couples are featured. [MB]
Brantenberg, Gerd
_Egalia's Daughters: A Satire of the Sexes_. Translated from the
Norwegian by Louis Mackay in cooperation with Gerd Brantenberg.
Seattle, Washington, Seal Press, c1985. 269 pp.
Series: (Women in Translation). ISBN: 0931188342. $8.95.
[Silverheart].
Braun, Walter
_Sadismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus_. Flensburg, 4. Aufl.
1989: Orion. TB, 224 S., DM 24,- . Originally: The Cruel and the
Meek. London 1968: Luxor Press. [Thomas tph]
Cadivec, Edith
Her works were published in both English and German. German
references include: (A) _Bekenntnisse und Erlebnisse_, "Confessions
and Experiences," Privatdruck, Hellerau 1931: Avalun-Verlag, 346 S.
(B) _Eros, der Sinn meines Lebens_, "Eros: The Meaning of My
Life," Privatdruck, Rahnitz-Hellerau 1932: Avalun-Verlag, 322 S.
Walter Braun wrote that *Cadivec worked as a Headmistress of
a Privatschool for Children in Wien, Germany. There she did whip
some children (and her own daughter) for the amusement of some rich
people. In 1924 a judge sentenced her to 6 years in prison.* Translated
from the German by [Thomas tph].
Califia, Pat
"Love and the Perfect Sadist." _Skin Two_, Issue 12, 1992, pp.
42-47.
Califia, Pat
_Macho Sluts_; Erotic Fiction By Pat Califia. Boston, MA,
Alyson Publications, 1988. Introduction, notes, eight stories, 296
pages. The stories include: Jessie, The Finishing School, The Calyx of
Isis, The Hustler, The Surprise Party, The Vampire, The Spoiler, and A
Dash of Vanilla. ISBN: 1-55583-115-X. Price: $9.95 US. Comments:
Steamy SM lesbian erotica by the Best Mistress of the genre. Whow!
First Rate! [MB]
Califia, Pat
_Sapphistry: The Book of Lesbian Sexuality_. Naiad Press,
Tallahassee, Florida, 1988.
Califia, Pat
_Sensuous Magic; SM, Sensuous Magic, A Guide for
Adventurous Couples_. First Richard Kasak Book Edition,
Masquerade Books, Inc., c 1993. 185 pages. Glossary, bibliography,
resource guide. ISBN: 1-56333-131-4. Price: $12.95 US. Also
published in Spanish by Martinez Roca editores [Sal]. Comments: A
very well written introduction to SM D/s for all readers. Useful for
hets. All aspects of technique, role playing, attitude, safety, and
couples play are very carefully presented. Ms. Califia has been an
outstanding spokesperson for the SM Leather culture for decades:
former columnist for "Drummer," former editor of "Sandmutopian
Guardian, " activist, leader in organizations, regular contributor to
_Skin Two_, fiction writer ... And, all of this highly respected talent is
displayed again in "Sensuous Magic." [MB]
_Capitulation_
This monthly newspaper: _Capitulation (A Magazine of Sexual
Surrender)_ is published by Fantastic Books, P.O. Box 34,
Amityville, NY 11701-0034. Publisher: Richard Shore. Editor:
Victoria Reeves. Phone: (516) 753-2677. FAX: (516) 753-2423.
Price: $3.00 single copy, $50.00 one-year subscription, US. Each
13.5" X11" issues is around 40 pages. Comments: Typical newspaper
format Fem Dom - male sub publication; although sub females are
occasionally featured. Shorter articles that are generally well edited.
B&W photos, some illustrations, color cover. Lots of ads from Pro
Dommes. Mistress Jayne Alexander answers letters. One of many
Fantastic Books publications. [MB]
Carter, Angela 1940-
_The Sadeian Woman and the Ideology of Pornography_. New
York, Pantheon Books, 1978. Bibliography, 154 pages. ISBN: 0-394-75893-5. Price: $ 8.95. Comments: This thought provoking polemical
study takes a feminist reading of the Marquis de Sade's work and two
of his important characters: Justine and Juliette. Ms. Carter carefully
explores the relationship of power to sexuality, and the politics of
sexual freedom. [MB]
Cecilione, Michael
_Domination_. Kensington Publishing Corp, Zebra Books, Dept.
4406, Park Ave. South, N.Y., NY 10016. 1993. ISBN: 0-8217-4406-2.
$4.50 U.S.
CF Pulications
CF Publications, Box 706EU, E. Setauket, NY 11733. Phone:
(516) 689-6743, and FAX at (516) 689-6755. Publishers of spanking
erotica, spanking magazines, bibliographies of spanking in novels,
filmographies of spanking in movies, etc.. Over 600 spanking stories
available. Source: Prometheus, Spring 1994. [SP]
Chancer, Lynn S. 1954-
_Sadomasochism In Everyday Life: The Dynamics of Power and
Powerlessness_. New Brunswick, New Jersey, Rutgers University
Press, 1992. Chapter notes and references, index, 238 pages. ISBN:
0-8135-1808-3. Price: 15.00 US. Comments: A detailed discussion
of nonsexual dominance and submission in the workplace, in homes, in
social relations. A brief commentary on sexual SM D/s in our culture.
For advanced D/s readers, and for those with a strong feminist
orientation. [MB]
Cilescu, Valentia
_Mistress Mine_ Published by Masquerade Books, Inc, NY, c
1993. A Rosebud Book. 182 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-109-8. Price:
$4.95 US. [SP]
_Coming to Power_
Edited by members of SAMOIS, a lesbian/feminist S/M
Organization. Coming To Power: Writings and Graphics on Lesbian
S/M. Boston, MA, Alyson Publicaitons, c 1981, Third U.S. editon,
1987. 287 pages. ISBN: 0-932870-28-7. Price: $9.95 US. [SP]
_The Countess in Red_
Adapted by J.M. Lo Duca and Georges Pichard. Based on the
story by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Eurotica, an imprint of NBM
Publishing, 185 Madison Ave., Ste. 1504, NY, NY 10016. 46 pages.
ISBN: 1-56163-098-5. Price: $9.95 US. Comments: An adult, comic
book style illustrated version of the sadistic Transylvanian Countess
Erzsebet Bathory who retained her youth and beauty by means of
monthly baths in human blood. Graphic illustrations of sadistic lust,
torture and murder. [MB]
Cowan, Lyn
_Masochism: A Jungian View_. Dallas, Texas, Spring
Publications Inc., 1982, 1985. x, chapter notes and references, 137
pages. ISBN: 0-88214-320-4. Price: $12.00 US. Comments: A very
insightful look into the spiritual and psychological depths of SM. An
excellent analysis of the religous parallels of BDSM practices. One of
our all-time favorites. [MB]
Crepax, Guido
_Venus in Furs_. A graphic novel, illustrated by Guido Crepax.
Adapted from a text by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Published by
Catalan Communications, 43 East 19th Street, New York, NY 10003.
64 pages, black and white illustrations. ISBN: 0-87416-091-X. Price:
$ 11.95 US. 64 pages. Comments: Delightful and detailed drawings in
an adult comic book style format. The story line text does not get in
the way of the sumptuous erotic illustrations. Follows the Venus story
loosely from the point Wanda von Dunajew and Severin (Gregor)
arrive in Florence. A book for beginning to advanced SM D/s people.
[MB]
_Cruella_
The Fantasy World of Cruella. The Ultimate Publication
Devoted to Cruel and Evil Bitch-Goddesses in Full Action FD Photo
Stories. Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO
Box 122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine. Price:
$15.00 US. Comments: Related to _Goddess_ and _Riding Cult_
magazines from R-H. High quality photographs in B&W and some
color. Lots of "Leather, Rubber, PVC, Whips, Spurs, High Heels" and
"Devoted to the Dominant Female." Retail prices range from $12 -
$16. [MB]
Dally, Peter
_The Fantasy Game: How Male and Female Sexual Fantasies
Affect Our Lives_. New York, Stein and Day, 1975. xii, 204 pages,
references, index. [SP]
De Gravelaine, Joel
"The two best books on Lilith? I would say: _La Renaissance
De Lillith_ by Joel de Gravelaine. De Gravelaine is a publishing
directrice for the editor Lafont in Paris. She is also an excellent
astrologer and she has a great collection of historical cutting
instruments. My second choice: _Reflexions sur Lilith_ by Jean
Carteret, writer and astrologer. Least but not last, the artwork about
Lilith by Denyson (a French artist, who worked in the 1940's)." From
Baron d'EST, a eckhart@iprolink.ch, 11/16/95. [MB]
Maria del Rey
_The Institute_, Nexus Books (UK), 1992, ISBN 0352328134.
*The story of a corrective institute for young women run by a group of
extremely dominant Mistresses. Includes enforced feminisation of
males, SM, power play, spanking. One of the UK's top selling femdom
novels. Highly recommended.* [PP]
Maria del Rey
_Obsession_, Nexus Books, 1993, ISBN 0352328533.
*The story of a man who learns to submit to the Mistress he fears and
desires in equal measure. Recommended by Forum Magazine.* [PP]
Maria del Rey
_Heart of Desire_, Nexus Books, 1994, ISBN 0352329009.
*A woman discovers her natural Dominance - and the men who submit
to her. Three editions of the book in 2 years!* [PP]
Maria del Rey
_Sisterhood of The Institute_, Nexus Books, 1994, ISBN
0352329718. *A sequel to The Institute: enforced feminisation in a
correctional institute run exclusively by Dominant females.* [PP]
Maria del Rey
_Dark Desires_, Nexus Books, 1996, ISBN 0352330724.
*Short story collection, includes a number of femdom stories along
with other SM, spanking and fetishist fiction.* [PP]
Dickson, Jim E.
_Ring of Steel, The Diary of a Modern Slave: Part 1_. Eros
Publishing Company, Inc., Wilmington Delaware. Distributed by
MAGCORP, the Magazine Corporation of America, Cleveland Ohio.
_Direct Contact Guide to B&D_
A bimonthly direct contact directory of pro Dommes. Also
includes lots of personals. Published by R&F Enterprises Inc., 3515
NW 10 Avenue, Oakland Park, FL 33309.
_Divinity_
Divine Press, P.O. Box 108, Stockport, Cheshire, SK1 4DD,
England, circa 1993. About $6.00.
_Domina_
Domina: The Corrective/Restrictive Arts Magazine. Fully
illustrated, articles, stories, news and personal ads. From the Fetish
Perv scene in London. 305 Madison Ave., Suite 1166, New York, NY
10165. $25.00 per issue.
_Domina News_
A quarterly newsletter for lifestyle and professional dominant
women. Ideas for marketing and managing an adult business. $20 per
year. 10028 Manchester Road, Suite 214, St. Louis, MO 63122.
_Dominant Domain_
Published by New Esoteric Press, Inc., P.O. Box 30689, JFK
Station, Jamaica, NY 11430. A monthly newspaper. Publisher: Sandy
York. Price: $36.00 US for 12 issues. Comments: Fem Dom - male
sub emphasis. Stories, B&W photos, and lots of commercial ads.
Similar to _Dominant Mystique_. Many ads for expensive videos.
Excellent cover artwork. Many of the stories are poorly written
"letters", and the editing is often low grade. Recent issues show an
improvement in editing and typesetting. [MB]
_Dominant Mystique_
Monthly Newspaper. _Dominant Mystique: The Number One
Female Domination Newspaper in the Nation_. Volumes 1 -13, 1979-1992. Published by the New Esoteric Press Inc., P.O. Box 300689,
JFK Station, Jamaica, New York, 11430. Publisher Sandy York.
Editor: Alison James. Comments: This newspaper emphasizes Female
Dominants and male submissives. It contains B&W photographs,
drawings, short stories and comments by readers, articles by
professional Dominatrixes, classified personal ads, and general ads.
The professional Dominatrixes that have written articles include:
Madame X, Mistress Brigit, Mistress Connie, Mistress LaFleur,
Mistress Verushka, Mistress/Goddess Diana Vesta, and many others.
Many ads for expensive videos. Excellent cover art at times.
Sometimes prone to publishing poorly written "letters" and mediocre
editing; recent issues show a dramatic improvement in this area. Some
of this work is republished in a glossy magazine format under various
titles. [MB]
_Dominant View_
The Dominant View - Devoted to the Dominant Female.
Published by Fantastic Books, PO Box 34, Amityville, NY 11701-0034. Newspaper. Price: $50.00 per year.
_Domination Directory International_
Published by Strictly Speaking Pub. Co., PO Box 8006, Palm
Springs, CA 92263. See also _Boot Lover's Digest_. [MB]
_Domin-a-Trics_
Mistress Artemis Antone and Friends. A CD ROM product.
Over 1,000 fetish SM, B&D GIF images. Source: (818) 879-4840.
_La Domme: A Dominatrix Anthology_
Edited by Claire Baeder. This is a collection
of Spectrum Press dominatrix fiction, including the new novella _The
Iron Lady_ by R. Pruett. This is now available on floppy disk for PC
and Mac. Masquerade Books published a print edition in 1995 for
$5.95. [Karen Olsen, 73774.2733@compuserve.com, Spectrum
Press.]
_Dommission_
Dominance and submission zine for hets. Some personals. For
information write to: Dommission, PO Box 2036, Alexandria, VA,
22301.
Jay Doubleyou
_Alt.Sex.Femdom FAQ_. By Jay Doubleyou at
juu@netcom.com. Date: 7/5/95, Ver 0.5, Fifth Draft, Parts 1 (673
lines) and Part 2 (1187 lines). Detailed information on the FemDom
newsgroup, FemDom organizations, etiquette for A.S.Femdom,
Internet software usage, educational resources, definitions of terms,
current books and magazines, vendors, and other sources. NOTE: This
annotated bibliography, TDiPaOM, was originally inspired by Jay's
original FAQ post on 9/1/94. Jay is to be commended for his excellent
effort, thoroughness, tact, and enthusiasm. Please refer to the asfd
FAQ for Jay's comments on FemDom organizations. Jay has also
conducted surveys of the alt.sex.femdom newgroups readers. [MB]
Draconian Leather by Metz
Whips made by the Master Whip Maker Janet Metz Hayes. For
information write to janet.hayes@mustang.com. Her BBS name is
Draconian Leather 805-634-9805. Address: 2325 Chester Lane #A,
Bakersfield, CA 93304.
Earle, Alice Morse
_Curious Punishments of Bygone Days_. Originally published
in 1896. The illustrations by Frank Hazenplug. Port Townsend,
Washington, Loompanics Unlimited, 1896, 1986. 149 pages. ISBN:
0-915179-53-9.
Easton, Dossie
_The Bottoming Book; Or, How to Get Terrible Things Done To
You By Wonderful People_. By Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt
(Lady Green). Illustrations by Fish. 104 pages. Bibliography. Price:
$11.95 US. Comments: Basic information on being an OK bottom,
enjoying the passions of a bottom, connecting with Tops, playing,
scenes and roles, and spirituality in SM. An openhearted approach to
the bottom's energy and desires. Delightful illustrations by Fish. [MB]
Easton, Dossie
_The Topping Book_. By Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt
(Lady Green). Illustrations by Fish. Greenery Press, 3739 Balboa
Ave., #195, San Francisco, CA 94121. (415) 752-3700. 1995.
_Echoes From the Sanctuary_
Published by Essemian Press, Service of Mankind Church, PO
Box 1335, El Cerrito, CA 94530. Monthly newsletter of the SMC.
The Eclectic Connection
Books, magazines and catalogs. International emphasis. 5350
North Boradway, Suite 163, Chicago IL 60640.
Ehrenreich, Barbara
"The Lust Frontier: From Tupperware to Sadomasochism."
Found in _Remaking Love: The Feminization of Sex_, edited by
Barbara Ehrenreich, New York, Anchor Press/Doubleday, 1986,
p.119-. [MB]
_The English Governess_
The author is anonymous. New York, Masquerade Books, Inc.,
c 1990. 213 pages. ISBN: 1-878320-43-2. Price: $4.95 US. Fiction.
Comments: [MB]
_The English Palace_
America's Premiere B&D/S&M BBS (908)739-1755 80 lines,
13.5 Gigs on-line, 65,000+ Files, Chat, Forums. Full Internet
Connectivity : Telnet to Palace.com, or 199.171.54.2, Nationwide
Local calling numbers.
Erotika Bleu Creations. 545 Eigth Avenue, Ste 401, Dept: Pro1, New
York, NY 10018. BDSM T Shirts.
Eros Comix
Eros Comix, PO Box 25070, Seattle WA 98125-1970.
Publisher of such delightful adult comics as Molly Kiely's _Diary of a
Dominatrix_, Justine Blanco's _Stiletto - Adventures in Discipline_,
and _Submissive Suzanne_, etc.. [MB]
_Esencia S/M_
Ediciones P.L.G., Apartado de Correos 7053, Madrid 28080,
Spain. Spanish language. *It is an interesting magazine because it is
non commercial, made by BDSM lovers for BDSM lovers.* [Sal]
_The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter_
Published by the Eulenspiegel Society, TES, PO Box 2783, New
York, NY 10163-2783. Phone: (212) 388-7022. TES founded in
1971. Quarterly newsletter. Price: $35.00 per year US. Artwork,
personal ads, club news, local events, resources, commercial ads,
informative short articles. Pan sexual SM D/s. Retitled "Promethus"
in 1994. Outstanding B&W illustrations, graphics, and BDSM
artwork. [MB]
Executive Imports International
Distributor of many Femdom glossy magazines, paperbacks, and
videos. Write for catalog to: Executive Imports Int'l, Suite 1102, 210
Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10010. They also market some fetish-fashion, TV, crossdresser, and male Dom items. [SP]
Fantastic Books Publications
Fantastic Books, P.O. Box 34, Amityville, NY 11701-0034.
Phone: (516) 753-2677. FAX: (516) 753-2423. They publish and
distribute Fem Dom - male sub publications like _Capitualtion_,
_Leg Tease_, and _Corporal_. They also publish and/or distirbute
dozens of pocket books (Fem subs) and glossy magazines on similiar
themes. They distribute dozens of amateur and pro videos from $29 to
$59. Female and male models. [MB]
_Fantasy Fashion Digest_
Publisher/Editor: David Jackson. Published by Strictly Speaking
Pub. Co., Diversicor, Inc.: Fantasy Fashion Digest, P.O. Box 9500,
Palm Springs, CA 92263. (619) 363-6434. Comments: Started in
1993. Hopes to become a quarterly magazine. Glossy, B&W and
Color photos. Current sources for fetish clothing in rubber, leather,
and other fabrics. [SP]
_Fantasy Island Innovations Catalog_
The Ultimate in Adult Playroom Accessories. Offered by
Fantasy Island Innovations, Inc., 1304 SW 160th Ave., #128, Sunrise,
Florida 33326. 305-452-5988. 800-785-9955. A very nice 52 page
catalog with all the toys and tools the playful or serious BDSM players
will ever need. Leather gear for ladies and gents. [MB]
_The FDMC Society_
Write to this organization at: The FDMC Society, PO Box 3284,
Warminster, PA 18974. Or EMail to: an98268@anon.penet.fi .
Refer to asfd FAQ.
_Female Supremacy_
Tiffany Entertainment, 3333 Veterans Highway, Suite 541,
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779. Monthly newspaper. Price: $35.00 per
year.
_Feminine Illusion_
"Feminine Illusion" is the fourth monthly newspaper published
by Sandy York and New Esoteric Press. *It is like the others in style
and format, but the emphasis is entirely on forced TV.* [Peter G.]
_Femsupremacy Mail List_
Maintained and coordinated by Dee Ann LeBlanc and Robert J.
LeBlanc. To subscribe: femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com.
There is a digest version of the Femsupremacy list, which can be
subscribed to via the usual methods, by emailing to:
femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com. For other information
write to: rjl@renaissoft.com. The LeBlanc's provide an archive service
which inludes news articles, informative articles, fiction, resource
guides, and biographies. They have also had their books published,
e.g., Eudora. [SP]
_The FEMINA Society_
The FEMINA Society, Ms. Charlene Deering, P.O. Box 382,
Augusta, ME 04330, USA. Ms. Deering is starting a lifestyle femdom
forum on the BBS Dark Chateau (darkchat.com). My information
came from Patty at pooch@palace.com. The FEMINA Society offers a
wide array of essays, pamphlets, books, conferences, newsletters,
bibliographies, and instructional materials for Female Dominas and
male submissives enrolled in their formal educational program, the
FEMINA Society School. Communication formats include hard copy
print, electronic formats, email, and audiotapes. The FEMINA Society
espouses a complex Doctrine of Female Supremacy, Matriarchial
values and leadership, Goddess worship (Tantric, Wicca, Stone-Bronze
Age, New Age), total male subservience to Dominas, anti-patriarchal
theory and history, and general Womens' Movement topics. The
Society provides networking, education, training, and research
functions. A strong emphasis is given to training the male to be
respectful, submissive, obedient, and totally devoted to serving a
Superior Domina in daily life. Little emphasis given to "male" SM
B&D fantasies and kinky role-playing. Substantial training and support
for married couples wanting to make worshipping and serving the
Superior Female the top priority. Their Female Supremacy political
tenets and historical viewpoints were often a controversial flamewar
topic on alt.sex.femdom in 1994; and, even [MB] and [SP] don't agree
about this important group. [SP]
Ferstman, Carla
_The Castration of Oedipus: Psychoanalysis, Postmodernism,
and Feminism_. By Carla Ferstman and J.C. Smith. New York
University Press, c 1995.
_Fetish Factory_
Retail store specializing in Latex Clothing and Fetish
Accessories. 821 N. Federal Highway, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33304.
(305) 462-0032.
_Fetish Factory_
Alternative lifestyles from around the world: contact magazines,
fetish novels and novelettes, fetish magazines, adult newspapers,
shopper's guides, and adult merchandise catalog. Dominant
Publications, 601-1755 Robson St., Vancouver BC V 6G 3B7.
_Fetish Times_
A magazine that regularly publishes femdom fiction and features.
Address: Fetish Times, BCM Box 9253, London,
WC1N 3XX. Web page is at: http://www.erotica.co.uk/ft/ft001.htm.
The Reviews Editor, Pan Pantziarka [PP], can be reached by email at
pan@cix.compulink.co.uk.
_Fetish World_
Published by New Esoteric Press, P.O. Box 30689, JFK Station,
Jamaica, NY 11430. A monthly newspaper. Editor: Sandy York.
Price: $36.00 for 12 issues US. Comments: Similar to _Dominant
Mystique_. A slightly wider emphasis including more cross dressing,
infantilism, and foot worship. [MB]
_Finding Your Dominant Woman_
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737,
Brington, MA 02135. 19 pages. Author John Warren. Price: $5.00
US. [MB]
Flanagan, Bob
_Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist_. San Francisco, Re/Search
Publications, c 1993. 125 B&W photos and illustrations, 128 pages.
ISBN: 0-940642-25-5. Price: $ 15.00 US. Comments: Bob and his
Dominant Wife, Mistress Sheree Rose, tell their story. Includes
interviews, artwork, poetry, and many photographs of serious SM
scenes. Mistress Sheree took all the very graphic documentary
photographs used in this book. Their unique loving D/s relationship,
Bob's sexual-spiritual transformation within the drama of his very poor
health, and their SM artistic creativity make for a memorable book. A
book for advanced SM D/s players. Sheree Rose was also interviewed
by Andrea Juno in the book "Modern Primitives" (RESearch Pubs., c
1989), pp. 109-113. A (9/94) post to A.S.B cited an upcoming art
exhibit in New York by Bob Flanagan. Unfortunately, Bob died on
1/4/96 in Los Angeles. He was 43 when he died of cystic fybrosis.
[SP]
Flint, David
"Hollywood Babylon." _Skin Two_, Issue 16, 1995, pp. 52-59.
Francis R. [FR]
Francis sends me [MB] brief notes on Fem Dom BDSM sources
in classical, medieval and modern literature. He would be a very good
resource person on this topic. He can be reached by email:
an60355@anon.penet.fi. I have included references to his sources in
the subject index under [FR]. Examples of his work:
Lautreamont's "Les Chants de Maldoror", fourth Chant,
third Strophe: for having refused to conjoin with his
mother, a man is hung by his hair for three days, then
tarred and beaten with leaden whips by her and by his
wife.
French, Sara H.
_Master of Timberland_. (1992) _Return to Timeberland_.
(1995) Masquerade, $5.95 each.
Friday, Nancy
_Women on Top_. Simon and Schuster, Pocket Books, NY, c
1993. ISBN: 0-671-64845-4. Price: $5.99 US. A bestseller with
surprisingly graphic "fantasies."
_La Fuente de Jade_
A collection of erotic literature (published by Alcor) with
femdom titles: El Nido de la Oropendola, La Institutriz inglesa,
Eveline. [Sal]
_Future Sex_
Future Sex Magazine, P.O. Box 31129, San Francisco, CA
94131-9935. 4 issues for $18.00. Comments: A cutting edge
magazine on a wide variety of sex topics. Editor: Lisa Palac. Lots of
reviews of videos, books, CDs, software, zines. News and
information. Internet notes. Wonderful photographs, artwork, and
layout. [SP]
Gamman, Lorraine
_Female Fetishism_. By Lorraine Gamman and Merja
Makinen. Lawrence & Wishart, circa 1993. Comments: Examines all
the popular theories about fetishism.
_Get Kinky_
A bimonthly kinky magazine from Modern Products, 1007
Murfreesboro Rd., Ste. 115-155 Nashville, TN 37217-1516. 6 issues
for $29.95. Includes fiction, personals, clubs, artwork, and
instructional materials.
Godek, Gregory J. P.
_1,001 Ways to Be Romantic_. A handbook for men, and a
Godsend to Women. Weymouth, MA, Casablanca Press, Inc., c 1993.
270 pages. ISBN: 0-9629803-0-7. Price: $11.95 US. Comments:
Practical suggestions, ideas, techniques, and tips for making romance
blossom and bloom in the lives of lovers. Special emphasis on helping
men become more attentive, considerate, and creative in displaying
their appreciation for the Lady in their life; althought nearly all the
ideas could also work the other way. The author has also written
_1,001 More Ways to Be Romantic_. [MB]
Good Vibrations Mail Order Catalogs
The Good Vibrations mail order catalogs feature vibrators,
harnesses, dildos, light SM equipment, books, videos, and related sex
aids and toys. The Sexuality Library catalog features many fiction and
nonfiction items. They also publish accurate sex information as the
Down There Press. Order from: Open Enterprises, Inc., Good
Vibrations Mail Order, 938 Howard Street, Ste. 101, San Francisco,
CA 94103. Phone: 1-800-289-8423 or (415) 974-8990. Founded in
1977. A cooperative founded and largely run by women. [MB]
_Goddess_
Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO Box
122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine.
Comments: Related to _Riding Cult_ and _Cruella_ from R_H; and
these three share the same models. [MB]
_The Governess_
The Journal of the Alice Kerr-Southerland Society. Irregular.
Issue 6, Summer 1994. 64 pages. Short articles, letters, illustrations,
b&w photos, and some commercial ads. 6"x8.5". Comments:
Demanding and confident Women administer corporal punishment to
boys, girls and men. To join the AK-S Society write: The Hon. Sec.,
The A.K.S.S., Box 12, Hastings, East Sussex, England. [SP]
Greene, Caroline
_S-M: The Last Taboo_. By Caroline and Gerald Green. New
York, Ballantine Books, 1974, 1978. First published by Grove Press,
Inc., 1974. ISBN: 0-345-27160-2. 345 pages. Includes some poetry
and fiction, e.g., Harriett Marwood, Governess, in the appendices of
the book. Makes extensive efforts to distinguish between consensual
SM and violent criminal sadism. A strong British emphasis. A
landmark work. [MB]
_Greenery_
Lady Green's Newsletter for Women and Men Exploring Female
Domination. Lady Green, 3739 Balboa Avenue #195, San Francisco,
CA 94121. Quarterly newsletter. Price: $8.00 per year US.
Greta X
_There's a Whip In My Valise_, Delectus Books, 1996, ISBN
1897767129. *A reprint of an Olympia Press original. The story of
how one man comes to suffer the cruel domination of six Mistresses!*
[PP].
Griffon, Aarona
_Passage and Other Stories_. Rosebud, reprinted 1994, $4.95.
_Hair To Stay_
The magazine for people who love natural, hairy women.
Winter Publishing, PO Box 80667, So. Dartmouth, 02748.
Heartwood, Janet
Heartwood Whips of Passion _Whip Catalog_. 412 N. Coast
Highway #210, Laguna Beach, CA 92651. (714) 376-9558.
Outstanding quality whips, cats, floggers, flat braids.
Henkin, William
"Erotic Power Play." By William A. Henkin and Sybil Holiday.
_Sandmutopia Guardian_, Part I in Issue Nine, 1991, pp. 9-12; Part II
in Issue Ten, 1992, pp. 5-10.
iii
_In Step_
A monthly newspaper for those who love to worship the Female
foot. Published by Tri D Enterprises, DBA IN STEP, P.O. Box 386,
Walnut, California, 91788. Volume 4, Issue #8, out in August, 1994.
Price: $32.00 Annual US. Comments: Billed as the "Foot Lovers
Dream." Stories about trampling, crushing, tickling, and foot worship
galore. Includes photos, ads, and personals. [MB]
Jaffe, Deborah
_MSR: Master/Slave Relationship Audio Recordings_.
Available from P.O. Box 191211, San Francisco, CA 94119-1211.
Deborah Jaffe continues to produce music combining synthesizers,
drums, and vocals. Her themes include lust, S/M, bondage, evil,
anarchy, and violence. Her many titles include: Bed of Perverse
Dreams, Being Led Around by the Tongue, Blue Faced Lust, Captive
Heart, The Love of a Saint (Darkness), Soundtrack to Black Leather
Bondage, Throwing It to the Wind, and others. She has a new
interactive fetish CD called "Smut Picture Racket." She has a web
page now. [SP]
Jellinghaus, Rob
_Alt.Sex.Bondage FAQ_. Edited by robj@unreal.com. The
alt.sex.bondage FAQ is posted around the 11th of month. It consists
of 3 Parts: Pt. 1 - 1337 lines, Pt. 2 - 953 lines, Pt. 3 - 1105 lines. From:
robj@unreal.com Rob Jellinghaus). Date: 11/14/94. Last revised on
9/11/94. This document can be found at at number of locations on the
Net. Rob suggests: http: www.unreal.com/adult/asb/faq.htm. You can
also get to Rob at http://www.best.com/~robj. [MB]
JK Personal Products
PO Box 13383, Scottsdale, AZ 85267-3383. All the products
that adult babies need.
Kelly, Minx
_Vatican Revue #001_. A 29K bibliography with some
annotations and many brief blurbs for lots of BDSM fiction titles.
Female and male Dom titles reviewed. Prepared 11/1/93. Found in
gopher tpe.ncm.com.
Kerr-Sutherland, Alice (1870-1939)
_A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen_. By A Lady,
most probably Alice Kerr-Sutherland. Subtitle: The Successful
Administration of Physical Discipline to Males, by Females. With
illustrations by a former pupil, probably Gerald Hamer - the original
publisher. Reprinted from the original Private Edition of 1924.
London, Delectus Books, c 1994. 113 pages. Price: $34.95 US.
ISBN: 1897767 05 6. Comments: See the entry under "The
Governess" for information about the Alice Kerr-Sutherland Society.
A sophisticated guide to the stylish art of Dominant Women
disciplining boys and gentlemen. Lots of rules for the good and proper
behavior of sumbissive boys. Rituals and techinques for effective
corporal punishment. The role of Aphrodite Philomastirx, Our Lady of
the Scourge, as Nurse, Mistress and Dame. In the delightful, urbane,
British style. [SP]
_Kinky People, Places and Things_
A magazine published six times a year by DM International,
P.O. Box 99770, Seattle, WA 98199 USA. Comments: Contains
B&W photos, drawings, short informative articles, organization
listings, reviews, S/M news, ads, and a very larger number of personal
ads for contacts. Emphasis upon northwestern USA and Canada. Lots
of Femme Dom. See also "Bitches With Whips." [SP]
Klaw, Irving
According to Fritz Peronius (11/5/95), you can obtain
photographs and videos of a few films by Irving Klaw from Movie Star
News, 134 W. 18th Street, NY, NY 10011; 1-800-555-1212. Lots of
1950's bondage photos, e.g., Betty Page posing as a FemDom Top,
among others.
Kossmann, Alfred
_Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, Martyr For a Day-Dream_.
[Publication details uncertain. 1959. The only solid reference I have is
in Dutch: "Martelaar voor een dagdroom: over leven en werk van
Leopold von Sacher-Masoch", Amsterdam, Querido, 1970.]
Comments: extensive bibliographical and biographical study on
Sacher-Masoch. [FR]
Kroll, Eric
_Fetish Girls_. Hardbound artbook. 200 pages with half in
color. Price: $25.00 US. Source: Lucifer's Armory, 874 Broadway,
Suite 808, New York, NY 10003.
Lady Green
_The Sexually Dominant Woman: A Workbook For Nervous
Beginners_. By Lady Green, 1992. Available from Lady Green, 3739
Balboa Avenue #195, San Francisco, CA 94121. Paperbound, 57
pages. Comments: A tender hearted introduction to playful SM loving
for hets. Informative introduction for beginning Fem Dommes. Lady
Green is an outstanding and regular contributor to alt.sex.femdon and
other newsgroups. [MB]
Lady Laura
Artwork and portraits to your specs. P.O. Box 117, Runnemede,
NJ 08078. Sub4Rusty@aol.com.
Lady Tanith
_A Tangled Web: The Art of Slavery_. A Training Manual for
Mistresses, Masters and slaves. Version 1.1. From Lady Tanith, P.O.
Box 7925, Berkeley, CA 94707-0925. (415) 234-7887. Contains a
section on S&M Resources, pp. 23-32. Spiral bound manuscript of 32
pages. Lady Tanith has also published _S/M: A Player's Handbook_,
and _Fantascenes_. [MB]
_LBW Magazine_
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine. Fact, Fiction and
Fantasy in support of the Female-Dominant Lifestyle. 3140-B West
Tighman St. #139, Allentown, PA 18104. Editrix: Mistress Lisa;
Associate: Mistress Sophia; Design: Andreas Mann. Internet:
lbwl@aol.com. Published quarterly, $25.00 per year. Comments:
Includes interviews, short articles, stories, reviews of books and films,
quality B&W photos and graphics, nice layout, news about events and
resources, tips on Internet options, personal ads, commercial ads, and
BBS information. Associated with Popular Emotion BBS 215-386-9333. East Coast emphasis. A nice blend of perspectives from some
sophisticated BDSM enthusiasts dedicated to Female Dominance.
[MB]
_Leatherfolk: Radical Sex, People, Politics, and Practice_.
Edited by Mark Thompson. Alyson Publications, Inc., 40
Plympton Street, Boston, MA., 1991. B&W photographs,
bibliography, xx, 328 pages. Contains short biographies of the
contributors. ISBN: 1-55583-187-7. [SP]
_Leather Links_
Leather Links - Celebrating the Dominant Female. Monthly
newspaper. Price: $25.00 per year. Published by B&D Pleasures, Bill
and Debbie Majors Enterprises, PO Box 92889, Long Beach, CA
90809-2889. B&D Majors Enterprises offers a confidential photo lab
service. They can be reached at (310) 631-1600; or via the Internet at
bill.majors@hedonism.com.
Leda Productions
Leda female dominant videos. Leda Productions, PO Box 632,
San Marcos, CA 92079-0632. Phone: (619) 630-0737. Two dozen or
more video titles that feature women in a variety of clothing and
settings who are into spanking, face slapping, caning, strapping, and
otherwise dominating masochistic men. Some real hard core spanking
and whipping scenes. Price range: $69-$99. Also connected with Nu-West/Leda, PO Box 35, San Marcos, CA 92079; in distributing and
producing catalogs, pamphlets, audiotapes, and titles such as _Ma'am_
and _International Discipline Review_ magazines. [SP]
Le Fel, Marie-France
_Petit Dictionnaire historique et pratique de la domination et du
sadisme des femmes_. Paris, Robert Laffont, 1981. 280 pages. ISBN
2-221-00703-4. Comments: Encyclopedic dictionary of historical
antecedents and legends involving feminine domination and cruelty.
[FR]
_Leg Show_
Leg Show is published by the Mavety Media Group,Ltd, 462
Broadway, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10013. It is sold on many news
stands nationally. *Is rather soft porn, but totally dedicated to Female
domination of the male via seduction and coerced/controlled
masturbation.* [Peter G.]
_The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual_.
Edited by Pat Califia. Lace Publications, an imprint of Alyson
Publications, Boston, MA, 1988. 76 pages. ISBN: 1-55583-301-2.
Price: $ 10.00 US. Comments: [MB]
Love, Brenda
_The Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices_. Fort Lee, New
Jersey, Barricade Books, Inc., 1992. 150 B&W illustrations, 750
entries, bibliography (pp. 317-326), index, glossary, list of suppliers,
336 pages. ISBN: 0-942637-64-X. Price: $ 29.95 US. Now available
in paperback. Comments: A first rate reference work. Very good
cross references and source documentation. Basic information about
just about every type of obscure and creative sex play. [MB]
_Love's Illusion_.
The author is anonymous. Published by Masquerade Books,
New York, c 1989. 202 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-100-4. Price: $4.95
US. Comments: [MB].
Luther, Jeanette
_Tied Up With Love: The Making of Mistress Antoinette_.
Available from Versatile Fashions, PO Box 1051, Tustin CA 92681.
131 pages. Price: $14.95 US.
_Ma'am_
Published by London Enterprises Limited and distributed by
Lyndon Distributors Limited, 15756 Arminta Street, Van Nuys, CA
91406. Irregular publication. Female Dominance of submissive males.
Lots of spanking and caning by conventionally dressed Ladies. Issue
#6 dated December, 1992. Available from Shadow Lane, and Nu-West/Leda. [MB]
Malatesta, Louise
_The Queen of the Grove, and Other Tales_ Illustrations by
Sardax. London, Chardmore Press, Tim Woodward Pub., LTD, c
1993. Short stories and poems about the disciplinary role of the
Female as wife, mother, stepmother, schoolmistress, governess,
nannies, etc.. Studies of the English "Disciplinary Woman" with whip
or cane in hand. 155 pages. ISBN: 0-9518268-3-2. Price: ? US.
Printed in Great Britain. Comments: [MB]
Marcus, Maria
_A Taste For Pain: On Masochism and Female Sexuality_
Translated from the Danish by Joan Tate. New York, St. Martin's
Press, 1981. 267 pages. ISBN: 0-312-78619-0. Comments: A quasi
autobiographical study of the feelings, thoughts, and lifestyle issues
facing a masochistic woman who is also a serious feminist. Set in the
European scene. [SP]
_Masochism_
New York, Zone Books, 1991. 293 pages. ISBN: 0-942299-55-8. Translated by Jean McNeil. Contains "Coldness and Cruelty"
by Gilles Deleuze, and the complete text of the work "Venus in Furs"
by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Price: $ 13.50 US. Comments: The
paper, printing, and cover of this book are outstanding. Our favorite
version of The Venus, "Venus im Pelz, 1870." The very sophisticated
and insightful essay by Gilles Deleuze that will be difficult reading for
most. [MB]
McClintock, Anne
"Maid to Order." _Skin Two_, Issue 14, 1993, pp. 70-77.
Includes short bibliography. Provides an analysis of SM and gender
powers, abridged from _Dirty Looks_, and insightfully handles the
topics of SM and sexology, the domestic slave, the dirt fetish, the
policing of SM, the right to punish, and SM as a Theatre of Risk. [SP]
_Men Under Control_
A bimonthly periodical. Published by CF Publications, Box
706EU, E. Setauket, NY 11733. A six issue subscription for $60, and
single issues for $12.50. A periodical dedicated to dominant women
and the men they spank. [SP]
Miller, Philip
_Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and
Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism_. By Philip Miller and Molly
Devon. Mystic Rose Books, c 1995, Dept L., P.O. Box 1036/SMS,
Fairfied, CT 06432. $28.70, 271 pages, 225 photos and illustrations.
Both writers are experienced BDSM players. Safety, fun,
relationships, fantasy and game playing, explanations, resources,
techniques .... [SP]
_Mistress 4U_
Stories, photos, personal ads. PRO-MO, PO Box 7007,
Phillipsburg, NJ 08865.
Mistress Blanca and Peter
_Pointer to Sex Info on the Net_ (PtSIotN) Prepared by
Mistress Blanca and Peter (Green Way) at viaverde@ix.netcom.com.
Version 4.8, 5/1/96, 90K, c 1994-1996. A detailed subject index and
title list of **sexually oriented** (SexO) newsgroups, mail lists, IRCs,
FAQs, some WWW Pages, Gophers, archives, BBSes, resource
guides, bibliographies, sources and tools on or about SexO on the
Internet. Updated and posted to alt.sex on the 1st of each month.
Moderator approved (2/12/95) for posting to news.answers and
alt.answers. This file (PtSIotN) is located for downloading at many
places on the Net; try: http://www.viaverde.com/sex/. [MB]
Mistress Blanca and Peter
_Subject Index to Sex Info on the Net_. Prepared by Mistress
Blanca and Peter (Green Way) at viaverde@netcom.com. Version 4.8,
5/1/96, c 1996. This document consists of Section 3 of _Pointer to Sex
Info on the Net_. It is a detailed subject index to the **sexually
oriented** (SexO) newsgroups, mail lists, IRCs, gophers, some FTP
sites, archives and selected WWW Pages on or about SexO
information on the Internet. Updated and posted to
alt.sex.erotica.marketplace on the 12 and 24th of each month. We are
developing html versions of this document, to be distributed by email
or a mail list. This file is available for downloading at many places on
the Internet; try http://www.viaverde.com/sex/. [MB]
Mistress Clare
Write to Ms. C, Box 15, Station A, Etobicoke, ONT M9C2V3
Canada. She has a collection of erotic writings in her Strictly Stories
Catalog. She also publishes the newsletter _subCULTURE_. Rather
expensive, but well written stories. Her long story `The Swiss
Finishing School' ran in four "Bitches With Whips" issues recently
93/94. [SP]
Mistress Cybelle
"Professional Dominance: Thoughts for Female Dominants (and
their clients)." from _Sandmutopia Guardian_, Issue 13, pp 6-10.
Mistress Jacqueline
_Whips and Kisses: Parting the Leather Curtain_ As told to C.
Tavel and R.H. Rimmer. Prometheus Books, c 1991. ISBN: 0-87975-656-X. 237 pages. Comments: A housewife turned professional
Dominatrix tells her story of SM encounters. [SP]
Mistress Leah LaFleur
Miscellaneous Writings. Short essays were readily available by
mail from the professional Dominatrix Leah LaFleur in 1993. Write to
Ms. Leah LaFleur, 2005 Palo Verde Ave. Ste. #214, Long Beach, CA
90815-3399. Mistress La Fleur offers manuscripts, audiotapes, and
videocassettes. [SP]
Mistress Leah LaFleur
_Houseboy_. A lazy chauvinist pig is transformed into an
odedient slave and lap dog by a domineering Lady in Command.
Inludes some photos and artwork.
Mistress Nan
_My Private Life: Real Experiences of a Dominant Woman_.
Written by Mistress Nan (tirant@aol.com). Daedalus Publishing Co.,
584 Castro Street, Suite 518, San Francisco CA 94114, c 1995.
$14.95 paperback in U.S.A.. 196 pages. ISBN: 1-881943-11-9.
Foreward by Race Bannon. Edited by Joseph Bean. Mistress Nan has
also made tapes for Shadow Lane. Erotic stories based on a few of the
many real life experiences and many erotic BDSM sessions of Mistress
Nan, alone or with other Tops. Mistress Nin dominates both
submissives and masochists, both male and female. She has a hearty
appetite for the unique and powerfully sensual. Very nicely written
scenes that are sure to provide excellent examples of this Dominant
Woman's keen style and insight as well as arouse even jaded readers.
Mistress Nan also tells about her own background, her own coming out
into BDSM, her husband's long term interest in the subject, and her
own excitement and interests in BDSM. Mistress Nan seems to
stylishly combine professional, family, social and sensual lives to live
life to the fullest. The most erotic nonfiction title from the Daedalus
Publishing Company. We liked reading the Top's point of view, and
the bisexual orientation and tales of adventure. [SP]
Mistress Sandy
Various video's featuring Female Dominants spanking, teasing,
humiliating, disciplining, and bedding bad boys. Send for information:
Mistress Sandy, 2219 Thousand Oaks Blvd., #149, Thousand Oaks,
CA 91362.
_Mrs. Silk_
*Mrs. Silk is a magazine published in the UK based upon
FemDom and training of the TV maid. Glossy, polished, but
expensive ($20.00). Address: http://www.gpld.net:80/users/av73.
Or e-mail: Silk@cityscape.co.uk.* [Peter G.]
Nash, Elizabeth
_Plaisirs d'Amour: An Erotic Guide to the Senses_. San
Franscisco, Harper, Harper Collins Publishers, c 1995. First Edition,
192 pages. Over 200 high quality illustrations. $20.00 U.S.. ISBN: 0-06-251149-1. Comments: About erotic sensuality and not about
BDSM; but BDSM is another an erotic sensuality style. [SP]
Nu-West/Leda Productions
PO Box 35, San Marcos, CA 92079. Producers and distributors
of Fem Dom spanking and fetish videos, audiotapes, magazines, and
catalogs. See Leda Productions. [MB]
_O_
Similar to _Skin Two_. Publication discontinued in 1993 due to
financial and other problems of Peter Czernich and Petra Roth. High
quality BDSM/fetish art magazine.
Oakgrove, Artemis
_The Raging Peace, Dreams of Vengeance, and Throne of
Council_. Boston: Lace/Alyson Publications, c 1984.
Olympia Publishing
(UK) Ltd., 36 Union Street, Ryde, Isle of Wight, PO33 2LE,
UK.
_Orb & Scepter_
Write to this organization at: Orb & Scepter, 252 Convention
Center Dr., Suite 483, Las Vegas, NV 89102. Phone: (702) 251-7201
(24-hour recorded information). The Queen and Her devoted princes
will show the pathway to Women and men seeking to right the wrongs
of the patriarchal disorders. Actually, quite romantic and powerful!
[MB]
_Our Girls_
A crossdressers magazine by Mistress Lisa and Bobbi. Bobbi
Swan, bobbiswan@aol.com. *Changed name to "My Way" in 1995,
per Peter G. A noncommercial zine.
Paglia, Camille
_Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence From Nefertiti To Emily
Dickinson_. Vintage Books, Random House, Reprint of Yale
University Press book, 1990. xiv, 718 pages, index, notes. ISBN: 0-679-73579-8. [MB]
_Passion: Our Leather Soul_
Glossy FemDom magazine with articles, stories, and photos
(color and B&W). Published by Mistress Diamond at DIAMOND,
8280 James Ave., Ste. 54A, Woodridge, IL, 60517. [MB]
_The Petticoat Dominant_
Anonymous. Delectus Books, 1994, ISBN 1897767021.
* A young English aristocrat is brought swiftly to heel by a young
French governess. Another Delectus reprint of a Victorian
original.* [PP]
Pharaoh Publishing
Goddes or Domina videotape series. Pharaoh Publishing, P.O.
Box 20 Hengoed, CF8 7YB (UK).
_Pleasure and Danger: Exploring Female Sexuality_.
Edited by Carole S. Vance. London, Routledge & Kegan Paul,
1984.
Polhemus, Ted
_Rituals of Love: Sexual Experiments, Erotic Possibilities_.
Essays by Ted Polhemus; interviews and photographs by Housk
Randall. London, Picador, 1995, $25.95. Essays, interviews, and
photographs of people in the S/M scene in London. [SP]
_The Powers of Desire: The Politics of Sexuality_.
Edited by Ann Snitow, Christine Stansell and Sharon Thompson.
New York, Monthly Review Press, 1983.
Prezwalski, Jim
_The Kiss of the Whip: Explorations in S/M_. Leyland, c 1995,
$15.95.
Princess Sheeba
_The Dream Land Series_. Stylish erotic drawings on cards.
Order from Princess Sheeba, P.O. Box 664, Beaconsfield, P.Q.,
Canada H9W 5V3. Set of 12 cards: 2 cards of either 6 Dom or 6 sub
women, $25.00. Princess Sheeba is a fashion designer and a
successful artist and craftsperson while active in the scene. Her
articles appear in a variety of BDSM publications.
_QSM Newsletter_
P.O. Box 882242, San Francisco, CA 94188. For information
call Karen Mendelsohn, (415) 550-7776. One newsletter provides
information on classes, workshops, and seminars offered by QSM on
radical sexuality in the San Francisco area. The second newsletter
provides information about books, magazines, and sources for services
and information. They produce an *outstanding* 16 page mail order
BDSM catalog, and offer a very good mail order service. [SP]
"Redemption Videos"
A collection of Sado-Vampiric classics distributed by Ritual
World, 298 Brewer Street, London W1R 3FE. Titles include: Venus in
Furs, La Vampire Nue, Succubus, Valerie, etc..
_Riding Cult_
Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO Box
122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine.
Comments: Lots of beautiful women on horseback in fetish attire as
the cover crows: Leather, Rubber, PVC, Whips, Spurs, High Heels ...
Devoted to the Dominant Female. A Cruella Fantasy Special. Related
to _Goddess_ and _Cruella_ from R_H; and these three share some the
same models. Retail from $12-$16. A naked guy on all fours or a
huge horse, and a Properly Clad and Booted Lady with whip in Hand
that Needs a Ride .... Giddyup! County British Fetish fun Perv! [SP]
_Ritual_
Ritual magazine, 29 Brewer Street, Soho, London W1 3FE.
Irregular. $20.00 per issue. 8.5"x11.5". Glossy magazine, color and
b&w photos, comics, photos of London Perv scene participants,
reviews, extensive commercial ads, creative artwork and layout, and a
few short articles. Primarily a high end fetish art magazine. Another in
the Skin Two or O vein. [SP]
_The Romance of Chastisement_
Facsimile edition published by Delectus Books, London,
England, c1993. "The Romance of Chastisement or, Revelations of
School and Bedroom, by an Expert." ISBN: 1-897767-15-3. 150
pages. Hardcover, $34.95 US. A reprint of a 1876 collection of short
stories, poetry, and high praises to the art of flagellation in the bedroom
and schoolroom. Swinburne would have cheered these revelations and
romantic visions of the delights of the birch rod. For those
intermediate and advanced SM people that enjoy the Mid-Victorian
style. [MB]
Rampling, Ann
_Exit to Eden_. This book was written by Anne Rice.
Dell Publishing/Bantam Doubleday Dell Pub. Group, NY, c 1985. 308
pages. ISBN: 0-440-12392-5. Price: $5.99 US. Comments: Released
as a motion picture in 10/94, directed by Garry Marshall.
_Roses With Thorns_
Quarterly FemDom Zine. P.O. Box 40018, Sarasota, FL 34242-0018.
Rossi, William A.
_The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe_. Malabar, FL, Krieger
Publishing Company, 1993 (Reprint). 265 pages. ISBN
0-89464-573-0.
Ryder, Deborah
_Half Dressed, She Obeyed_. Divine Press, P.O. Box 108,
Stockport, Cheshire, SK1 4DD, England, 1993. Illustrations by Trevor
Brown.
_S&M/B&D Directory_
Prepared by Kathy Tobey, PO Box 86283, Portland, OR 97286.
400 pages with 6,000 listings. $10 for 3.5" disk.
Sacher-Masoch, Leopold, Ritter von, 1836-1895
_Venus in Furs_. Venus in Furs, a novel; includes letters of
Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch and Emilie Mataja. Translated from the
German by Uwe Moeller and Laura Lindgren. Forward By Sylvere
Lotringer. New York, Blast Books, c 1989. 210 pages. ISBN: 0-922233-01-2. Price: $9.95 U.S. Comments: Refer also to the title
"Masochism." Sacher-Mashoch: born 1/27/1836, died 3/9/1895. [SP]
Sacher-Masoch, Wanda von
_The Confessions of Wanda von Sacher-Masoch_. By the wife
of Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. The first English translation by
Marian Phillips, Caroline Hebert, and V. Vale. RESearch Publications,
San Francisco, c 1990. 126 pages. ISBN: 0-940642-23-9. Price:
$13.99 US. Revised, expanded, annotated, and illustrated edition.
Comments: Wanda portrays Leopold as selfish, obsessed, insatiably
masochistic, and unstable; and, herself, as a woman trapped in an
unsatisfactory marriage, forced into a Top's role, and ever protective of
her children. Their frequent periods of poverty, along with Wanda's
being forced into endless sexual intrigues due to her husband's
compulsion to be cuckolded create unsurmountable problems for their
marriage. [MB]
_S.A.D.E._
I.P.R., Escornalbou 6, 08.041 Barcelona, Spain. Spanish
language. *Without any doubt is the best femdom magazine published
in Spain.
Each monthly issue has a contribution of Domina Zara, Spain's most
famous Mistress. SADE has also a club in Barcelona.* [Sal]
Salmansohn, Karen
_How To Make Your Man Behave in 21 Days Or Less, Using
The Secrets Of Professional Dog Trainers_. Workman Publishing, c
1994. 93 pages. ISBN 1-56305-626-7. Price: $8.95 US. Comments:
Funny, but true. Understand his doglike behavior patterns and his
breed type, then treat him like a dog, and make him behave! Finally,
some humorous D/s. Delightful illustrations of man as dog at the feet
of his Mistress. So, "Peter, Come!, Sit!, now Go! Fetch! me another
bourbon and seven. Good boy!" [MB]
_The SandMUtopia Guardian_
The Sandmutopia Guardian & Dungeon Journal. A quarterly
magazine, Published by: The Utopia Network, P.O. Box 1146, New
York, New York 10156, (516) 842-1711 and FAX (516) 842-7518,
Internet siradam@ix.netcom.com. In 1995, Mitch Kessler and Gerrie
Blum took over this publication. Black and white photographs, essays,
informative articles, interviews, ads, classified ads, drawings, resource
guides, bibliographies, and illustrations. Pan-sexual SM D/s emphasis.
Formerly (pre 1995) published by Desmodus, Inc., San Fransicso, CA.
Former publisher Anthony F. DeBlase aka Fledermaus. Managing
editor Fledermaus, Joseph W. Bean. Editor Carol Truscott. In
October, 1992 the new publisher is Martijn Bakker; and the new editor
is Victoria Baker. In 1994, the editor was Pat Califia. The famous
older brother gay SM publication of the SG is "Dungeon Master."
[MB]
Schad-Somers, Suzanne
_Sadomasochism: Etiology and Treatment_. New York, Human
Sciences Press, 1982.
Schlichtegroll, Carl Felix von
_Wanda' ohne Maske und Pelz_. (Wanda' Without Mask and
Furs.) French translation: Paris, Tchou publ., 1968. 255 pages. No
ISBN. Comments: A detailed defense of Sacher-Masoch against his
wife's scurrilous allegations. Many details on their married life and
"Wanda's" (Aurora nee Rumelin) total unworthiness. [FR]
Scott, Gini Graham
_Erotic Power: An Exploration of Dominance and Submission_.
Published by Carol Publishing Group, A Citadel Press Book, NY, c
1983. 257 pages. ISBN: 0-8065-0968-6. $ 10.95 US. Comments: A
sensitive documentary study of the SM D/s scene in and around San
Francisco. Considerable attention given to heterosexual couples and
groups, with a strong emphasis upon Female Domination of submissive
males. Ms. Scott brings insight and understanding into her reporting,
generalizations, and commentary. Important comments on the
activities and members of the Service of Mankind Church. A landmark
work! [MB]
Sellers, Terence
_The Correct Sadist: The Memoirs of Angel Stern_. With
illustrations by Genesis P-Orridge. Brighton, England, Temple Press
Limited, Revised Edition, 1990. First published in 1983 by Vitriol
Pubs., New York. B&W drawings, v, 167 pages. ISBN: 1-871744-45-8. Price: $15.00 US. Now out of print. Comments: A very
insightful and thoughtfully written collection of reflections on SM. A
Sadistic Dominatrix tells about her methods and techniques, her soul
searching, and how she learned to dominate her masochistic clients -
most of whom she seemed to despise. Numerous dialogues between
different scene characters. Interesting collage artwork by GP-O
(interviewed in "Modern Primitives," 1989). An important early work
(1983) by a sophisticated participant, observer and writer. [MB]
_Selecting a Professional Dominatrix_
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737,
Brighton, MA 02135. 19 pages. Price: $5.00. [MB]
Servadio, Gaia
_Histora de R_. Spanish language. *In La Sonrisa Vertical
Collection (Tusquets Editores SA, Iradier 24, bajos. 08017 Barcelona,
Spain). We can consider this novel as a story of O but with a sub
male.* [Sal]
_The Service of Mankind Church_
Write to this organization at: The Service of Mankind Church,
PO Box 1335, El Cerrito, CA 94530. Phone: (510) 874-4974 Hotline,
or (510) 232-1396, Business phone, 10 AM - 7 PM PT. Comments:
See asfd FAQ for comments on SMC. Extensive discussion of SMC in
Gini Scott's 1983 book. Also, you can try: Northeaster Region
Essemian Sanctuary of the Goodess, P.O. Box 281172 East Hartford,
CT 16128-1172, Director: Laura Goodwin, HPs,
LaLaura@ix.netcom.com.
_SF & Fantasy Alternate Sexuality Booklist_
From: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu (Mary Anne). Dated:
2/2/94.
Shellogg, Susan
_Unnatural Acts_. New York, Barricade Books, Inc., c 1994.
254 pages. Price: $21.00 US. ISBN: 1-56980-00006. Comments: A
successful New York professional Dominatrix, Mistress Sonya, tells of
her experiences. [MB].
_Skin Two_
A glossy magazine with high quality color and B&W
photographs, graphic art, short essays, artwork, illustrations,
interviews, cartoons, classified ads, and resource guides.
Publisher/Editor Tim Woodward. Tim Woodward Publishing Ltd.,
BCM Box 2071, London WC1N 3XX. London-European emphasis,
but worldwide in scope. Around 100 pages per issue. Top quality
commentary and articles on the BDSM fetish culture. Outstanding,
highly artistic fetish photography. [SP]
_La Sonrisa Vertical_
*The collection La Sonrisa Vertical (Tusquets Editores) is the best
collection of erotic literature in Spanish. Here we can find many titles,
but, obviously, the most interesting for us are: La Venus de las Pieles,
Historia de O, Senorita Tacones Altos, A los pies de Omphalos, La
iniciacion de R, and Justine.* [Sal]
_Spectator_
California Sex Newsmagazine. 1-800-624-8433.
Spectrum Press
Spectrum Press Inc., 3023 N. Clark Street #109, Chicago, IL
60657. Phone: 1-800-606-1419. Internet: specpress@aol.com. Karen
Olsen. A variety of books (classics, U.S. government, fiction)
available on PC or Mac disk format, and erotica of interest by such
writers as Susan Anders, Jocelyn Joyce, Rachel Perez. There new
URL is http://users.aol.com/specpress/index.html [SP]
Spratacus Publications
*Spartacus Publications, P.O. Box 429, Orange, CA 92666,
puts out a number of FemDom magazines of high quality, with some
major emphasis on FemDom (but not exclusively).* [Peter G.]
_Stand Corrected_
A magazine "Dedicated to the Romance of Discipline."
Published by Shadow Lane, 3960 Laurel Canyon Blvd., Suite 461,
Studio City, CA 91614-3791. Comments: Shadow Lane offers
numerous videotapes, audiotapes, photosets, unbound manuscripts,
books and magazines. They primarily emphasize the spanking of
women by other women or men, but occasionally feature male
spankees. Stand Corrected, Shadow Lane's flagship publication, Issue
12, Spring 1992, offers 64 pages of "elegant spanking erotica": short
stores, cartoons, artwork, ads, clubs, etc.. They also produce the
magazines: Over the Knee, Spank Hard, and The Spank Shoppe.
Quality products aimed at spanking enthusiasts of both sexes. [MB]
Studlar, Gaylyn
_In the Realm of Pleasure: Von Sternberg, Dietrich, and the
Masochistic Aesthetic_. Urbana, Illinois, University of Illinois Press,
1988. Comments: [MB]
Studlar, Gaylyn
`Masochism and the Perverse Pleasures of the Cinema.'
_Movies and Methods_, edited by Bill Nichols, 1985, 2:602-621,
Berkeley and Los Angeles, University of California Press, 1985.
Comments: [MB]
Suffield, Pamela
_Gospel of the Goddess: A Return to God the Mother_. By
Pamela Suffield and William Bond. Illustrations from the Tarot and
Quabalah. New York, Artemis Creations Pub., c 1994. ISBN: 0-9640963-4-X. Price: $19.95 US.
_Sumissa_
Apartado de Correos 747, 41080 Sevilla, Spain. Spanish
language. Bimonthly. *The newest femdom magazine published in
Spain (issue 3 by now).* [Sal]
_Tacones Altos_
Erospress, Muntaner 114 bajos, 08036 Barcelona, Spain.
Spanish language. Color. *The Spanish edition of Leg Show,
published in the USA by Leg Glamour Inc of New York.* [Sal]
_Taste of Latex_
Starting in 1995, this magazine will be published by DM
International, P.O. Box 16188, Seattle WA 98116-0188.
Tan, Cecilia (Editor)
_S/M Futures: Erotica on the Edge_. Circlet Press, c 1995,
$12.95.
Terry, Victor
"Happy S/M Holidays: Gifts For Players." Reviewed by Victor
Terry. _Checkmate 13, Incorporating Dungeon Master_ (November,
1995, pp. 15-19. An excellent summary of recent good books and
videos. Mostly for the S/M gay male, but others also included.
Contact information about BDSM publishers and video makers.
Truscott, Carol
`S/M: Some Questions and a Few Answers.' _Leatherfolk_,
edited by Mark Thompson, 1991, pp. 15-36.
Tusquets Editores SA,
Tusquets Editores SA, Iradier 24, bajos. 08017 Barcelona,
Spain. Spanish language publisher of a number of femdom titles: "La
Srta Tacones Altos" is the Spanish edition of "Miss High-Hells" (Grove
Press, NY) where Helen and her friends mistreat Dennis; "La
institutriz inglesa" (published by Albor in the collection La Fuente de
Jade) is the spanish edition of "Harriet Marwood, Governess" (Grove
Press, NY); "Ceremonia de Mujeres" is the Spanish edition to Jean de
Berg's "Women's Rites: Scenes from the Erotic Imagination" (Grove
Press, NY) wherein a young woman in the BDSM clubs of NY finds
her identity as a Dominatrix. [Sal]
Vera, Diane
`Nine Degrees of Submission. Kinds of Masochism and/or
Submission.' Temporary Consensual `Slave Contract.' _The Lesbian
S/M Safety Manual_, edited by Pat Califia, 1988, pp. 69-76.
Wallace, Gloria
_Welts: Female Domination in An American Marriage_. By
Gloria and Dave Wallace. Published by Fem Supreme Books /Artemis
Creations Publishing, c 1995. (142 pages). $12.95. First person
narratives by Dave and Gloria about their introduction to FemDom; but
the real welts and sweat of S/M erotica are missing.
Ward, Bill
_The Art of Bill Ward_. Text by Bart Keister. Large format
books, English and French text, includes 100 BDSM drawings by Bill
Ward. Imported from France. Titles in this series include:
_Chevrotine_, _Bertha_, and _Pascaline_.
Warren, John
Author of the Mentor Series booklets on how to find and meet
BDSM lovers. Each booklet is 20 to 25 pages. See subject: Personals.
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737, Brington,
MA 02135.
_Women who Administer Punishment (WhAP!).
The magazine for Maternal Disciplinarians and the Men Who
Rever Them. A quarterly magazine from Retro Systems, 1850 Union
Street, Suite 1261, San Francisco, CA 94123. Around 50 pages an
issue. Lots of black and white photos. You might contact Keri
Pentauk (Editor in Chief) at mommysezso@aol.com. Issue #5 out in
3/96. Strong emphasis upon the discipline and control of one's
husband by a Dominant Woman. Discipline includes: spanking,
whipping, strict behavior modification, bondage, sexual submission,
petticoat and crossdressing play, position discipline (e.g., kneeling,
squatting along a wall), diaper and baby play, strict slavery to a
Superior Woman, alternative role playing, obedience training, etc..
Includes both fiction and nonfiction work. Emphasis upon women
dressed in casual or business attire, rather that in the Leather-Perv
styles. These Tops can lay on the leather; so, boy, on your knees. The
magazine includes ads for a variety of printed materials and erotica.
Retro Systems also offers color photo sets, instructional audio tapes,
and home disciplinary correspondence. [MB]
_Wicked Women_
A magazine published by Wicked Women, P.O. Box 305,
Redfern, 2016, Australia. [SP]
Williams, Linda 1946-
_Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible_.
Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 1989. Index (pp. 310-330), Bibliography (297-310), Notes, xii, 330 pages. ISBN: 0-520-06652-9. Chapter 7, pp.184-228, deals with sadomasochistic film
pornography. [MB]
Willows, Claire
_Modern Slaves_, Delectus Books, 1995, ISBN
1897767048. * A reprint of a privately printed book published in the
US in the '30s. The story of a young woman who ends up at a
mysterious Training School in Scotland, and there discovers the strict
discipline of a female house of correction.* [PP]
Wiseman, Jay
`Dungeon Safety For the Professional Mistress: I - III.' From
_Bitches With Whips_, Vol 2 No. 3, Vol 2 No. 4, and Vol 3 No. 1.
Longer articles that deal with recognizing and correcting hazardous
conditions in the dungeon, dealing with medical emergencies, and
dealing with clients. [SP]
Wiseman, Jay
_SM 101: A Realistic Introduction_. A spiralbound text. c
1992. 244 pages. Price: $24.95 US. References, resources, glossary.
Comments: An excellent guide to the basic concepts, psychological
aspects, social concerns, techniques, safety, a tools of erotic SM D/s.
[MB]
Zee, Ona
_Learning the Ropes_. A series of bondage videotapes from
Ona Zee and Francis Wiegers. You can get information via the web at:
http:/www.onazee.com. You can communicate by e-mail with:
ozp@ix.netcom.com (Francis A. Wiegers ). Or, you can write to:
Ona Zee Productions, 13360 Beach Ave., Marina del Rey CA 90292.
_Zeitgeist International_
Semiannual, glossy, color fetish magazine. English language
articles, ads, and news. Quality photographs. Zeitgeist Mail Order: 66
Holloway Road, London N7 8JC. Fax: 071-607-8144. Mail Order by
phone: 071-607-1310.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
INDEX TO THE ABOVE BIBLIOGRAPHY AND RELATED
WORKS
AMAZONS, WARRIOR WOMEN, HEROIC-ATHLETIC WOMEN
alt.amazon-women.admirers
amazons-l (amazons-request@math.uio.no)
ARTISTS, PHOTOGRAPHERS, GRAPHIC ARTISTS, ILLUSTRATORS
Eros Comics.
Guido Crepax.
Lady Laura.
Patrick C.L. McCain
Panasewicz. Las Vegas.
Michael Rosen. San Francisco.
See Also: Periodicals, Illustrated Works
Priscess Sheeba. Dream Land Series. Canada.
Miss Mercy Van Vlack. NY.
aaa
AUDIOTAPES, AUDIO CDs
Alexis Payne interview, Shadow Lane
Femina Society
Jaffe, Deborah
Leda Productions.
Shadow Lane Productions. Eve Howard interviews.
Retro Systems, Women Who Administer Punishment
Wolfe, Catherine. Orb & Scepter.
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, BIOGRAPHICAL AND INTERVIEWS
Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist. Bob Flanagan.
Call Me Mistress. Natalie Rhys.
The Confessions of Wanda von Sacher-Masoch.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
The First Masochist. James Cleugh.
Good Sex. Julia Hutton (Editor).
The House of Pain. Monique Van Cleef.
It's Only a Game. Lindi St. Clair.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson (Editor).
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leda Productions.
Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch. Alfred Kossmann.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
Sadomasochism. Elizabeth Harris.
Skin Two. Magazine.
A Taste For Pain. Maria Marcus.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
Unnatural Acts. Susan Shellogg.
Wanda' Ohne Maske und Pelz. Carl Schlichtegroll.
Welts. Glona and Dave Wallace.
Whips and Kisses. Mistress Jacqueline.
Women on Top. Nancy Friday.
BIBLIOGRAPHIES, REFERENCE WORKS, INDEXES,
POINTERS
Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
FAQ for alt.amazon-women.admirers.
FAQ for alt.sex.bondage. Rob Jellinghaus.
FAQ for alt.sex.femdom. Jay Doubleyou.
Femina Society Book List. Ms. C. - Mistress Infinity
Happy S/M Holidays. Victor Terry.
The Male Masochist. Michael P. Garofalo.
Petit Dictionnaire... Marie-France Le Fel.
Pointer to Sex Info on the Net. Green Way.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
SF & Fantasy Alternate Sexuality Booklist. Mary Anne.
S&M/B&D Directory. Kathy Tobey.
S&M Bibliogrpahy. Graham Barron.
S&M: An Annotated Bibliography. Michael P. Garofalo.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
Vatican Revue #001. Minx Kelley.
BODY MODIFICATION, PIERCING, TATOOING, SCARIFICATION
Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.
BONDAGE, ROPES, CHAINS, DISCIPLINE,
CONFINEMENT,
Learning the Ropes (Video).
Ona Zee Productions: http:/www.onazee.com
See Also Instructional, Equipment, Clothing,
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
BOOKSTORES, MAIL ORDER
Delectus Books, 27 Old Gloucester Street, London, WC1N 3XX.
http://www.erotic-bookshop.co.uk
The Eclectic Connection. Chicago.
Good Vibrations. San Francisco.
Nexus Books, 332 Ladbroke Grove, London W10 5AH, UK
QSM. Http://www.qualitysm.com
SpiceWorks, PO Box 3821, London, N5 1UY, UK.
BOTTOM, SUBMISSIVE, MASOCHIST, SLAVE
The bottoming Book. Dossie Easton and Lady Green
Bound and Gagged magazine.
Masochism. Lyn Cowan.
Metropolitan slave magazine.
S&M 101. Jay Wiseman.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
BULLETIN BOARD SYSTEMS
Amazon Arena BBS, 702-243-7723
Boston Dungeon Society. Telnet BDSBBS.COM
Dark Chateau, Telnet darkchat.com (166.82.150.90)
The English Palace
Lifestyle Online, Telnet lifestyle.com
Popular Emotion BBS. 215-386-9333
See Also: Internet Newsgroups, Internet Directory
CD ROM, COMPUTER SOFTWARE, COMPACT DISK FILES
CyberKinky CD Catalog. Versatile Fashions.
Domin-a-Trics.
Klassy Kinks
Mistress Jacqueline's Dungeon.
Spectrum Press.
CHAT ROOMS, IRC, PANEL DISCUSSIONS
IRC #Dom/Sub, #bdsm
IRC #femdom, #femsuprem, #femina
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.
CHIVALRY, COURTLY LOVE, ROMANTIC RITES AND CUSTOMS
1,001 Ways To Be Romantic. Gregory Godek.
CHRONOLOGICAL LIST: IMPORTANT WORKS, LANDMARK WORKS
1800 Juliette. Marquis de Sade.
1870 Venus In Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch.
1884 Monsieur Venus. Rachilde (Vallette).
1924 A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
1928 Eros: The Meaning of My Life. Edith Cadivec.
1971 Eulenspiegel Society Newletter, now Prometheus
1972 Leatherman's Handbook. Larry Townsend.
1974 S/M: The Last Taboo. Caroline Greene.
1974 The House of Pain. Monique Von Cleef.
1981 Coming To Power. SAMOIS.
1982 Masochism: A Jungian View. Lyn Cowan
1983 Erotic Power. Gini Scott Graham.
1983 The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
1984 Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.
1988 Macho Sluts. Pat Califia.
1988 The Lesbian SM Safety Manual. Pat Califia, Editor.
1989 Sandmutopian Guardian magazine
1990 Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
1991 Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
1992 SM101. Jay Wiseman.
1993 Different Loving. Gloria G. Brame.
1993 Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
1993 Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.
1995 Screw the Roses, Give Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.
CLOTHING, FETISH FASHIONS, LEATHER AND LATEX, BODY
MODIFICATIONS
alt.sex.fetish.fashion
Beyond Leather. Pat Califia.
Body Play. Magazine.
Boot Lover's Digest. Magazine.
Corset (FAQ) by Ms. Margo
Cross Dressing With Dignity. Peggy J. Rudd.
Deva Fetish. Image Art Books.
Divinity. Magazine.
Domina. Magazine.
The Erotic Art of Leone Frollo. Image Art Books.
Fantasy Fashion Digest. Magazine.
Female Fetishism. Lorraine Gamman.
Fetish Factory, Florida.
Fetish Times. Magazine.
Fetish Times (UK). Magazine.
Fetish World. Magazine.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson (Editor).
Leg Tease - Fantastic Books
O. Magazine.
PFIQ. Piercing Fans International Quarterly. Magazine.
Ritual. Magazine.
See Also: Fetishism, Crossdressing
The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe. William A. Rossi.
Skin Two. Magazine.
Stiletto. Magazine.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
TV Connection. Magazine.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antoinette.
Yva Richard. Alexandre Dupouy.
Zeitgeist International. Magazine.
FETISHISM, CLOTHING AND FASHIONS: CHRONOLOGY
1914-1943, Yva Richard, Paris
{{{ How about more references?? }}}
COMMENTARIES, ESSAYS, CRITICISM AND
INTERPRETATION
Against Sadomasochism. R. Linden (Editor).
The Best of Skin Two. Tim Woodward (Editor).
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
The Kiss of the Whip. Jim Prezwalski.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson.
Petit Dictionnaire... Marie-France Le Fel.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.
Rituals of Love. Ted Polhemus.
Sadeian Woman. Angela Carter.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
CROSS DRESSING, PETTICOAT DOMINATION,
TRANSVESTITES
Cross Dressing With Dignity. Peggy J. Rudd.
Feminine Illusion. Periodical.
Fetish World. Magazine.
Mrs. Silk. Periodical.
My Husband Wears My Clothes. Peggy J. Rudd.
My Way (Our Girls). Ezine by bobbiswan@aol.com
The Petticoat Dominant. A.K.S.S. Delctus Books.
TV Connection, DM International, Magazine.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antoinette.
Vested Interests. Marjorie Garber.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.
EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES, STORES, CRAFTS WORKERS,
BOOKSTORES
Adams Whips and Gillian's Toys, The Utopian Network.
Alt.Sex.Bondage FAQ
Alt.Sex.Fetish FAQ
Bondage Catalog by Spartacus.
Caprice Moden, German.
Delectus Books, England.
Demask, Corsetry & Lingerie Catalog, Amsterdam
Draconian Leather by Metz, Janet Metz Hayes, Whips.
Erotika Bleu Creations. T Shirts.
Fantasy Island Innovations Catalog
Fetish Factory, Florida
Fetish Factory, Canada
Geschnurt in Leder, German
Good Vibrations
Jeanette Heartwood, Heartwood Whips of Passion, California.
The Midian Conspiracy, England.
Olympia Publishing, England.
QSM. Karen Mendelsohn.
Rope. Augusta Fury. _Bitches With Whips_ Vol3, No2.
Rubber Catalog, England
Sarah Jones of Lashes by Sarah (San Francisco), Whips.
TFN Research Group, Attitude, GDV, Dianna Vesta.
The Utopian Network, Adams Whips and Gillian's Toys.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antionette.
X-Trem, German.
EUROPEAN SCENE
For sources in German and French, for Mac users, write to Dirk De
Kegel (dekegel@innet.be).
FEMALE SUPREMACY
alt.women.supremacy
Attitude. TFN Research. GDV. Dianna Vesta.
The Femina Society. Organization, publications.
Female Supremacy. Magazine.
Gynarchy Club. Organization.
Orb and Scepter. Organization. Catherine Wolfe.
Roses With Thorns.
FEMINISM, WOMEN'S LIBERATION, WOMEN'S
RIGHTS
Against Sadomasochism. Edited by R. Linden.
alt.society.neutopia
Backlash. Susan Faludi.
Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
Female Sexual Slavery. Kathleen Barry.
The Femina Society.
Femininity and Domination. Sandra Bartky.
Pleasure and Danger. Carole Vance.
Powers of Desire. Ann Sitnow.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
A Taste for Pain. Maria Marcus.
Wildfire. Sonia Johnson.
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.
FETISHISM, PERV-STYLE, LEATHER CULTURE
American Foot Fetish Society
Fetish Times
Hair to Stay.
Leg Show. Newspaper.
Mrs. Silk
The Return of the Female Fetish and the Fiction of
the Phallus. Anne McClintock.
See Also: Clothing, Crossdressing, Illustrated Works,
Periodicals,
Skin Two.
The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe. William Rossi.
Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality. Freud.
FICTION - COLLECTED WORKS
Affinities. Rachel Perez. Masquerade & Spectrum.
By Her Subdued. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
CF Publications.
Coming To Power. Edited by SAMOIS.
Dark Desires. Maria Del Rey.
Daughters of Darkness. Pam Keesey (Editor).
La Domme. Claire Baeder (Editor).
La Fuente de Jade. (Spanish)
Herotica. Susie Bright (Editor).
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leatherwomen II. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
No Other Tribute. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
Passage and Other Stories. Aarona Griffin.
The Pearl. Ballantine Books, Grove Press.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
The Romance of Chastisment.
La Sonrisa Vertical
FICTION - CLASSICS, PRE 19th CENTURY WORKS
Arabian Nights. Nights 147 & 148 (Galland's #). [FR]
Arabian Nights. Nights 170-172 (Galland's #). [FR]
Bible. The Book of Judith.
Confessions. Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
Franklin's Tale from the Canterbury Tales
Juliette. Marquis de Sade.
The Nibelungenlied. (Brunhilde's Refusal.) [FR]
Wife of Bath's Tale from the Canterbury Tales
FICTION - DETECTIVE, MYSTERY, SUSPENSE
The S/M Murder: Murder at Roman Hill. E. Oliver.
The Torquemanda Killer. John Warren.
FICTION - HETEROSEXUAL, FEMDOM-MALESUB, MARRIED HET COUPLES
Afternoons of a Woman of Leisure. Elizabeth Bennett.
The Agency Trilogy. David Meltzer.
The Applicant. Lizabeth Dusseau.
The Black Post Society. Mike Vickers.
Calenture I. dmger@ix.netcom.com (Trystilarn)
Calenture II. dmger@ix.netcom.com (Trystilarn)
Candy Lips. Jocelyn Joyce.
CF Publications.
Cinderella. Titan Beresford.
Courtney. an169860@anon.penet.fi. 12/94.
Debbie's Gift. Sue (thou4@nr.infi.net)
The Delicious Daughter. Paul Little.
Delta of Venus. Anais Nin.
Demon Heat. Jocelyn Joyce.
Dominant Mystique. Magazine.
Domination. Michael Cecilione.
Eleanor's System. Anonymous.
Enter With Trumpets. Helen Henley.
An Excess of Love. Jac Lenders. Grove Press, 1968.
Exit to Eden. Anne Rampling.
Harriet Marwood, Governess. Delectus.
Heart of Desire. Maria Del Rey.
Historia de R. Gaia Servadio.
Houseboy. Mistress Leah LaFleur.
The Iron Lady. R. Pruett.
Love in Wartime. Liesel Kulig.
Love's Illusion. Anonymous.
Making of a Mistress. an75628@anon.penet.fi (Mule)
Miss High Heels. Alizarin Lake.
Monsieur Venus. Rachilde (Vallette). 1884.
My Darling Dominatrix. Grant Antrews.
Nina Foxton. Titian Beresford.
The New Story of O. Anonymous. Blue Moon.
The Obsession. Maria Del Rey.
Protests, Pleasures and Raptures. Anonymous.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
Ring of Steel. Jim Dickson.
Sex on Doctor's Orders. Anonymous.
Sister Radiance. David Aaron Clark.
Submissions. Grant Antrews.
Sweet Retribution. Anonymous.
Telepaths Don't Need Safewords. Cecilia Tan.
Three Women. Jocelyn Joyce.
Thongs. Alexander Trocchi.
Tourniquet. Alice Joannou.
Venus in Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch. 1870.
Wet Forever. David Aaron Clark.
Women's Rites. Jean de Berg.
See Also: Periodicals
FICTION - GOVERNESS, SCHOOLMISTRESS,
HEADMISTRESS
The Blue Rose. Alison Tyler.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen. A Lady.
The Delicious Daughter. Paul Little.
The English Governess. Anonymous.
First Training. Anonymous. Blue Moon.
The Governess. Magazine.
Harriett Marwood, Governess. See Caroline Greene.
Initiation Rites. Anonymous.
Judith Boston. Titian Beresford.
Lady F. Anonymous.
Mistress Mine. Valentina Cilescu.
The Petticoat Dominant. Anonymous.
Private Lessons. Lindsay Welsh.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
The Romance of Chastisement.
Swiss Finishing School. Mistress Clare.
FICTION - GROUPS, MULTI-PLAYER SCENES, ORGIES
Birch Fever. Martin Pyx.
Brutal Femdom (Parts 1-3). wi.3231@wizvax.com.
By Her Subdued. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
The Catalyst. Sarah Adamson.
The Countess in Red.
Debbie's Gift. Sue (amity@spyder.net)
Exit to Eden. Anne Rampling.
The Garden of Evil. Octave Mirbeau.
Lust of the Cossacks. Anonymous.
Master of Timberland. Sara French.
Making of a Mistress. Mule (mule@tpe.com)
My Darling Dominatrix. Grant Antrews.
Natasha. Delectus Books.
Painter's Daughters. Farnorth (farnorth@alaska.north)
Passion in Rio. Anonymous.
Return to Timberland. Sara French.
The Sisters (1-5). an125886@anon.penet.fi.
Story of Monique. Anonymous.
Toilet Service. bhowell@ismi.net
The Torture Garden. Octave Mirbeau.
The Yellow Room. Anonymous.
There's a Whip In My Valise. Greta X.
FICTION - LESBIAN, LEATHER DYKES, FEMDOM- FEMSUB, S/M DYKES
Affinities. Rachel Perez. Masquerade & Spectrum.
Amanda. Timothy Taylor.
Bad Attitude. Magazine.
Bad Habits. Lindsay Welsh.
Birch Fever. Martin Pyx.
The Blue Rose. Alison Tyler.
By Her Controlled. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
Calyx of Isis. Pat Califia.
CF Publications.
The Change. Willie.
City of Women. Susan Anders.
Coming To Power. Edited by SAMOIS.
Daughters of Darkness. Pam Keesey (Editor).
Doc and Fluff. Pat Califia.
Dreams of Vengeance. Artemis OakGrove.
The First Stroke. Cappy Kotz.
Half Dressed, She Obeyed. Deborah Ryder.
The Haven. Valentina Cilescu.
Ilene. Rachel Perez. (Short story in Affinities).
The Image. Jean de Berg.
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leatherwomen II. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Lust of the Cossacks. Anonymous.
Macho Sluts. Pat Califia.
Melting Point. Pat Califia.
No Other Tribute. Laura Antoniou (Edior)
Passage and Other Stories. Aarona Griffin.
Pink Champagne. Susan Anders.
The Raging Peace. Artemis OakGrove.
Slaves of Shoanna. Mercedes Kelly.
The SM Murder: Murder at Roman Hill. Elisabeth Oliver.
The Sisters (1-5). an125886@anon.penet.fi.
Some Women. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
Spring Fevers. Martin Pyx. Blue Moon.
The Surpirse Party. Pat Califia.
Taking Lauren. hawks@QueensU.CA (Katharine Hawks)
Tell Me What You Like. Kate Allen.
Throne of Council. Artemis OakGrove.
Venus Infers. Magazine.
A Victorian Romance. Lindsay Welsh.
White Thighs. Alexander Trocchi.
FICTION - NEW SOCIETIES, ALTERNATIVE CULTURES
Egalia's Daughters. Gerd Brantenberg.
The Gothic Tower.
FICTION - POETRY
The Pearl. Grove Press.
Poems and Ballads. Swinburne. 1866.
FICTION - PRISONS, CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTES, JAILS
The Institute. Maria Del Rey.
Modern Slaves. Claire Willows.
The Sisterhood of the Institute. Maria Del Rey.
FICTION - SCIENCE FICTION
Selling Venus. Cecilia Tan, Editor.
S/M Futures. Cecilia Tan.
Telepaths Don't Need Safewords. Cecilia Tan.
FICTION - VAMPIRES, SUPERNATUREAL, OCCULT
Daughters of Darkness. Pay Keesey (Editor)
Demon Heat. Joycelyn Joyce (Peter Anselmo).
FICTION - WEB PAGES
Akasha, http://www.webcom.com/~akasha
Amity, http://www.tpe.com/~amity
Farnorth, http://www.tpe.com/~mule
Mule, http://www.tpe.com/~mule
FILMS OR VIDEO - COMEDY, SATIRE
The Adams Family. Barry Sonnenfeld, 1991.
Eating Raoul. Paul Bartel, 1982.
Exit to Eden. Garry Marshall, 1994.
High Anxiety. Mel Brooks, 1977.
Spaced Out. British.
FILMS OR VIDEO - HETERSEXUAL, FEMDOM-MALESUB, MARRIED, COUPLES
Bitter Moon. Roman Polanski, 1992.
The Ballad of the Sad Cafe. Simon Callow, 1992.
The Blue Angel. Josef von Sternberg, 1930.
Body Chemistry II. Adam Simon, 1991.
Body of Evidence. Uli Edel, 1992.
Boy Meets Girl. Ray Brady.
Cruel Turnabout. Dungeon Video, 1990, #DVI107.
Dead Man 2. Ian Kerkhof.
Exit To Eden. Garry Marshall, 1994.
The Evil Camerman. Richard Kern.
Fanny Hill. 1981.
Heart of Midnight. Matthew Chapman, 1989.
In the Realm of the Senses. Nagisa Oshima, 1976.
Johnny Guitar. 1954.
La Maitresse. Gerard Depardieu, 1976.
La Vampire Nu. Jean Rollins.
Mano Destra. Cleo Ueblmann.
Mishima, A life In 4 Chapters (Kyoko's House). Paul
Schrader, 1985.
Mistress Bridgette's Justice. Janus Rainer, 1992.
My Tutor. George Bowers, 1992.
The Piano. 1993.
Salon Kitty. Tinto Brass.
Seduction: The Cruel Woman. Monika Treut, 1985.
La Sequence Des Barres Paralleles. Ian Kerkhof.
Sid and Nancy. Alex Cox, 1986.
Stations of the Cross. Ian Kerkhof.
Something Wild. Jonathan Demme, 1986.
Submit to Me, Pierce. Richard Kern, 1989.
Supervixens. Russ Meyer, 1975.
Temptation. Doris Kloster.
Tokyo Decadence. Ryu Murakami.
Take-out Torture. Dungeon Video, 1990, #DVI103.
Venus in Furs. Massimo Dallamano,
Venus In Furs. Maarje Seyferth & Victor Niewenhuijs, 1994.
A Woman in Flames. Robert Van Ackeren, 1984.
Warehouse Slaves Discipline. Bizarre Video, 1990.
** Send Your Additions to viaverde@netcom.com ***
FILMS OR VIDEO - LESBIAN, LEATHERDYKE,
FEMDOM-FEMSUB
Chained Heat. Paul Nichols, 1983.
Female Misbehavior. Monika Treut, 1992.
FILMS OR VIDEO - SCIENCE FICTION, FANTASY
Spaced Out. British.
Star Maidens. British.
FILMS OR VIDEO - VIOLENCE, NONCONSENSUAL SM,
HORROR, MYSTERY
Alien. Ridley Scott. 1979.
Basic Instinct. Paul Verhoeven, 1992.
Batman Returns. Tim Burton, 1992.
Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! Russ Meyer, 1962.
Illsa She Wolf of the SS. 1973.
Le Frisson Des Vampires. Jean Rollin.
Heart of Midnight. Matthew Chapman, 1989.
The Night Porter. 1973.
Romeo Is Bleeding. 1993.
Succubus. Jess Franco.
Valerie. Jaromil Jires.
Vampyres. Joseph Larraz, 1974.
Videodrome. David Cronenberg, 1983.
FILMS - CRITICISM AND INTERPRETATION, REVIEWS
Hard Core. Linda Williams.
Hollywood Babylon. David Flint.
Masochistic Ecstasy. Kaja Silverman.
sss
FLAGELLATION, SPANKING, WHIPPING, PADDLING
CF Publications.
Fellowship of the Rod. A.K.S.S.
The Governess. Magazine. A.K.S.S.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
http://www.io.com/~casper
Jeux De Dames Cruelles (1850-1960). Serge Nazarieff.
Leda/NuWest Productions.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Romance of Chastisement.
Sasismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus. Walter Braun.
Sandmutopian Guardian. Magazine.
See Subject: Instructional, Techniques, How To.
Sweet Retribution. A.K.S.S. Delectus Books.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.
GODDESS WORSHIP
alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.religion.wicca
Aphrodite-l Contact Ceci at aphrodite-l@lysator.liu.se
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
The Once and Future Goddess. Elinor W. Gadon.
Reflexions sur Lilith. Jean Carteret.
La Renaissance De Lillith. Joel de Gravelaine.
See Also: Religion, Occult
The Spiral Dance. Starhawk.
The Witches' Goddess. Janet Farrar.
GOVERNESS, SCHOOL MISTRESS
Confessions and Experiences. Edith Cadivec.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
The Governess. Magazine. A.K.S.S.
The Romance of Chastisement.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.
iii
INFANT GAMES, ADULT BABIES, DIAPER
TRAINING,
JK Personal Products
ILLUSTRATED WORKS, ADULT COMICS, DRAWINGS,
FINE ART
The Art of Bill Ward. Bill Ward.
The Art of (Eric) Stanton - Master of Bizarre, Book I.
L'Arte Erotica Di Leone Frollo. Leone Frollo.
Bertha. The Art of Bill Ward.
Bondage and Foot Fantasies. Saudelli.
Chevrotine. The Art of Bill Ward.
Confidential TV. Eric Stanton, Eros Comics, 1994.
Countess in Red.
Diva Bizarre.
Diva Fetish.
Diva Obsexion.
Drawing the Line.
Dressage & Una Bruna Pungente. Bernard Montorgueil.
The Dream Land Series. Princess Sheeba.
Eric Kroll's Fetish Girls.
Eros Comix.
The Erotic Art of Leone Frollo.
Erotica. Charlotte Hill.
Erotica Universalis. Gilles Neret, Editor.
Leda Productions.
Madame De Varennes & Barbara. Bernard Montorgueil.
Madam Adista. Gene Bilbrew, Bizarre Comics.
Pascaline. The Art of Bill Ward.
Prometheus. Magazine.
The Road to Repentance. Georges Pichard.
Rubber Monastery.
See Also: Periodicals, Artists
Skin Two. Magazine.
The Spider Garden. Michael Manning.
Valentina. Guido Crepax.
Venus in Furs. Guido Crepax.
INSTRUCTIONAL, TECHNIQUES, HOW-TO
The bottoming book. Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Different Loving. Gloria Brame.
Finding Your Dominant Woman.
Learning the Ropes. Race Bannon.
Learning the Ropes (Video).
Ona Zee:http:/www.onazee.com
Leatherman's Handbook (I & II) . Larry Townsend.
Leathersex. Joseph W. Bean.
The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual.
The Loving Dominant. John Warren.
The Master's Manual. Jack Rinella.
On the Safe Edge: A Manual for SM Play.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix.
S/M: A Player's Handbook. Lady Tanith.
SM 101. Jay Wiseman.
The Topping Book. Bossie Easton and Lady Green.
A Tangled Web. Lady Tanith.
INTERNET DIRECTORY: SM AUTHORS, EDITORS, CONTRIBUTORS, PRODUCERS,
AUTHORITIES, BUSINESS PERSONS
Akasha. akasha@netcom.com
Mistress Blanca and Peter. viaverde@ix.netcom.com
Jay Doubleyou. ASFemdom FAQ editor. juu@netcom.com
Governess Eisanna. darkkhour@aol.com (Darkk Hour)
Femina Society. infinity@palace.com. (Ms. C)
Future Sex. Lisa Palac, Ed.. futursex@well.sf.ca.us.
Rob Jellinghaus. ASB FAQ Editor. robj@unreal.com
Mistress Julie. DENG82A@prodigy.com (Julie Mcdonnell)
Laura Goodwin. SMC Church. LaLaura@ix.netcom.com.
Lady Green. Janet W. Hardy. verdant@crl.com
Leonard. ixion@dorsai.org
Dee-Ann LeBlanc. dee@resaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Robert J. LeBlanc. rjl@renaissoft.com (FemSupremcy)
Trevor Jacques, trevorj@
Andreas Mann. andreasman@aol.com
Ms. Margo. margo@netcom.com
Ms. Natasha, Bondage Tymes. MSNAT123@aol.com
Mistress Nan. Tirant@aol.com
Pan Pantziarka, Fetish Times (UK), pan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Jack Rinella, ttp://metroslave.com/rinella/mrjackr.html
Princess Sheeba. princess.sheeba@linq.com
See Also: Bulletin Board Systems, Internet Newsgroups
Versatile Fashions, Mistress Antoinette.
Vfashion@palace.com
SandMUtopian Guardian. siradam@ix.netcom.com
Lady Tanith. pleasure@netcom.com (Tanith Tyrr)
Villeinage. Sarah De Palma. Fingers@Phoenix.Phoenix.net
Jay Wiseman. jaybob@crl.com
Francis A. Wiegers and Ona Zee. ozp@ix.netcom.com
INTERNET NEWSGROUPS, MAIL LISTS, DISCUSSION
GROUPS, IRCs
alt.amazon-women.admirers
alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.lesbian.feminist.poetry
alt.mothersuperior
alt.pantyhose
alt.personals.bondage
alt.personals.spanking
alt.personals.spanking.punishment
alt.religion.wicca
alt.sex
alt.sex.bondage
alt.sex.bondage.personals
alt.sex.erotica.marketplace
alt.sex.feet
alt.sex.femdom
alt.sex.femdom FAQ
alt.sex.fetish.fashion
alt.sex.fetish.feet
alt.sex.fetish.hair
alt.sex.fetish.watersports
alt.sex.magazines
alt.sex.spanking
alt.sex.voyeurism
alt.sex.watersports
alt.society.neutopia
alt.women.supremacy
amazons-l (amazons-request@math.uio.no) femdom-dc-request@phear.digex.net, yami@digex.ne
femsuprem-requests@renaissoft.com
Fetish Network: TFNBBS.COM
gopher to tpe.ncm.com
IRC #Dom/Sub, #bdsm
IRC #femdom, #femsuprem, #femina
Pointer to Sex Info on the Net. Mistress Blanca and Peter.
Powerplay-l@netcom.com
rec.arts.erotica
See Also: Bulletin Board Systems, WWW Pages
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.
INTER-RACIAL, INTER-CULTURAL, MULTI-CULTURAL
Black Leather in Color.
INTRODUCTORY WORKS, BEGINNER'S GUIDES
alt.sex.bondage FAQ. robj@unreal.com
How to Make Your Man Behave... Karen Salmansohn.
The Kiss of the Whip. Jim Prezwalski.
Learning the Ropes. Race Bannon.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller. Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
The Sexually Dominant Woman. Lady Green.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
LEGAL, CENSORSHIP, CRIMINAL, FREEDOM-PRIVACY
ISSUES
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.
LESBIANS
Bad Attitude.
Brat Attack.
Books by Pat Califia.
See Also: Fiction - Lesbians, Bisexual
MARRIAGE, COUPLES, MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS
1,001 Ways To Be Romantic. Gregory Godek.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Venus in Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch.
Welts. Gloria Wallace.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.
MASTURBATION
Dominatrix Domain. Magazine.
Leg Show. Newspaper.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.
MUSIC, SONGS, OPERA
Jaffe, Deborah. Rock/Jazz
Nine Inch Nails. Rock 1993
Once in a Lifetime, Sarah Brightman, _Dive_.
Paul Valery's Semiramis. Opera, 1934.
Velvet Underground's Venus in Furs. Rock Music.
NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE RESOURCES
German: Xur - Germany "HCB: Handbuch des Sadomasochismus"
Japanese Femdom books and magazines
http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~/tku
Spanish - Search this document with term "Spanish"
OCCULT, MAGICK, WICCAN, DARKSIDE GODDESS,
KALI, NEW AGE
alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.magick.*
alt.pagan
alt.religion.sexuality
alt.religion.wicca
An ABC of Witchcraft. Doreen Valiente.
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
(bree@smartdocs.com)
The Femina Society. Organization, publications.
Kali! Death of Ego Ritual. amfas@netcom.com (Coyote)
The Satanic Witch. Anton La Vey.
See Also: Religion, Goddess Worship
ORGANIZATIONS, CLUBS
[For More Information, Look at alt.sex.femdom FAQ]
Alice Kerr-Southerland Society. The Governess.
Alt.Sex.Femdom FAQ. By Jay Doubleyou.
Amazon Sisterhood Society
The Black Orchid. (305) 437-5176, Ext: 9655.
D&S Society of Baltimore. dssb@aol.com
The Ebony Goddess Society
Escape. Ga03429@vnet.net
The Eulenspiegel Society. ixion@dorsai.dorsai.org
The FDMC Society
Goddess of Domination.
Gynarchy Club
The FEMINA Society. (508) 374-6127.
The Harmony League. England. 081 989 0281.
The Leather Rose Society (Texas). rabbit@metronet.com
The National Leather Organization. (206) 789-8990.
Orb and Scepter. (702) 251-7201.
People Exchanging Power. (908) 284-8040.
POWER
The Service of Mankind Church
Society of Janus,
http://www.blackiris.com/SFLeatherMC/Janus/Janus.html
PERIODICALS: MAGAZINES, NEWSPAPERS,
NEWSLETTERS, ZINES
Attitude
Bad Attitude
Behind the Scene
Bitches With Whips
Black Leather in Color
Black Sheets
Blue Blood
Body Play and Modern Primitives Quarterly
Bondage Tymes
Boot Lover's Digest
Boudoir Noir
Brat Attack
Capitualtion - Fantastic Books
CF Publications
Corporal - Fantastic Books
Cruella
Divinity
Domina
Domina News
Dominant Domain - New Estoeric Press
Dominant Mystique - New Esoteric Press
Dominant View
Domination Directory International
Domission
Dungeonmaster
Esencia S/M. (Spanish)
Echoes From the Sanctuary
The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter: Prometheus
Fantasy Fashion Digest
Female Supremacy
Feminine Illusion
Fetish Times
Fetish Times (UK)
Fetish World - New Estoeric Press
Future Sex
Get Kinky
The Governess
Goddess
Greenery
Hair To Stay
In Step
International Discipline Review
Kinky People, Places and Things
KPPT
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine
Leather Links
Leg Tease - Fantastic Books
Leg Show
Ma'am
Men Under Control
Mistress 4 U
Mrs. Silk
My Way (Our Girls)
O
Outrageous Women
Passion: Our Leather Soul
Piercing Fans International Quarterly
QSM Newsletter
Promethus. The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter.
QUIM
Riding Cult
Ritual
Roses With Thorns
S.A.D.E. (Spanish)
Sandmutopia Guardian
Secret
Servant's Quarters
Skin Two
Slippery When Wet
Spank Hard - Stand Corrected
Spectator
Stand Corrected
Stiletto
subCULTURE - Mistress Clare
Sumissa. (Spanish)
Tacones Altos. (Spanish)
A Taste of Latex
Venus Infers
Villeinage
Wicked Women
Women Who Administer Punishment.
Zeitgeist International
PERSONALS, HOW TO MEET A DOMINANT WOMAN,
FINDING A TOP WOMAN
alt.personals.bondage
alt.personals.spanking
alt.sex.femdom FAQ. Jay Doubleyou.
The Bottoming Book. Dossie Easton. pp. 25-42
Bondage Tymes.
Direct Contact Guide to B&D.
Finding Your Dominant Woman. John Warren.
How to Find a Mistress. Uncle Wiggly.
Kinky Computers. John Warren.
The Loving Dominant. John Warren.
Professional Dominance. Mistress Cybelle.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix. John Warren
SM101. Jay Wiseman. pp. 35-86
PHOTOGRAPHIC WORKS, ART BOOKS, FINE ART
Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.
Erotic By Nature. David Steinberg.
Femalia. Joani Blank (Editor).
Fetish Girls. Eric Kroll.
Lady Laura.
Love Bites. Della Grace.
Noires. Richard Laillier.
Revelations. Housk Randall.
Ritual. Magazine.
Rituals of Love. Housk Randall.
See Also: Periodicals, Illustrations
Sexual Art. Michael Rosen.
Sexual Magic. Michael Rosen.
Sexual Portraits. Michael Rosen.
Skin Two. Magazine.
Spartacus Publications.
Transformations: Crossdressers. Mariette Allen.
Wheels and Curves.
Wolfgang Eichler, Erotic Photographs.
Yva Richard. Alexander Dupouy.
PROFESSIONAL DOMINATRIXES, MISTRESSES, PROSTITUTES
Being a Prostitute. Perkins and Bennett.
Call Me Mistress. Natalie Rhys.
Confessions and Experiences. Edith Cadivec.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Domina News. Newsletter.
Domination Directory International.
Dungeon Safety for the Professional. Jay Wiseman.
Eros: The Meaning of My Life. Edith Cadivec.
Good Girls/Bad Girls. Laurie Bell.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen. AK-S.
The House of Pain. Monique Von Cleef.
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine
Mistress Clare.
Mistress Leah LaFleur.
Nothing Personal. Donald McRae.
Professional Dominance. Mistress Cybelle.
The Sacred Prostitute. Nancy Qualis-Corbet.
Screwing the System. Anne McClintock.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix. Mentor Series.
Sexplicitly Yours. Gloria Walker.
Sex Work. Frederique Delacoste.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
Whips and Kisses. Mistress Jacqueline.
Unnatural Acts. Susan Shellogg.
Working Girls. Neil Philip.
PYSCHIATRY, PSYCHOLOGY
Against Sadomasochism. Robin Linden.
Bonds of Love. Jessica Benjamin.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Coldness and Cruelty. Gilles Deleuze.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
Erotic Power Play. William Henkin.
The Fantasy Game. Peter Dally.
Frame Analysis. Erving Goffman.
Journey of the Heart. John Welwood.
Of Love and Lust. Theodor Reik.
Love Maps. John Money.
Masochism. Robert A. Glick, Editor. 1988.
Masochism: A Jugian View. Lyn Cowan.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Myth of Women's Masochism. Paula Caplan. 1985.
The Pleasure Principle. Sigmund Freud.
Sadismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus. Walter Braun.
Sadomasochism. Suzanne Schad-Somers.
S&M: Studies in Sadomasochsim. Thomas Weinberg.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.
A Taste for Pain. Maria Marcus.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
RELIGION
alt.religion.sexuality
alt.religion.wicca
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
(bree@smartdocs.com)
Masochism: A Jugian View. Lyn Cowan.
See Also: Goddess Worship, Occult, Spirituality
Service of Mankind Church.
ROLEPLAYING, POWER EXCHANGE GAMES, SM GAMES
Different Loving. Gloria Brame.
Doing It For Daddy. Pat Califia (Editor).
Erotic Power Play. Willian Henkin.
Fantascenes. Lady Tanith.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
My Private Live. Mistress Nan.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
Some Women. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Victor Bruno's Handbook for Slaves. Miss Kay (Editor)
Sensuality, Senses, Erotic Sensuality
A Natural History of the Senses. Diane Ackerman.
Plaisirs d'Amour. Elizabeth Nash.
The Sense of Smell. Roy Bedichek.
Touching. Ashley Montague.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.
SEXUALITY, SEXUAL RELATIONS, PASSION, LUST
The Clitoral Kiss. Kenneth Stubbs.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Erotic Fantasies. Phyllis Kronhausen.
Femalia. Joni Blank (Editor).
For Yourself. Lonnie Barbach.
Good Vibrations - Books and Videos
Journal of Erotica. Magazine.
New Joy of Sex. Alex Comfort.
Rituals of Love. Housk Randall.
Sex For One. Betty Dodson.
Sexual Dissidence. Jonathan Dollimore.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
Talk Dirty to Me. Sallie Tisdale.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.
Women on Top. Nancy Friday.
SOCIOLOGICAL, CULTURAL, LEATHER CULTURE,
THE PERV SCENE
Against Nature. Jeffrey Weeks.
The Best of Skin Two. Tim Woodward, Editor.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.
Rituals of Love. Ted Polhemus.
Sadism and Masochism. Thomas S. Weinberg
See Also: Periodicals, Clothing, Sexuality
The Social Organization of Sexual Risk. John Alan Lee.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.
SPIRITUALITY, GODDESS WORSHIP, RELIGION
Circles, Groves and Sanctuaries. Pauline Campanelli.
Goddess. Magazine.
Goddess in Everywoman. Jean S. Bolen.
Gospel of the Goddess. Pamela Suffield.
Kali! Death of Ego Ritual. amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
Kali, the Feminine Force. Ajit Mookerjec.
Longing for Darkness. Cina Galland.
Masturbating Without Orgasm. Margo Woods.
Mothers and Amazons. Helen Diner.
The Once and Future Goddess. Elenor Gadon.
Return of the Goddess. Elizabeth Cunningham.
See Also: Occult, Fetish, Religion, Goddess Worship
A Woman's Book of Rituals .... Barbara Ardindger.
TOP, MISTRESS, DOMINANT, SADIST, SUPERIOR
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
The Masters Manual. Jack Rinella.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Topping Book. Dossie Easton and Lady Green
TV SHOWS, TELEVISION
The Avengers. Emma Peel played by Diana Rigg.
1965-1968.
Planet Earth. Directed by Marc Daniels. Produced by
Gene Roddenberry.
Xena (1996)
Send me your suggestions.
VIDEOS - SOURCES, PRODUCERS, DISTRIBUTORS
Executive Imports International.
Fantastic Books.
Good Vibrations.
Leda Productions.
Learning the Ropes. Ona Zee: http:/www.onazee.com
Mistress Sandy.
New Esoteric Press. See "Dominant Mystique"
Pharaoh Publishing: Goddess Series.
Redemption Videos, Ritual World.
Shadow Lane Products. See "Stand Corrected"
See Also: Films,
The X Rated Videotape Guide. Robert Rimmer.
VIOLENCE, SADISM, NON-CONSENSUAL VIOLENCE, CRIME
Bad Girls Do It! Michael Newton.
Countess in Red. Leopold von Sacher-Masoch.
The Sadeian Woman. Angela Carter.
S&M: The Last Taboo. Caroline Greene.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.
WATER SPORTS, UROLANGIA, TOILET SCENES
Anal Pleasure and Health. Jack Morin.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Fetish Times. Newspaper.
Leatherman's Handbook II. Larry Townsend
On the Safe Edge. Trevor Jacques.
Toilet Service (Fiction). bhowell@ismi.net
Trust: The Hand Book. Bert Herman.
Scatalogic Rites of the World. J.G. Bourke.
Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.
WWW PAGES, WEB PAGES, HTML DOCUMENTS,
HYPERTEXT
Go to BDSM Bookmark, By Mistress Blanca and Peter,
http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ABOUT "THE DOMINATRIX IN PRINT AND OTHER MEDIA"
(TDiPaOM)
Another Greenway Searchware Tool for the NetAge
"The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media: An Annotated Bibliography
and Subject Index." (TdiPaOM),
E-Mail: viaverde@ix.netcom.com
Web Page: http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
Version 4.9, 6/1/96.
135K, 90 pages, Times New Roman, 14pt, W.P. 6.1 .wpd format.
Former Title: "The Dominant Female in Print and Media." Prepared by
Mistress Blanca and Peter at viaverde@netcom.com, Green Way, c
1994 - 1995.
Why the change in title in Version 3.7 of this work from "The
Dominant Female in Print and Media" to the "Dominatrix in Print and
Other Media?" This annotated bibliography has always stressed the
sexually dominant woman, BDSM activities, Femme Tops, and erotica
or pornography featuring the Leather Culture and the Dominatrix. It
has tried not to exclude nonsexual Female Supremacy and D/s issues
and outlooks, or feminist perspectives; however, these topics are more
than adequately covered in many other excellent resource guides on the
Net and elsewhere. Since the topic of the "Dominant Female" is more
general, and we are posting to alt.sex.femdom, we have chosen a more
restrictive term "Dominatrix" to represent the sexually dominant
woman (nonprofessional and professional) in this BDSM context.
Slightly different versions of TDiPaOM have been posted to the
Internet newsgroup alt.sex.femdom, as follows: 10/1/94, 11/1/94,
12/1/94, 1/1/95, 2/1/95, 3/1/95, 4/1/95, 5/1/95, 6/1/95, 7/15/95,
11/1/95 12/1/95, 1/1/96, 2/1/96, 3/1/96, 3/15/96, 4/1/96, 5/1/96, and
6/1/96. TDiPaOM was posted to the alt.sex.bondage newsgroup on or
about the 15th in 11/95, 12/95, 1/96, 3/96, and 6/96; or, to the
alt.sex.spanking newsgroup on the 15th in 10/95, 4/96. On 2/20/96,
DiPaOM was approved for posting to alt.answers and news.answers by
Pam Greene.
++++++++++++++++++++++
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If you cannot download this very large file with your
newsreader, then some version of the file called "The Dominatrix in
Print and Other Media" *MIGHT* be found for FREE (for those that
can afford the luxury of a pc workstation, and telephone and ISP fees,
and the time to fit in another hobby, etc.) Anyway, look for the
ascii.txt file of TDiPaOM for a "free" download at these sites:
a) Try the Society for Human Sexuality (SHS) Electronic Library,
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/
b) Compuserve users might try to find this bibliography in the
HSX200 Forum, in the Variations II Section, according to Katherine
Hawks.
c) You can try fetching TDiPaOM by email from the Femsuprem
Archives, if you subscribe to the Femsupremacy mail list, by sending
an email message as follows:
TO: femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com
SUBJECT: archive get resources/media.
d) WWW Pages Come and Go ...... But, Try:
http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/users/raley/cyberporn.html
http://nyx10.cs.du.edu.8001/~mstone/home.html
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/
http://www.frontiernet.com/~patches/
http://www.tpe.com
http://www.casti.com/sm/publications/books/femdomlit.txt
e) Try a gopher unix.tpe.com or URL http://www.tpe.com, Menu
Down 2. SM, Leather and Fetish Community Outreach/, 3. Online SM,
Leather and Fetish Resources/, 1. Usenet Newsgroups/, 7.
alt.sex.femdom/, select "The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media."
Download to your email or home directory. Try URL:
http://www.tpe.com. This service provided by The Power Exchange,
and maintained by Leonard. {Out of order lately}
f) Try the alt.answers or news.answers archives. Do an ftp to
rtfm.mit.edu and look in directory /pub/usenet/alt.sex.femdom.
You can always reach us by the great U.S. Postal service.
Where: Green Way Research, P.O. Box 92074, City of Industry, CA
91715-2074. You can send us letters, articles, videotapes, good stuff,
newspapers, books, flyers, announcements, audiotapes, CD's, goodies,
gifts, etc..
This document (TDiPaOM) is copyrighted, c 1994 - 1996, by the
holders of the Internet account: viaverde@ix.netcom.com and
viaverde@netcom.com (Green Way). It may be freely redistributed in
its entirety, as is, provided that this notice, and the authors' names, are
not removed. Please notify us if you are distributing this document via
a WWW Page, gopher, BBS, CD, newsletter or archive; so that we
might refer users to your source. This document may not be sold for
profit or incorporated in commercial documents without the written
permission of the copyright holder. This document is provided as is
without any express or implied warranty.
MB & sp, viaverde@ix.netcom.com, http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
TdiPaOM, Version 4.9, 6/1/96
Working File: c:\w6sm\dipmas.wpd
History File: c:\w6sm\dip49g.wpd
Internet ascii.txt File: c:\em\tdipaom.txt
Last Update: May 31, 1996 12:05 a.m. By Blanca
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 87
Today's Topics:
[Fwd: Re: can't be there]
Crime and punishment (re: Prisoners rights)
Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Prisoners rights.
the demise of Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 09:40:51 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: can't be there]
Message-ID: <31B07293.1D79@tiac.net
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1C5E21387DBF"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------1C5E21387DBF
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This is long...but explains what is going on today for Stand for the
Children.
Patricia
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STAND FOR CHILDREN FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
This version was updated on May 31, 1996
Thank you for your interest in Stand for Children Day! This FAQ should
answer most of your questions about Stand for Children Day, its
message and how you can get involved. If the answers to your questions
are not on this FAQ, please see below how to obtain more information
via e-mail, phone or post.
If you have WORLD WIDE WEB access, our web site is the best place
to find updated information on travel information, site maps and
endorsing organizations. Visit us on the Web at
http://www.stand.org
This FAQ answers the following questions:
1. What is Stand for Children Day?
2. Who is involved in Stand for Children?
3. Is the Stand an effort to build support for a partisan political
agenda?
4. How will the Stand for Children make a lasting difference?
5. How can I come to Stand for Children and where can I stay?
6. What will happen on June 1?
7. What can I do if I can't make it to Washington DC on June 1?
8. What local Stand activities are happening in my area?
9. I'm with the media, do I need press credentials?
10. I want to volunteer on June 1, where should I go?
11. What other information is available electronically?
12. How can I get in touch with the Stand for Children Office?
1. WHAT IS STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY?
--------------------------------------------------
A national day of commitment to children.
A non-partisan call to action at a critical moment in our nation's
history; the last national election year of the 20th century; the eve
of a new millennium when our nation's legacy is at stake; a time when
the decisions we now make will shape the future for our children and
our nation in the coming century.
A day for Americans to gather and affirm our responsibility as
individuals, families, communities, and as a national community for
improving the quality of life of children.
A day for Americans of every race, age, region, income, and faith to
unite in Washington, DC as a national community in support of children.
A day to affirm what unites us rather than what divides us: a desire
to raise healthy, educated, and moral children.
A day for us to celebrate children and those who struggle every day
to raise them well.
A day to send a message to political, business and cultural leaders
that they must do no harm to children and that they should make it
easier rather than harder for families to raise children.
A day where parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, big brothers
and big sisters, students and educators, advocates and nurturers
will commit ourselves to doing better for children and commit to
holding our cultural, business and political leaders responsible for
doing more for children.
A day to speak in one voice: "Leave No Child Behind!"
2. WHO IS INVOLVED IN STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY?
---------------------------------------------
Stand for Children Day was the idea of Marian Wright Edelman, founder
and president of the Children's Defense Fund, an organization that has
for almost twenty-five years provided a voice for children in
Washington DC. Stand for Children is a separate non-profit
organization with broad-based support in every corner of the country.
So far, over 3,700 national, state and local groups which represent
tens of millions of Americans from every walk of life have endorsed
this day of moral commitment to children. And the list continues to
grow. To receive a list of endorsing organizations via e-mail,
send an email message to
that this a large file-a list of over 3,700 organizations which your e-mail
software may break into smaller files.
3. IS THE STAND FOR CHILDREN AN EFFORT TO BUILD SUPPORT FOR A
PARTISAN POLITICAL AGENDA?
-------------------------------------------------------
June 1st will be a day of spiritual and community renewal. It will be
a day of commitment to children, not a partisan political day.
Americans who care about children are coming as parents and
grandparents, aunts and uncles, big brothers and big sisters, students
and educators, nurturers and providers, not as "Republicans" or
"Democrats" or "Independents." And when they go back home, we hope
that Americans of every persuasion will insist that local and national
political leaders do no harm to children and take positive steps to
support them.
No politicians or candidates are invited to speak at Stand for
Children Day. Of course, if politicians want to come as parents they
are welcome to do so. Supporting children and making it easier rather
than harder for families struggling to raise them is not a partisan
issue. Americans agree that every child should be given the chance to
realize his or her God-given potential, and that no child should grow
up hungry, sick, unsafe, or uneducated. We are trying to build a new
spirit of caring for children that transcends party labels or racial,
regional or economic boundaries.
4. HOW WILL THE STAND FOR CHILDREN MAKE A LASTING DIFFERENCE?
-------------------------------------------------------------
The June 1, 1996 Stand For Children will make a lasting difference
if those of us who care about children and are concerned about
their future recommit ourselves to improving the quality of
childrens lives. Stand For Children focused on the personal,
positive steps that each and every one of can take to make a
difference in a childs life and improve the quality of life for
every child in America.
The Stand For Children Citizens Action Guide available on our
web site and in printed form (see # 12) has a similar focus.
It describes ways in which we can all work with or on behalf
of children. If we, as individuals, family and community
members and citizens, stand for children every day by becoming
better parents, by volunteering, by insisting that our
congregations, civic and community groups, schools and businesses
do more for children, and by holding our leaders to a much
higher standard for children by asking what they have done for
children and what they plan to do for children -- the June 1,
1996 will indeed be a turning point for our children and for
our nation.
By July 1, Stand for Children through our web site and our
toll free number will be a source of practical information to
help you help children in a variety of ways. Our site,
http://www.stand.org, will also feature individuals, groups,
and communities across the nation that are taking a stand.
Please stay in touch and let us know how you, your civic
or community group, congregation, school or place of work or
community is standing for children in order to inspire others
and help us maintain the momentum created by Stand For Children.
5. HOW CAN I COME TO STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY & WHERE CAN I STAY?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about travel, directions, maps, parking, accommodations
and the Metro, please send an email message to our autoresponder account
For tourist information, maps of the Metro and DC area, you should also
visit the Washington DC Visitor's Bureau' s web site
(http://www.washington.org).
6. WHAT WILL HAPPEN ON JUNE 1?
- ----------------------------
This outline of the program for Stand For Children Day is
subject to change without notice.
9 am - 12 pm
Child, Youth & Family Forum (at the southeast end of the Reflecting Pool)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue tents will provide information from endorsing organizations on
issues of concern to children and their families. Educational exhibits,
performances and activities will all be focusing on children's and
families' needs.
9 am - 12 pm
Children's Stage (as part of Family Forum)
------------------------------------------
Activities on the Children's Stage, specifically designed for children
ages 10 and under, will include interactive demonstrations designed to
deliver messages on safety, self esteem, drug abuse and violence
prevention. There will be songs, dance, and stories to inspire and
engage the whole family. Singer, Melissa Manchester, and Bobby McAdams,
the 11-year-old co-star of the NBC sitcom, Minor Adjustments, will be
the hosts. Characters from the PBS television show, Puzzle Place, and
National Wildlife Federation's ranger Rick will be featured along with
children reading poetry, children's musicians, and youth dance troupes
from around the country.
9 am - 12 pm & 3 pm - 5 pm
Youth Stage: Sylvan Theater (at the south side of the Washington Monument)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Young people will host a "speak out," along with musical and theatrical
performances on issues and concerns to teenagers and young adults. Fox
TV's New York Undercover stars, Malik Yoba and 13-year-old George Gore II,
will co-host along with Wilson Cruz from the television show, My So-Called
Life, and other celebrity hosts from the sports and entertainment world.
"City of Peace' and Latin jazz band, "Caribe Son," will be among the
powerful expressions by and for teenagers focusing on how they can create
the change they seek once they leave the Mall.
12 pm
Children's March (Memorial Bridge to the Lincoln Memorial)
----------------------------------------------------------
Ten thousand children from across America - Girl Scouts, boys clubs,
church choirs, young people who have "beaten the odds" - march to the
Lincoln Memorial.
1 pm - 3 pm
Main Program at the Lincoln Memorial
An interfaith service, a 2,000 voice children's choir, nationally known
presenters, a moment when all Americans are asked to stand up for
children, and inspirational speakers calling for greater personal,
family, and community commitment to improving the quality of children's
lives.
7. WHAT CAN I DO IF I CAN'T MAKE IT TO WASHINGTON DC ON JUNE 1?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Visit our web site on June 1st to see coverage of the event, email us your
support and hear from people Standing For Children. Visit us after the event
to see what happened and to hear audio clips of the day's events courtesy of
WebActive (www.webactive.com).
* Visit our web site to read our Citizen's Action Guide, which is a guide we
can all use to Stand for Children every day. You can also contact your
local endorsing organizations to see how you can contribute to the work
they are doing in your community.
* See #4 above as well
8. WHAT LOCAL STAND ACTIVITIES ARE HAPPENING IN MY AREA?
----------------------------------------------------------
Though the focus of the Stand For Children Office in DC has been to
get people to come to Washington DC to stand for children, throughout
the country, kick-off rallys and Stands are being organized. As we learn of
them, we are posting them on our web site. If your organization is
coordinating events in your state in conjunction with Stand for Children,
please let us know by sending an email to <103661.222@compuserve.com.
9. I'M WITH THE MEDIA, DO I NEED PRESS CREDENTIALS?
----------------------------------------------------
Yes, in order to have access to the press area, you will need press
credentials which can be obtained from the Press Tent on the Lincoln
Memorial grounds
10. I WANT TO VOLUNTEER ON JUNE 1ST, WHERE SHOULD I GO?
----------------------------------------------------------
If you want to volunteer at Stand For Children, and you have not yet
registered as a volunteer, you can come on June 1st to our volunteer
tent nearest the Lincoln Memorial, south at the Reflecting Pool as
early as 5 am.
11. WHAT OTHER INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ELECTRONICALLY?
------------------------------------------------------
WORLD WIDE WEB at www.stand.org
Send an email to one of our autoresponder accounts, to receive
the following information via e-mail.
standendorser@mailback.com
List of more than 3,300 organizations endorsing Stand for Children
(Note: this is a large document, which your email software may split up
into several messages)
standtravel@mailback.com
Transportation & Accommodation Information
If you received this e-mail from standinfo@mailback.com, you will be
placed automatically on our mailing list for future mailings. Your
e-mail address will not be accessible to other recipients. If you
or someone you know would like to be added to our list, please send
an email to <103661.222@CompuServe.com with "Add to list" in the
subject line. If you do not want to be placed on this list, please
send an email to <103661.222@CompuServe.com and put "remove from list"
in the subject line.
If you have a Web site and would like to link to our home page, please
link to
purple trademark logo on your page as a graphic and let us know that
you have linked!
12. HOW CAN I GET IN TOUCH WITH THE STAND FOR CHILDREN OFFICE?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Stand for Children
PO Box 75358
Washington DC 20013-5358
(800) 633 4032
Email address <103661.222@compuserve.com
http://www.stand.org
--------------1C5E21387DBF--
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 07:27:17 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Crime and punishment (re: Prisoners rights)
Message-Id: <199606011427.HAA15156@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
Society must protect itself but some anti-social impulses are right and
proper. When society itself is perverse, decent people will be
considered criminal. Example: Arabian women are persecuted/attacked
for going unveiled, and society there permits it. The veil and the
attacks on women are the true abomination, but in that society a woman
who resists the veil is considered bad, perverse, sick, criminal.
Social expectations and conditions determine criminal behavior. Change
society, and what is considered criminal also changes. Considering the
often arbitrary nature of "crime", it behooves us to be merciful to
criminals in our punishments.
Some things are universal: it's always unacceptable to threaten/attack
innocent lives. But is a fetus a life? People of good will disagree.
In some realms abortion is murder, in others it's freeing the mother of
an unacceptable presence. In war it's considered acceptable to kill to
free a land of unacceptable intruders...it's considered acceptable to
kill convicted murders in some places in the world, which frees the
land of an unacceptable person, but what if an innocent is convicted
and sentenced to die?
When refugees/immigrants flee for their very lives to our land and are
turned away, they are in many cases turning to face death. This is
legal, because it is society's will. These people might all be
innocent, even desireable, but no, off they go to their uncertain fate.
It's the law. But the law is what we make it.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 07:43:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606011443.HAA05805@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com
I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).
I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!
I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.
If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 01:37:30 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960602013730.007f57f4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:::bowing::: Why thank you! :)
Do I get a tiara and an armband? :)
--
Laura Goodwin
You mean you want both! ;)
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 01:37:33 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: andrew@packet.net
Subject: the demise of Andrew
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960602013733.007068f4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I obviously wasn't following the arguments and mischievous remarks closely
enough.
It was my impression he was just trying to brighten up what was becoming a
very heavy series of discussions.
Perhaps his techniques were not appropriate to this list, it is not for me
to say.
I would just like to say that I for one am sorry to see him go. He seemed a
pretty reasonable guy.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #87
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 88
Today's Topics:
Estrogen / Testosterone
femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Living with ADD
Trust. (Was: Re: off the original topic of women who rape)
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 04:46:31 +0200
From: jaquet@dial.eunet.ch (lanoline)
To: femsuprem@renaissoft.com
Subject: Estrogen / Testosterone
Message-Id: <199606020246.EAA15007@chsun.eunet.ch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mesdames,
My niece being aware of my interests in Gynarchy e-mailed me the following text.
You probably knew it but i thought that you could appreciate it.
Your, lanoline (property of Mistress Danielle, petticoated male)
The truth about estrogen vs. testosterone
WOMEN SPEAK IN ESTROGEN AND MEN LISTEN IN TESTOSTERONE RELATIONSHIPS: First
of all, a man does not call it a relationship -- he refers to it as "that
time when me and Suzie were doing it on a semi-regular basis". When a
relationship ends, a woman will cry and pour her heart out to her
girlfriends, and she will write a poem titled "All Men Are Idiots". Then she
will get on with her life. A man has a little more trouble letting go. Six
months after the break-up, at 3:00 a.m. on a Saturday night, he will call
and say, "I just wanted to let you know you ruined my life, and I'll never
forgive you, and I hate you, and you're a total floozy. But I want you to
know that there's always a chance for us." This is known as the "I Hate You
/ I Love You" drunken phone call, and 99% if all men have made at least
once. There are community colleges that offer courses to help men get over
this need; alas, these classes rarely prove effective.
SEX: Women prefer 30-40 minutes of foreplay. Men prefer 30-40 seconds of
foreplay. Men consider driving back to her place as part of the foreplay.
MATURITY: Women mature much faster than men. Most 17-year old females can
function as adults. Most 17-year old males are still trading baseball cards
and giving each other wedgies after gym class. This is why high school
romances rarely work out.
MAGAZINES: Men's magazines often feature pictures of naked women. Women's
magazines also feature pictures of naked women. This is because the female
body is a beautiful work of art, while the male body is lumpy and hairy and
should not be seen by the light of day. Men are turned on at the sight of a
naked woman's body. Most naked men elicit laughter from women.
HANDWRITING: To their credit, men do not decorate their penmanship. They
just chicken-scratch. Women use scented, colored stationary and they dot
their "i's" with circles and hearts. Women use ridiculously large loops in
their "p's" and "g's". It is a royal pain to read a note from a woman. Even
when she's dumping you, she'll put a smiley face at the end of the note.
COMEDY: Let's say a small group of men and women are in a room, watching
television, and an episode of the Three Stooges comes on. Immediately, the
men will get very excited; they will laugh uproariously, and even try to
imitate the actions of Curly, man's favorite Stooge. The women will roll
their eyes and groan and wait it out.
BATHROOMS: A man has six items in his bathroom -- a toothbrush, shaving
cream, razor, a bar of Dial soap, and a towel from the Holiday Inn. The
average number of items in the typical woman's bathroom is 437. A man would
not be able to identify most of these items.
GROCERIES: A woman makes a list of things she needs and then goes out to the
store and buys these things. A man waits till the only items left in his
fridge are half a lime and a beer. Then he goes grocery shopping. He buys
everything that looks good. By the time a man reaches the checkout counter,
his cart is packed tighter than the Clampett's car on Beverly Hillbillies.
Of course, this will not stop him from going to the 10-items-or-less lane.
SHOES: When preparing for work, a woman will put on a Mondi wool suit , then
slip on Reebok sneakers. She wil carry her dress shoes in a plastic bag from
Saks. When a woman gets to work, she will put on her dress shoes. Five
minutes later, she will kick them off because her feet are under the desk. A
man will wear the same pair of shoes all day.
LEG WARMERS: Leg warmers are sexy. A woman, even if she's walking the dog or
doing the dishes, is allowed to wear leg warmers. She can wear them any time
she wants. A man can only wear leg warmers if he is auditioning for the
"Gimme the Ball" number in "A Chorus Line."
GOING OUT: When a man says he is ready to go out, it means he is ready to go
out. When a woman says she is ready to go out, it means she WILL be ready to
go out, as soon as she finds her earrings, finishes putting on her makeup...
CATS: Women love cats. Men say they love cats, but when women aren't
looking, men kick cats.
OFFSPRING: Ah, children. A woman knows all about her children. She knows
about dentist appointments and soccer games and romances and best friends
and favorite foods and secret fears and hopes and dreams. A man is vaguely
aware of some short people living in the house.
LOW BLOWS: Let's say a man and a woman are watching a boxing match on TV.
One of the boxers is felled by a low blow. The woman says, "Oh, gee. That
must have hurt." The man groans and doubles over, and actually FEELS the pain.
DRESSING UP: A woman will dress up to: go shopping, water the plants, empty
the garbage, answer the phone, read a book, get the mail. A man will dress
up for: weddings, funerals.
DAVID LETTERMAN: Men think David Letterman is the funniest man on the face
of the Earth. Women think he is a mean, semi-dorky guy who always has a bad
haircut.
LAUNDRY: Women do laundry every couple of days. A man will wear every
article of clothing he owns, including his surgical pants that were hip
about eight years ago, before he will do his laundry. When he is finally out
of clothes, he will wear a dirty sweatshirt inside out, rent a U-Haul and
take his mountain of clothes to the laundromat. Men always expect to meet
beautiful women at the laundromat. This is a myth perpetuated by re-runs of
old episodes of "Love, American Style."
WEDDINGS: When reminiscing about weddings, women talk about "the ceremony".
Men talk about "the bachelor party".
SOCKS: Men wear sensible socks. They wear standard white sweat socks. Women
wear strange socks. Socks that are cut way below the ankles, that have
pictures of clouds, that have a big fuzzy ball on the back.
NICKNAMES: If Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle go out for lunch, they
will call each other Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle. But if Mike,
Dave, Rob and Jack go out for a brewsky, they will affectionately refer to
each other as Bullet-Head, Godzilla, Peanut-Head and Useless.
EATING OUT: ... and when the check comes, Mike, Dave, Rob and Jack will each
throw in $20 bills, even though it's only for $22.50. None of them will have
anything smaller, and none will actually admit they want change back. When
the girls get their check, out come the pocket calculators.
MIRRORS: Men are vain; they will check themselves out in a mirror. Women are
ridiculous; they will check out their reflections in any shiny surface:
mirrors, spoons, store windows, Joe Garagiola's head.
MENOPAUSE: When a woman reached menopause, she goes through a variety of
complicated emotional, psychological, and biological changes. The nature and
degree of these changes varies with the individual. Menopause in a man
provokes a uniform reaction -- he buys aviator glasses, a snazzy French cap
and leather driving gloves, and goes shopping for a Porsche.
THE TELEPHONE: Men see the telephone as a communication tool. They use the
telephone to send short messages to other people. A woman can visit her
girlfriend for two weeks, and upon returning home, she will call the same
friend and they will talk for three hours.
DIRECTIONS: If a woman is out driving, and she finds herself in unfamiliar
surroundings, she will stop at a gas station and ask for directions. Men
consider this to be a sign of weakness. Men wil never stop and ask for
directions. Men will drive in a circle for hours, all the while saying
things like, "Looks like I've found a new way to get there." and, "I know
I'm in the general neighborhood. I recognize that 7-11 store."
ADMITTING MISTAKES: Women will sometimes admit making a mistake. The last
man who admitted he was wrong was General George Custer.
RICHARD GERE: Women like Richard Gere because he is sexy in a dangerous way.
Men hate Richard Gere because he reminds them of that slick guy who works at
the health club and dates only married women.
MADONNA: Same as above, but reversed. Same reason.
TOYS: Little girls love to play with toys. Then when they reach the age of
11 or 12, they lose interest. Men never grow out of their obsession with
toys. As they get older, their toys simply become more expensive and silly
and impractical. Examples of men's toys: little miniature TV's. Car phones.
Complicated juicers and blenders. Graphic equalizers.Small robots that serve
cocktails on command. Video games. Anything that blinks, beeps, and requires
at least 6 "D" batteries to operate.
PLANTS: A woman asks a man to water her plants while she is on vacation. The
man waters the plants. The woman comes home five or six days later to an
apartment full of dead plants. No one knows why this happens.
CAMERAS: Men take photography very seriously. They'll shell out $4000 for
state of the art equipment, and build dark rooms and take photography
classes. Women purchase Kodak Instamatics. Of course, women always end up
taking better pictures.
LOCKER ROOMS: In the locker room men talk about three things: money,
football, and women. They exaggerate about money, they don't know football
nearly as well as they think they do, and they fabricate stories about
women. Women talk about one thing in the locker -- sex. And not in abstract
terms, either. They are extremely graphic and technical, and they never lie.
GARAGES: Women use garages to park their cars and store their lawnmowers.
Men use garages for many things. They hang license plates in garages, they
watch TV in garages, and they build useless lopsided benches in garages.
MOVIES: Every actress in the history of movies has had to do a nude scene.
This is because every movie in the history of movies has been produced by a
man. The only actor who has ever appeared nude in the movies is Richard
Gere. This is another reason why men hate him.
JEWELRY: Women look nice when they wear jewelry. A man can get away with
wearing one ring and that's it. Any more than that and he will look like a
lounge singer named Vic.
SPORT ARENAS: Simply put, men can always find their way around stadiums and
arenas. The women usually end up following men.
TIME: When a woman says she'll be ready to go out in five more minutes,
she's using the same meaning of time as when a man says the football
games's just got five minutes left. Neither of them is counting time outs,
commercials, or replays.
CONVERSATION: Men need a good disagreement to get talking, e.g., "Wow, great
movie.", "What are you, nuts? No REAL cop would have an Uzi that size.",
"Well, maybe he got it because he knew about those Mafia guys", etc.
Women, not having this problem, try to initiate conversations with men by
saying something agreeable: "That garden by the roadside looks lovely." "Mm
hmm." Pause. "That was a good restaurant last night, wasn't it?" "Yeah."
Pause. And so on.
FRIENDS: Women on a girls' night out talk the whole time. Men on a boys'
night out say about twenty words all night, most of which are "Pass the
Doritos" or "Got any more beer?"
RESTROOMS: Men use restrooms for purely biological reasons. Women use
restrooms as social lounges. Men in a restrooms will never speak a word to
each other. Women who've never met will leave a restroom giggling together
like old friends. And never in the history of the world has a man excused
himself from a restaurant table by saying, "Hey, Tots, I was just about to
take a leak. Do you want to join me?"
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 02:23:00 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-ID:
FESeriously though, I got to the part where the reviewer thinks that Susan
FEShellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
FEpost fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
FEprofessionals of the new 'weaker sex'.
I have had, as "sub" a "third pillar of the world" type of man, and I
took great pleasure in showing him his proper position in the Universe.
"Third pillar of the world" indeed! Meaningless when matched against a
goddess.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 00:29:55 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <199606020729.AAA17418@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com
If women controlled the world, and all the politicians were female,
then submissive males wouldn't NEED to go to dominatrixes. They could
play the submissive role every day in real life. I think that would
be infinitely more arousing compared with playing the role only in the
bedroom.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:37:53 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <960602133753_405633883@emout15.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:
A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.
I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...
Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:38:01 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-ID: <960602133801_405633934@emout15.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-06-01 00:09:54 EDT, you write:
Someone else I know with ADD told me that if she had to have something
wrong with her, this was the thing because when
she gets going on something, she has this single-mindedness that helps
her finish things. OF COURSE, she said, it has to be something she likes
to do. She also mentioned that when she has sex, she focuses so totally
on it that her partners are in awe of her. ; ) Not such a bad thing.
Jet
You know, this is starting to sound familiar. I wonder if I might have ADD. I
think I will look some of this stuff up.
Damn, I'm learning something here. Who'd a thought it! (just joking! thanks,
Ladies!)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 96 20:22:57 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Trust. (Was: Re: off the original topic of women who rape)
Message-Id: <199606021821.UAA23672@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:37:53 -0400, Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...
Do you mean that you have a problem when it comes to trusting a domme?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 02:06:50 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606020906.CAA23335@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
---- Begin Forwarded Message
220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425 alt.women.supremacy:6294
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.
---- End Forwarded Message
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 89
Today's Topics:
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: Estrogen / Testosterone
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 07:50:29 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606021450.HAA03541@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
---- Begin Forwarded Message
220 6297 <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 11:46:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 176
Message-ID: <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 6:46:57 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33288 alt.women.supremacy:6297
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way. Men are
very nurturing toward women and the idea of taking care of a woman
is very sexually arousing to a man. Therefore men do it simply as
a way of stimulating themselves. The more nurturing a man feels,
the more subservient he feels, and the more subservient he feels,
the more sexually excited he gets. So husbands pamper their wives
to feel subservient, and thus to get sexually aroused. Men are
not only physcially weaker, they are mentally inferior in some
ways. Women are much better at mathematics and science; they are
more rational and better analytical thinkers. Men are more emotional
(internally and externally) and more intuitive. Again, men are
usually the sexual intitiators and fantasize a lot more about sex
than women do. Men's fantasies usually center on the physical
aspects of women, however, like making love to a tall, strong, very
attractive female. (Most of the females are tall, strong, and
attractive anyway -- the average adult female is 6'0" tall.) Or,
males' fantasies will involve pampering such a female. On the
other hand women's fantasies (when they have them) usually center
on the sex act and having intercourse with a well-endowed male.
Women tend to judge men on the size of their penises. Penile
enhancement is common. There are very few jobs for males over the
age of 25 or so, putting great pressure on men to find a wife.
Without a wife to support him, a man can be forced into very hard
menial work, such as waitering for 12 hour days (men don't do work
which requires considerable physical strength). Better off
unmarried men might find jobs as secretaries, nurses or teachers.
There is no pressure on women to marry early, so there is great
competition among men for female attention. Men like to marry
women between 3 and 7 years younger, however. Many men use the
extra time working as live-in nannies in childrearing centers,
for children from birth up to about 15 or 16 years old. Older
children have either been adopted or live in supervised dorms.
Men are aroused visually, and appreciate female beuaty. Women do
not have masculine features (despite their strength); instead,
they have feminine, but Amazonically feminine, features: the
ideal is big, strong, healthy, and stunningly attractive in a
powerful, yet still pretty, way. Men don't have to worry much
because they are surrounded by such beautiful women. On the other
hand, women do not assess males by their looks. Women judge men
basically by two things: 1) how good they are in bed (including
penile size) and 2) their honesty. Most women are not even
looking for a good househusband who can cook and clean better than
the others, because women aren't too picky. Women expect men
to do these things, but men attempt to excel at them for their
own reasons. Physically, men have the contours of the most
feminine earth women, except they have a penis instead of a vagina,
and have no breasts. Men also have facial and body hair, while
women lack hair on their faces and most of their bodies. Men
almost never grow beards but frequently grow a mustache. Men
usually wear their hair long and straight (while women usually
wear their hair medium-length and attractively styled). Men
like to dress in sexy clothes: tight pants and high heels are
common. Men will also wear clothes that reveal strategic areas
like the midriff. Men wear lingerie at night (but not gowns or
dresses). A lot of what men wear is black lace. As underwear,
men wear a kind of cross between a G-string and a jockstrap
(a jockstring?) Women's dress is more practical, but is
definitely designed to look attractive and enhance a woman's looks.
Straight-leg pants are popular, as are vests and flat-soled shoes.
Men design virtually all of the clothes for both sexes. Women's
major outlet of individuality is their hair: they enjoy styling
it, using headbands and ties, etc. For casual wear, women wear
a lot of shorts, and very short shorts are popular (probably
because men design their clothes and men love women's long legs!)
Athletic clothes are popular with women. For work, straight-leg
dress pants, shoes, a white shirt and short vest. Men buy the
clothes for their girlfriends and wives and tell them what to
wear.
The level of technology is very high. There are orbital
cities in space, spaceplanes, sky-cars, force-fields, lasers,
maglev monorails, etc. Women produce all of the technology
because only women understand what makes it work. Men's attitude
is that that they not only don't understand the technology, they
can't understand it because their brains aren't wired for "all
that math". Men are in constant awe of women for all the
incredible technological gadgets and advances they produce. Men
feel helpless with technological devices, and rely on women to
ensure that they work. This makes men feel very dependent on
women. This feeling of dependence on the female sex is very
strong, because of the importance of technology in the society.
However, males actually enjoy this feeling of dependence. They
admit to having no interest in science or technology, except
insofar as products will work. In fact, men are organized and
have a great deal of political power in the area of consumer
research and product development. There are special "Men Only
Votes" in which males vote on what types of products will be
researched and developed. The products voted on can range
anywhere from household appliances, to comfort-enhancing devices of
all types, to entertainment devices and even faster engines for
spaceplanes. Also included are the designs of cities, buildings,
residential satellites, etc. These votes are held locally,
regionally, and planet-wide. Men are thus empowered as consumers
to shape the world they live in and determine the comforts and
conveniences available, the aesthetics of their surroundings,
etc., limited only by the technologies that women can develop.
Women-dominated industries thus compete fiercely to sell their
ideas and developments to a male market, and househusbands are
lobbied by these industries, invited to trade shows, etc. If a
new city residential or shopping complex is being built, the various
design options are put to the men of the community in a series of
votes. Voting is done at home by computer (all homes are
equipped with a giant screen computer) and hundreds of design
options are flashed before the viewer. Even sky-cars are designed
this way, by consulting male consumers (even though very few men
fly them). Men enjoy this power and usually tell women the
system is justified saying things like "women know nothing about
what looks good...all they know is numbers and mathematical equations!"
Apart from their jobs, women are concerned mainly with sports -- as
spectators and as players. Almost every adult woman plays on
an organized team. The most popular sports on the planet are
basketball, volleyball, tennis, and rugby football. Women so a lot
of weightlifting -- not for mass, but mainly for strength. The
feminine ideal is a very toned physique, not the bulging muscles of
a bodybuilder. Men prefer tall, long-legged women with highly toned
physiques to bodybuilder types. Very few women look like bodybuilders;
most look like basketball players who work their arms and legs a lot
for firmness, strength, and some definition. The feminine ideal is
not skinny, either: it is strong-looking, healthy, and athletic.
---- End Forwarded Message
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 05:03:57 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606021203.FAA07447@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com
---- Begin Forwarded Message
220 6297 <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 11:46:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 176
Message-ID: <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 6:46:57 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33288 alt.women.supremacy:6297
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way. Men are
very nurturing toward women and the idea of taking care of a woman
is very sexually arousing to a man. Therefore men do it simply as
a way of stimulating themselves. The more nurturing a man feels,
the more subservient he feels, and the more subservient he feels,
the more sexually excited he gets. So husbands pamper their wives
to feel subservient, and thus to get sexually aroused. Men are
not only physcially weaker, they are mentally inferior in some
ways. Women are much better at mathematics and science; they are
more rational and better analytical thinkers. Men are more emotional
(internally and externally) and more intuitive. Again, men are
usually the sexual intitiators and fantasize a lot more about sex
than women do. Men's fantasies usually center on the physical
aspects of women, however, like making love to a tall, strong, very
attractive female. (Most of the females are tall, strong, and
attractive anyway -- the average adult female is 6'0" tall.) Or,
males' fantasies will involve pampering such a female. On the
other hand women's fantasies (when they have them) usually center
on the sex act and having intercourse with a well-endowed male.
Women tend to judge men on the size of their penises. Penile
enhancement is common. There are very few jobs for males over the
age of 25 or so, putting great pressure on men to find a wife.
Without a wife to support him, a man can be forced into very hard
menial work, such as waitering for 12 hour days (men don't do work
which requires considerable physical strength). Better off
unmarried men might find jobs as secretaries, nurses or teachers.
There is no pressure on women to marry early, so there is great
competition among men for female attention. Men like to marry
women between 3 and 7 years younger, however. Many men use the
extra time working as live-in nannies in childrearing centers,
for children from birth up to about 15 or 16 years old. Older
children have either been adopted or live in supervised dorms.
Men are aroused visually, and appreciate female beuaty. Women do
not have masculine features (despite their strength); instead,
they have feminine, but Amazonically feminine, features: the
ideal is big, strong, healthy, and stunningly attractive in a
powerful, yet still pretty, way. Men don't have to worry much
because they are surrounded by such beautiful women. On the other
hand, women do not assess males by their looks. Women judge men
basically by two things: 1) how good they are in bed (including
penile size) and 2) their honesty. Most women are not even
looking for a good househusband who can cook and clean better than
the others, because women aren't too picky. Women expect men
to do these things, but men attempt to excel at them for their
own reasons. Physically, men have the contours of the most
feminine earth women, except they have a penis instead of a vagina,
and have no breasts. Men also have facial and body hair, while
women lack hair on their faces and most of their bodies. Men
almost never grow beards but frequently grow a mustache. Men
usually wear their hair long and straight (while women usually
wear their hair medium-length and attractively styled). Men
like to dress in sexy clothes: tight pants and high heels are
common. Men will also wear clothes that reveal strategic areas
like the midriff. Men wear lingerie at night (but not gowns or
dresses). A lot of what men wear is black lace. As underwear,
men wear a kind of cross between a G-string and a jockstrap
(a jockstring?) Women's dress is more practical, but is
definitely designed to look attractive and enhance a woman's looks.
Straight-leg pants are popular, as are vests and flat-soled shoes.
Men design virtually all of the clothes for both sexes. Women's
major outlet of individuality is their hair: they enjoy styling
it, using headbands and ties, etc. For casual wear, women wear
a lot of shorts, and very short shorts are popular (probably
because men design their clothes and men love women's long legs!)
Athletic clothes are popular with women. For work, straight-leg
dress pants, shoes, a white shirt and short vest. Men buy the
clothes for their girlfriends and wives and tell them what to
wear.
The level of technology is very high. There are orbital
cities in space, spaceplanes, sky-cars, force-fields, lasers,
maglev monorails, etc. Women produce all of the technology
because only women understand what makes it work. Men's attitude
is that that they not only don't understand the technology, they
can't understand it because their brains aren't wired for "all
that math". Men are in constant awe of women for all the
incredible technological gadgets and advances they produce. Men
feel helpless with technological devices, and rely on women to
ensure that they work. This makes men feel very dependent on
women. This feeling of dependence on the female sex is very
strong, because of the importance of technology in the society.
However, males actually enjoy this feeling of dependence. They
admit to having no interest in science or technology, except
insofar as products will work. In fact, men are organized and
have a great deal of political power in the area of consumer
research and product development. There are special "Men Only
Votes" in which males vote on what types of products will be
researched and developed. The products voted on can range
anywhere from household appliances, to comfort-enhancing devices of
all types, to entertainment devices and even faster engines for
spaceplanes. Also included are the designs of cities, buildings,
residential satellites, etc. These votes are held locally,
regionally, and planet-wide. Men are thus empowered as consumers
to shape the world they live in and determine the comforts and
conveniences available, the aesthetics of their surroundings,
etc., limited only by the technologies that women can develop.
Women-dominated industries thus compete fiercely to sell their
ideas and developments to a male market, and househusbands are
lobbied by these industries, invited to trade shows, etc. If a
new city residential or shopping complex is being built, the various
design options are put to the men of the community in a series of
votes. Voting is done at home by computer (all homes are
equipped with a giant screen computer) and hundreds of design
options are flashed before the viewer. Even sky-cars are designed
this way, by consulting male consumers (even though very few men
fly them). Men enjoy this power and usually tell women the
system is justified saying things like "women know nothing about
what looks good...all they know is numbers and mathematical equations!"
Apart from their jobs, women are concerned mainly with sports -- as
spectators and as players. Almost every adult woman plays on
an organized team. The most popular sports on the planet are
basketball, volleyball, tennis, and rugby football. Women so a lot
of weightlifting -- not for mass, but mainly for strength. The
feminine ideal is a very toned physique, not the bulging muscles of
a bodybuilder. Men prefer tall, long-legged women with highly toned
physiques to bodybuilder types. Very few women look like bodybuilders;
most look like basketball players who work their arms and legs a lot
for firmness, strength, and some definition. The feminine ideal is
not skinny, either: it is strong-looking, healthy, and athletic.
---- End Forwarded Message
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:08:16 GMT
From: Len Bounds
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Estrogen / Testosterone
Message-Id: <199606021308.NAA01879@mailhost.worldnet.att.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time! Great and thanks.
It was mostly true except for the cat part.
I still bawl my eyes out when I lose a cat. They are so much like people.
Len
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:27:27 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <31B2154F.681A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia
Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:
A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.
I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...
Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 90
Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Fwd: Kiss my boots
Re: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Lurker Leaps In
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:31:57 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-ID: <31B2165D.1F0B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TONY: I don't know if you are a man or a woman...but my advice is for
you to stop writing and go home and take care of your DOM
patricia
Tony wrote:
---- Begin Forwarded Message
220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425 alt.women.supremacy:6294
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.
---- End Forwarded Message
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 00:30:46 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960603003046.00672894@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tony wrote THREE TIMES!!:
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. ETCETERA....
I wish you well Tony. The outline is a little obvious in places, but well
though out. I'd like to read the finished novel.
Please only send one copy though. :)
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:36:51 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Message-Id: <199606030236.TAA07303@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com(Laura Goodwin)
Newsgroups: alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Kiss my boots
In <199606021616.SAA18184@basement.replay.com
Etaoin.Shrdlu@basement.replay.com writes:
In article <31ACE2AE.4BDB@infinet.com,
Scott Isaacs
Second of all, you should not use this Bible verse at the end of your
post because it sounds very much like you are telling everyone that
if they seek you they will find you. You DO NOT use God's most holy
Word for your small and insignificant mortal purposes and/or agenda.
I see. I presume it is OK to use it to spread bigotry, hatred and war,
however?
LOL Right on, brother!
Boy, I haven't gotten this much attention since I bought those new
boots! ;)
What my .sig is about is:
a) I'm actually familiar with the Bible, and
b) I'm comfortable with some things in it.
Make of that what you will. :)
BTW, did you know that the first clothes approved by God were made of
animal skins? [Genesis 3:21] ;)
That God disapproved of wool-blend garments? [Leviticus 19:19]
That means that my new boots are more pleasing to the God of the Bible
than Pat Nixon's Republican cloth coat (unless it was made with real
Republicans...)! ;)
--
Laura Goodwin <--- that friendly Hartford, CT lady
"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me."
(Proverbs 8:17)
---- End Forwarded Message
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 96 05:07:20 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Message-Id: <199606030306.FAA02591@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:36:51 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
Boy, I haven't gotten this much attention since I bought those new
boots! ;)
:)
What my .sig is about is:
a) I'm actually familiar with the Bible, and
b) I'm comfortable with some things in it.
That's how I feel about it too. It's the Ralph Reeds and Religious
Reichs of the World, that give Christianity a bad name.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 01:37:25 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com, femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Lurker Leaps In
Message-ID: <31B2A445.2431@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 06:51:05 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-Id: <199606031351.GAA14948@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
Spirit Wind wrote:
After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments.
Well! :) Welcome to the conversation, SW, and I appreciated your post
very much.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 10:15:05 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-ID: <31B31D99.6EF2@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nice going Spirit Wind...nice to hear your voice added too.
Patricia
Thomas Hughes wrote:
After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.
Spirit Wind
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:28:04 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031428.KAA21066@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:43 AM 6/1/96 -0700, you wrote:
I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).
I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!
Laura.....this is ashame, perhaps your sub-hub should learn the art of oral
gratification. Putting YOUR needs FIRST. Let me know if you need a teacher :)
I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.
If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:52:54 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606031452.KAA21275@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:06 AM 6/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
---- Begin Forwarded Message
220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425
alt.women.supremacy:6294
I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.
i find this quite stupid.....why don't you say on this planet women are
men and men are women. i would much rather read what is going on in this
world today. Men realize the power women have over men and are submitting to
it in record number. Men think with there penis which clouds there mind. If
ALL women realized this the way this group has and take controll by using
there femininity, the world would be a better place.
---- End Forwarded Message
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:03:21 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-Id: <199606031503.LAA21398@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:27 PM 6/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia
Ms. Patricia, as a sub i find it hard to talk to a Dom. i never want to
presume to tell the Dom what i like or dislike. She is the one to take me
past my limmits if she so desires. i found by using a safe word has worked
for me in the past. All the talking in the world will never insure my safety
once i am in a vulnerable situation. i just wish i could find one owner so i
wouldn't have to worry about that.......mark
Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:
A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.
I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...
Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #90
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 91
Today's Topics:
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
unsubscribe
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Am
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:28:07 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031428.KAA21070@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:43 AM 6/1/96 -0700, you wrote:
I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).
I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more attentive to
your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he needs a teacher, let
me know!
I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.
If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:21:31 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-Id: <199606031521.LAA21641@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:37 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.
Spirit Wind
Let me tell you, you are not alone. Every successfull marrage i know is a
FemDom relationship, whether they realize it or not. i just wish i had
learned of this before my divorce. Since then i have experienced being truly
subservient to a woman and it is liberating to get rid of this male ego
hangup that ruined my marrage.........mark
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:33:24 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031533.IAA22887@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!
Oh, please, this was not very funny.
My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 11:53:50 -0400
From: Matt Garrett <1indiana@norfolk.infi.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B30A8E.FD3@norfolk.infi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
unsubcribe
Thank you. Matt.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:01:53 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031701.NAA22507@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:33 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!
Oh, please, this was not very funny.
My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.
Good point!!, can't blame me for trying......: ), mark
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:52:36 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Am
Message-ID:
Even STUPIDER is that I received this maximally verbose post *FOUR*
times. Very much like junk mail.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031818.LAA00338@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1369
Laura Goodwin wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!
Oh, please, this was not very funny.
My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.
Why is it that, often, when a woman mentions something about her
sexuality like not having multiple orgasms, or something else she does
not do or enjoy, men she doesn't even know love to chime in out of
nowhere, "But if you did it with _me_...!" I've had guys tell me I'd
like being spanked if _they_ did it. These same guys won't generally
leave you alone until you tell them for about the 10th time to piss
off. No, it's not funny at all, considering how frequently it
happens.
Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:59:18 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <960603145912_126817207@emout10.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-06-02 15:33:49 EDT, you write:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia
I have alwyas felt that the bond between a Mistress and her slave is much
more powerful than the typical male/female pairing (boyfriend/girlfriend,
etc.). Part of it is that incredible trust.
I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits and
make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:24:21 +0200
From: silver heart
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-ID:
I like your idea, but I have some criticisms.
first, is your goal to project an ideal society, or is your
goal to expose the weaknesses and stereotypes of the current
society? yes, it is possible to combine these, but there
will be junctures where they conflict, and then you need to
choose one over the other, and you must do this consistently.
I think your outline is not consistent about this.
for example, you prescribe a lot of physical ideals and
clothing ideals that everybody in your utopian society adhere
to. while I am mostly in agreement with your ideals, and
certainly would greatly prefer them to current trends, I am
uneasy about the absolutism you put onto them. it is simply
not possible to have everyone agree to or adhere to ideals
like these, nor is it desirable -- diversity and liberty are
valuable in any society (but as a major trend, among others,
your ideals are (mostly) fine).
I take two exceptions to your ideals. first, I like the
huge, massive bodybuilder type of women. these are heroes of
the gender frontier, they should be respected and honored,
and they would certainly exist in a gender radical Amazonian
utopia.
second, I see no reason that men should be stupid and unable
to have and develop intellectual interests and pursuits.
unless you want to make a point that gender stereotypes can
encourage stupidity. that is, you'd have to consistently
choose exposing the weaknesses and stereotypes of the current
society as your goal for the novel. but this conflicts with
your positive and utopian vision of the Amazons. also, you
risk that many people will be turned off by your vision:
why should your male reader have to choose between his
intelligence and an Amazonian utopia? isn't intelligence a
requirement for him in the first place, if he is to be able
to envision and embrace an Amazonian utopia?
having said all that, I want to make a general point about
100 %, 180 degrees gender role reversed utopias -- the
variations of the gender role anti-thesis. these are often
accused of being simplistic, stupid, without merit and such.
"all you did was changing the men with the women and vice
versa". instead one is often encouraged to find and develop
some other alternative that is beyond both the stereotypes
and their anti-thesis. while such alternatives certainly are
both interesting and necessary, I think that the exact
anti-thesis, when well written or composed, is also of great
value. an example of this is Gerd Brantenberg's novel
_Egalia's daughters_, another is a Star Trek episode from a
gender role reversed planet, etc.
in fact, the idea of gender role anti-thesis is very radical.
it places hidden assumptions about gender in the wide open,
and by reversing them, it reveals their *arbitrariness*.
therefore, the gender role anti-thesis will always be a
radical idea: it takes that which consists of hidden
asssumptions (and which therefore, for many people, even for
many of those in opposition to it, has the status of being
"natural"), and, by reversing it, reveals that it is just an
artifact. therefore, the gender role anti-thesis will always
provoke fear and anger, sometimes even among them who
consider themselves liberal, educated or radical.
---
silver heart
"A hard woman is good to find" -- The Valkyries
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-Id: <199606032026.NAA15620@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia (Noble) wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Lonely2001 wrote:
I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits
and make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.
As Patricia said, it's incredibly important for both the dominant and the
submissive to take time and build trust with one another _before_ getting
too far along with the D/s relationship. For reasons of physical safety on
both sides, and to prevent bitterness if not actual emotional harm. There's
always limits, regardless of what some people (dominant and submissive) may
say on the subject. (Would a submissive suffer death or maiming for the
Mistress, or abandon (or even slay) their child for the dominant, or commit
crimes and go to jail for them? Should he or she be expected to? Some
dominants (mostly male) and slaves would say so. Personally, I disagree.)
Without going to such extremes, it's still critical that both people know
what the others limits are, and that they can be trusted with them. Why?
Someone on this list posted about the sub who willingly allowed himself to
be restrained, and was then raped by several people. That sub -may- have
said, "I'll do anything, Mistress", implying a total lack of limits, in
essence saying that the mistress had a right to allow others to use him for
sex. Quite possibly, limits, safewords and what was considered permissible
behaviors were never discussed. Or the dominant ignored such 'niceties' and
simply imposed her will, regardless of what had been negotiated.
Odds are that if they'd taken more time to get to know one another, it would
never have happened. The dominant might've learned that the sub, either from
inexperience or deceitfulness, did have limits and reservations that hadn't
been expressed, or the sub might've learned that his limits weren't likely to
be respected and honored. There's definate risks on both sides - the sub,
with more immediate physical and psychological dangers as the one typically
at the other's mercy, the domme usually running a risk of various forms of
recrimination, whether physical, legal, or emotional.
Again - without such extremes : Presuming both a domme and submissive are
decent people who aren't out to cause serious harm to one another, knowing
one another's limits / inclinations would seem vital, at least if a serious
relationship is the intent. If one is incredibly into pain/humiliation/
whatever and the other is inalterably opposed, most likely the two are going
to learn the hard way. At least one is likely to be hurt or saddened when
the relationship ends.
And even if you acknowledge that dominant has the right to push or even go
past at least some of the sub's stated limits, I'd think it's good to know
that -if- an owner chooses to push or ignore a limit, it's not without some
thought, some knowledge of what the aftereffects may be. That if, perhaps,
she allows other to sexually use the submissive, she's taking care that risk
of sexually transmitted disease is minimized, that she's ensuring that no
significant physical damage is inflicted, and that she thinks some benefit
(even her own pleasure) will outweigh potential harm to the submissive. A
matter of caring, affection, compassion and/or honor, on the dominant's part.
Without taking time to get to know one another, to communicate and negotiate,
how can you know whether compassion, honor, or anything else, will keep the
other person from using and abusing you, and then tossing you away? On one
hand, I -do- think women are more trustworthy then men in such matters. I've
seen male dominants who, imo, shouldn't be trusted with a plant, much less a
pet or submissive. Something about the types of men who're often drawn to
domhood, perhaps - it props their ego, reinforces their masculinity, and,
most of all, allows them to simply order someone to get them a beer, do the
cleaning, and sexually service them w/o any illusion of reciprocity - the
perfect one-way relationship.
I rarely see the same thing in dominant women, for some reason.... ;-) For
much the same reason, I tend, -in general-, to trust women in positions of
power or authority more then I do men. Women seem to rarely strive for power
or dominance solely for the purpose of amassing power, or to abuse it. Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.
A typical woman politician tends to think about what effect her legislation
is going to have on the public, on children, the environment, what the real
benefits are versus the cost. Same thing with an individual dominant female;
I think she's more likely to consider the consequences of her desires, on her
submissive, on herself, on others, and to balance the benefits or pleasure
against the cost. But with neither politicians or potential Dommes would I
want to trust to luck or probability that it was the case. ;
(Heh. I think I've rambled enough in my effort to tie in social issues of
female supremacy here
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 92
Today's Topics:
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Policeforce.
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
[Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
Harassing women on the net.
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Policeforce
unsubscribe
Pro-choice internet action
Thoughtful answer Lawless (great name too)...and brings me back to my
favorite personal quote.."I may be dangerous, but I am not evil."
patricia
Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
Patricia (Noble) wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Lonely2001 wrote:
I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits
and make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.
As Patricia said, it's incredibly important for both the dominant and the
submissive to take time and build trust with one another _before_ getting
too far along with the D/s relationship. For reasons of physical safety on
both sides, and to prevent bitterness if not actual emotional harm. There's
always limits, regardless of what some people (dominant and submissive) may
say on the subject. (Would a submissive suffer death or maiming for the
Mistress, or abandon (or even slay) their child for the dominant, or commit
crimes and go to jail for them? Should he or she be expected to? Some
dominants (mostly male) and slaves would say so. Personally, I disagree.)
Without going to such extremes, it's still critical that both people know
what the others limits are, and that they can be trusted with them. Why?
Someone on this list posted about the sub who willingly allowed himself to
be restrained, and was then raped by several people. That sub -may- have
said, "I'll do anything, Mistress", implying a total lack of limits, in
essence saying that the mistress had a right to allow others to use him for
sex. Quite possibly, limits, safewords and what was considered permissible
behaviors were never discussed. Or the dominant ignored such 'niceties' and
simply imposed her will, regardless of what had been negotiated.
Odds are that if they'd taken more time to get to know one another, it would
never have happened. The dominant might've learned that the sub, either from
inexperience or deceitfulness, did have limits and reservations that hadn't
been expressed, or the sub might've learned that his limits weren't likely to
be respected and honored. There's definate risks on both sides - the sub,
with more immediate physical and psychological dangers as the one typically
at the other's mercy, the domme usually running a risk of various forms of
recrimination, whether physical, legal, or emotional.
Again - without such extremes : Presuming both a domme and submissive are
decent people who aren't out to cause serious harm to one another, knowing
one another's limits / inclinations would seem vital, at least if a serious
relationship is the intent. If one is incredibly into pain/humiliation/
whatever and the other is inalterably opposed, most likely the two are going
to learn the hard way. At least one is likely to be hurt or saddened when
the relationship ends.
And even if you acknowledge that dominant has the right to push or even go
past at least some of the sub's stated limits, I'd think it's good to know
that -if- an owner chooses to push or ignore a limit, it's not without some
thought, some knowledge of what the aftereffects may be. That if, perhaps,
she allows other to sexually use the submissive, she's taking care that risk
of sexually transmitted disease is minimized, that she's ensuring that no
significant physical damage is inflicted, and that she thinks some benefit
(even her own pleasure) will outweigh potential harm to the submissive. A
matter of caring, affection, compassion and/or honor, on the dominant's part.
Without taking time to get to know one another, to communicate and negotiate,
how can you know whether compassion, honor, or anything else, will keep the
other person from using and abusing you, and then tossing you away? On one
hand, I -do- think women are more trustworthy then men in such matters. I've
seen male dominants who, imo, shouldn't be trusted with a plant, much less a
pet or submissive. Something about the types of men who're often drawn to
domhood, perhaps - it props their ego, reinforces their masculinity, and,
most of all, allows them to simply order someone to get them a beer, do the
cleaning, and sexually service them w/o any illusion of reciprocity - the
perfect one-way relationship.
I rarely see the same thing in dominant women, for some reason.... ;-) For
much the same reason, I tend, -in general-, to trust women in positions of
power or authority more then I do men. Women seem to rarely strive for power
or dominance solely for the purpose of amassing power, or to abuse it. Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.
A typical woman politician tends to think about what effect her legislation
is going to have on the public, on children, the environment, what the real
benefits are versus the cost. Same thing with an individual dominant female;
I think she's more likely to consider the consequences of her desires, on her
submissive, on herself, on others, and to balance the benefits or pleasure
against the cost. But with neither politicians or potential Dommes would I
want to trust to luck or probability that it was the case. ;
(Heh. I think I've rambled enough in my effort to tie in social issues of
female supremacy here
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:37:18 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606032237.SAA26163@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:18 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura Goodwin wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!
Oh, please, this was not very funny.
My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.
Why is it that, often, when a woman mentions something about her
sexuality like not having multiple orgasms, or something else she does
not do or enjoy, men she doesn't even know love to chime in out of
nowhere, "But if you did it with _me_...!" I've had guys tell me I'd
like being spanked if _they_ did it. These same guys won't generally
leave you alone until you tell them for about the 10th time to piss
off. No, it's not funny at all, considering how frequently it
happens.
Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.
Dee-Ann
Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!
!!___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 03:04:18 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606040102.DAA21143@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:01:53 -0400, mark wrote:
At 08:33 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!
Oh, please, this was not very funny.
My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
Good point!!, can't blame me for trying......: ), mark
I do think we can! In my humble opinion you have insulted both Laura
and her husband, and the least you could do is apologize.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 03:00:00 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606040058.CAA20822@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.
I think this a most tastless generalization, and I resent it! Produce
the evidence please. There a are most likely a few bad apples, but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the force.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606040157.SAA00642@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 823
mark wrote:
Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!
Take some advice from me, mark. Your comment to Laura was
unacceptable. Your comment about "can't blame me for trying" was also
unacceptable, after all you made the statement, hence it was your
"fault" as it were.
The women on this list aren't here for you to throw lines at. This is
a _Femsupremacy_ list. Stop being a jerk or you're out.
Dee-Ann
Who, after an exhausting day, and reading e-mail from another idiot
who is rather lamely attempting to harass me, has very little
patience.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:58:42 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
Message-ID: <31B3D092.7C9B@tiac.net
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--
MZê
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from mailserver1.tiac.net [199.0.65.232]
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----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to davinci.renaissoft.com.:
RCPT To:
<<< 550
550
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:52:37 -0700
From: Noble
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I)
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every time I answer Magnus I think I am sending to list, but instead
they go to him...of course, then Magnus hears from me twice as often and
that can only make for a better day.
patricia
--
MZê
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:50:26 -0700
From: Noble
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
References: <199606040114.DAA23060@mailbox.swip.net
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Magnus, Magnus, Magnus...you are a brat...(charming) but still a
brat...they say the same thing...and if I said it .. each time I said it
is the right way to say it. We have a rule in my house: I am never
wrong, and if it ever appears that I am wrong..it is only the exception
that proves the rule...that I am never wrong.
Patricia
but you are paying alot of attention to almost everything I say..have
you written it down somewhere..of course I can't blame you...for
admiring my brilliance.
Magnus Thelander wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jun 1996 16:42:36 -0700, Noble wrote:
favorite personal quote.."I may be dangerous, but I am not evil."
The one I copied out of your sig. with your permission reads:
"You don't have to be evil to be dangerous."
---Mistress Patricia
Did I or you get it wrong?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
MZê
--------------381F21764348--
--WAA00169.833857016/maildeliver3.tiac.net--
--------------151443A97497--
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 08:31:43 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606040634.IAA23510@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
Who, after an exhausting day, and reading e-mail from another idiot
who is rather lamely attempting to harass me, has very little
patience.
Why are men compelled to do this?
I may not agree with all of the few (compared to the number of men)
women, who are connected, but I do appreciate their input, and I think
more women need to claim their place in the cyberspace community and not
let the boys use this as their playpen.
This kind of behavior really makes me feel shame on the behalf of these
men :(.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 05:44:33 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606041244.FAA17809@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.
Dee-Ann
Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!
Thank you for you comments Dee-Ann. Mark, it is you who should be
learning something from this.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 05:54:44 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Policeforce
Message-Id: <199606041254.FAA18155@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
Cops for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks
or bullies in school
but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the
force.
Alas, Magnus, that may be true in Sweden, but not here in the U.S. I
agree that all would-be cops should show they are not violent, not
prejudiced against minorities, that their reason for joining the force
is to serve and protect...
There is an epidemic of harassment and brutal treatment of minorities
by cops in the U.S. right now, and they must be classed as state
sanctioned bullies, or else more would be done to stop them. It's a
disgrace! It's a stain of shame on the face of the white race here.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:41:53 -0400
From: Matt Garrett <1indiana@norfolk.infi.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B45941.7F43@norfolk.infi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
forgive me folks, but how do I
unsubscribe from this forum. My
mailer can no longer handle the
volume. Thank you. I have enjoyed the
information. Matt.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:35:37 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606041535.IAA06245@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
In a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
please read, sign and pass this along.
FREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
Subject: abortion on the Internet
As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
into law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
heavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
citizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.
This e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
sign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
as possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
every e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
can also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
a similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
opposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
resisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
speech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
President Clinton at
something done this.
_________________________________________________________________
I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.
1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT
** End of text from cdp:wilpf.hotline **
***********************************************************************
This material came from PeaceNet, a non-profit progressive networking
service. For more information, send a message to
peacenet-info@igc.apc.org
***********************************************************************
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #92
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 93
Today's Topics:
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Policeforce
Re: Policeforce.
Re: Harassing women on the net.
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Tantra catalog
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:58:24 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B48750.3471@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia
Laura Goodwin wrote:
** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
In a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
please read, sign and pass this along.
FREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
Subject: abortion on the Internet
As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
into law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
heavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
citizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.
This e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
sign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
as possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
every e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
can also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
a similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
opposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
resisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
speech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
President Clinton at
something done this.
_________________________________________________________________
I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.
1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT
** End of text from cdp:wilpf.hotline **
*********************************************************************** This material came from PeaceNet, a non-profit progressive networking
service. For more information, send a message to
peacenet-info@igc.apc.org
***********************************************************************
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:23:06 -0400
From: SubFcheryl@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Policeforce
Message-ID: <960604122303_406968062@emout19.mail.aol.com
During the early 70's, former Justice of the Supreme Court, Thurgood
Marshall, had to view an "art film" (now a classic pornographic movie) as
part of case the Supreme Court was hearing on obscenity laws. As the
justices were leaving the viewing room set up in the Courts building, a
reporter asked Mr Marshall if the movie had swayed his opin of the courts
views on obscenity. To which the justice replied, "After viewing the film. I
still cannot define obscenity, but now I know what it is when I see it."
Police officers, of all sizes, shades and sexes come under a lot of fire,
most probably don't join the force to have a cover to enforce a personal
agenda. They are only human and undoubtedly fall victim to sterotyping
peoples and areas. Unfortunately, this sometimes results in their utilizing
excessive force in retaliation for the frustration over an inability of the
present legal system to ensure justice. I would not concern myself over the
psyciatric profile of the "new" poice officer as I would the seasoned one who
has felt betrayal and frustration. Bigots are bigots. We are all to one
extent prejudice, it is a result of how we are raised and the true crux of
the matter is how we treat individuals. If we allow our prejudices to
influence the way we treat people, then we wronged. "Let he amongst you
without sin cast the first stone."
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606041746.KAA02545@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I think this a most tastless generalization, and I resent it! Produce
the evidence please. There a are most likely a few bad apples, but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the force.
Heh. "Evidence" in such matters is rather hard to produce, wouldn't you
agree Magnus? It's kinda like a survey asking people if they beat their
spouses - an overwhelming majority are -not- going to say "Yes" no matter
what. But I think I can give some basis for my tasteless generalizations,
as well as some commentary on what you've said, an' what I perceive as
coloring your perception.
Firstly - you're over in northern europe, an' I really do think your police
force is quite dissimilar from what's found in america. You seem to think
that psychological exams are given to prospective law enforcement types
here.... And that's in general untrue, with the exception of certain 'elite'
outfits such as FBI & CIA. It's almost impossible to require an american
citizen in good standing to take such an exam - if a person has a reasonably
clean police record, passes an placement test type exam and meets certain
minimum educational standards, they can join the police force. Americans
tend to view even physical examinations (such as urinalysis tests for drug
use) as somewhat unconstitutional, never mind letting someone poke around
inside our brains. It's basically the same thing as the military, in that
sense.
Now, did I make a tastless generalization? "... guys who join the force were
often football jocks or bullies in school, and see policehood as an extension
of that - get paid to be macho, with an excuse to beat on people at will."
Hmmm, I guess from a certain perspective I did. *shrugs* I did say "were
-often-", even if I didn't stress the word, and I will stand by the statement
as a whole.
I haven't been a cop, myself.... But I spent 8 years in the marines, which
is in some ways quite similar. (Speaking from personal experience, and from
talking with both military and civilian police) Neither vocation tends to
draw very many pacifists, for the simple reason that neither is a career in
which one can reasonably expect to avoid violence - quite the contrary. For
individuals with aggresive, violent tendencies, _both_ provide an environment
where that aggression is, if not encouraged, then at least accepted. In fact,
they're a few of the rare vocations where those tendencies can be harnessed
for society's benefit, even if society doesn't approve of the traits.
Both law enforcement and the military are somewhat isolationist, viewing
themselves apart from the civilian population, having more in common with one
another than with the general populace. They hold themselves to standards
of behavior that are in many ways much more rigorous than civilian standards,
and both tend to do most of the socializing within their own kind.
For police it's even worse than for military - as the saying goes, no-one
wants a cop to come to their party. Too much suspicion that when they get
drunk and gossip or brag about breaking some minor law that the cop will take
official notice, too much discomfort with having an officer there when some
of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as
a cop walks by - too many adults doing the same. There really aren't all
that many reasons to take up the police force as a career, when compared to
all the reasons not to....
So, certain types tend to join, more than others. The ones, male or female,
who are determined to prove themselves better than where they came from. I
see this most often in minority officers, who often make examples of them-
selves to hopefully inspire other youngsters to do something worthwhile with
their lives. The ones who simply can't fit into civilian life, who want a
certain level of discipline in their lives, a certain sense of camaraderie
with those they work - ex-military, oftentimes. Ones who simply the force
as a paycheck, a better job than others they could get with their skills,
regardless of the drawbacks.
And yes - the ones who, as I said, want the power, want the violence, the
feeling of belong to an elite fraternity, who to one extent or another enjoy
the nervous, respectful reactions of the crowds, and the knowledge that they
can respond enthusiastically to disrespect. It's why we have so many state
troopers and sheriffs in rural parts of the country whose first instinct in
a situation is to crack some heads, why you can see televised video-clips of
police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.
A certain amount of them simply like knowing that most innocent, respectable
people will call them "Sir" when asked a question.
Power tends to attract those who want power, and policemen have power. In
my opinion, law enforcement, like politics, attracts a disproportionate
number of people (mostly men) who are there for that power, for the perks,
for the right to use/abuse that power, just as certain other professions such
as doctors, lawyers and profession sports tend to attract those motivated by
greed, and why 'sheep' tend to take up average jobs, living ho-hum average
lifes, for a lack of ambition, good or bad. My "tasteless generalizations"
aren't against policemen per se, Magnus. They're against humanity in general,
and MANkind most of all. (And I'll wager this time I offended more than the
police - because people will interpret something I said in reverse
But.... A violent, aggressive, testerone driven person joining the police
force isn't necessarily such a bad thing - it can actually be noble, even
the best possible choice. Ditto for the military. Either way, there does
need to be at least a crude morality, a sense of honor or discipline, that
keeps that hostility in check until it is called for. Sadly, that's often
missing.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- A cynic is an idealist with a few too many years experience.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606041830.LAA06633@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Magnus writes, regarding mark and others harassing/hitting on women on the
net, and with a vicious "Reply-to:" line in his headers Why are men compelled to do this?
Ahem. Men aren't. -Some- men are compelled to, or otherwise do these
stupid obnoxious tasteless things. Many others don't.
This kind of behavior really makes me feel shame on the behalf of these
men :(.
This is a logic I have never understood : Second-hand shame. Magnus, you
didn't indulge in this behavior. Neither did I, nor did we encourage it or
even silently ignore / accept it. Why should you feel shame? Anger at the
men who do so, or disgust or disdain, I could understand...
Too often people are expected to assume guilt, to feel ashamed, of things
they had nothing to do with. A person is herself or himself, responsible
for their actions and thoughts, not for those of their ancestors, gender,
race or religion. We all carry our own karmic burden.
If men harass women, and abuse them, I am not guilty of the same. Even if
I were standing there watching, I shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed
because of their actions. If I could have stopped it, could have spoken
out against it, and wanted to but didn't, then I'm guilty - but of cowardice
or sloth, for not doing what I thought was right. If you or I couldn't do
anything, there's no reason for shame....
But all too often, a person -can- do something, but doesn't, for fear of the
consequences. In which case, perhaps they're guilty of more than the active
offender, who may not be capable of being better than she or he is.
Heh. I seem to be in danger of becoming an amateur philosopher here. ;-
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Philosopher : Someone with too much time on his hands, and not nearly
-- enough callouses.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 20:04:18 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960604200418.006889a0@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:58 04/06/96 -0700, you wrote:
I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia
I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk. I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.
But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.
I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.
I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.
I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.
David Stevenson (nee Harley).
snip. snip.
Dear Mr. President,
As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.
UNTIL NOW!
I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.
Why should this concern me, a resident of another country?
Quite simply because it restricts my ability to hold a free conversation by
Email with friends who are US citizens! I can talk to them, but they cannot
answer.
Email is the modern equivalent of the ordinary letter post.
Would you consider making it illegal for US citizens to discuss such matters
in ordinary letters to each other through the mail? perhaps you already have!
It seems to me that the United States is fast becoming like some third world
fascist dictatorship.
Will you arrest my friends for simply being in receipt of my mail? If not,
your bill is a sad farce!
Will you be requiring women to wear a veil in public next?
sincerely shocked,
David Harley, British Citizen, Portugal.(a country which still has freedom
of speech!)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:06:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606041906.MAA08094@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
Patricia wrote:
...a better strategy would be to go find sites that tell people to
read the bible and turn them into the FCC..let them spend their money
hiring lawyers to defend themselves from the Telecommunications
ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
I call it tilting at windmills. I don't honestly think that we'll have
any success in banning the Bible anytime soon. All the fundies have to
do if somebody complains about Biblical references to abortion is to
shrug and say, "...but it's the *Bible*!" Case dismissed as frivolous.
Next case. Would any lamb be found innocent if the wolves were
judges? How about any wolf?
We don't *favor* banning and censorship, remember? We have to employ
different tactics. Constitutionally protected tactics like petitioning
for a redress of grievences, for example. What that legislation
purports to do is to rob us of heretofore Constitutionally protected
free speech. Use it, or lose it. No rights are worth the paper they
are written on if we don't continually fight to preserve them. There
are lots of way to do this. Pick one. Even a hopelessly Quixotic one.
:)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:09:12 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B4B408.7F58@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Go to one of my Webpages at:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C. U.S.
government..every house member, every senate member
pat
Christine & David Stevenson wrote:
At 11:58 04/06/96 -0700, you wrote:
I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia
I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk. I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.
But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.
I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.
I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.
I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.
David Stevenson (nee Harley).
snip. snip.
Dear Mr. President,
As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.
UNTIL NOW!
I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.
Why should this concern me, a resident of another country?
Quite simply because it restricts my ability to hold a free conversation by
Email with friends who are US citizens! I can talk to them, but they cannot
answer.
Email is the modern equivalent of the ordinary letter post.
Would you consider making it illegal for US citizens to discuss such matters
in ordinary letters to each other through the mail? perhaps you already have!
It seems to me that the United States is fast becoming like some third world
fascist dictatorship.
Will you arrest my friends for simply being in receipt of my mail? If not,
your bill is a sad farce!
Will you be requiring women to wear a veil in public next?
sincerely shocked,
David Harley, British Citizen, Portugal.(a country which still has freedom
of speech!)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:06:20 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606042006.NAA03560@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com
Pat wrote:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C.
Hey, thanks a lot! :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 16:17:10 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B4C3F6.1327@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Your welcome, I am a very politically active FemDOM
Patricia
Laura Goodwin wrote:
Pat wrote:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C.
Hey, thanks a lot! :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:01:39 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <960604180138_127823127@emout19.mail.aol.com
Ralph Richter, Columbus OH
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: Tantra catalog
Message-Id: <199606042248.PAA21671@netcom15.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1002
I'm back from three days in the mountains (where it wasn't the 112 F /
45 degrees C that it is here) and find I have about 100 pieces of mail.
Among was an them an online catalog of Tantra and related books, tapes,
videos, products, etc.
I just forwarded the catalog to Dee for the Resources archive, but a faster
way probably to get your copy would be to write to
catalog@tantra.com
and ask for it. (NB: it's about 27K of ASCII text, one reason why I didn't
re-post it here.)
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #93
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 94
Today's Topics:
Jurisdiction, restrictions on elec. comm. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Trust (was off the original topic of women who rape)
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Police Lover
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Police Lover
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
if you cannot get to email
Pro-choice internet action
Re: Police, etc.
The down-and-dirty tactics of the totalitarian religious right!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 02:20:19 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Jurisdiction, restrictions on elec. comm. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606050018.CAA24254@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:35:37 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
As repulsive as this law may be, it has no jurisdiction outside of the
U.S.A., so it's not illegal 'to discuss abortion anywhere on the
internet'. In theory I could be extradited for writing indecent words like
shit and piss here in Sweden, and then sending it electronically to the
U.S.A., since I believe Sweden has a reciprocal extradition agreement with
the U.S.A., but in practice that most likely won't happen, since this is
such a minor crime.
The Swedish minister responsible for issues regarding IT (Ines Uusmann)
has stated publically, that she considers it to be neither desirable nor
possible to censor the internet. I'm not so sure that the EC shares her
conviction though, since e.g. Germany has a lot of influence on the
decisions made there, so there is still a danger of a similar restriction
being imposed on electronic communication in Europe.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:05:13 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Trust (was off the original topic of women who rape)
Message-ID: <31B4DD49.6260@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Noble wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia
Patricia--
That is it exactly. Also when a sub says when asked what his/her limits are:
"I have NO limits," is asking for trouble. Even though the sub I was referring
to had been into the scene for over 5-6 years, he was with someone he did not
know very well and she did not respect his limits or boundaries. It's very hard
to express limits and boundaries when one is bound and gagged, and especially
so if the Domme/Dom doesn't respect the signals...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 02:34:06 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605023406.0068dccc@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:09 04/06/96 -0700, Pat wrote:
Go to one of my Webpages at:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C. U.S.
government..every house member, every senate member
pat
I have asked the agora server to bring more home page text. From there I
will begin to collect addresses and send out the mail.
I imagine you've all seen the auto response from the Whitehouse so I will
not waste your band width with it.
But it does give two other Email addresses, VP, and First Lady.
Regards,
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:38:46 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Police Lover
Message-ID: <3629381305061996/A02879/DALEK/11A62B661C00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A62B661C00
Okay so America has "wanky" cops. I think they may have a right to. Where
else in the world do the police have to deal with road-rage, people on crack,
acid, pcp, gun happy kids, driveby shootings... oh yeah, the US police are just
terrible.
If I had a job where my life is always on the line, then I won't be using
niceties when arresting someone, and that someone may shoot me in the back if
they had the means. It isn't the police, it's the type of criminals they have
to deal with. They have to treat everyone as their potential killer.
And all of you that have persecuted the police, who are you going to ring when
your house has been broken in to...
Sure you read about police harrassment, but you never read about the good that
they have done, the families they have saved, the rapist they caught...
Tracey
PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion? Right, they
haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 03:10:07 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605031007.0067b698@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 18:01 04/06/96 -0400, Ralph wrote:
Ralph Richter, Columbus OH
I think you are supposed to type your name in at the bottom of the list and
mail it on to the president and/or anyone else you think might add their name.
Kind regards,
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 03:36:22 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police Lover
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605033622.006aa2c0@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:38 05/06/96 +1200, Tracey wrote:
PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion? Right, they
haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.
No but the technique of these people is to use an issue like abortion or
child pornography which gets moral majority support. Then when we are not
looking, the laws they introduce stop us buying Cosmopolitan or exchanging
Email. As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.
(Cosmopolitan was picked as innocuous, just as an off the cuff example, my
first thought was Woman's Own, but I'm not sure if that is as
internationally recognised)
;
Laura Goodwin's point is valid. If you don't use it, you lose it. Speak up
or forever hold your piece(strike that) peace.
Yes we should praise the police more when they do their job properly every
day of the week 365 days of the year.
But when we see film at eleven of horrifying beatings, it sets one wondering
just how many bad apples before you throw out the barrel.
Kind regards,
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:18:59 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606050418.AAA10516@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:44 AM 6/4/96 -0700, you wrote:
Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.
Dee-Ann
Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!
Thank you for you comments Dee-Ann. Mark, it is you who should be
learning something from this.
--
Laura Goodwin
Although i didn't mean any disrespect ma'am, i do apoligize if i offended you.
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 00:07:03 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: if you cannot get to email
Message-ID: <31B53217.A21@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
of government from my site...go to
gopher://una.hh.lib.umich.edu/0/socsci/poliscilaw/uslegi/conemail
that is where my site is linked too..good luck
patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:02:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606051202.FAA27747@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com
Magnus wrote:
As repulsive as this law may be, it has no jurisdiction outside of
the U.S.A., so it's not illegal 'to discuss abortion anywhere on the
internet'. In theory I could be extradited for writing indecent words
like shit and piss here in Sweden, and then sending it electronically
to the U.S.A., since I believe Sweden has a reciprocal extradition
agreement with the U.S.A., but in practice that most likely won't
happen, since this is such a minor crime.
No kidding! They are not after small fry like us anyway, they are
after big time pornographers and Mafia types, but they can't catch
them, so they'll end up persecuting a random few unlucky citizens.
neither desirable nor possible to censor the internet.
That's right, it's an impossible task. As for desirable, I'm sure all
of us have at least one net denizen we'd like to hear less from. But
to enjoy freedom for ourselves we have to tolerate those we disagree
with, and everyone except the fundies seems to understand this.
Fundamentalist Xians are intolerant and conservative by nature and by
rigorous training, and they will never get it. The only way to get
peace on the net is to censor those Bozos, but they are better
organized, and got their law in under the wire first.
I saw a bumpersticker today: "Jesus is Peace. No Jesus, No Peace."
Is it just me, or does that sound like a threat?
Anyway, be determined to fight this thing, because a fight it is.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:49:30 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police, etc.
Message-Id: <199606051249.FAA01838@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com
Tracey wrote:
Okay so America has "wanky" cops. I think they may have a right to.
If I had a job where my life is always on the line, then I won't be
using niceties when arresting someone
Tracey, they are human, and like any human under tremendous pressure
can snap, can make mistakes. They are not entitled to do so, though.
In fact, they are forbidden to do so by law, and they are supposed to
be enforcing the law, not breaking it.
And all of you that have persecuted the police, who are you going to
ring when your house has been broken in to...
Wait a sec: The police are not persecuted. They are paid to do a
difficult and dangerous job that they volunteered for. I always depend
on the cops to help me, but I have seen with my own eyes cops going
berzerk on an innocent man. They came to my neighbor's to arrest his
roommate: when my neighbor said the roommate wasn't home and no, the
cops couldn't come in, they broke the door down, (3 of them), grabbed
him by his hair and smashed his head into 1) the door, 2) the wall, 3)
the stone coffee table, 4) the floor (several times). He was wrestled
into submission, handcuffed, then kicked in the gut several times. All
the apt. house was in an uproar. Children were crying, women were
screaming, men were running in all directions for help. The roommate
missed all of this. He came home later to find his door broken down,
his apt. in a shambles, and blood everywhere. The innocent guy who got
beat up was arrested, and sat shivering and bleeding in shock in the
pen all night...they didn't even let a doctor look at him. Later we
found out he had a fractured arm, 2 broken ribs, and a cracked skull.
When the POLICE break into your house, who do you call? You tell me.
In another incident cops "rescued" me from a rapist and would-be
murderer, and *forgot to arrest the guy*, letting him get away! Why?
They thought I was his girlfriend! I know, what difference does that
make? All the difference, apparently.
The cop in the patrol car was thunderstruck that I wanted the guy
arrested. I said: "Let me show you my ID: I want you to see I don't
normally look this way!" My whole face was bruised from a vicious
beating; my eyes were swollen shut, I was nearly blinded. "Look," I
said "Look, some people even think I'm pretty." and I started to cry.
"He's not your boyfriend?" he said.
"No!" I screamed "I HARDLY KNOW THE GUY!"
"You'll have to submit to an exam, and file a report..." he said, as if
that would help me to change my mind.
"FINE! FINE! EXAMINE ME NOW! I WANT TO FILE A REPORT RIGHT NOW!"
"You better calm down, young lady, or I'm turning around and taking you
to the mental hospital."
I swear this is a true story.
==================================
PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion?
Right, they haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.
I agree, the whole idea is a joke. The once most free and universal
medium is now, with a wave of some ill-concieved U.S. legislation,
*poof* now one of the most restricted mediums!? I don't think so.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 15:02:52 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: The down-and-dirty tactics of the totalitarian religious right!
Message-Id: <199606051301.PAA01643@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I thought this would be of interest to the subscribers to this list. If
it isn't, let me know, and I won't do this again.
When I read this, a lot of not so pleasant feelings rear their ugly
heads. *This* is the kind of actions that tempt *me* to pick up an assault
rifle and do divine justive :(. After all freedom of speech is worth it.
These people are in the long run a threat to democracy. They will settle
for nothing short of a Religious Reich on the analogy of a nation like
Iran, and they don't hesitate to exploit children to achieve their goals.
If Joe Sixpack and Jane Homecoat don't wake up and vote, they soon won't
have to worry about it anymore at all.
==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:18:34 -0800
To: telstar@wired.com
From: telstar@wired.com (--Todd Lappin--)
Subject: BACKGROUNDER: The Religious Right and CDA
Cc: jw@bway.net
Sender: owner-cda-bulletin-list@hotwired.com
Excuse me if my typing is a little sloppy... I've been biting my nails for
three days in anticipation of an imminent decision from the Philadelphia
court regarding the (un)constitutionality of the Communications Decency
Act.
Last week, I was told we might have a decision on Monday. Monday came and
went, then melted into Tuesday (today), and still we haven't received any
news from Philly. At last word, my contacts are hopeful that we'll have
the judges' decision on Thursday.
I hope they're right, because my fingertips are getting sore.
Meanwhile, as we nervously pace back and forth in this judicial waiting
room, I figure it's worth taking a minute to recall how we got here in the
first place.
The following article by Jonathan Wallace is an interesting overview of
how
the religious right conspired with a clueless Congress to secure passage
of
the Communications Decency Act earlier this year.
John writes, "Not only is the CDA an extension of the religious right's
campaign to dictate moral standards in traditional media; the CDA itself
is
a creature of the religious right, which had a significant hand in
sculpting it, lining up politicians to support it, and then supplying them
with the ammunition they needed to get it passed."
Read on for more gritty detail, and stay tuned to this frequency for
further announcements as soon as I learn more about the impending CDA
decision.
Work the network!
--Todd Lappin--
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine
========================================
THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT AND INTERNET CENSORSHIP
by Jonathan Wallace
(This article appeared in the May issue of Freedom Writer, the newsletter
of the Institute for First Amendment Studies.)
A trial taking place in Philadelphia now will determine the
constitutionality of the Communications Decency Act (CDA), a federal law
passed last fall which criminalizes the online "depiction or description"
of sexual acts and organs. By its terms, the CDA permits regulation of
electronic text far beyond what is permissible for books and magazines
under the First Amendment.
In the back of the courtroom, representatives of the religious right, such
as ex-prosecutor Bruce Taylor of the National Law Center for Children and
Families, are monitoring each day of the trial with intent interest.
Why are they there? Not only is the CDA an extension of the religious
right's campaign to dictate moral standards in traditional media; the CDA
itself is a creature of the religious right, which had a significant hand
in sculpting it, lining up politicians to support it, and then supplying
them with the ammunition they needed to get it passed.
Soon after the Republicans released their Contract with America, the
Christian Coalition responded with its Contract with the American Family;
item 10 called for strict regulation of the Internet to protect minors
against sexual material. Bruce Taylor responded to the Christian
Coalition's call. Taylor prosecuted more than sixty obscenity cases during
his tenure with the Department of Justice, before leaving to become
Executive Director of the National Law Center for Children and Families.
Working behind the scenes advising Nebraska Senator James J. Exon, a
conservative Democrat who had made the issue of Internet indecency his
own,
Taylor helped draft the CDA, first introduced by Exon during 1994. The
bill
expired that year but succeeded in becoming law in 1995, after the
election
of a Republican majority with ties to the religious right.
On June 12, 1995, the Senate initiated debate on the CDA with a prayer by
the Senate chaplain, Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie: "Almighty God, Lord of all
life, we praise You for the advancements in computerized communications
that we enjoy in our time. Sadly, however, there are those who are
littering this information superhighway with obscene, indecent, and
destructive pornography." Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, foremost
adversary of the CDA, later commented that the Chaplain should "allow us
to
debate these issues and determine how they come out and maybe pray for our
guidance, but allow us to debate them. He may find that he has enough
other
duties, such as composing a prayer each morning for us, to keep him busy."
The entire Senate debate, spearheaded by Senator Exon and Republicans Dan
Coats and Charles Grassley, was informed by the sensibilities of the
religious right. The Senators read letters from the Christian Coalition
and
from Bruce Taylor into the record. More significantly, they flaunted
statistics from the notorious Marty Rimm "cyberporn" study two weeks
before
it was released in an exclusive article in the July 3rd Time magazine.
Apparently, the proponents of the CDA had been given a preview of the
study's contents.
Mike Godwin, staff counsel to the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
believes
that the religious right acted as the conduit between the Georgetown Law
Journal, then preparing the Rimm study for publication, and the
pro-censorship Senators. Godwin discovered that as early as November 1994,
Bruce Taylor was assisting Marty Rimm, then a junior at Carnegie Mellon,
in
preparing his study, a thesis project. Deen Kaplan, a Georgetown Law
student and editor of the Law Journal, shared office space with Taylor in
a
complex which also housed the National Coalition for Children and Families
and Donna Rice's organization, Enough is Enough. Another protege of
Taylor's, John McMickle, was now on Senator Grassley's staff, and assisted
him in drafting his own Internet indecency legislation. Deen Kaplan
compiled Senator Exon's "Blue Book" of Internet pornography, which he
brandished to great effect during the Senate discussions.
On June 14, Senator Coats of Indiana announced in the Senate that there
were 450,000 pornographic images and text files on the Net, which had been
accessed 6.4 million times in the last year. Although he did not give the
source of these statistics, they came directly from the still-secret Rimm
study. After its release in July, the cyberporn study was quickly
discredited as a scientific document and revealed to be the
publicity-seeking stunt of a university undergraduate, but the damage it
caused continues: the Department of Justice introduced the study as
evidence in the current trial of the CDA.
Ironically, the author soon tried to distance himself from the use the
religious right made of his study. Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition
had praised the study on Nightline. Marty Rimm responded: "Frankly, my
sense is that things are getting blown out of proportion because people
are
angry that the study will be misappropriated. Their concerns are indeed
well-founded. For instance, Ralph Reed stated on Nightline that 'According
to the Carnegie Mellon University survey, one-quarter of all the images
involve the torture of women.' This is simply untrue; the Carnegie Mellon
study does not report any results concerning torture. Many others on
Capitol Hill have misappropriated the study as well."
Some Congressmen privately told constituents that they had no choice but
to
vote for a law which they believed the courts would later hold
unconstitutional; the Senate passed the CDA by a vote of 86-14.
The next day, Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition exulted: "We are proud
and honored that the first item of the Contract With The American Family
that passed either house of Congress is designed to protect our
children...
We applaud Senators Coats and Exon for their decisive step forward to
protect our nation's youth from the real threat of cyber-porn, and we look
forward to swift action in the House."
For a while, it looked as if the CDA would be defeated in the House, where
Speaker Gingrich had announced that it was unconstitutional. The CDA was
never reported out of committee, and the House made a show of passing the
Cox-Wyden amendment, which lauded the Internet and announced that the FCC
would never have any role in regulating it.
However, in a remarkable manipulation of the procedural rules, Congressman
Henry Hyde of Illinois, another long-time supporter of the religious
right's agenda, added his own version of Internet indecency language to
the
Telecommunications Reform Act in a last minute "manager's mark amendment."
This swept to victory shortly afterwards as the House endorsed the Telcom
act, with most legislators completely unaware that Congressman Hyde had
tacked it on to the bill.
The next day, Ralph Reed said, apropos of this and other legislative
developments: "We are on a roll.... We never expected to make so much
progress so quickly... Our grassroots will stay engaged until the final
item is passed and signed by this or a future president." He made no
mention of the unsavory way in which Congressman Hyde had resuscitated a
law declared dead by the Speaker. A House-Senate conference commitee
reconciled the Exon and Hyde versions, and later that fall, President
Clinton signed the telcom bill, including the CDA, into law.
The religious right is not resting on its laurels. In addition to
attending
the Philadelphia case, it has taken to the media with an aggressive
defense
of the CDA. A few weeks ago, I debated ex-prosecutor Patrick Trueman, now
legislative affairs director for the American Family Association, on NBC's
America's Talking cable network. Trueman called the Internet "depraved"
and
accused me of wanting "to let the perverts go." Shortly after, he released
a letter to the press in which he called for the prosecution of the
Compuserve online service under the CDA for its alleged hosting of
pornographic images.
In her fine 1993 history of American arts censorship, ACLU attorney
Marjorie Heins wrote that "the message of religiously based 'profamily'
leaders like Reverend Donald Wildmon of the American Family Association or
Pat Robertson of the Christian Coalition was not merely that their views
on
sexuality, women's rights, reproductive freedom, and religion were
correct,
but that other views should not even be heard." These two organizations,
and others like them, have now mounted a pre-emptive strike against the
Internet.
###
Jonathan Wallace, a software executive and attorney, is co-author with
Mark
Mangan of Sex, Laws and Cyberspace, a book about Internet censorship
(Henry Holt, 1996) (http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/).
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
This transmission was brought to you by....
THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
The CDA Disaster Network is a moderated distribution list providing
up-to-the-minute bulletins and background on efforts to overturn the
Communications Decency Act. To subscribe, send email to
WARNING: This is not a test! WARNING: This is not a drill!
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #94
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 95
Today's Topics:
Re: Police, etc.
Apologies
In the news today...
Re: Police Lover
the above thread, MAgnus wrote,
Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
(SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 15:16:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Police, etc.
Message-Id: <199606051315.PAA04127@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:49:30 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
Wait a sec: The police are not persecuted. They are paid to do a
difficult and dangerous job that they volunteered for. I always depend
on the cops to help me, but I have seen with my own eyes cops going
berzerk on an innocent man. They came to my neighbor's to arrest his
roommate: when my neighbor said the roommate wasn't home and no, the
cops couldn't come in, they broke the door down, (3 of them), grabbed
him by his hair and smashed his head into 1) the door, 2) the wall, 3)
the stone coffee table, 4) the floor (several times). He was wrestled
into submission, handcuffed, then kicked in the gut several times. All
the apt. house was in an uproar. Children were crying, women were
screaming, men were running in all directions for help. The roommate
missed all of this. He came home later to find his door broken down,
his apt. in a shambles, and blood everywhere. The innocent guy who got
beat up was arrested, and sat shivering and bleeding in shock in the
pen all night...they didn't even let a doctor look at him. Later we
found out he had a fractured arm, 2 broken ribs, and a cracked skull.
When the POLICE break into your house, who do you call? You tell me.
The media? It seems to me that there were more than enough witnesses.
If the person subjected to this didn't take action, the problem will
continue to exist.
Why does the U.S.A. have this problem with its policeforces? There are
problems with the Swedish policeforce (e.g. right-wing extremists, use of
excessive force etc.), but it seems to be much more abundant in the U.S.A.
Why? Is it perhaps society's problem. You live in a very violent society
compared to Europe. Isn't it logical that the policeforces will reflect
this?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:15:13 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Apologies
Message-Id: <199606051315.GAA16171@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
mark wrote:
Although i didn't mean any disrespect ma'am, i do apoligize if i
offended you.
OK mark. I'm over it.
May I give you a bit of advice? Although we often talk about really
personal stuff in this forum, please remember to be careful about
seeming too familiar too soon.
I admit I have a tendancy to get hot too easy, and I have been known to
overreact. I've had to *apologise* here once or twice for getting
insulting. It's good for the soul. :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:28:43 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: In the news today...
Message-Id: <199606051328.GAA22901@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
From: NewsPage_Direct@individual.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:50:38 -0400
INDONESIAN POLICE CAPTURE ALLEGED PENIS BITER - Indonesian police
have arrested a man they have chased for two years following
allegations he bit the penises of at least five young schoolboys,
the official Antara news agency reported on Tuesday. [Reuters]
PORNOGRAPHY BILL PROPOSED - Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch proposed a
bill Tuesday aimed at computer-aided child pornography and lashed
out at Clinton-appointed judges and prosecutors as soft on such
crimes. [Associated Press]
CONGRESS URGED TO BAN COMPUTER-MADE CHILD PORN - Child pornography
created on computers is a growing threat to society and should be
outlawed, federal officials told a Senate hearing on Tuesday.
[Reuters]
UK - TWO JAILED IN INTERNET CHILD PORN CASE - Two men have been
jailed by Birmingham Crown Court for their part in distributing
child pornography across the Internet. The case is the first of its
type in the UK, Newsbytes notes. [Newsbytes]
LDP MEMBER SAYS ASIAN WOMEN NOT FORCED INTO PROSTITUTION - TOKYO,
June 4 _ A Liberal Democratic Party lawmaker said Tuesday the
wartime sex slaves for the Japanese Imperial Army were not forced
into prostitution. [Kyodo]
FIRED M.E. HORDED CORPSE PICS - A medical examiner who was fired
last year for insubordination kept unauthorized photographs of
corpses in his desk, including an autopsy photo of former Gov. Dixy
Lee Ray, her family said. [Associated Press]
MIAMI MAN ARRESTED IN SLAYINGS - A Miami man has confessed to
killing four women whose beaten and burned bodies were found in a
rundown part of the city, police said. [Associated Press]
GOP MOVE ON MENTAL HEALTH PLAN - Republicans intend to scuttle a
Senate-passed health care provision requiring insurance companies to
provide parity for treatment of mental illness, a leading senator
said Tuesday. [Associated Press]
MEDICARE FACES 2001 BANKRUPTCY - Medicare trustees will report
Wednesday that the hospital fund will be bankrupt in 2001, owing
$28.9 billion, said congressional Republicans who want President
Clinton to negotiate with them now on a solution. [Associated Press]
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:42:22 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police Lover
Message-ID: <960605114221_407773277@emout14.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-06-04 22:37:03 EDT, you write:
No but the technique of these people is to use an issue like abortion or
child pornography which gets moral majority support. Then when we are not
looking, the laws they introduce stop us buying Cosmopolitan or exchanging
Email. As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.
It's known as the "slippery slope."
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:59:49 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: the above thread, MAgnus wrote,
Message-Id: <9606051259.S737265779@houston.email.net
As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.
to which anonymous replied: "It's known as the slippery slope,"
To which I refine: " . .and every slippery slope has its double-edged sword."
(Pardon the Mixaphor)" It cuts both ways and can -- as others have pointed
out -- be used against biblical references, etc.
bodie
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:54:28 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID:
FE** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
FE** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
FEIn a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
FE(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
FEplease read, sign and pass this along.
FEFREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
FESubject: abortion on the Internet
FEAs many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
FEcongress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
FEto discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
FEnewsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
FEkind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
FEinto law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
FE9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
FEheavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
FEcitizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.
FEThis e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
FEsign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
FEas possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
FEevery e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
FEcan also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
FEa similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
FEopposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
FEresisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
FEspeech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
FEPresident Clinton at
FEsomething done this.
FE_________________________________________________________________
FEI object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
FEabortion on the internet.
FE 1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
FE 2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
FE 3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
FE 4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
FE 5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
FE 6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
FE 7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
FE 8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
FE 9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
FE10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
FE11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
FE12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
FE13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
FE14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
FE15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
FE16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
FE17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
FE18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
FE19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
FE20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
FE21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
FE22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
FE23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
FE24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
FE25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
FE26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
FE27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
FE28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
FE29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
FE30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
FE31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
FE32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
FE33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
FE34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
FE35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
FE36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
FE37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
FE38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
FE39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
FE40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
FEFreedom, Phila, PA
FE41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
FE42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
FE43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT
Barbara Kent, Dix Hills, NY
FE--
FELaura Goodwin
FE" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
FE(William Shakespeare)
FE___________________________________________________________________
FEQuestions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
FEFor a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
FEmail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:03:19 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B5E807.7DBA@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am getting so tired of the "Big Brother" mentality out there...I sent
off a copy to the white house and then mailed off copies to all of my
women and feminist men friends and everyone else I could think of via
snail mail as well... I can monitor my own messages and what I look
at on the Web, I don't need my government f*****g with my communications
and tell what I can and cannot write about here.
Thanks for forwarding this.
Very pissed off about this...
Jet
_________________________________________________________________
I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.
1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT 44. Jet Tenley, Seattle, WA
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:04:35 -0400
From: cuffs@shore.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960605200435.0067e7f8@shell1.shore.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
cuffs
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:20:46 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B5EC1E.2957@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David--
I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk.
Although sending a copy of the list with my name on it to the president puts me
at risk, I still choose to do this... I have to right to vote... I have the
right of free speech... I have a right to stand up for what I believe it and I
choose do that right now.
I despise the way the religious right is trying to force their beliefs on many
who choose/have the right to believe what they want.
I don't usually swear as a general rule,
but when people try to dictate what I say, what I should believe, who I should listen
to and what I should watch or what I should/have to do...I get very angry and this
sets me off in a way that most other things do not. In trying to get their 'rights'
or beliefs enforced, they are trampling everyone elses' rights.
I don't know if I'm making sense right now, I have a very bad case of the flu (coming
and going) and am running a bit of fever, but I cannot believe that a president in
the USA would start chipping away at our rights. It's indecent! It's
unconstitutional. It makes me so angry that I could swear some more.
I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.
I thought I did live in country that had free speech...that is what makes me so
upset! That's exactly what I'm doing, David.
But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.
You are absolutely right...why do we vote if not for free choice.
I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.
David, we appreciate this very much.
I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.
Wonderful...the more the 'merrier.'
I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.
David Stevenson (nee Harley).
A terrific letter it is, David... If someone from outside the USA can make
the president feel some sort of shame, etc., maybe that will help keep this
from happening any more than it already has, or even reverse the decision.
Dear Mr. President,
As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.
UNTIL NOW!
I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.
Thank you, David...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:38:14 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B5F036.7610@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
cuffs
Thanks for the information, cuffs. I am one of those 35%. It is very good
to know that women-owned businesses are growing at such a fast rate.
Lady Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:30:27 -0400
From: willow
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B5EE63.103B23B9@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
cuffs wrote:
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
cuffs
Domestic skills? Can't I just move my computer down to the dungeon and
hack from there? :(
Semper Servis,
Willow
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <199606052048.NAA12690@netcom17.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2257
cuff wrote
Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
to which I add (perhaps from the same source):
Woman owned businesses employed 18.5 employees in the last year,
26% of the US labor force.
This is a figure that has tripled in a decade.
There are now 8 million woman-owned businesses in the US.
This is why all but 1 of my clients and most of my suppliers,
vendors, co-contractors (I can't exactly call them 'subcontractors,'
can I? :] ) are women. Ditto all the professionals in my
life except my MD. Even the executrix of my estate and the holder
of my living will is a woman. The goal is a 100% female-only business
connection as soon as possible.
Opportunity for activism: Right now we are defending free speech
on the Internet, but here's another 'slippery slope:' The Gingrich
Congress is trying to gut the Commerce department and especially the
SBA. This is a principal resource and clearinghouse for Women-owned
businesses, and ending the SBA would cripple the efforts of many
Women to achieve economic self-suffiency.
Please use Patricia's web site to stay informed, and when you
can, write.
(For non-US readers -about half of us now?- the SBA -Small Business
Administration is a US government agency whose mission is to
promote and assist small, female and minority enterprises of all
sorts. Like any agency, it is not always perfect, but it does do
good work.)
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:45:13 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B61C09.3A2C@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:47:27 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B61C8F.68C8@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am one also..and though I abhor being one of a crowd..in this case I am
proud to be amongst them.
patricia
Jet wrote:
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
cuffs
Thanks for the information, cuffs. I am one of those 35%. It is very good
to know that women-owned businesses are growing at such a fast rate.
Lady Jet
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:02:27 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606052102.OAA24926@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about
is about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pornography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 96
Today's Topics:
Re: Police
Control of Internet Access (was Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Fwd: Molly Ivins on Children
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Bad press (was Police)
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Harassing women on the net.
The real issue. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Re: Police
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:08:00 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: Police
Message-ID: <8451070906061996/A00743/DALEK/11A632473300*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A632473300
I still think it is your type of criminal in the US. I mean, in NZ our police
do not go bolting into houses, smashing down innocent people, but our police do
not have to face people with serious drug problems, and guns are not a common
feature of a NZ household. Our police do not even carry firearms.
And police are only human as mentioned by Laura. Dealing with low-life every
single working day, and then because of the legal system, most get away with
the crime while the victim is left with nothing. So you are going to get the
one or two police who throw in the towel, crack up, or become corrupted.
Just one bad apple and we throw away the barrel. Just like lumping every man
into the potential rapist department or every woman is a potential slut.
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
have personally seen the work go into these policies and I know that the media
also has information that retaliates. No wonder everyone hates the Government.
No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.
Tracey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Control of Internet Access (was Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606052113.OAA01100@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1703
Noble wrote:
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
I'm starting an Internet provider in Vancouver, Canada. A huge
problem is that Internet providers have to get the phone lines their
users dial into from the phone company that has the monopoly in our
area. And, the phone companies are now providing Internet access as
well. So, they are slow in adding lines, and not too flexible in
helping a provider find the best solution for their particular needs.
However, the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television regulating group)
which is like the FCC in the US and regulates such things like phone
rates and cable company problems and what each company can do in the
other's business has stepped in. It's been determined that it's time
for the local phone monopolies to be broken. Not only does this help
Internet providers, but it really helps everyone, since BCTel (the
local monopoly) charges insane amounts for service and nickels and
dimes ya to death. I think $97 Canadian an hour is a wee bit much to
have someone come in and install or remove a line.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:19:47 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Molly Ivins on Children
Message-Id: <199606052119.OAA22549@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com
From: Bob Witanek
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
Subject: Molly Ivins on Children
It'll take more than marches to save this generation of kids
If all of us who care had the time and money to have gotten to
Washington on Saturday for Stand for Children, it would have been
quite a gathering -- probably sinking the city back into the tidal
muck.
What's pitiful is that such a march was even necessary. The poll
numbers are overwhelming: According to a CNN-Time poll, 73 percent
of us would like to see more of our tax dollars spent on children.
But we're spending less, courtesy of the Republican revolution. The
most vogue political scheme of the day is welfare reform, which in
its last form from Newt's Congress would have put another 1 million
children into poverty and taken away the already inadequate social
safety net they now have.
Of all the statistics about children floating around last week, the
most horrifying was that the percentage of children who live in
``extreme poverty'' (defined as a family income of less than half
the official poverty level) has doubled since 1975. It's now 10
percent. And one out of every five children in this country is
growing up in plain poverty. According to Time magazine, in 1992,
there were 850,000 substantiated cases of child abuse or neglect.
Those are the kids who need our help, and on whom the country's
future depends.
It's not a question of not knowing what to do. All the evidence is
that the earlier we put money into helping a child, the bigger the
payoff. Starting with prenatal care and well-infant nutrition
programs, day care, Head Start and good schools, the more we spend
early, the more we save later. Creating the best schools on the
planet would cost us less than building the prisons we're going to
need if we don't save these children. The issue is perfect for both
bleeding hearts and budget-choppers, but we still let the problems
grow worse.
The Republican brethren are right when they say the whole answer is
not in government programs. Supporting programs that help kids is
critical, but it's like saying, ``I gave at the office.'' Getting
involved in Big Brother/Big Sister programs, tutoring,
adopt-a-school, recreation, music, arts and crafts programs -- a
zillion places need volunteers.
It is both dumb and wicked to pretend that volunteerism alone can
solve any of these problems. Americans would have to give 50 times
more by the year 2000 to replace government social services. It
won't happen.
Of course we need welfare reform. Any idiot could design a better
welfare system than the one we have -- all it takes is more money.
What we need to get people off welfare and into jobs is (a) jobs,
(b) job training, (c) universal health insurance, (d) day care and
(e) transportation. Where to get the money? We could start with the
$12 billion Congress gave the Pentagon that the Pentagon didn't ask
for to build weapons the Pentagon doesn't need and can't use.
While we're hearing election-year rhetoric about what a disaster the
schools are, the schools are actually getting better -- slowly and
unevenly, of course. The maddening thing about education is that
someone somewhere has already solved whatever problem we're talking
about. You can find wonderful examples all over the country of
schools that work. The problem is how to replicate success
throughout the system.
We might do well to take a page from business here. When something
isn't working in business -- say, a division is losing money -- the
company usually solves it by taking a manager from a successful
division and putting that person in charge of the one that doesn't
work. Why not get the people responsible for successful schools
together and let them design a better system?
And don't let anyone tell you it won't cost more money. For all the
endless blather about how much money we spend on our schools and how
it hasn't done any good, far too many schools are literally falling
apart: leaky roofs, broken windows, broken stairs, busted toilets,
roaches in the cafeteria, bad lighting . . . Many problems can be
solved by putting money into them.
Marian Wright Edelman's Children's Defense Fund, leading lobby for
children, has an annual budget of $13 million, compared to $66
million for the National Rifle Association and $300 million for the
American Association of Retired Persons.
Molly Ivins is a columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606052123.OAA18607@netcom17.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1110
Laura Goodwin answered Patricia's assertion
.. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?
1. Stay informed about who the 'big boys' are and what
they're up to- this may have in fact slowed down Microsoft
Network's perceived monopoly.
2. Patronize the 'Little Women,' e.g., Stacy Horn's Echo
in NYC and other Woman-owned ISPs or failing that Freenets,
or failing that, simply the smaller Mon & pop ISPs- check them
out first- You could be buying from right-wing nuts.
(I know: here I am on Netcom, but they seem at least benignly
neutral, and have been fighting the good fight on CDA, etc.
I think by 'big boys' Mts Patricia meant the 800 pound gorillas.)
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 17:23:13 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B624F1.7656@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Learn all about the technology so we can get past whatever system they
try to "own"...that will be when we fight the legal battles.
its like abortion...when they were threatening to take abortion rights
away...and they still are...I saw it as our responsibility to buy
equipment and learn the skills necessary to give a safe abortion. I
believe our obligation to deliver these services if they are made illegal
again will be the legal battle.
patricia
Laura Goodwin wrote:
You wrote:
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about
is about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pornography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 15:53:51 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B60FFF.519C@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-Noble wrote:
I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia
Point well taken, Patricia... Unfortunately, when it comes to issues
such as abortion, the religious right is one of the many groups trying
to take that away and send us back into the dark ages of illegal
and deadly abortions. That's what really makes me angry. I have many
acquaintances that are fundamentalist christians, born-again christians,
and just plain christians that keep telling me that the internet is a
hot-bed of sin with all the "sinful" people using it to perpetuate
satan's plan... It is unfortunate that this is the forum they choose
to use right now to push for their cause (not all christians feel this
way, but it seems like a large portion are)...first it was banning
books, then it was tv/radio/music, now it's the internet... Of course,
ATT and all the other media monopolies are against anyone getting free
services, but the religious right is also part of the program here.
I apologize for soapboxing against the religious right, but I have seen
a lot of these people cause trouble for those of us who feel that the
constitution was made for all of us, not just a certain group.
Of course, we've also seen what happens with de-regulation of certain
monopolies (can we say ATT). They are afraid of losing more pieces of
their pie...
Yes, Patricia, I fumed at just one group, but sometimes it seems as fi
this group is behind a lot of what's going on... Again, my apologies
for the soapboxing... :/
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:13:14 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Bad press (was Police)
Message-ID: <31B6148A.7B86@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tracey--
No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.
Tracey
People need someone to hate...the government (or religious right or whomever
someone chooses) is just handy and is very visible.
The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not. It's rather like seeing an accident and the
morbidly curious are right there looking over the paramedics shoulders.
Tragedy draws people...morbidness attracts them like flies. People feel
they have the right to know, that's why shows such as Hardcopy and
magazines such as People thrive...
Remember the Hugh Grant thing---
How many people frequent prostitutes in this world? Because this
Hugh Grant happened to be famous and had a famous girlfriend,
he was splattered all over the papers including close-ups of
his girlfriend's angry/tear-stained face, not to mention the
prostitute (who is now famous). In this case, it wasn't just the
Hardcopy genre that got involved. It was all over the evening
news, in the newspapers, and every one had to get their 2 cents in.
Talk about a waste of bandwidth.
It was so nice of cuff and Coyote to bring up some wonderful news like
women-owned businesses are growing... It was a welcome relief. Of course,
this news is usually in the guess what sections of the magazines and in
the little columns of the newspapers (maybe 2-3 column inches worth of
space). It would be wonderful for all the good news to take up the head-
lines in the papers, and the bad news the 2-3 column inches...
For what it's worth...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 19:05:37 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B63CF1.347A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You are not soapboxing and never any need to apologize for contributing
to dialogue.
patricia
Jet wrote:
-Noble wrote:
I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia
Point well taken, Patricia... Unfortunately, when it comes to issues
such as abortion, the religious right is one of the many groups trying
to take that away and send us back into the dark ages of illegal
and deadly abortions. That's what really makes me angry. I have many
acquaintances that are fundamentalist christians, born-again christians,
and just plain christians that keep telling me that the internet is a
hot-bed of sin with all the "sinful" people using it to perpetuate
satan's plan... It is unfortunate that this is the forum they choose
to use right now to push for their cause (not all christians feel this
way, but it seems like a large portion are)...first it was banning
books, then it was tv/radio/music, now it's the internet... Of course,
ATT and all the other media monopolies are against anyone getting free
services, but the religious right is also part of the program here.
I apologize for soapboxing against the religious right, but I have seen
a lot of these people cause trouble for those of us who feel that the
constitution was made for all of us, not just a certain group.
Of course, we've also seen what happens with de-regulation of certain
monopolies (can we say ATT). They are afraid of losing more pieces of
their pie...
Yes, Patricia, I fumed at just one group, but sometimes it seems as fi
this group is behind a lot of what's going on... Again, my apologies
for the soapboxing... :/
Jet
___________________________________________________________________
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For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 00:01:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13738@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:04:35 -0400, cuffs@shore.net wrote:
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.
If I were in a relationship with a woman owning and running her own
business, I definitely wouldn't mind running the household (cooking,
cleaning etc.) so she could devote all her time to her business. It makes
sense. If she's good at what she does, why should she waste her time doing
household chores?
Besides women have done this for men for many years. I can't see why
the opposite shouldn't be possible.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 01:17:22 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13787@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:=0D=0A=0D=
=0AAhem. Men aren't. -Some- men are compelled to, or otherwise do the=
se=0D=0Astupid obnoxious tasteless things. Many others don't.=0D=0A=0D=
=0A Touch=E9 ;).=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A This kind of behavior really =
makes me feel shame on the behalf of these=0D=0A men :(.=0D=0A=0D=0A=
This is a logic I have never understood : Second-hand shame. Magnus, y=
ou=0D=0A=0D=0A My feelings don't answer to logic, I'm afraid. If they =
did, they would=0D=0Abe more of ... logic than feelings, wouldn't they?=0D=
=0A=0D=0A---=0D=0AMagnus Thelander=0D=0AMalmo, Sweden=0D=0AHiroshima 45,=
Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 00:48:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: The real issue. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13754@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:45:13 -0700, Noble wrote:
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
Do you mean the megacorporations and their lackeys? Perhaps I should
say gigacorporations, since they probably count their profits in the
billions today?
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
So, what exactly are they doing under cover of the noise and smoke
stirred by the Telecommunications bill and Communication decency act? If
you know, please enlighten us.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
It works now because only a few people bother to do it, but if everyone
suddenly switched their international phone calls to the internet, the
internet would choke instantly. It's already crowded in some places with
slow transfer rates and long delays.
In Sweden new capacity is being installed continously to handle the
increased traffic on the internet. We have two Swedish phone companys
selling access to the internet in addition to all the usual services phone
companys offer and there are perhaps four foreign phone companys or
consortiums of phone companys operating in Sweden, and offering both
regular data communication, audio communication and internet access. I
know that the two Swedish operators are investing heavily in increased
transmission capacity including transatlantic connections, which means
that using the internet for phone calls will be more viable in the future,
even though sound quality and reliability leaves a lot to be desired
today. I don't know what the other operators are doing, but if they want
to stay competitive, I assume they're doing the same.
I don't know what the situation is in the U.S.A., but if capacity is
being added there too, the internet *is* indeed a growing threat to
regular phone calls.
The question is why do the phone companys invest huge amounts in
increased transmission capacity dedicated to the internet, if they at the
same time are losing control over the lucrative market for international
phone calls? They could just sit back and watch the internet choke itself
to death, if they wanted to.
This isn't the first time I've come across this interpretation of the
recent activities. I don't remember where I read it first. It may have
been in Hotwired.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:49:23 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tracey wrote:
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
have personally seen the work go into these policies and I know that the media
also has information that retaliates. No wonder everyone hates the Government.
No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.
As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
government good for the people or good for the government?
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
I don't know what newspapers you read, but the one I work for is full of
stories about criminals getting caught, police getting beat up, and also
police going out of their way to help others.
Peter
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 97
Today's Topics:
Re: Policeforce.
Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Media. (Was: Re: Police)
I dislike the Media!
Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Re: I dislike the Media!
Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Police
Unsubscribe
From a.w.s.: More Web Sites for Women
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 01:50:49 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606052352.BAA13791@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
Heh. "Evidence" in such matters is rather hard to produce, wouldn't you
agree Magnus? It's kinda like a survey asking people if they beat their
You could watch them without them knowing about it. That would probably
generate evidence.
I haven't been a cop, myself.... But I spent 8 years in the marines, which
is in some ways quite similar. (Speaking from personal experience, and from
talking with both military and civilian police) Neither vocation tends to
draw very many pacifists, for the simple reason that neither is a career in
which one can reasonably expect to avoid violence - quite the contrary. For
individuals with aggresive, violent tendencies, _both_ provide an environment
where that aggression is, if not encouraged, then at least accepted. In fact,
Seems to me that that's the problem then. There's no doubt a need for a
certain amount of violence in a certain situation. That's acceptable. It's
not acceptable not to be able to determine when that line has been
crossed. If there is an attitude of acceptance of this, something has to
be done about that, or it will never change.
they're a few of the rare vocations where those tendencies can be harnessed
for society's benefit, even if society doesn't approve of the traits.
Does society really benifit from policeofficers suffering from Mad cop
decease (shamelessly stolen from David Letterman). I.e. policeofficers who
think they have a carte blanche to use force?
Both law enforcement and the military are somewhat isolationist, viewing
themselves apart from the civilian population, having more in common with one
another than with the general populace. They hold themselves to standards
of behavior that are in many ways much more rigorous than civilian standards,
and both tend to do most of the socializing within their own kind.
Still that's not cause for anyone to get out of control. I tend to
agree more with Trcaey. Many are probably very frustrated with the
inefficiency of the justice system in dealing with the criminality, and
while most will just grit their teeth, and continue fighting the
windmills, a few will simply break down under the pressure, and sooner or
later someone will provoke them one time too much. Unfortunately that
someone naturally isn't the succesful lawyer driving along in his $100'00
Mercedes.
wants a cop to come to their party. Too much suspicion that when they get
drunk and gossip or brag about breaking some minor law that the cop will take
official notice, too much discomfort with having an officer there when some
I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.
of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as
This is not breaking a minor law in my opinion. Using controlled
substances is a major crime.
feeling of belong to an elite fraternity, who to one extent or another enjoy
the nervous, respectful reactions of the crowds, and the knowledge that they
If they actually got some of this respect instead of being sworn and
spat at, they may be able to do a better job.
police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.
Intimidating and harassing known criminals to a certain extent is a
part of their job. It will reduce the ability of the criminals to go about
their foul business. Isn't that what we want the police to do? Perhaps you
meant something else, when you said 'certain types of people'?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 03:14:22 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id: <199606060113.DAA23537@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:49:23 -0500, peter wrote:
Tracey wrote:
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.
In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:25:37 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tracey wrote:
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.
In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?
Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.
And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.
And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.
Peter
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:42:38 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: I dislike the Media!
Message-ID: <3029421506061996/A03565/DALEK/11A633EA1C00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A633EA1C00
Peter wrote:
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government?
No, I dislike the way the media is bias. I have read a particular story about
a woman who was walking her dog and a pitbull terrier supposedly attacked her
dog and also bit her in the process. It was on page 2 of the paper with a
good sized picture of her and her dog bandaged up. Oh dear, bad dogs those
pitbull terriers, should be put down, blah, blah, blah... Okay, next day, page
10 of the paper, 1 small paragraph explaining the owner of the pitbull's side
of the story. Seemed the dogs had a mutual dislike to each other and began to
fight, the two owners jumped in to stop the fight and the lady got bitten. No
picture of the damage that her dog did to the pitbull. Sheds a different light
on the situation doesn't it?
And onto the Government issue. The news tells us of the 81 year old lady who
is in a longstay hospice with a mental disease. Her 80 year old husband
refuses to pay for her hospital bills, saying the Government should pay. The
tv shows pictures of him holding hands with this incoherent woman, who
obviously isn't aware of anything. A terrible picture. Bloody Government.
But, on the other hand what isn't told by the news is that this guy can afford
to pay the bills. Our pensioners are asset tested and don't have to pay for
anything and get full benefits if their personal wealth (not including house
and capital) is more than $45,000 (ie, hard cash in bank). The reason why the
Government was asking this man to pay for his wife was because they could
afford it.
I have also heard from the media that some people will still be paying off
their student loans when they are in their 40s. Another sensational headline.
And again, the media doesn't mention that the reason why these people will be
paying for such a long time is because they are only paying such a minimal
amount, like $5/week.
I see this sort of stuff time and time again. If they are going to run a
story, they should run the full story.
Tracey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:05:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ronald Forster
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I once was interviewed by the PBS "News Hour". They filmed for three
hours ( not just me but others) and were given tons of background stats.
When the piece ran one minute of the fourteen minute piece presented my
side of the story. The rest presented the "other side" and included none
of "our stats". I was on the conserative side of the issue.
My point is that, Yes the media can be very one sided.
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, peter wrote:
Tracey wrote:
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.
In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?
Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.
And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.
And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.
Peter
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:24:01 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I dislike the Media!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
As a newspaper reporter, I can't comment fully on these because a) I
haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.
Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.
So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter
Peter wrote:
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government?
No, I dislike the way the media is bias. I have read a particular story about
a woman who was walking her dog and a pitbull terrier supposedly attacked her
dog and also bit her in the process. It was on page 2 of the paper with a
good sized picture of her and her dog bandaged up. Oh dear, bad dogs those
pitbull terriers, should be put down, blah, blah, blah... Okay, next day, page
10 of the paper, 1 small paragraph explaining the owner of the pitbull's side
of the story. Seemed the dogs had a mutual dislike to each other and began to
fight, the two owners jumped in to stop the fight and the lady got bitten. No
picture of the damage that her dog did to the pitbull. Sheds a different light
on the situation doesn't it?
And onto the Government issue. The news tells us of the 81 year old lady who
is in a longstay hospice with a mental disease. Her 80 year old husband
refuses to pay for her hospital bills, saying the Government should pay. The
tv shows pictures of him holding hands with this incoherent woman, who
obviously isn't aware of anything. A terrible picture. Bloody Government.
But, on the other hand what isn't told by the news is that this guy can afford
to pay the bills. Our pensioners are asset tested and don't have to pay for
anything and get full benefits if their personal wealth (not including house
and capital) is more than $45,000 (ie, hard cash in bank). The reason why the
Government was asking this man to pay for his wife was because they could
afford it.
I have also heard from the media that some people will still be paying off
their student loans when they are in their 40s. Another sensational headline.
And again, the media doesn't mention that the reason why these people will be
paying for such a long time is because they are only paying such a minimal
amount, like $5/week.
I see this sort of stuff time and time again. If they are going to run a
story, they should run the full story.
Tracey
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:28:40 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm not going to endlessly defend other's examples of bias in the media.
Obviously, I agree there is bias. But I don't think it's as bad as others,
who have been perhaps burned, point out.
It reminds me of the time I interviewed the editor of a student newspaper.
I asked him if he considered his paper just as factual and objective as the
mainstream press.
He replied: "We print all the facts. We just use different facts."
Peter
I once was interviewed by the PBS "News Hour". They filmed for three
hours ( not just me but others) and were given tons of background stats.
When the piece ran one minute of the fourteen minute piece presented my
side of the story. The rest presented the "other side" and included none
of "our stats". I was on the conserative side of the issue.
My point is that, Yes the media can be very one sided.
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, peter wrote:
Tracey wrote:
I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to
Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is
bad. I
As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.
In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?
Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.
And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.
And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.
Peter
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:49:09 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Police
Message-Id: <9606060749.S741588459@houston.email.net
Re your post, Tracy, I agree with the following that it is dangerous to lump
all police in the same barrel:
<<Just one bad apple and we throw away the barrel. Just like lumping
every man
into the potential rapist department or every woman is a potential slut.
-- OR just like lumping all blacks as criminals, or latinos as
lazy or asians as being good at math, or jews being good business
people with bad business practices. It is bias in EVERY case and
doesn't stand the light of day. Down with all such biases!
bodie
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:25:01 +0000
From: Mike Kelley
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B695DD.7D05@accutek.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks (I'll miss the discussion, but haven't got
the time anymore).
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: From a.w.s.: More Web Sites for Women
Message-Id: <199606061851.LAA17831@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 675
Found on alt.women.supremacy:
From: peechi@bitteford.com (peechi)
Newsgroups: alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Web sites for Women
Date: 6 Jun 1996 12:53:15 GMT
Here are some more websites designed especailly for Women.
http://www.ion.com.au/yoni/yonititle.html (my favorite)
http://www.pleiades-net.com/
http://www.csulb.edu/~persepha/DarkGoddess.html
http://www.maine.com/reality/epiph.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:28:42 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606070228.WAA03027@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:45 PM 6/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia
Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:05:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: daversub@aol.com
To: oakgrove@ix.netcom.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
To: duane@crl.com
To: lbw1femdom@aol.com
To: mcguire@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
To: whimsygirl@aol.com
To: 71673.2733@compuserve.com
To: 74260.1221@compuserve.com
To: marshamam@aol.com
To: mrdibbs@aol.com
To: imaax@aol.com
To: glynnrich@aol.com
To: brandrog@netcom.com
To: yabh33c@prodigy.com
Subject: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Message-Id: <199606071905.MAA11372@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
If Sunday is named for the sun, and Monday is named for the moon, what
is Friday named after?
Freya or Frigga, the Goddess of Life and Love! Freya, the great Mother
Goddess of Northern Europe. Since the Goddess was a Goddess of *all*
kinds of love, including sexual love, Frigg and frigging became
colloquialisms for sexual activity.
Friday was once the Goddess's sacred day, which is why it's the day
people eat fish as a fertility charm! The fish was a symbol of the
Goddess long before Christianity came along. Friday the 13th is
considered "unlucky" by churchmen because it combines Her sacred day
with a number commonly associated with the Goddess, 13. Why 13?
Because there are 13 full moons in a year.
Friday used to be the 7th day of the week. It was the sabbath of the
Jewish Lunar calendar, and is still the sabbath of Islam. Many people
still believe that Friday is the most lucky day for a wedding.
FYI, the other days of the week:
Saturday = Saturn's day <--Roman influence.
Tuesday = Tiw's day <---The forgotton god, also called Tyr. A
Mars-like Aryan God.
Wednesday = Woden or Odin's day (Wodensdag)
Thursday - Thor's day (Thorsdag) ( I assume you have *heard* of Thor)
"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me." (Proverbs 8:17)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #97
***********************************************
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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Subject: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #98
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 98
Today's Topics:
Re: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Submissions(?!) to House of Lords UK
Abortion/Free Speech/CDA
Technical Support Job (fwd)
Tantric Instructional items
Manual
Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Manual
Re: Manual
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 15:40:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Message-ID: <31B8AFC6.39BD@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You don't know how much I needed some cheering up this Freyasdag...thanks
for giving me a smile this afternoon
patricia
Laura Goodwin wrote:
If Sunday is named for the sun, and Monday is named for the moon, what
is Friday named after?
Freya or Frigga, the Goddess of Life and Love! Freya, the great Mother
Goddess of Northern Europe. Since the Goddess was a Goddess of *all*
kinds of love, including sexual love, Frigg and frigging became
colloquialisms for sexual activity.
Friday was once the Goddess's sacred day, which is why it's the day
people eat fish as a fertility charm! The fish was a symbol of the
Goddess long before Christianity came along. Friday the 13th is
considered "unlucky" by churchmen because it combines Her sacred day
with a number commonly associated with the Goddess, 13. Why 13?
Because there are 13 full moons in a year.
Friday used to be the 7th day of the week. It was the sabbath of the
Jewish Lunar calendar, and is still the sabbath of Islam. Many people
still believe that Friday is the most lucky day for a wedding.
FYI, the other days of the week:
Saturday = Saturn's day <--Roman influence.
Tuesday = Tiw's day <---The forgotton god, also called Tyr. A
Mars-like Aryan God.
Wednesday = Woden or Odin's day (Wodensdag)
Thursday - Thor's day (Thorsdag) ( I assume you have *heard* of Thor)
"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me." (Proverbs 8:17)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 01:40:37 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Submissions(?!) to House of Lords UK
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960608014037.007c3d64@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Patricia wrote and mark replied:
The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
patricia
Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......
David writes.......
Christine is home (yippee. Did you wonder why I'd gone quiet? Or was I not
missed?)
Seriously, Christine bought a copy of PCPro Magazine in the UK and guess
what I read in the readers letter columns......
The Plot Thickens.
I was happily reading your article 'No To Net Curbs' in which you quoted
Microsoft UK's very sensible presentation to the House of Lords on it's
vision of Government Internet control. So why were alarm bells rining?
Let's have another look at that 'vision': "Moderated on line services
provide a sense of community and help maintain standards," it claims. Whose
standards? I now hear the Microsfot anthem, with 1,000 Internet users
humming along.
"We need to devise a way in which we are liable, but within realistic
constraints," the company argues. Ahh - liable enough to force Microsoft
standards on us all, but not liable enough to be sued if anything goes wrong.
This is the Microsoft we know and love. I can see it now, back at MSN HQ.
Techie: 'Okay, so MSN's a dead duck becasue all users want proper Internet
access.'
Bill Gates: 'Nah, we just scare the pants of MP's about how full of sex and
violence the other Internet providers are, and how much better it would be
with us running it.'
The alarm bells have stopped ringing now, and that Microsoft anthem is
really quite a catchy number. Gary Whittaker.
................................................
You might find Sarah Kidners reply for the magazine even more worrying......
In all fairness to Microsoft, it has been working with other industry
members such as Compuserve to lobby government.
The general feeling in the industry (even from Microsoft) seems to be that
regulating the Internet is a job for everyone - industry, government and
parents. I hope your suspicions are wrong, perhaps this time the Microsoft
anthem is one of collaboration to reach the best solution for all concrned.
....................................................
So. Best for all concerned? Which all would that be. Compuserve and Microsoft?
It looks like Patricia hit the nail on the head to me!
David Stevenson.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Christine & David Stevenson : Authors of the best selling manuals. :
: Largo Do Sandre 8 : 'Prickteasing.' :
: 2500 Caldas da Rainha : 'Fem Dom Manual pt. 1 & 2.' :
: Portugal : 'Games People Play' :
: : :
: Tel/Fax +351-62-23891 : Erotic fiction list available. :
: : :
: Email. : New!! 'FEM-DOM TRAINING PROGRAM' :
: cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt : runs on all IBM PC's. Advises on how :
: : best to train your husband/slave. :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 01:40:28 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Abortion/Free Speech/CDA
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960608014028.00a3483c@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have subscribed to a list discussing the CDA (Communications Decency Act)
and what we can all do about it.
I will not send the next issue as I figure if anyone wants to read more on
the CDA they can subscribe to this list themselves. Just send an Email to
majordomo@wired.com
with the following command
in the body of your email message:
subscribe cda-bulletin
But here is the first bulletin I received.........
David Stevenson.
Return-Path: cda-bulletin-owner@hardly.hotwired.com
X-Sender: protest@wired.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:03:16 -0700
To: telstar@wired.com
From: telstar@wired.com (--Todd Lappin--)
Subject: PROTEST: CDA Decision Icon Campaign
Sender: owner-cda-bulletin-list@hotwired.com
Content-Length: 9160
tick.. tock... tick... tock.. tick... tock......
Still no word from Philadelphia on the CDA decision, but I'm optimistic
that we'll have one soon.
In the meantime, VTW and CDT have joined forces to launch a new Web
campaign designed to help spread the word about the CDA decision from the
moment it is announced.
The campaign invites Web site owners to add an animated icon link to their
Web pages, signifying that a decision in the case is expected soon. By
clicking on that image, visitors to your page will be able to jump to a
site containing the latest news and information on the case.
And check this out... As soon as a decision is announced, the image will be
changed *automatically* so that Netizens all over the Internet will
immediately be aware of the result (win or lose). By clicking on the
updated image, visitors to your page will be able to obtain the text of the
decision, analysis, and other relevant information.
Pretty spiffy. As of 4 PM ET, 2000 Web sites have already signed up to
join the campaign. You can see the icon in action at the following Web
sites:
Rep. Rick White: http://www.house.gov/white/
Surfwatch: http://www.surfwatch.com
And if you have a Web site, please consider adding the icon to your site.
Full details on how to participate follow below.
Work the network!
--Todd Lappin--
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine
==================================
__ _________ __ __ ____ ____ _____
\ \ / /_ _\ \ / / / / / ___| _ \_ _| Raise the roof
\ \ / / | | \ \ /\ / / / / | | | | | || | for the Court's
\ V / | | \ V V / / / | |___| |_| || | decision on net
\_/ |_| \_/\_/ /_/ \____|____/ |_| free speech!
Voters Telecommunications Watch / Center for Democracy and Technology
JOIN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NET USERS IN SPREADING THE WORD
ABOUT THE FIRST RESULT OF THE FREE SPEECH LAWSUIT
June 5, 1996
Redistribute (intact, please) only until June 28, 1996
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table of contents
News - A decision in the court case is near
How to participate
How will this campaign work?
Press information on this event
Background: what is the CDA?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEWS - A DECISION IN THE COURT CASE IS NEAR
The fate of the Internet and the future of the First Amendment in the
information age hang in the balance. As early as this week, three federal
judges in Philadelphia are poised to issue a ruling in the law suit
challenging the Communications Decency Act (CDA), which restricts
constitutionally protected speech on the Internet.
Will the court rule that the CDA is unconstitutional? That the Internet is
a unique communications technology that deserves the same First Amendment
protections enjoyed by the print media? Or will the court side with Senator
Exon, conservative "pro-family" groups, and the Justice Department who have
argued that the government is the best judge of what material is
appropriate online.
Regardless of the outcome, the decision will have a profound impact on the
future of the Internet as a medium for free expression, education, and
commerce.
JOIN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR FELLOW NETIZENS IN ANNOUNCING THE DECISION
When the Communications Decency Act was signed into law by President
Clinton on February 8, 1996, the World Wide Web went black in protest.
When the decision in the historic legal challenge to the CDA is announced,
join tens of thousands of your fellow netizens in spreading the word on the
decision and its impact.
This campaign follows in the steps of the Turn the Web Black campaign,
which was a tremendous success. Believe it or not, many Internet users
had only superficial knowledge about the proposed law and the enormous
press coverage and online awareness afterwards mobilized large numbers
of people.
In addition to the online campaign, there are currently rallies planned for
New York, press conferences from the CIEC and the ACLU, and a net campaign
to raise awareness to the decision and the effects it will have on free
speech.
The result of the first CDA decision is an extremely important milestone in
the fight for free speech online. Will the net look more like print, or
more like Saturday morning television?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO PARTICIPATE:
In anticipation of the decision, you can help keep your fellow Netizens
informed on the latest news and participate in a dramatic demonstration
when the decision is announced.
1. Add the following link *TODAY* in a prominent location on your web site:
alt="Free speech court decision" align=top A decision is near in the fight to overturn the Communications Decency Act.
2. To let us know you have joined us, fill out the form at
http://www.vtw.org/speech/
with your URL. A list of participating pages will be displayed.
3. Attend the online press conference with lead CIEC (Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition) attorney Bruce Ennis on HotWired. More details
are available on the WWW page.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW WILL THIS CAMPAIGN WORK?
After you have added the link (above) to your page, an animated image
signifying that a decision in the case is expected soon will be
displayed on your site. By clicking on that image, visitors to your
page can jump to a site containing the latest news and information on
the case.
As soon as a decision is announced, the image will be changed
automatically (the update will happen at our server - you will not have to
do anything), and Netizens throughout the entire global Internet will
immediately be aware of the result (win or lose).
By clicking on the updated image, visitors to your page will be able
to obtain the text of the decision, analysis, and other relevant
information.
Until the decision is announced, there will be information about upcoming
events and rallies on the VTW Free Speech page, http://www.vtw.org/speech/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRESS INFORMATION ON THIS EVENT
For more information on this event, including press inquiries, please
contact:
Jonah Seiger, Policy Analyst, Center For Democracy and Technology (CDT)
Shabbir Safdar, Online Representative, Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BACKGROUND: WHAT IS THE CDA?
The Communications Decency Act was passed as part of the Telecommunications
Reform bill in February 1996. The law seeks to protect minors from
objectionable or sexually explicit material on the Internet by imposing
stiff criminal penalties on the "display" of "indecent" or "patently
offensive" material online.
Opponents to the new law argue that while well intentioned, the CDA fails
to account for the unique nature of the Internet, and that it will have a
far-reaching chilling effect on constitutionally protected speech online.
On a global, decentralized communications medium like the Internet, the
only effective and constitutional means of controlling access to
objectionable material is to rely on users and parents, not the government,
to decide what material is or is not appropriate.
Two lawsuits have been filed to challenge the constitutionality of the CDA
in a Philadelphia federal court. The cases have been consolidated and an
decision is expected in early June 1996.
The cases have been brought, respectively, by The Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition (CIEC), comprised of civil Liberties groups,
libraries, Internet Service Providers, Commercial Online Service Providers,
Newspaper, Magazine and Book Publishers, and over 45,000 individual
internet users, and a coalition of civil liberties groups, authors, and
others organized by the ACLU.
Detailed information on the legal challenges, as well as information about
the CDA, is available at the following web sites:
Legal Challenges To The CDA
----------------------------
* The ACLU - http://www.aclu.org/
* The Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition (CIEC) - http://www.cdt.org/ciec
Background Information On The CDA/Internet Censorship Issues
------------------------------------------------------------
* The ACLU - http://www.aclu.org
* Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) - http://www.cdt.org
* Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) - http://www.eff.org
* Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) - http://www.epic.org
* Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW) - http://www.vtw.org
========================================================================
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@catherine.renaissoft.com
Subject: Technical Support Job (fwd)
Message-Id: <199606081946.MAA03022@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2090
For anyone in the San Francisco area who's interested...
Technical Support Job
IGC, the preeminent on-line service for activists and non-profits,
seeks full-time employees to join our growing technical support
team. Technical support staff troubleshoot problems via phone and
email, develop support resources and work with technical staff
on research and development projects.
Qualified candidates will show a demonstrated commitment to
IGC's goals. S/he must possess the following:
* telecommunications experience via modem dial-up, SLIP and PPP
* familiarity with the Internet
* working knowledge of Unix
* thorough understanding of Mac and/or PC operating systems
* excellent verbal and written communication skills
* ability to multitask, prioritize and complete projects ontime
* friendly and patient phone manner
The Institute for Global Communications is a full service
Internet provider. We operate five computer networks (PeaceNet,
EcoNet, ConflictNet, LaborNet, and WomensNet), serving over
11,000 subscribers nationally. We are committed to providing
alternative sources of non-commercial information on the Internet
and using telecommunications technology to further progressive
movements for social change.
Salary range: $24,000 to $27,000 plus generous benefits package.
The position is onsite at our offices in San Franciso. Non-local
applicants should specify ability to relocate.
Send resume and cover letter to: Support Hiring Committee, IGC,
PO BOX 29904 SF, CA, 94129-0904. Email to supporthire@igc.apc.org
No phone calls. Resumes without cover letters will not be
acknowledged or considered.
***IGC strongly encourages applicants of all ethnicities, faiths,
orientations, and genders.***
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@catherine.renaissoft.com
Subject: Tantric Instructional items
Message-Id: <199606082205.PAA03177@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 569
A catalog of Tantric instructional items has been added to our
archives, courtesy of Coyote Sings. To get a copy of the online
catalog, send e-mail to
femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com
with the subject
archive send resources/tantra
and nothing in the body.
Happy reading. :)
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:54:01 -0400
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Manual
Message-Id: <9606082354.AA14223@python.magnet.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:40:07 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <960608204007_322433521@emout16.mail.aol.com
I just received this and wanted to pass it along.
Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT
6-6-96
Dear NMIA Viewer,
One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!
Take care,
Zhi
ATTENTION ALL Desktop USERS
There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If
you receive an email message with the subject line "Good Times", DO
NOT
read the message, DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages
below. Some miscreant is sending email under the title "Good Times"
nationwide, if you get anything like this, DON'T DOWN LOAD THE FILE!
It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating anything on
it.
Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about.
WARNING!!!!!!! INTERNET VIRUS
The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of major
importance to any regular user of the Internet. Apparently a new
computer
virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE that is
unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known
viruses
such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in comparison to
the
prospects of this newest creation by a warped mentality. What makes
this
virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no program needs
to be
exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can be spread through
the
existing email systems of the Internet.
Once a Computer is infected, one of several things can happen. If
the computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be
destroyed. If
the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be placed in
an
nth-complexity infinite binary loop -which can severely damage the
processor if left running that way too long.
Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what is
happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure means of
detecting
what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always travels to new
computers the same way in a text email message with the subject line
reading
"Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy once the file has been
received
simply by NOT READING IT! The act of loading the file into the mail
server's
ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times" mainline program to initialize and
execute. The program is highly intelligent- it will send copies of
itself
to
everyone whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file or a
sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will then proceed to trash the
computer it is running on.
The bottom line is: - if you receive a file with the subject line
"Good
Times", delete it immediately! Do not read it" Rest assured that
whoever's name was on the "From" line was surely struck by the virus.
Warn
your friends and local system users of this newest threat to the
Internet!
It
could save them a lot of time and money.
DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE
EXTENSION!!
A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the name
PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a
new
version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files.
DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you install or
expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and
affect
modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and
there
is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.
REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF
THE EXTENSION.
READING CUSC
-
Zhi Hamby-Nye, President
Real Trends, Inc.
Managing information for:
NMIA - http://www.cais.com/NMIA/HomePage.html
OSS - http://www.oss.net/oss
OPS - http://www.cais.com/zhi/OPSHomePage.html
NIP - http://www.oss.net/oss/nip
GRIP and the 749th TBA
Remember: Never ever take a "No" from someone who is not empowered to give
you a "Yes" in the first place.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:37:56 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-ID: <31BA4714.66D5@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia
Tiresius wrote:
Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:47:18 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606090243.CAA07799@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I think you will find they are often written by chaps. It is us
guys who like to tell women what we want them to do with us.
Regards, David Stevenson.
Date: Sat, 8 June 1996 19:54:01 -0400
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
Subject: Manual
Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca
Christine & David Stevenson. Authors of the best selling manuals
Largo Do Sandre 8 'Prickteasing.'
2500 Caldas da Rainha 'Fem Dom Manual part 1 & 2.'
Portugal 'Games People Play'
Tel/Fax +351-62-23891 Erotic fiction list available.
Email. New!! 'FEM-DOM TRAINING PROGRAM'
cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt runs on all IBM PC's. Advises on
how best to train your husband/slave.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:01:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606090201.TAA03290@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 866
RicRalph@aol.com wrote:
I just received this and wanted to pass it along.
Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT
6-6-96
Dear NMIA Viewer,
One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #98
***********************************************
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:38:53 -0700
From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
Message-Id: <199606100138.SAA07405@davinci.renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #99
X-Loop: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
X-Mailing-List:
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 99
Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: FW: Virus alert
Re: Unsubscribe
I want an apology!
I hope this works
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Policeforce.
Information request
Re: I want an apology!
Kids on the net
Re: Information request
Re: Information request
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: Information request
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Information request
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:12:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BA5D26.2BF8@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
happens.
patricia
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
RicRalph@aol.com wrote:
I just received this and wanted to pass it along.
Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT
6-6-96
Dear NMIA Viewer,
One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:13:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BA5D96.7437@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
RicRalph@aol.com wrote:
I just received this and wanted to pass it along.
Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT
6-6-96
Dear NMIA Viewer,
One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:41:08 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <960608234106_213429870@emout10.mail.aol.com
Dee Ann wrote:
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years. You
cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.
Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.
Thanks to both of you for your feedback. I'm still fairly new at this e-mail
and internet stuff-- so I don't know what to take seriously (as you can
probably tell from the few times I have participated in this forum). The
virus alert spooked me and you have helped set me straight. Thanks again.
Ralph
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:50:11 -0400
From: Janice1223@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <960609175010_213769239@emout16.mail.aol.com
UNSUBSCRIBE
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:48:27 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: I want an apology!
Message-ID: <3320480910061996/A00985/DALEK/11A652701300*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A652701300
Peter
Hey Peter, what the fuck are you trying to say here? I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Petey, ONE topic, I am
offended that you can say that I do not have an open mind.
A rather pissed off Tracey and she is not scared to swear
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:24:39 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7957.990@tiac.net
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------24D823264738"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------24D823264738
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia
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--------------24D823264738--
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:23:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606092323.QAA04022@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1427
Jet wrote:
The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not. It's rather like seeing an accident and the
morbidly curious are right there looking over the paramedics shoulders.
Tragedy draws people...morbidness attracts them like flies. People feel
they have the right to know, that's why shows such as Hardcopy and
magazines such as People thrive...
I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news. Does anyone know anything about this, and
if it's still running? I suspect if hundreds of thousands of people
subscribed to such a newspaper, that would send a signal to the
general media of the most persuasive form: good news does sell.
Sales is often what it's about, right?
I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.
And, remember, shows like 60 Minutes aren't "News" no matter what they
portray themselves to be. They're a "news magazine," they're not a
news show. They're some of the biggest folks who are into slanting
what they show us.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: magnus.thelander@mailbox.swipnet.se
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606092329.QAA04042@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 904
Magnus Thelander wrote:
I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.
I'm not sure I agree that Lawless's statement about law enforcement
people feeling a bit outcast is fully an exaggeration. Did you know
that the highest suicide rate among professionals is among dentists?
A high percentage of people are afraid of dentists, and this can often
spread into weird nervousness outside of the office. I can easily see
how law enforcement folks can run into the same problem. Some folks
can act a bit strange around such "authority figures."
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:37:02 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Information request
Message-ID: <960609193700_131325784@emout13.mail.aol.com
i am dianapor a male slave to Mistress of Torment. i am commanded by my
Mistress to obtain information about Female Supremacy organizations
and how my Mistress can join them. i bow deeply before the Matriarchs
of the list and beg them to help me in my duty to the Womyn who rules
me. respectfully submitted, dianapor on behalf of Mistress of Torment
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:03:19 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I want an apology!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What I was trying to say is that I suggest that you (Tracey) should keep an
open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter
P.S. Thank you for calling me Petey. I have always been called this as a
term of endearment from special people. And I think you're special.
Peter
Hey Peter, what the fuck are you trying to say here? I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Petey, ONE topic, I am
offended that you can say that I do not have an open mind.
A rather pissed off Tracey and she is not scared to swear
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Kids on the net
Message-Id: <199606100010.RAA04156@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2089
mark wrote:
Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......
I was watching a special the other day on how some schools and parents
are using the net for educational purposes. It was very positive.
A high school librarian talked about how they incorporated the
Internet into their school's library. They have 1 Internet-connected
machine. It's in a high traffic area, so library staff are always
walking by. And, it's in general plain view, so if a crowd of kids
gathers around the machine, they know to go over and look. They said
they've had no problems with the kids looking up any kind of porn.
A mother talked about how she deals with having an Internet connection
at home. The computer with the modem is in the kitchen, once again a
high traffic area. She also makes sure her kids know that no matter
what they run across, they can come talk to her about it and she won't
freak out. She said she doesn't know where all of the infamous
Internet porn is, because she's never seen it. She rightly pointed
out that you have to go looking specifically for it, and said as
yet her kids haven't shown an interest. She said that her daughter
has other teen penpals online, and once one of them started sounding a
little odd, talking about seeing someone masturbating or something.
She and her daughter decided that this person may not really be a
teenager, and so her daughter simply stopped writing back and forth
with the person because she herself was uncomfortable. Problem
solved.
These are some great examples of how to deal with the net where kids
are involved.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-Id: <199606100052.RAA04216@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1088
Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:
i am dianapor a male slave to Mistress of Torment. i am commanded by my
Mistress to obtain information about Female Supremacy organizations
and how my Mistress can join them. i bow deeply before the Matriarchs
of the list and beg them to help me in my duty to the Womyn who rules
me. respectfully submitted, dianapor on behalf of Mistress of Torment
There is information in the archives pertaining to Femsupremacy
organizations. These are the orb archive, and the smc-ulc archive.
(If anyone has information to add to the Femsuprem orgs archives,
please let me know.)
To get everything in these two archives, write to
femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com
with the subject
archive
and in the body
send orb/*
send smc-ulc/*
It's only about 10-12 documents.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:57:16 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-ID: <960609205714_131372315@emout18.mail.aol.com
Ms. LeBlanc:
Thank You, Ma'am. May i ask if You are a
Mistress?
dianapor slave to Mistress of Torment
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:05:00 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB74BC.7398@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Noble wrote:
I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia
---------------------------------------------------------------
It worked...I love the cartoon, Patricia.
I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:04:08 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB9EB8.444B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
A sub mail answering my ad, he wanted to make a good first
impression...he did.
patricia
Jet wrote:
Noble wrote:
I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia
---------------------------------------------------------------
It worked...I love the cartoon, Patricia.
I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?
Jet
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-Id: <199606100108.SAA04263@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 550
Jet wrote:
I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?
Woah, please no. :) Picture files are huge. Please don't post
pictures to this mailing list without clearing them with me first.
Dee-Ann
List Administrator
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:10:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-Id: <199606100110.SAA04273@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 394
Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:
Thank You, Ma'am. May i ask if You are a
Mistress?
I do own a few fellows.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:12:11 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BB766B.3347@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
But you can get a virus from downloading email or things contained in
email such as photos...
Patricia, where do you get MacAfee net virus protection systems?
Jet
to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:09:04 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-ID: <31BB75B0.1AFC@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee_Ann
I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news. Does anyone know anything about this, and
if it's still running?
Unfortunately, the paper went bankrupt... Sad, but true. They couldn't
get enough people to subscribe.
I suspect if hundreds of thousands of people
subscribed to such a newspaper, that would send a signal to the
general media of the most persuasive form: good news does sell.
Sales is often what it's about, right?
Very, very true, but people have to want it and if people don't subscribe, then it
won't make it. I hear people all the time saying
that if there WAS a newspaper that printed could news they would
subscribe... I have no idea what happened to those people. I subscribed to it,
but then they sent me the notice. I wonder if anyone else
would be willing to start another one...
I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.
Exactly my point, bad news sells...
And, remember, shows like 60 Minutes aren't "News" no matter what they
portray themselves to be. They're a "news magazine," they're not a
news show. They're some of the biggest folks who are into slanting
what they show us.
Not surprising looking at their ratings...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:18:32 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-ID: <960609211831_410670228@emout19.mail.aol.com
Ms. LeBlanc:
i thought i was in the presence of a Mistress. i bow deeply before You,
Ma'am.
my Mistress would wish me to convey Her warmest greetings to You. How
should i address You, Ma'am. Mistress is now putting me through obedience
and humiliation training and She wants me to be as servile as possible.
respectfully submitted, dianapor
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:21:38 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BBA2D2.1F1B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I downloaded it from Compuserve...where I hate to go..but they do have
good downloads.
patricia
and sorry dee ann about the cartoon...could not resist..next time I will
ask....
Jet wrote:
But you can get a virus from downloading email or things contained in
email such as photos...
Patricia, where do you get MacAfee net virus protection systems?
Jet
to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #99
***********************************************
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 100
Today's Topics:
A nice turn
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: Manual
Re: A nice turn
Peter - You're annoying me
Help
Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Help
Femina Society
Re: Femina Society
Policeforce.
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Introduction and fugue
Re: Femina Society
Re: Femina Society
«a ne fait rien
Hello, My Friends!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606100137.SAA08346@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1828
Ralph wrote:
Dee Ann wrote:
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years. You
cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.
Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.
(and later some advice about Macafee Virus protection).
Thanks to both of you for your feedback. I'm still fairly new at this e-mail
and internet stuff-- so I don't know what to take seriously (as you can
probably tell from the few times I have participated in this forum). The
virus alert spooked me and you have helped set me straight. Thanks again.
Now, this was very nice development: Ralph (correctly) passed
on a virus warning, but about an old (or bogus) virus.
Two =women= then stepped forward and gently but firmly set the
situation straight and updated Ralph's (and our) knowledge.
This they did without in any way demeaning or flaming Ralph
or making their points at his expense (which male geeks might
well have).
(The implication that both Dee and Patricia are 'geeks' is
quite intentional: they are both damned good ones, as all the
evidence so far shows.)
A nice micro-illustration of the future, one hopes, and a small
slice of Doctress Neutopia's vision of the _Feminization of
Cyberspace_. :)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:45:34 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7E3E.5A17@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee-Ann--
I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?
Woah, please no. :) Picture files are huge. Please don't post
pictures to this mailing list without clearing them with me first.
No problem...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:48:24 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7EE8.3E3B@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia--
I bet he did! ; How do I send mail to you so I don't clutter
the group with the little things I send to you, such as this.
Jet
jet@nwlink.com
A sub mail answering my ad, he wanted to make a good first
impression...he did.
patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606100149.SAA09476@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 930
Patricia wrote;
why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia
Tiresius wrote:
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Males very often write such materials, either as ghost writing
assignments or as assigned exercises for their own formation and
very often as blatant fantasy. All have their uses.
I have such an assignment now, and should be working on it now.
rather than checking in here. ;P
I will hear about it in the morning, no doubt.
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 22:30:47 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-ID: <31BBB307.32AA@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Coyote sings:
your ending is much like the rules I have embroidered on my walls for my
life...I heed them, I will share:
Pay Attention
Follow Your Bliss
Do No Harm
Be Here Now
Take No Prisoners (they only tie you down & I don't switch) :-)
dems my rules...
patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:35:14 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-ID: <0408351410061996/A03315/DALEK/11A653A30700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A653A30700
First Peter writes:
haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.
Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.
So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter
And then good ol' Peter writes:
open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter
In the first post Peter, you tell me that you don't have all the information,
you don't know me, nor how we got to this point, so how the heck did you get
the idea that I am not open minded about this discussion?
You, Peter, sound like a reporter. Because I mention that I have exposure to
how Government policy is put into place, you automatically jump to the
conclusion that I advise Government, typical. I don't know where you got this
idea from, I merely mentioned how my awareness became when it comes to the
unbias of the media. I also used other issues to point out the problem, but
again Peter, you bring up the Government issue.
I have an open mind, if it was any more open, I'd have a problem with wind
blowing through. I quest for the truth and I like to view both sides of the
story being covered. If the media are doing such a wonderful job in covering
stories and issues, why is it that the general public's opinion swings when the
media has so much influence? Give the public enough advertising of someone
suspected of a crime and we will believe that person is guilty regardless if
that person is not.
Peter also wrote:
mind about the media.
Pardon? The post I was replying to, written by Peter stated:
I dunno Peter, but you prove my point simply by posting. I still want and
deserve an apology.
Tracey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:01:45 -0400
From: JYogi@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Help
Message-ID: <960609230144_213939643@emout16.mail.aol.com
Hi I am probably not suppose to ask this here and if I am not please ignore
this message and forgive me. I am new to the scene attractive 23 yr old swm
sub I am from Michigan and looking for a Mistress with really no luck I am
able to find Mistress from everywhere else but here. Could someone please
tell me where to look or recomend me to someone. Thanks JYogi@aol.com
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:25:18 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tracey:
You can wait until hell freezes over before I apologize.
I posted an honest comment and you attacked me.
If you can't take criticism and honest debate and respond in a thoughtful
manner, that's your problem.
Enough said. I'll stop this, if you will. In fact, I'll stop this even if
you won't.
Peter (aka Petey)
First Peter writes:
haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.
Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.
So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter
And then good ol' Peter writes:
open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter
In the first post Peter, you tell me that you don't have all the information,
you don't know me, nor how we got to this point, so how the heck did you get
the idea that I am not open minded about this discussion?
You, Peter, sound like a reporter. Because I mention that I have exposure to
how Government policy is put into place, you automatically jump to the
conclusion that I advise Government, typical. I don't know where you got this
idea from, I merely mentioned how my awareness became when it comes to the
unbias of the media. I also used other issues to point out the problem, but
again Peter, you bring up the Government issue.
I have an open mind, if it was any more open, I'd have a problem with wind
blowing through. I quest for the truth and I like to view both sides of the
story being covered. If the media are doing such a wonderful job in covering
stories and issues, why is it that the general public's opinion swings when the
media has so much influence? Give the public enough advertising of someone
suspected of a crime and we will believe that person is guilty regardless if
that person is not.
Peter also wrote:
mind about the media.
Pardon? The post I was replying to, written by Peter stated:
I dunno Peter, but you prove my point simply by posting. I still want and
deserve an apology.
Tracey
___________________________________________________________________
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:32:43 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: williams@bayboro.stpt.usf.edu
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Noble wrote:
You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
happens.
Not so true anymore. This isn't the proper forum for discussions of
virii/trojan horses, but you can get virii from non-executables. The
Concept "virus" that infects Microsoft Word documents and templates is an
example of such a virii. There are also such things as "ANSI-BOMBS"
which uses ANSI escape sequences.
FWIW: The Good Times virus is indeed a hoax that has spawned a FAQ about
it. You can do a net search for it.
The Pk Zip v3.0 trojan actually did exist. However, I have not seen
hide nor hair of it in over a year.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-Id: <199606100359.UAA04404@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 391
Tracey and peter: please take this to private e-mail if you insist on
going back and forth at each other.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606100409.VAA04431@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1472
Jet wrote:
Unfortunately, the paper went bankrupt... Sad, but true. They couldn't
get enough people to subscribe.
That's interesting in and of itself. I've had this nasty feeling for
a long time that as much as most people protest that they like to hear
good news, they're much more likely to go out of their way to hear bad
news.
Very, very true, but people have to want it and if people don't subscribe, then it
won't make it. I hear people all the time saying
that if there WAS a newspaper that printed could news they would
subscribe... I have no idea what happened to those people. I subscribed to it,
but then they sent me the notice. I wonder if anyone else
would be willing to start another one...
What kind of good news was it? Did they track down good human
interest stories and the like?
I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.
Exactly my point, bad news sells...
Has it always been that way? Or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it
mostly an American/North American thing, or more worldwide? Any facts
to lend to this quandry, anyone?
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Help
Message-Id: <199606100429.VAA04459@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 759
JYogi@aol.com wrote:
Hi I am probably not suppose to ask this here and if I am not please ignore
this message and forgive me. I am new to the scene attractive 23 yr old swm
sub I am from Michigan and looking for a Mistress with really no luck I am
able to find Mistress from everywhere else but here. Could someone please
tell me where to look or recomend me to someone. Thanks JYogi@aol.com
Try the Usenet groups alt.sex.femdom, and alt.personals.bondage.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:38:09 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610013808_410817462@emout14.mail.aol.com
i am a male slave to Mistress of Torment. my Mistress is interested in
knowing
if the Femina Society exists and if it is still located near Boston. my
Mistress
would appreciate any information which is available from the Matriarchs,
slaves,
or other members of this list. Respectfully submitted, dianapor
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 22:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-Id: <199606100542.WAA04618@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 912
Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:
i am a male slave to Mistress of Torment. my Mistress is interested in
knowing
if the Femina Society exists and if it is still located near Boston. my
Mistress
would appreciate any information which is available from the Matriarchs,
slaves,
or other members of this list. Respectfully submitted, dianapor
The Femina Society used to participate on this list, but there were a
few problems with one of their people and they finally left. Last I
heard from any of them, the woman who ran it (Ms. Deering) was leaving
and happy to be doing so. I would generally avoid the Femina Society.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:02:19 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606100541.HAA26875@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
people feeling a bit outcast is fully an exaggeration. Did you know
that the highest suicide rate among professionals is among dentists?
I didn't know that. How does the suicide rate among dentists compare to
the suicide rate of the profession with highest rate of suicide? Do you
know?
A high percentage of people are afraid of dentists, and this can often
spread into weird nervousness outside of the office. I can easily see
Strange. I can see how someone can fear what the dentist may *do* to
you, because it may hurt, but that doesn't make the dentist an evil
person. Wouldn't the same thing apply to doctors? A lot of the stuff they
do to people hurts too.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:08:50 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606100541.HAA26891@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
Has it always been that way? Or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it
mostly an American/North American thing, or more worldwide? Any facts
to lend to this quandry, anyone?
Here in Sweden bad news in the norm in the media too. Perhaps people in
general consider good news to be normal, while they consider bad news to
be the exception.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:04:00 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606100659.GAA15058@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
FWIW: The Good Times virus is indeed a hoax that has spawned a FAQ about
it. You can do a net search for it.
I have a copy of the FAQ. downloaded it today. It's quite long.
Drop me a line if you want it.
David Stevenson.
David Stevenson
Largo Do Sandre 8
2500 Caldas da Rainha
Portugal
Tel/Fax +351-62-23891
Email:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 23:14:20 -0700
From: Brett J Wakefield
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Introduction and fugue
Message-ID: <31BBBD3C.544C@slip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Since I'm relatively new to the service, as an introduction, I'm the male
partner in a fairly recent marriage (a year and a half) in which my
spouse and I are evolving our ideas and respective roles, for which we're
hopeful this group will prove helpful.
(And, may I say, I'm quite impressed with Ms. LeBlanc's overseeing: Thank
you, ma'am; your efforts are appreciated.)
I'd like to raise a question: Is anyone familiar with Margaret Mead's
"Sex and Temperament in New Guinea"? If I understand her thesis
correctly (no sure thing!), having examined three distinct cultures, one
male dominated, one female dominated and one with gender equality, both
former cultures tended to be warlike and aggressive, though different in
the sense that in the male dominant culture, women adorned themselves,
cared for children and tended gardens; in the female dominant tribe, the
males adorned themselves, cared for the children and tended the gardens;
while, in the third, group, characterized by equality, chores tended to
be shared.
Assuming both that my understanding is correct, and Dr. Mead's research
was accurate, this would seem to me to be of some relevance for whatever
future might evolve for us.
Like I've stated, my spouse and I are in a process of evolving our
relations.
Respectfully submitted,
Brett
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:09:18 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610030917_410845675@emout19.mail.aol.com
Ms. LeBlank:
Thank You for Your help, Ma'am. BTW, i am a rookie slave and i am just
learning the ropes. i need a lot of reinforcement in Female Supremacy.
i don't wish to trouble You but are there rituals or exercises i could do
or a mantra to stay when i feel myself slipping away from the straight
and narrow? i am now serving my Mistress in cyberspace but i will
be going South in the Fall to serve Her RT. my problem is that i forget
my place during the times when i am not in contact with my Mistress
and my feeling of subservience begins to weaken. Also are there
conventions which i should follow on the list ... should i address all
Women as Ma'am, or something like that. Any advice would help me
to serve my Mistress better and also the Female Supremacy movement.
Respectfully submitted, dianapor
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:35:17 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610033516_323481784@emout08.mail.aol.com
i beg Your pardon, Ms LeBlanc. No offense intended.
dianapor
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 05:10:43 -0700
From: rem
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: «a ne fait rien
Message-ID: <31BC10C3.30A3@interlog.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports.
Now there is a story! Ring Black. Hold on... Is this true? Does this
source know what he's saying? can anyone verify this? I have
submissions that will have them at the ends of their hair.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
Just got home from Russia tonight and found a ton of mail waiting
for me. Most of it was from FemSupremacy, and I read as much as I
could. I found it incredible that there was such a heavy exchange, and
one of my few regrets about being abroad was that I could not participate.
I do not wish to bore you with a travelogue, so I can only say
that my chance to experience Soviet/Russian history and culture was every
bit as educational and exciting as I had hoped. Took me twenty five years
but I finally made it happen! Of course, it would not have been possible
without my friends.
Sadly, Russia is an incredibly male chauvinistic society. Coyote
sings pointed this out in a previous letter and things have not changed.
Only the educated women (Zarina has a Ph.D. in Literature) resist this
notion, but the young generation is coming along. My friends worked out
a deal for a guide when they were not available; a 20 year old college
student who showed me around in return for the chance to practice her
conversational English. She was quiet at first but when I started
expressing Feminist views she opened up and even introduced me to some of
her friends. That's as far as I got, so I don't know of any FemSupremacy
advocates.
A few personal notes: on my way over my aircraft flew directly
over, home of our own. Did you feel the
positive vibrations, Brother? Laura, I didn't think my respect for you
could be any greater, but when I read some of the messages you posted
about your adolescence I was amazed that you could have come so far after
such a tough road. Keep poundin' the bricks, Angel, as you are an
example for our Community. I am far from the only one to be inspired by
you, but I will do my best to return the favor to us all.
Missed you all in my absence, and will soon be gone for another
ten days. The reason for this will be in my next posting.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #100
************************************************
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 101
Today's Topics:
WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Manual
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Bad press
Re: A nice turn
Unsubscribing (was Re: A nice turn)
Ms. Charlene Deering
contacting Charlene Deering: -- I think she is still addvertising in the
Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Re: Unsubscribing
Re: Unsubscribing
Re: A nice turn
Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Re: Hello, My Friends!
Re: Bad press
Re: A nice turn
Question
Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Cc: "Jennifer B. Whitbeck"
Subject: WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
It is very difficult for me to speak of personal affairs,
especially when they involve another. But I am slowly "coming out of the
closet", so to speak, and revealing my sub side. Jennifer and I have
been corresponding by computer and phone for several months and have
become very close. On Wednesday I will fly to Philadelphia for our first
physical meeting and my first submissive experience. We're throwin'
down; if it works out Master Strider will be collared.
Peace,
Barry
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jennifer B Whitbeck
To: emersonw@ohsu.EDU
Subject: WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey there, my beloved sub!
I wanted to welcome you back from your travels. I think of you
often and you are the only real motivation I have found to finally crack
down on my work! See: you are good for me.
Oh well, until later...
Love,
Your Domme and Owner.
--
J.B. Whitbeck
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
"Her hair was long, her foot was light,
And her eyes were wild."
-John Keats.
"La Belle Dame sans Merci. A Ballad"
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 04:29:59 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606101129.EAA06935@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
I just received this and wanted to pass it along.
Ralph
DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line.
This is a hoax. There is no Good Times virus. You can't get a virus
from reading email.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:51:18 -0400
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <9606101151.AA15069@python.magnet.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia
I think you will find they are often written by chaps. It is us
guys who like to tell women what we want them to do with us.
Regards, David Stevenson.
Hello to All;
I concur with David Stevenson's observation, that many of these
manuals on how to train men, are written by men themselves. As to why I
think it "ought" to be written by a woman, is simply because it is "Her
Manual" on how to train men. Otherwise, it is the equivalent of a domestic
maid, "telling" the employer how the job will be done, the benefits of the
job, and repercussions of a job not well done.
Perhaps women in general find no need for a manual per se, which is
fine, since everyone has their own techniques. However, I do believe, that
there IS a place for such a manual, perhaps as a "collection of works" by
various women on the techniques they employ, and what works best in their
particular situation.
In general, I find men write more of a "fantasy utopia" that they
imagine, while women tend to be more pratical and realistic. While I find
no gross faults in the manual that is available, I thought I would post my
comments and perhaps start a discussion on the topic.
(Who knows, perhaps the discussion itself might be collated together
as a "commentary manual?")
Best wishes to all,
Tiresius
Tiresius@Magnet.ca
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:45:54 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID:
FE You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
FE when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
FE happens.
FENot so true anymore. This isn't the proper forum for discussions of
FEvirii/trojan horses, but you can get virii from non-executables. The
FEConcept "virus" that infects Microsoft Word documents and templates is an
FEexample of such a virii. There are also such things as "ANSI-BOMBS"
FEwhich uses ANSI escape sequences.
FEThe Pk Zip v3.0 trojan actually did exist. However, I have not seen
FEhide nor hair of it in over a year.
I use Microsoft Word, and found, during a clean-up a .doc file
I'd never seen before. It was a "love letter", and it was
very "dark," a letter of revenge to a lost love. AND it was
signed "Troy." I have the feeling that if I had caleld the
document up in the normal way, I might have had a problem.
Since I discovered it lurking in the system, I destroyed it
immediately. I suspect it was a virus.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:53:24 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press
Message-Id: <199606101453.HAA25062@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
Jet wrote:
The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not.
I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news.
Remember: what's bad news to some people is good news to others. How
to choose stories for such a paper?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:22:18 +0000
From: Mike Kelley
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-ID: <31BBDB3A.7205@accutek.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Coyote Sings wrote:
Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.
At the risk of offending here (I've unsubscribed due to
my hectic life, but I guess the listmaster has the same
problem and hasn't gotten around to it yet), let me add
that executing an .EXE is NOT the only way to get a
virus. The well-known Normal.DOT virus is a
particularly nasty example of a file other than an .EXE
that can cause problems (this is a Word document virus
containing macro commands that will reformat your hard
drive, among other things, when you start up Word and
it executes the macros inside).
So, in a sense, you CAN get a virus simply by "reading"
something -- depending upon the software you are using.
I don't overly panic about these things, but it's good
to be informed (it's recommended you make your
NORMAL.DOT read-only to protect against this virus, for
those of you using Word).
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unsubscribing (was Re: A nice turn)
Message-Id: <199606101907.MAA05214@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 789
Mike Kelley wrote:
(I've unsubscribed due to
my hectic life, but I guess the listmaster has the same
problem and hasn't gotten around to it yet)
I don't unsubscribe folks by hand, so if you posted your unsubscribe
to the list, you're not going to be removed. :) To unsubscribe from
the list, write to
femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com
with the subject
unsubscribe
and nothing in the body. If this doesn't work for some reason, write
to the address below for help with being removed.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:37:58 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Ms. Charlene Deering
Message-ID: <960610143757_131866865@emout10.mail.aol.com
Would anybody know what Ms. Charlene Deering Mother Foundress of the
Femina Society is doing now and how She can be reached?
besogner de la Maitresse du Torment
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:20:22 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: contacting Charlene Deering: -- I think she is still addvertising in the
Message-Id: <9606101420.S762942599@houston.email.net
classifieds of DOMINANT DOMAIN, CAPITULATION, DOMINANT MYSTIQUE,etc.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Message-Id: <199606101937.MAA01127@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Magnus wrote:
Seems to me that that's the problem then. There's no doubt a need for a
certain amount of violence in a certain situation. That's acceptable. It's
not acceptable not to be able to determine when that line has been
crossed. If there is an attitude of acceptance of this, something has to
be done about that, or it will never change.
Does society really benifit from policeofficers suffering from Mad cop
decease (shamelessly stolen from David Letterman). I.e. policeofficers who
think they have a carte blanche to use force?
Agreed on all points here, about what is and isn't acceptable, and about
society not getting any benefits out of such behavior and attitudes. Sadly,
it seems to be the way it's always been, and unlikely to change soon, so
far as men's mentalities when having such powers and authority.
I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.
Heh - you're exactly right on part of this : "Everybody breaks minor laws."
Thing is, most people don't agree at all about what constitutes a minor law.
Lots of folks over here think cheating on your income tax is a minor crime,
if a crime at all. Not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign at three in
the morning when there's no traffic. Having a few beers and then driving,
even when you may be ever-so-slightly over the legal blood alcohol content.
You can find some people who'd think that any one of the above wasn't just a
minor crime, and others who do.
Just the same - people who might chat amiably with one another about doing
any or all of the above, do -not- want a police officer listening, or an IRS
(Internal Revenue Service - them what insist on taking income taxes here)
agent eavesdropping as they talk about saving money on their taxes. They
get nervous, not knowing whether the particular authority is going to chuckle
along with everone else, or decide to bust their chops. And knowing that the
cop or irs agent -can- do so, if they want.
-of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
-stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as
This is not breaking a minor law in my opinion. Using controlled
substances is a major crime.
See, now here's an example of major differences of opinion, about what does
or does not consititute a major crime. Alcohol and nicotine are most cer-
tainly mind and body altering substances, but they're legal here, although
alcohol wasn't for a number of years. Marijuana/cannabis -used- to be legal,
but isn't anymore - despite a lot of medical, legal, and scientific people's
stated opinion that it is less dangerous and causes less damage than alcohol.
Biggest difference? Tobacco and alcohol are big business, capable of lobbying
the government, and in fact supporting laws to keep other substances illegal,
lest these industries lose money as people use other drugs of choice.
There's also the argument that the government doesn't, shouldn't, have the
right to tell a person what they can or can't do with their own mind and/or
body. Making it illegal to drive or otherwise endanger other while under
the influence would be one thing, and there are in fact numerous laws that
do so. But this "Big Brother Knows Best" mentality is instead incredibly
pervasive here in the USA, with regard to substances, with regard to what
knowing, consenting adults do with one another, with regard to whether or
not someone has the right to terminate their own life under various circum-
stances.
So, despite a Marine Corps inculcated distaste for most of those illegal
substances, I don't agree that they should be illegal, or that using them is
a major breaking of the law.
-police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
-intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.
Intimidating and harassing known criminals to a certain extent is a
part of their job. It will reduce the ability of the criminals to go about
their foul business. Isn't that what we want the police to do? Perhaps you
meant something else, when you said 'certain types of people'?
Yep, I meant something else when I said 'certain types of people', as they
have a tendency to be harassing people who aren't known criminals. Instead,
they harass ethnic minorities, the lower class, people who look like they
can't possibly afford a lawyer to protest such mistreatment. Hispanics,
blacks, ragged looking caucasian youths in certain neighborhoods, all have
been known to be picked on by the cops, treated as suspects for no other
reason than race or appearance. It's happened to me, at times when I'm going
around dressed scruffy on foot. (Non-driver equating to non-entity, in many
eyes over here, owning/operating a car being so expected by society)
An' I'm sorry, but I personally feel that "Intimidating and harrassing" isn't
an activity the police is supposed to be involved in, certainly not without
-very- good cause. Too likely to be abusive, with non-criminal types being
harassed on general suspicion by one cop or another, or simply because of
boredom, prejudice, or dislike. Once you start allowing / encouraging such
types of behavior, it simply gets worse, huMAN nature being what it is an'
all.
Example - there was a local alternative music store down here in a place
called Ybor City - old part of town, used to be lots of art galleries, music
stores, coffee shops, and such. Now it's over a hundred bars and nightclubs,
very much a New Orleans party type of atmosphere. But, this Blue Chair Music
went out of business a few months back, for various reasons. It's owner was
something of a local political activist, which didn't endear him, his shop,
or his patrons (mostly young, hippie-ish/slacker type crowd) to city hall or
the police. The night it closed, some of these kids hung around outside,
just talking, not causing any trouble - certainly not when compared to the
Saturday night crowd of drunks and rowdies swarming all around the bars.
Nonetheless, the cops came in and told them they had to disperse, without
giving any good cause for -why- this was. Some of the group attempted to
stand up for their rights - right to peaceful assembly, right to free speech,
etc, and were told that if they wanted to discuss such things, they could be
booked and would get to discuss 'em down town at the jail/court house. So,
the crowd dispersed, because no one really wanted to spend a night in jail.
Again - no laws were broken, no disturbance had been created. It was simply
a matter of the police seeing a group they pretty much knew they could inti-
midate and get away with it. All this despite there being lots of better
things they could've been looking after, that part of town being what it was
and all. Me, I find this to be an example of male power politics and
discrimination, an' not something that should be part of their job at all.
Cordially,
Chase / Lawless
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribing
Message-Id: <199606101939.MAA23358@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 481
Isn't a digest form of subscription still available?
That might have simplified things for Mike and allowed him
to continue to subscribe. He certainly seemd interested.
Whatever, good luck, Mike. :]
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribing
Message-Id: <199606101953.MAA05285@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 877
Coyote Sings wrote:
Isn't a digest form of subscription still available?
Yup, there's a digest. A digest form of a list is where you get 1
post containing (in the case of this list) 10 posts inside it. It's a
way of helping those folks who don't want lots of little pieces of
mail all at once.
To subscribe to the digest, first unsubscribe from the normal list!
Then, write to
femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
with the subject
subscribe
and nothing in the bod.
If you don't unsubscribe from the normal list first, you'll get all of
the normal posts, plus the digests.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:57:36 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606101757.KAA11690@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com
So, in a sense, you CAN get a virus simply by "reading"
something -- depending upon the software you are using.
I don't overly panic about these things, but it's good
to be informed (it's recommended you make your
NORMAL.DOT read-only to protect against this virus, for
those of you using Word).
Well, this has been an education. I don't know how to make my
normal.dot read-only...I have Norton antivirus...is this sufficient?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:12:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Message-Id: <199606102012.NAA26457@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1760
Would anybody know what Ms. Charlene Deering Mother Foundress of the
Femina Society is doing now and how She can be reached?
besogner de la Maitresse du Torment
dianapor wrote:
The last two addresses I had were
charlene.deering@castle.shore.net
and
infinity@mistress.com
but these are from about a year ago and are probably inactive.
You might try posting an inquiry to the alt.women.supremacy or
alt.sex.femdom newsgroups and see what happens. Lady Beclan
reads and occasionally posts in both. There was a third Femina
Society principal, Artemis, who was never online except through
her 's.
Please heed Dee's caution about the Femina Society: there was
a rumble just over a year ago, and much bad feeling, and the
Society effectively fell apart, other details unknown. you might
well be wasting Mts Torment's time by pursuing this.
My own highly personal receommendation is that you instead
investigate the SMC, which is well documented in our archives
and ably represented here by Laura Goodwin.
All that said, dianapor, welcome and good luck in your toils
on behalf of your gracious, serene and puissant Owner. :)
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
besogner de la Raptrice, & q.b.S.p., &c.,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id: <199606102024.NAA27302@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 316
_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_, Barry! :)
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:35:07 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It's true that what may be good news to some, may be bad news to others.
However, I believe this paper was focussed too much. It concentrated only a
good news for everyone. Stories of nice people doing nice things. I have
only a vague recollection of this paper and don't know why it wasn't
successful. I just know that it's no longer in existence.
Peter
You wrote:
Jet wrote:
The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not.
I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news.
Remember: what's bad news to some people is good news to others. How
to choose stories for such a paper?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606102041.NAA28731@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1535
Patricia wrote:
your ending [my .sig - c.s.] is much like the rules I have embroidered
on my walls for my life...I heed them, I will share:
Pay Attention
Follow Your Bliss
Do No Harm
Be Here Now
Take No Prisoners (they only tie you down & I don't switch) :-)
dems my rules...
An' dems =good= rules, too! ;]
About every 2 years I summarize what I (imagine I) have learned from life
in such a list, and try to stay with it, and use it or one line from
it as a device for meditation, rather like a mantra, and it can save a lot
of time figuring things out.
What amazes me is how =similar= our two lists are!
I like finding that kind of energy loose in the world, and watching it
work.
Here are some of the Phoenix Fire Department's
rules, which have been discovered to have universal application:
1. Pay attention all the time,
2. Everybody helps everybody else,
3. Never go beyond your air supply,
4. Never run for a moving rig,
and so on,,, :)
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?
besogner de la Maitresse du Torment
the subject "help".
Thank you besogner de la Raptrice ... i need a lot of reinforcing of my
habits
of obedience and servility and to be reminded that i am owned. i am trying
to be good but a male is wayward by nature and must be trained well in the
ways of Female Supremacy. besogner de la Maitresse du Torment
the subject "help".
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 102
Today's Topics:
bot
Re : The Media Effect
SMC (was Re: Ms. Charlene Deering)
Re: A True Princess
Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Re: bot
Re: A True Princess
Re: Hello, My Friends!
Re: Hello, My Friends!
Re: A True Princess
Re: Manual
Re: bot
A true crown princess. (Was: Re: A True Princess)
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Re: A nice turn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: bot
Message-Id: <199606102118.OAA22268@netcom11.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 930
my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?
I'm wildly guessing: 'utility' or 'doer.'
It also has the sense of 'dependent (upon)' or being necessary
(cf. Italian _bisogno_).
I suspect it was intended to be used rather like the
now universal word 'robot' < Slavic _rabota_, work, or
_rabochiy_, slave or serf and from which cyberculture has
derived the usage 'bot.'
'bot' may be used either as a suffix, or as a standalone
term for one totally dependent upon the will of another.
It was in that last sense that appropriated your 'besogner'
for myself. :)
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 96 17:18:22 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re : The Media Effect
Message-ID: <960610211821_101342.2030_GHW121-1@CompuServe.COM
Dear all,
Caxton invented the printing press and The Media came into existence. It changed
the World, allowing us to be where we are, educated, informed and equal (present
company excepted of course Ladies). HOWEVER we must be careful of our
interpretation, we can easily be lead to believe that the world is not what it
actually is. The following describes a real life episode that happened to me
some years ago :
The Press in the UK were reporting for many weeks the abduction and murder of a
child. This was a heinous crime and everyone was horrified. I dropped my 3
children off at a birthday party in a suburban (and peaceful) housing estate
outside of Portsmouth (UK), and went home, only to be phoned by my ex-wife (in
tears) saying that a child from the party had disappeared, the police were
called and child abduction was expected. I immediately drove round to the house
concerned, and was totally relieved to see my children amongst the throng. To
cut a long story short, the missing child was later found up a nearby tree, very
content to have been amused by the comings and goings happening below.
The moral of this story is that the total population of the UK were made to
believe that every child in every street was at risk from abduction. Even now,
parents are happier to see their children stuck in front of a games console in
their bedroom rather than experiencing the essential un-chaperoned interplay
between them and their friends away from parental control.
Dennis (The Older Male)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:27:04 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: SMC (was Re: Ms. Charlene Deering)
Message-Id: <199606102127.OAA15941@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
My own highly personal recommendation is that you instead
investigate the SMC, which is well documented in our archives
and ably represented here by Laura Goodwin.
Thanks coyote sings *kiss* :)
I hate to be a pest, so just email me if you want my web page address
or info about SMC :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 96 17:39:03 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <960610213903_100410.1764_BHG75-1@CompuServe.COM
Extract from the London Daily Mail
Anne is privately respected - as her brothers are not - within the walls of
Buckingham Palace.
'Anne has got a man's brain' is how one courtier admiringly described her,
putting a heavy
emphasis on the word 'man'.
Dear oh dear! Some people are very slow to grasp the plot.
It is of course the very fact that Princess Anne does not have a man's brain
that puts her several
rungs on the evolutionary ladder above her slow witted brothers.
It is tragic that before too long, the UK is set to pass from a Queendom (the
proper state of affairs)
to a Kingdom (a perverted inversion of the righteous path). Perhaps a force of
light will intervene
and we will be spared this wretched fate. How much better would be the name
United Queendom!
Incidentally, it is also a pity that there are no Female Supremacy groups over
here (as far as I am
aware). The USA seems so advanced in this respect. Perhaps the growing
Internet community
will help put this right before too long.
John DeWolfe
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: FemSupremacy
Subject: Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
Chase/Lawless made some very perceptive comments on the state of
law enforcement in America today, and I'm in agreement with the
statements he made. As usual, I'd like to put in my 2 rubles worth. :-)
In the 1960s-70s America the police would harass the "hippies"
even though we committed no greater crime than the ingestion of illegal
drugs. We were nonviolent instead of thuggish, and we shared rather than
stole. The result was that some good citizens ended up in jail while the
rest adopted a policy of total noncooperation with the authorities. Many
of us would not even provide evidence or stand witness against real
criminals because we considered the police and the crooks to be equally
corrupt. So the behavior of the cops was completely counterproductive.
And if you want to see an example of total abuse of authority,
check out Russia. I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say that
a common sight is teenage mititsia carrying automatic rifles. Their
undisciplined attitude leads me to wonder whether they even know (or
care!) where the safeties are. They got the power, baby, and they'll use
it whenever it suits them. Other cops (and there are so many types I did
not understand the various gradations) just carry nightsticks and wear
heavy boots. As one of my friends said, they can make the Rodney King
beating look like Amateur Night.
Sorry for the negativity, but this thread underscores one of the
most basic reasons for my belief in our ideals. As long as we live in a
male-dominated society we will all be its potential victims. The
violence must cease.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:24:15 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Message-Id: <199606102224.PAA19360@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
I find myself in agreement with Lawless. What is "lawful" seems
practically arbitrary sometimes, even wrongheaded to such an extent
that it seems self-destructive, even evil. Why are cigarettes (which
are simply poisen) legal, and not marijuana joints? Tobacco is
difficult to grow, and poisen besides, whereas Hemp is easy to grow,
incredibly productive on even poor soils, and is a *proven beneficial*
multi-use plant...hemp for rope, canvas, paper and twine; nutritious
seeds for oil, meal and livestock feed; and an effective medicinal
herb. Smoked, eaten whole or in derivative forms, Hemp is a wonderful
aid for a variety of ills.
Hemp (pot, marijauna) should be 100% legal! It could be big business
too, bigger than tobacco! Watch R.J. Reynolds push for legalization as
tobacco's fortunes fall. Since anyone can grow it almost anywhere,
it's harder to control the market, that's all!
I don't even smoke pot. I just see nothing wrong with it! I know many
friends who are users, and the only ill effect I've seen is the dread
of getting caught using it. People in the U.S. are actually doomed to
prison, sometimes for decades, for the mere possession of this innocent
plant! It's an outrage! The *law* is criminal!
When the laws are criminal, and are enforced in a criminal way, who do
you think is calling the shots? Why wonder why people have lost
respect for "Authority"? When the authorities *are* respectable, we're
happy to respect them, I'm sure.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:26:40 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: bot
Message-Id: <199606102226.PAA19429@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?
Gee whiz, why not just ask *her*?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:33:09 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-Id: <199606102233.PAA02599@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
Anne is privately respected - as her brothers are not - within the
walls of Buckingham Palace.
It is tragic that before too long, the UK is set to pass from a
Queendom (the proper state of affairs) to a Kingdom (a perverted
inversion of the righteous path).
Why in heaven's name can't she be placed on the throne? If she is the
"respected" one, *she* belongs there!
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
c.s.,
Your Russian (especially your ability to transpose the Cyrillic and
English) is obviously better than mine, so I will keep this simple in
order to avoid embarrassment.
Bolshoe spasiba, moi Droog!
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Coyote Sings wrote:
_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_, Barry! :)
c.s.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id: <199606102308.QAA02720@netcom10.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 769
Your Russian (especially your ability to transpose the Cyrillic and
English) is obviously better than mine, so I will keep this simple in
^ don't bet on it- see below,,,
order to avoid embarrassment.
Bolshoe spasiba, moi Droog!
otlichno! tochno ponyato, priyatel'!
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Coyote Sings _MIS_ wrote:
_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_, Barry! :)
which shouldda been written
_Dobro pozhalovat'_,
and which advances the cause of Matriarchy everywhere. ;P
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-Id: <199606102337.QAA05699@netcom10.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2269
Anne is privately respected - as her brothers are not - within the
walls of Buckingham Palace.
It is tragic that before too long, the UK is set to pass from a
Queendom (the proper state of affairs) to a Kingdom (a perverted
inversion of the righteous path).
Why in heaven's name can't she be placed on the throne? If she is the
"respected" one, *she* belongs there!
--
Laura Goodwin
The custom-become-law, plus some real laws on the books,
assure that a line of (mostly) male heirs are crowned.
Charles, Andrew, Edward, William and any others would all have
to abdicate before Anne could be crowned after Elizabeth (to whom
long life) is no longer Queen. But it's possible.
Britain has been well-served by female monarchs, when available,
from Boadiccea (she of the many spellings) onward: Elizabeth I
and Victoria were both giants by any measure, even if we may not
have agreed with them in detail. The only dud, alas for our
present candidate, was the first (and to date only) Anne,
celebrated in the song 'The Vicar of Brae' but not much elsewhere.
Anne was very much the tool of her Ministers, Bishops and favorites
and more or less simply took up space, much as we Anglicans like
to remember her pious bounty (which probably kept the C. of E.
corrupt for another 2 centuries, paving the way for its 'reformed'
fundamentalist and Calvinist alternatives).
That said, yeah, I've always thought Anne had the Right Stuff,
especially when she was younger and more visible. I also imagined
that she had other proclivities of the type often discussed here,
especially when she is shown putting a horse over a gate. But that
is only fond speculation and I mean her no disrespect. ;]
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606102355.TAA26514@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:51 AM 6/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
I concur with David Stevenson's observation, that many of these
manuals on how to train men, are written by men themselves. As to why I
think it "ought" to be written by a woman, is simply because it is "Her
Manual" on how to train men. Otherwise, it is the equivalent of a domestic
maid, "telling" the employer how the job will be done, the benefits of the
job, and repercussions of a job not well done.
Tiresius- I couldn't agree more. I would never be so presumptuous as to
believe that I would know how to serve and please a woman better than the
woman herself. She is the only one who fully and truly knows what she
desires and seeks (if she's in touch with her supremacy, but that's
another topic). She is the only one who knows what "trimming, pruning, and
watering" is necessary to produce a succulent fruit to satisfy her unique
appetite. Certainly the man should assist and nurture the woman in her
explorations, and give feedback where appropriate, but write her "training
book" himself, I don't think so.
In general, I find men write more of a "fantasy utopia" that they
imagine, while women tend to be more pratical and realistic.
For the most part I tend to agree. Seizing on your maid analogy above, this
"fantasy vs. reality" is sometimes manifested in the male reaching for
self-gratification (just flouncing about in a satin uniform) versus the
woman's desire for synergy (how can I gain by putting him in the uniform? oh
yes, my bathrooms and kitchen will be sparkling clean).
I thought I would post my comments and perhaps start a discussion on the topic.
Thanks for raising this interesting topic, it caught my eye. I hope others
will contribute their thoughts.
Warm Regards, Paul (maidpaula on IRC)
p.s. I've been lurking here for a while and have been enjoying the topics.
Life is a constant river of learning and endless change. I hope to
contribute a few currents of my own when I can.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:02:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: bot
Message-Id: <199606110002.RAA09556@netcom10.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 988
dianapor/besogner de la M. du T. wrote:
my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?
to which Laura Goodwin responded:
Gee whiz, why not just ask *her*?
One possibility (?) is that she training him to be not only
obedient and devoted, but also to be diligent in his fact-finding
for her. She may, we can hope, value enterprise and initiative
in those most devoted to her.
My guess is she will do this again, just to keep him on his
toes. :)
The act of Naming is an act of power and of claiming and invests
the Nominatrix with very big Medicine indeed.
c.s. (who got his name because a Wise Woman gave it to him)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 03:24:29 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: A true crown princess. (Was: Re: A True Princess)
Message-Id: <199606110123.DAA07994@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:33:09 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
It is tragic that before too long, the UK is set to pass from a
Queendom (the proper state of affairs) to a Kingdom (a perverted
Why in heaven's name can't she be placed on the throne? If she is the
"respected" one, *she* belongs there!
On a brighter note, I can add that Sweden will have a Queen, when Carl
XVI Gustaf abdicates, passes on, whatever. Her name is Victoria. She's the
oldest child, so she inherits the throne. The second oldest child is a
boy, and when he was born, some of the press claimed that the king had
wanted to make him his successor, but the queen was said to have refused.
I doubt the king actually expressed such desires though.
Nowadays the head of the state no longer has any real power over the
politics, since Sweden is a democracy. The legislative and executive power
lies completely with the parliament and the government. Still, the monarch
represents Sweden abroad in many different contexts, and is believed to
have a positive influence on the image of Sweden abroad.
It's my impression, that the crown princess Victoria is both beautiful,
intelligent and competent, and she will probably represent Sweden well.
She moves with remarkable confidence among the leaders of the world
already at her current age. I believe she's 18 or 19.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 03:20:29 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606110332.DAA04656@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I use Microsoft Word, and found, during a clean-up a .doc file
I'd never seen before. It was a "love letter", and it was
very "dark," a letter of revenge to a lost love. AND it was
signed "Troy." I have the feeling that if I had caleld the
document up in the normal way, I might have had a problem.
Since I discovered it lurking in the system, I destroyed it
immediately. I suspect it was a virus.
CybErotiComm Online
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 19:36:55 -0300
Well, the word macro virus story has been stretched a little, as
well. Here's how it works:
MS Word, as do most word processing programs, has a powerful
macro language which can be used to perform common tasks. These macros are
stored in templates, which have the the extension .DOT. A template is
basically no different from a document, except that they can contain macros. Word
always loads the main template, NORMAL.DOT, which contains macros that are
available to everything.
Certain macros have special names, which are automatically run at
certain times. If you create a template called AutoExec, it runs
when word starts. You can also use others such as AutoNew, which is run when a
new document is created, and AutoOpen, which is run every time a document
is opened.
So someone decided to make a template which looked like an
ordinary document, and put a little AutoOpen macro in it. When this document
was opened on another computer, the AutoOpen macro was run automatically.
The macro then copied itself to the main template. Every time someone
created a document on that machine, it would copy the macro to that document.
Thus, the macro was transmitted on every document made by that computer,
and every computer that opened that document would become infected with this
macro virus.
The macro could also say that at a certain date, it would erase
files, or whatever.
The thing about this virus is, it's easily detected. Since
normal documents can't contain macros, the virus must force the user to save
the file as a template, so it can contain the macro. Observant users
noticed this, and figured out what was going on.
Since the virus is so simple, it can be stopped simply by
deleting the AutoOpen and AutoNew macros, or whatever macro the virus happens to
use.
You can also hold down shift when opening a .DOT file to prevent any
macros from being run.
I read this by Mark Paciga on a Win95 help list yesterday.
I thought it might help anyone worried about using their word
processor.
Sincerely, David Stevenson.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 03:20:29 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Message-Id: <199606110332.DAA04660@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
but these are from about a year ago and are probably inactive.
You might try posting an inquiry to the alt.women.supremacy or
alt.sex.femdom newsgroups and see what happens. Lady Beclan
reads and occasionally posts in both. There was a third Femina
Society principal, Artemis, who was never online except through
her 's.
Another alternative is to do a usenet search. This will provide you
with a list of people and their Email addresses going back to the
year dot who have posted to or read from the newsgroups. If you make
the search on a name like Deering it may well produce the result you
are looking for.
Be careful out there.
David Stevenson.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 03:49:30 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606110344.DAA05812@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well, this has been an education. I don't know how to make my
normal.dot read-only...I have Norton antivirus...is this sufficient?
--
Laura Goodwin
Enter DOS and type help attrib and you will get instructions.
Basically attrib +R c:\path\filneame.dot should make the file read
only.
Attrib.exe is the dos program that changes the attributes of files.
(+A makes is archive) (+S a system file) (+H hidden)
So if you type +R+A+S+H you probably will not be able to use it or
find it.
Kind Regards,
David Stevenson.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #102
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 73
Today's Topics:
Unidentified subject!
Sene Giln's post
Gender usage
Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Re: Poetry corner :)
police state
Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape
A brief introduction
Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape - Sex Contracts
Hypocrite
Re: Hypocrite
Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape - Sex Contracts
Re: police state
Re: She fucks (12 Y.O. girl)
Re: Sex Contracts
Re: She fucks (12 Y.O. girl)
Zip it up! (Re: Hypocrite)
Re: Hypocrite
Keeping track of the offspring.
Re: Zip it up! (Re: Hypocrite)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 00:35:18 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960526003518.00694680@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just a couple of short quotes from the 'sift' service at Stanford. If anyone
wants more details of the service I'll be glad to post more info.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
She will first receive an acknowledgement message from netnews, specifying
the email address the subscription is associated with. The user should keep
a record of this information, as she may need it in the future to remove
herself from the service.
After the subscription is successfully submitted, the user will receive email
messages like this every 5 days:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
---------------------
In case an article does not fit in its entirety, the user can request the
whole article be sent to her. She does this by sending an email message to
netnews@hotpage.stanford.edu with the word get followed by one or more article
names in the message body. For example,
---------------------
Stanford seems to have the right idea. Note the use of 'she', 'herself' and
'her'.
Sorry if that is old news to non-newbies.
David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sene Giln's post
Message-Id: <199605252338.QAA02000@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 845
Sene Giln, whoever you are: powerful, powerful lyrics, the attribution
gratefully noted and passed on. From time to time I am glad I joined this
list, and this is one of them. Your post is, as they say, a 'keeper.'
Please post more of this kind of thing: it bestows a certain clarity
and adds some blood and bone to our sometimes wordy proceedings. I
could =feel= the heat from that one.
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Gender usage
Message-Id: <199605252345.QAA02528@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 540
Stanford seems to have the right idea. Note the use of 'she', 'herself' and
'her'.
Sorry if that is old news to non-newbies.
Not all: we need these reminders, over and over.
That's how it gets done, one 'she' at a time. :)
c.s.
(a newbie forever)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:54:25 -0700
From: mgajb@axionet.com (Mark Gajb)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Message-Id: <199605260251.TAA11769@axionet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dearest Laura, you wrote:
A TWELVE YEAR OLD GIRL whom the
court, in it's infinite wisdom, feels is sexually active may now be
considered anybody's, and you don't even have to be polite about it?
Is it just me, or does this kind of stuff make you mad enough to really
hurt somebody?
Please give me just 5 minutes with this judge, just 5 minutes and then he's
yours.
Mark Gajb
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:59:23 -0700
From: mgajb@axionet.com (Mark Gajb)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Poetry corner :)
Message-Id: <199605260256.TAA12196@axionet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You wrote:
Hystery
In my silent reverie
A vision of ages appeared to me:
A giant woman, stretched to the sky;
Huge breasts, blocking the sun;
As deep as hades her belly button;
Huge thighs, forested: hairy.
Climbing upon this mammoth,
Tiny men like mites or fleas:
Fighting, playing, breeding;
Feeding, by piercing the skin;
Hiding, by burrowing in.
Too small to see the woman whole,
Knowing only the use of the blood and skin;
The forest of hairs;
The tides of the eye.
Thank you..
Mark Gajb
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 14:51:47 GMT
From: Len Bounds
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: police state
Message-Id: <199605261451.OAA03660@mailhost.worldnet.att.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I mentioned the burden of proof in rape cases fall on the accused.. I did
not mean
to suggest we have a "police state"; not in our male-dominated world.. It
was just
an idea to consider if you sometimes think (fantasize?) about a world in which
women ruled..
I don't want nazi thugs ruling the world, just consider if women ruled and
men didn't
have the right to vote.
Please don't flame me for sharing a fantasy, i'm shy enough already.. :)
Len.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:28:20 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Message-ID: <8315280927051996/A00891/DALEK/11A5DA5C0F00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5DA5C0F00
Hi! My name is Tracey and I'm new to this list. I'm from New Zealand, work for
The Treasury, female, 29, part Maori (NZ ethnic group), and part European. I
regularly contribute to EEO (Equal Employment Opportunities) issues for my job,
sometimes representing the Maori Network. I tend to be the "spanner in the
works" when it comes to these forums, because it seems that I have different
views.
Anyway, it's interesting to read about everyone's view on statutory rape.
Funny how not many of you blame the parents. Where were they? How come they
didn't keep their so-called 'innocent' child off the streets? Sure you can
look at the system, or the defendant, but ultimately it's the parents. They
should be there on trial for neglect.
Tracey
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:48:34 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape
Message-ID: <9923470927051996/A01061/DALEK/11A5DA6F1700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5DA6F1700
Andrew wrote:
be of age; you have to pass a written test regarding health, birth control,
etc.;
there might even be a spot for certain medical tests to be reported. (I know
this
gets into the AIDS confidentiality question, but I'm just musing here). You
might
also be required to carry pregnancy insurance, so that if your sexual
adventures
result in childbbirth the taxpayers don't have to bear the burden. No-fault
pregnancy?
Great. Now please sign this form which stipulates; "yes I have consented to
sex, and I promise to give 10 mins of head, then we will swap positions and
then....", yep, pretty extreme.
Another point is this: "Hire a teenager while they still know it all" All
that good advice from parents, 'study hard, don't smoke, keep good company'.
'Yeah right mum n dad. See ya, I'm off round da' corna ta have a cig, don't
wait up'. And if I had said that to my parents, well, there was hell to pay.
The "Wraith of Mum" wasn't worth it... Still, there are kids out there who
think they have a world of experience when in reality they are babes.
Tracey
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:13:23 -0400
From: matt garrett <1indiana@norfolk.infi.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A brief introduction
Message-ID: <31A8D783.2035@norfolk.infi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My name is Matt Garrett and I
am 21 year old white male
college student in Virginia.
I am relatively new to this
mailing list(about two weeks),
and I merely wanted to say that
I whole heartedly agree with
the femalesupremecy concept. I
was reered in an uppermiddle
class rural background and have
seen firsthand the cruelty of
men. If I have violated any
tenant of your organization by
responding in this manner, I am
very sorry. Thank you for the
comfort and reassurance that
your organization has provided
me with the knowledge that I am
not alone. Thank you,
Matt Garrett
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 23:46:04 GMT
From: Len Bounds
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: She fucks, so she deserves to be raped (12 Y.O. girl)
Message-Id: <199605262346.XAA22212@mailhost.worldnet.att.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Tracey, welcome to the list. Glad to see you here from NZ. Don't have an
thoughts
on statutory rape though.. Never had sex with anyone younger than me in my
life.. :)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:55:22 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape - Sex Contracts
Message-Id: <31A8EF6A.3091@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
content-length: 1876
Tracey (Tel 4715 914) wrote:
Andrew wrote:
be of age; you have to pass a written test regarding health, birth control,
etc.;
there might even be a spot for certain medical tests to be reported. (I know
this
gets into the AIDS confidentiality question, but I'm just musing here). You
might
also be required to carry pregnancy insurance, so that if your sexual
adventures
result in childbbirth the taxpayers don't have to bear the burden. No-fault
pregnancy?
Great. Now please sign this form which stipulates; "yes I have consented to
sex, and I promise to give 10 mins of head, then we will swap positions and
then....", yep, pretty extreme.
I don't know how extreme that is. In fact, due to the inferences I make from your
participation in the femsupremacy newsgroup, I would be happy to sign a contract
that I consent to sex, and that I would give head indefinitely at your command in
return for the privilege of serving you. The concept of a sex contract is a very
good one. In these turbulent times, when people litigate everything, one can't be
too careful. For those of us whose tastes and practices venture beyond what the
common herd may be comfortable with, a slave contract is an excellent idea.
Especially when contacts are formed through cyberspace, what's so strange about
establishing guidelines for a relationship so we, as adults, can be unequivocal
about what we are consenting to?
Andrew
a subservient male waiting for a hard bargain to be struck
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 12:06:03 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Hypocrite
Message-ID: <3356051227051996/A02161/DALEK/11A5DB053700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5DB053700
As you know, I'm relatively new to this list. I saw something today that may
interest some of you.
This year is election year in NZ. All the soap-boxers are out. And some of
them really p*ss me off!
When I get off the train and do my 5 min walk to work, there is this guy who
stands on the sidewalk with a billboard stating; "Pro-Life, Anti-Abortion". He
is a firm believer of a politician called John Banks, a person every country
has in the election race - anti-abortion, anti-gay (he actually believes this
will make a doorway to perversions, ie beastiality). Well today, this idiot
with the billboard was out again, and with a new slogan... "Shipley, drop the
pill". Jenny Shipley is the Minister of Health and she is pushing for
over-the-counter contraception, like the morning-after pill. This is to curb
our high abortion rate. (you can only get contraception, apart from condoms,
on prescription). Okay, so you have this guy who is anti-abortion and
anti-contraception. If I stop and ask this guy his stand on this issue, he
would probably preach celibacy, okay that's great, but in the real world?
I'm all for pro-choice. Women don't just think "oh great, pregnant, I'll go
have an abortion". It's such a difficult decision and I don't think anyone
needs these narrow-minded people making that woman feel worse than she should.
She should never feel guilty of her choice. She should be given support.
My 0.2c worth.
Tracey
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 20:39:14 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hypocrite
Message-Id: <31A8F9B2.5924@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
content-length: 2765
Tracey (Tel 4715 914) wrote:
As you know, I'm relatively new to this list. I saw something today that may
interest some of you.
This year is election year in NZ. All the soap-boxers are out. And some of
them really p*ss me off!
When I get off the train and do my 5 min walk to work, there is this guy who
stands on the sidewalk with a billboard stating; "Pro-Life, Anti-Abortion". He
is a firm believer of a politician called John Banks, a person every country
has in the election race - anti-abortion, anti-gay (he actually believes this
will make a doorway to perversions, ie beastiality). Well today, this idiot
with the billboard was out again, and with a new slogan... "Shipley, drop the
pill". Jenny Shipley is the Minister of Health and she is pushing for
over-the-counter contraception, like the morning-after pill. This is to curb
our high abortion rate. (you can only get contraception, apart from condoms,
on prescription). Okay, so you have this guy who is anti-abortion and
anti-contraception. If I stop and ask this guy his stand on this issue, he
would probably preach celibacy, okay that's great, but in the real world?
I'm all for pro-choice. Women don't just think "oh great, pregnant, I'll go
have an abortion". It's such a difficult decision and I don't think anyone
needs these narrow-minded people making that woman feel worse than she should.
She should never feel guilty of her choice. She should be given support.
My 0.2c worth.
Tracey
YES! My neighbor lady got into a situation where she had consented to sexual
contact, and this resulted in a situation where it was imminent and apparently
unavoidable that ther would be a drastic increase in her social and legal
responsibilities. She understandably had misgivings about it, and wanted to
extricate herself from the situation. She did ponder the morality involved in
extinguishing what some considered a human life, when if she endured it for a
few more months, a somewhat less painful legal procedure could be had that
would permanently separate her from this seemingly inevitable entanglement. But
eventually she realized that her needs and her convenience were paramount. As
femsupremacists, we agree it is a Woman's right. So she shot her husband. But,
it was in the first trimester of her marriage, so I guess it was okay. After
all, if we had been discussing a fetus, the baby might have been female.
Andrew
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 13:21:36 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: Kid prostitutes/Statutory Rape - Sex Contracts
Message-ID: <1231211327051996/A02639/DALEK/11A5DB551E00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5DB551E00
Andrew wrote in reply to my post:
adults, can be unequivocal about what we are consenting to?
I still think it's silly to have contracts for sex. Not only do I have to pack
my drivers licence (in case I get asked for ID), my lipstick, money, keys,
condoms, but also a pen and a torch (tried reading in a nightclub?) and my
trusty contract for sex. Am I being too easy? Because I have a contract, am I
consenting to sex? Could you imagine the courts
being clogged by people who reneged on their sexual contracts? "This court
rules that you, Ms Smith, still owe and will pay to the defendant, one blowjob"
Silly yes?
And if I am drunk, does this rule the contract invalid?
Tracey
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 02:55:43 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: police state
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960527025543.0067358c@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:51 26/05/96 GMT, you wrote:
Please don't flame me for sharing a fantasy, i'm shy enough already.. :)
Len.
Sorry Len, I thought yours was a serious comment. It's fine in fantasy. In
fact I've written a few along those lines myself. (But then I imagine we all
have).
Kind Regards, David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:26:26 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: She fucks (12 Y.O. girl)
Message-Id: <199605270226.TAA08386@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
Tracey wrote:
Funny how not many of you blame the parents. Where were they? How
come they didn't keep their so-called 'innocent' child off the
streets? Sure you can look at the system, or the defendant, but
ultimately it's the parents. They should be there on trial for
neglect.
Good point, and I happen to agree. I always know where *my* kids
are...what's the problem!?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:35:47 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sex Contracts
Message-Id: <199605270235.TAA03615@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
I would be happy to sign a contract that I consent to sex, and that I
would give head indefinitely at your command in return for the
privilege of serving you.
Marriage is a sex contract. So is hiring a whore. As a Mistress, I
have a sex contract with my slaves...I just wish it was legally binding
(no pun intended). :)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:38:33 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: She fucks (12 Y.O. girl)
Message-ID: <3729381427051996/A03317/DALEK/11A5DBA61D00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5DBA61D00
Laura wrote:
are...what's the problem!?
Yep, my parents always knew where I was. I was brought up to respect my elders
and my parents. Sure when I was a teenager I disagreed on nearly all their
decisions, but they loved me and didn't want me to "go bad". I have an
extremely good relationship with my parents, and wish I did heed some of their
advice.
I read your post re your early childhood and I stand up and applaud you Laura.
You have broken the cycle of abuse.
Tracey
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:44:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Zip it up! (Re: Hypocrite)
Message-Id: <199605270244.TAA09091@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
Tracey wrote:
I'm all for pro-choice. Women don't just think "oh great, pregnant,
I'll go have an abortion". It's such a difficult decision and I don't
think anyone needs these narrow-minded people making that woman feel
worse than she should.
Agreed, especially since the world is rapidly becoming totally
overpopulated! Men must learn to control their sexual appetite! I
believe women must have control over sex and procreation.
Decent men understand, with no problem, the need to channel and reign
in their sexual impulses. It's possible to have lots of great sex with
out babies...women have to take control of reproduction, and retrain
males.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 96 07:55:43 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Hypocrite
Message-Id: <199605270554.HAA14424@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 27 May 1996 12:06:03 +1200, Tracey (Tel 4715 914) wrote:
is a firm believer of a politician called John Banks, a person every country
has in the election race - anti-abortion, anti-gay (he actually believes this
will make a doorway to perversions, ie beastiality). Well today, this idiot
I don't think Sweden has had such a character in any of its elections
for a long time. If any of the political parties harbour this conviction,
they definitely don't mention it in public. On the other hand they
probably wouldn't gain more than a fraction of the votes they'd lose, if
they did make it an issue. Sweden is a very secular country. We do have a
few groups of religious kooks, but luckily they don't have any influence
worth mentioning.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 96 07:59:46 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Keeping track of the offspring.
Message-Id: <199605270558.HAA14616@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 26 May 1996 19:26:26 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
Good point, and I happen to agree. I always know where *my* kids
are...what's the problem!?
Perhaps some parents find it hard to keep a close eye on their
children, when they both have to work away from the home to support the
family? Nobody can be in two places at the same time.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 96 08:05:16 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Zip it up! (Re: Hypocrite)
Message-Id: <199605270604.IAA15015@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sun, 26 May 1996 19:44:28 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
Decent men understand, with no problem, the need to channel and reign
in their sexual impulses. It's possible to have lots of great sex with
out babies...women have to take control of reproduction, and retrain
males.
What's so damn hard about using a condom (ooh, am I guilty of
indecentspeak now ;?) or other form of contraceptive? Even a monkey
should be able to learn that. I don't understand what the problem is.
In the third world, where education and contraceptives are in short
supply, it's of course much more of a problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 105
Today's Topics:
Why Dom Sub?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 01:59:14 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Why Dom Sub?
Message-Id: <199606120206.CAA17741@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
There has been some discussion in this list of whether a man should
write a training manual. I briefly responded already.
In the article below, I think I explain why I felt the need to.
There are a couple of references to dom sub play where the male is the
top. If this offends you do not read the article.
By far the majority of this article discusses male psychosexual
development from my perspective and thence fem-dom. Fem-dom is of
course not Fem-Supremacy, but no doubt the Fem-Supremacists on this
list will find something of value neverthless. I have tried, but it is not
possible to remove the offending lines without disrupting the balance
of the article and it's essential explanations of one male's
psychology.
Dom - Sub. A discussion by David Stevenson.
Christine and I are both in our early forties and we have been
together now for seventeen years. I first introduced Christine to
domination and submission soon after we met. We were running our
own business and found it increasingly difficult to make time to
enjoy the roles we were creating for ourselves. Eventually we
decided that it was our ambition to create a lifestyle that would
allow us to assume our respective roles for as long as we wanted.
Having attended a couple of clubs we found that they were
restrictive. They did not allow us to live out our roles in a
realistic way. One got dressed up, went out for the evening,
played a few games and then it was back to business. We discussed
it, (a lot) and decided that what we were missing was also bound
to be needed by other couples.
We formed Casal do Sandre in the hope that it would permit us to
assume our roles for more of the time. We set up a conventional
tourist complex in a genuine and unique area of Portugal. For six
to eight months and especially in July, August and September we
were incredibly busy. In the Spring and Autumn we encouraged
people with unconventional preferences to visit us, rent an
apartment, and socialise.
Most of the couples who attended these events were into the
Female Dominant lifestyle or role playing. This is perhaps
because these are the roles that Christine and I are most
comfortable with. Possibly though, couples where the woman is
submissive are somewhat more protective of the lesser(?) half.
Of the couples who attended there have been many tastes and
fetishes. They have included those into leather, rubber,
exhibitionism and bondage. Transvestites, schoolboys, babies, and
doggies have been demonstrated for the amusement of the groups of
Mistresses. Corporal punishment ranging from a light hand
spanking to full public flogging according to individual tastes.
We are not swingers. The couples who attended were not interested
in sexual activities with anyone but their own partners. The
pleasures of fetishism and domination and submission are
generally regarded as 'safer sex activities' being more esoteric
in nature.
Nowadays, the scene seems to be well catered for in England and
America. So we are now concentrating on conventional tourism for
the foreseeable future, as this area of our business was always
the mainstay.
One thing was abundantly clear. The vast majority of couples were
like ourselves. A submissive, pressurising his wife into play
acting the role of dominant for his pleasure.
Like ourselves, they found that what they wanted was to find ways
to make their play acting more real, more (semi) permanent.
Indeed to find ways to integrate it into their everyday lives.
Not just for a few hours in a nightclub.
In my ten years experience of working, and in over twenty of
playing, in the area of domination and submission I have never
met a genuine slave. Nor have I met a real life Master or
Mistress. By that I mean that everyone was playing consensual
role play games. I am glad that it is so, for without consent it
would not be loving sex-play.
Very few of the dominant ladies I have encountered have been play
acting the role of sadist for money. By far the majority have
been spouses play acting to please their husbands and lovers.
Even amongst those dominant ladies who do it for the money I have
rarely met a lady who did not obviously care for her subjects.
(The same may not be true of all of their submissive clients).
In one or two exceptional cases, these games have been developed
with assumed consent. By that I mean with little discussion of
respective fantasies. Thus allowing the participants the beauty
of believing their games are real life. However by far the vast
majority have to do it the hard way, by talking it out until some
mutual understanding is reached.
One hears of men who have visited prostitutes and have had
disappointing experiences. I have never visited a prostitute
myself and have been fortunate in only meeting women who care for
their men in the S&M scene. Although, despite caring, they rarely
understood them.
The dominant men I have met have all been, almost without
exception in my opinion, play acting sadist to please their
spouses. Many of those men have found genuine excitement for
themselves in that role, but a large part of their motivation was
to please their spouses.
This does not mean that there are not genuine Masters (or perhaps
even Mistresses) out there. It is just that they have not opted
to come for a visit/holiday at our establishment in Portugal, and
have not been encountered by us at other places we have
frequented.
A lot of the men and women I have met genuinely enjoyed the role
play games. Many of them gain enjoyment in both the roles of
dominant and submissive. By far the majority of people seem to
prefer the submissive role. I evince these facts as evidence that
Sado Masochism is far from what people understand by the word
Sadism. I have not encountered any sadists abusing their victims,
only submissives demanding more abuse from their partners.
There probably are real sadists around. But I do not think you'll
find them primarily in the sex industries or in the much
publicised Sado-Maso bars and clubs. There are real slaves in
this world, but equally they are not primarily in the 'first
world' sex industries. Dealing with real sadists and the presence
of genuine slavery is a geo-political issue which is not the
function of this article or my computer programme.
There are stories of women being forced to work in the sex
industry; undoubtedly this happens in parts of America, Asia, and
elsewhere. By far the majority of women who are prostitutes or
who make erotic films do so out of choice. Where force is
involved it is morally wrong and should be tackled by our laws
and government. Where the government should stay out and leave
people alone is when they are freely indulging in acts that can
harm no-one but themselves and a consenting partner. In the
majority of cases those games we play do us the world of good.
Besides, 'Whose life is it anyway?'
In the program, most of the ideas referred to are with the
female in the dominant role. Like most male submissive I have
switchable fantasies. Without wanting to offend any fem-dom
purists I have where it excites me included some of those
fantasies.
Why dom-sub?
The latest research on mating in the human species shows that the
original design (or conception?) of men and women was for a four
to five year mating and partnering cycle. Whilst many
relationships last much longer, the statistics show a marked
tendency for relationships to break up in four to five years. In
an uncivilised community of humans, child rearing is best served
by keeping partners together for the first five years of a
child's life. Genetic diversity and the success of the species is
best achieved by moving on to new partnerships.
The sex is always best in those early years as a means of keeping
you together. The process of falling in love and sexual
attraction is at once bio-chemical and psychological. Those
chemical and psychological relationships are even as I write
being researched in much greater detail than previously. Some
facts are already common knowledge. Our body language and the
scents we give off are prime movers in the attraction process.
The psychological thrill of pairing with a new partner is immense
compared with boredom sometimes encountered in a stale
relationship. Some of these processes are controlled by changes
in hormonal state, and others could loosely be described as the
rut setting in. (pun acknowledged). After those first four to
five years both men and women cast their eye on the field to see
if they can do any better for themselves or their children.
Sexual attraction can encourage the male into new relationships;
Paradoxically there can be an advantage for the Mother and her
children in changing to a more successful partner.
This process is subconscious in many but may become consciously
acknowledged. "My wife doesn't understand me." "He doesn't seem
interested in me any more." The seven year itch may well be the
result of two or three years of no longer being on target with
each other.
It is acknowledged by statisticians that if you get past those
first seven years your statistical chances of staying together
increase dramatically. Indeed you'll probably be together for the
rest of your lives.
But why dom-sub? For many couples, staying together is a process
of becoming more alike. Adapting and moulding yourself body and
soul to the other. For some this is simpler, because their needs
are similar. For others with diverse sexual needs the process
takes work and commitment.
The dom-sub individual often has a need for sex that is greater
than the supply of available partners in his early life. In some
women their needs were perceived as socially unacceptable. In the
male this creates situations where he associates sexual
attraction with the chase, with success and failure. With women
it can lead to associations of sex with guilt, and therefore
punishment. To some degree these factors are interchangeable
across the sexes.
As I am a man, I can only discuss with certainty the development
of a male. The process of attraction already mentioned becomes
part of his psycho-sexual make up. The rejection he encounters
when partners are not available has to be rationalised, adapted
to, and perhaps even incorporated into his sexual needs.
The process is slow and developmental. In my own case I believe
that I gradually began to enjoy (or at least relate to) being
rejected by women. I began to find that being attracted to them;
the chase, was almost as much fun as having them; arrival. There
is a well known expression which escapes me which acknowledges
that the journey is as at least as much fun as the destination. I
think the expression goes something like this; 'It is better to
travel in hope, than be disappointed by your destination.'
In order to maintain the chase it is necessary either to
guarantee that one doesn't arrive, or chase someone else soon
afterwards. Playing the field.
Again in my own case I feel that there was the psychological need
to pair bond, for emotional security perhaps. So chasing
different partners was not the ideal. The ideal, not consciously
recognised at the beginning, would be a partner that satisfied
all the criteria of the urge to pair, but at the same time
managed to keep me on sexual tenterhooks and maintain the chase.
It is common in many parts of the world for a man to keep a
Mistress for the latter and a wife for the former. In our
'Western' societies this is frowned upon.
Perhaps I am unusual in having early sexual experiences and
sensations, but I think not. My earliest memories of sexual
arousal rushing through my body were as a small boy of six or
seven. Without an erection, but with the same effect on the mind
and the same chemicals surging around the body. Lust is a bio-
chemical and physical sensation that is accompanied by thoughts
and awareness. The two blend in early years and help create and
mould the sexual make up of the individual.
Throughout childhood and teenage years, the criteria which
identified women as satisfying my needs were experienced and
perhaps subconsciously integrated into my psyche. The unavailable
schoolteacher made one 'fall in love' whilst still being a
disciplinarian. The girl who wouldn't date with me gave one that
un-requited love sensation, while I could label her as a stuck up
bitch. The girl one wrestled with as a small boy sits on one's
chest and the scent of woman is encountered, arousal and
submission combine.
A boy plays with his older sister on a playground swing, he is
seated and she is standing astride him, working the swing into
motion. His head goes under her skirt and he feels excited and
aroused. Thereafter he wants to play on the swing with his sister
every day.
Perhaps even before the child could walk, he was crawling around
the floor in the presence of women. Perhaps the scent of an
aunt's feet in nylon and leather shoes provided a similar
chemical rush.
Certainly many people report the profound effect that the smell
of leather has on them. Some equate it with arousal, others with
a deep sense of comfort and security. Is this because of a
similarity to the scent of human pheromones? Do male pheromones
make women feel secure and provided for? I have certainly known
more than one woman who liked to put on a man's dressing gown
when their own was equally available. Equally certain is that the
scent of a woman arouses many, if not all, men.
There are famous research experiments with pheromones, one
recently reported involved spraying seats in a theatre with male
and female pheromones. All the men who entered sat in the area
sprayed with female pheromones.
I have not even discussed sight and sound. The sight of a woman
in high heels, the sound of the steel tips clicking on a floor.
The power of colours, black and white contrasts at stocking top
and knickers. Red and black contrasting and summoning
subconscious power messages. There is much research in these
areas, suffice it to say that they all have their effect on the
growing male.
By the time I was ten I was actively encouraging a girl to tie me
to a tree, hoping that she would undo my trousers; seeking her
control, wanting to be humiliated by such an act. Even at that
age, one knew that to get a girl to put her hand in your
trousers, one would need to offer some incentive. Even at that
age one offered the female power in exchange for sexual contact.
By the time I was twelve I knew that images of a young woman,
perhaps a mini-skirted schoolteacher, spanking a boy's (my?) bare
bottom excited me. By the time I was fourteen I had, in a love
affair, tried all conventional variations in sex. Yet still I had
not found the levels of excitement my very soul seemed to seek.
By the time I was seventeen I liked to pet with a woman for long
periods without actually coming to a conclusion. At least not
immediately. Perhaps it is also true that prolonged petting is a
safer way to be aroused when one is young and inexperienced. But
it was not safety I was seeking, more likely danger or prolonged
excitement. I am certain that in prolonged arousal one gets an
equivalent chemical or Endorphin rush to that experience on the
playground swing as a boy.
Certainly I am not the only man to acknowledge a sense of let
down after climax. It is commonly discussed in the pages of men's
magazines. I believe it is a let down similar to that experienced
in drug addictions. The body experiences the high of an Endorphin
rush, followed by the low of normality or post Endorphin let-
down. Endorphins are released in the brain during attraction and
arousal, perhaps in response to the sight and scent.
I have found that the let down at the end of sex is greater in
lovemaking than it is in masturbation. Perhaps that is obvious
since the arousal is probably greater. But even in the most
intense fantasising and masturbatory session lasting hours; the
let down is less at the point of climax, than it is in lovemaking
lasting half an hour or so. Perhaps without the scent of a
partner the chemicals released in the brain are not so intense,
and the 'down' not so great. If this is so then those men who
purchase worn female knickers may have good reason; they may be
enhancing their masturbatory sensations to a level similar to
that of a sexual encounter with a female.
Every man fears failure and there is certainly no chance of
failure if one doesn't attempt intercourse. How many men lose
their erection their first time with a woman? But despite being a
normal male, overcoming fear of failure with each new partner, it
was not quite enough. One needed a touch of cruelty in a woman to
maintain my interest and desire. To justify the prolongation of
the act by giving a reason for it. I believe that the primary
reason for not attempting intercourse in my own case was the
knowledge that to do so brought about the 'down' that much
quicker. To continue 'petting' maintained the state of 'high'.
There is recent evidence and research into Endorphins, chemicals
in the brain, which may also shed some light on the desire to
prolong the feelings of arousal. Some of you may have read that
Michael Douglas checked himself into a love addiction clinic; the
theory is that being addicted to falling in love is largely bio-
chemical.
Poets have through the ages written love poetry describing the
almost painful sensation, the longing, the desire to worship,
that accompanies falling in love. Many of you will know that
feeling, and may call it infatuation. Scientists now say that it
is the direct result of Endorphins released in the brain when the
process of attraction starts. It is quite common for people to
become literally addicted to these Endorphins in the same way as
the brain becomes addicted to other substances like alcohol and
nicotine. The clear difference is the Endorphins are produced
within and may be more difficult to control. You can throw the
cigarettes in the bin and pour the whisky down the sink, but
stopping your brain 'turning on' to someone is not so easy.
Especially if you enjoy it.
It can become a major problem if the only way of feeding the
addiction is to turn on to someone new. It could be a positive
advantage, perhaps even keep one forever young, if the object of
attraction is one's permanent partner; and if she constantly
'turns you on'.
It is my belief that the desire to worship the love object was
also something one encountered in adolescent 'puppy love'. The
first girls one found attractive inspired one to write love
letters and declarations of undying love. One was afraid of the
giggles of other girls and the ribbing of one's peers, but
nevertheless those first experiences of love were accompanied by
a pleasure pain sensation of complete adoration and worship.
Today the sensation of lust surging through my body is somewhat
similar physiologically, especially when it is maintained for
long periods. One's whole body experiences the kind of pleasure
pain sensation that falling in love produces.
There is also a kind of submission involved in 'puppy love', for
boys, and perhaps for girls too. At least it was that way for me.
The desire to swear undying love and devotion. The power held by
the girls to reject and or ridicule one's adoration. The power to
grant you the favour of their attention.
I find a direct parallel between this phenomena and the phenomena
of the dominatrix, sex bitch, or goddess. As an adult, similar to
the child; one does not want the ridicule of one's peers when one
swears adoration to, or worships, a woman. But one feels that if
the public were to find out they would surely think one kinky or
perverted.
The classical image of the dominatrix sexually and provocatively
attired is the excuse to commit to her, because of attraction,
desire or lust! Her power to reject and or punish is similar to
the power of one's 'puppy love object'. The desire to worship and
adore is validated by her demand that she be the object of
worship and reverence. All of this combined with sexual arousal
and lust makes a powerful bio-chemical, emotional, and psycho
sexual mixture.
It is no wonder that for me, the perfect woman, is now the cruel
prick- teasing bitch who demands that men worship her. The woman
who declares she is a goddess! There is nothing quite like the
feeling of worship, of adoration, of reverence for a goddess; And
that is what I feel when the woman I love demands my worship, my
submission, my grovelling. When I believe that she truly wants
and enjoys her power over me.
I have discovered this through the long and partly unconscious
search for a woman who would validate my feelings. Initially
through kinky sex games with my first wife, and eventually in a
seventeen year relationship (so far) with one woman. Each
experience has taught me a little and opened up more questions.
Gradually I have come to know myself more fully and have become a
happier, wiser and more stable person. (But then so does almost
everyone as they age?). Some of that knowledge and wisdom is
profound and is directly attributable to understanding my own and
others psychosexual nature.
There is one point however that I have failed to mention, which
in recent years I have identified in myself. I think I can say
with reasonable certainty that the desire to dominate a woman is
not simply the repressed flip side. While one found the woman who
rejected me sexy, and enjoyed her cruelty, she nevertheless had
to take the blame for the rejection. She had to become the stuck
up bitch, in order for me to accept or positively enjoy the
rejection or cruelty.
The rejection is no fun if it is total, for then there is little
evidence that she is enjoying it. One wants to be liked as a
person but rejected or abused sexually. One does not want a
relationship rejected, one wants a relationship in which she
abuses her sexual power. Respected as an individual but hated for
one's maleness, or simply treated with contempt because she likes
to treat men that way.
So by convincing myself it is women's fault that I cannot get
enough sex, I satisfy an emotional or psychological need. But I
can honestly say that I have never encountered the same intensity
of feeling as a dominant as I do as a submissive. Because, I
believe, the Endorphin rush, the desire to adore and worship, the
prolonged unrequited lust, are all missing.
It is not simply a question of getting enough sex. Even if one
has plenty of sex it is never as intense as when one needs it
desperately. Frustration, desire and need intensify the
experience. Permanent service to a goddess can maintain that
sensation at a kind of semi permanent fever pitch. Whereas a
permanently available and willing female to suck one's cock could
become as boring as intercourse.
I have found that fantasies that involve my complete freedom to
use a woman for my sexual needs without requiring her permission
are only psychologically attractive. They rarely do the same for
me physically. In fact, in role play the more obvious she makes
her pretence that it is against her will, that she has not
granted permission, the more exciting the fantasy. These are only
fantasies, and may have always been there. It may be the
subconscious repression of these as a young boy that caused me to
flip into being submissive. The civilising process of education
may have made my needs seem socially unacceptable. Or it may be
that the submissive tendency has through years of enjoyment
created the person that would now enjoy the reverse.
Power is an element in the attraction for me. The female power to
reject. But with years of experience it is now possible to see
that male power to enforce holds a similar (but still not
comparable) level of excitement. I believe the truth is that
one's civilised conscious mind will not allow one to abuse a
woman without her permission to do so. But it is also true that
only through such abuse can one gain evidence that permission has
not been granted. An irresolvable paradox perhaps.
I also believe that in the submissive role the male gets a degree
of physical closeness. In worship he gets the scent of woman to
heighten his excitement. Whereas in the dominant role he can less
easily find the reason to kiss her feet, or elsewhere, especially
if she is not aroused.
So today I am a person who enjoys the impression that women are
deliberately cruel to me, because they like to show their
complete lack of respect for men. Equally I would enjoy being
able to indulge my own fantasies of complete disregard for a
woman's feelings by spanking her and enforcing my attentions on
my tearful victim.
Fortunately the paradox is not completely irresolvable. In being
submissive there is inherent permission to maintain the length of
contact without forcing one's attentions on an unwilling partner.
For me it is much more preferable to be the abused. As I think it
is for all submissives. Only if one's partner was a submissive
female would permission truly exist to prolong the activities.
My computer programme is designed to help those women who,
because they care for their partner, want to help them enjoy to
the full their sexuality. The woman who is a natural dominant or
submissive may not need this programme, but it may stimulate her
imagination. The male submissive almost certainly will not need
his imagination further stimulated, but will enjoy it
nevertheless.
Primarily, the programme is a guide, designed to help my woman
become my image of perfection. But it will, I hope, help other
women become the image of perfection for their own lovers. They
may not want to, but then they do not have to use the programme.
I may use the word 'should' frequently. Should is a word that
would not be present in an ideal relationship. Ideally their
needs would be similar and no-one would feel obliged. Where I use
the word 'should' I mean no obligation, I mean that only if she
actually wants to try to become his ideal should she do as I
advocate she 'should'.
Compromise should be present in all relationships. But fantasy is
not about compromise, it is the expression of an ideal.
Compromise is the reality which follows the understanding of your
partner and his or her fantasies. Hence the fantasies and
techniques that are in my program.
David Stevenson.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #105
************************************************
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 104
Today's Topics:
Re: A True Princess
In Defenfe of ye Insftitution of Monarchie
Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
Re: Manual
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 96 18:20:35 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <960611222035_100410.1764_BHG66-2@CompuServe.COM
Bodie wrote:
The shame of Princess Anne not ascending to the monarchy that DeWolf posted, my
first feeling is that aside from the mere idea of a United Queendom, the fact is
-- let's face it -- England has not fared well over the last 40 years in many
respects, and I don't think it matters at the fin de sicle whom the monarch is.
They have become figureheads in the most impotent and infertile sense. (No
offense to my Anglophile friends. I LOVE England)
My reply:
Thank's for your love of England bodie, but please don't be so quick to write us
off.
We started the Industrial Revolution, which made us the world's leading power
for a while until
the World Wars drained our economy. From that point we went into an inevitable
economic decline
which was partly staved off by a cultural resurgance in the 1960's.
Since then, we've taken a back seat to the US on the world stage and had our
share of problems but
we're in quite a healthy state these days. This is still a great country to
live in. Our economy and culture
has plenty of vitality now and we're still a centre of new ideas. Our birthrate
is well above most of Europe
too, so we're not so infertile!
Most of all, don't trust the US mass media impression of us. It is staggeringly
naive. I know because
I visit often and subscribe to USA Today.
Jon
P.S. I hope this doesn't lead to a heavy debate. Let all nations rejoice!
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: In Defenfe of ye Insftitution of Monarchie
Message-Id: <199606120017.RAA26894@netcom7.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 4131
Bodie wrote:
England has not fared well over the
last 40 years in many respects, and I don't think it matters at the fin de
siecle whom the monarch is. They have become figureheads in the most
impotent and infertile sense. (No offense to my Anglophile friends. I
LOVE England) ,,,
Whoa!
No offense taken, Bodie, but please take the long view
and take into account the lessons of history.
(Warning: long but actually on topic if you read to the end.)
First, Great Britain itself -now evolved into a democratic monarchy-
has been ruled, or presided over, by all =kinds= of monarchs, strong
and weak, in its several principalities: Alfred was strong (but so
were the Danes), Ethelred (the 'Unready,' note) was foolish and weak,
and so on through Norman bikers, the strong Tudors and the addled
Stuarts (whose dynasty was punctuated by Britain's one disastrous
attempt to be a Republic under Cromwell, sowing the seeds of the
US Civil War 2 centuries later), through silly Anne and strong
Victoria to the present Windsor soap opera. Now, through all of this,
and especially since Tudor times, Britain has managed to become
pretty much what it wanted to be and to evolve strong institutions
with or without the monarch's blessing, but always with a monarch
to gather around. Britain has won and lost two European
and two world empires in the last thousand years, and always manages
to recover and start over, stronger (as a society, at least) than
before. Why? Probably because of the resiliency of both its people
and its institutions, many of which have been exported to carry on
the good work (and the bad) under new labels. (The less I say about
the people, the better- I am descended from 'resilient' cattle
thieves and 'resilient' pathological murderers on both sides of the
Scots border, many of whom were hanged by 'resilient' courts. Thus
began the American frontier.) But 40 years is not nearly enough
time to do Britain in.
Second, Monarchy in general: Americans especially see monarchy as
a weakened, fading and foolish institution, a mere curiosity from
a quaint past, useful only for SCA content and the curious _faux_
Tudor protocol of most BDSM scenes. In fact the modern constitutional
monarchy provides a wonderful and highly stable alternative to the
US-French (-Cuban-Serbian-Iraqi, etc.) Presidential model. It provides
for a more or less sacrificial person (or family) to represent the
nation, its constitution and customs and its best qualities- to
be human flag. And since Agincourt at least, really good monarchs
have been the best ally of the people against other priveleged
classes. Absolute monarchies almost always fail, but the modern
examples of monarch-as-defender (of democracy, people and law) work
fairly well. Spain's activist king, Juan Carlos, more or less
singlehandedly prevented a fascist resurgence after Franco's death.
The less activist monarchs of northern Europe, still, as Magnus
has pointed out, still provide an exemplary rallying point for their
nations. These, together with the _de jure_ monarchies of Canada,
New Zealand and Australia (I hear the Ozzies wincing, and worse)
are among the most envied and progressive societies on earth. Yet
they keep their Queens. And, oh, yes: Japan its Emperor.
Modern monarchy provides, or can provide, for a circular
organziation of society to supplant the patriarchal-hierarchical
(whew) one: The Queen can be, as young Victoria will someday be
in Sweden, someone to rally _around_. She will wield power _for_,
not power _over_ her people, and can be the advocate of all good
things- the perfect Matriarch.
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:57:20 -0400
From: Janice1223@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <960611205720_554309361@emout09.mail.aol.com
UNSUBSCRIBE
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:06:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606120106.VAA20656@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:33 PM 6/11/96 +0100, you wrote:
Tiresius- I couldn't agree more. I would never be so presumptuous as to
believe that I would know how to serve and please a woman better than the
woman herself. She is the only one who fully and truly knows what she
desires and seeks (if she's in touch with her supremacy, but that's
another topic). She is the only one who knows what "trimming, pruning, and
watering" is necessary to produce a succulent fruit to satisfy her unique
appetite. Certainly the man should assist and nurture the woman in her
explorations, and give feedback where appropriate, but write her "training
book" himself, I don't think so.
In short, I believe such manuals are appropriate feedback, just
incorrectly titled.
In long......
There is of course one advantage in the male being so presumptuous.
He is communicating to his Mistress, and indeed many other Mistresses
just what factors he thinks will motivate him best. His Mistress can
use the training manual to her advantage without taking any of the
contents as obligatory. I doubt that many women believe that they
have any other purpose.
David- I understand your point, that was stealthily implicit in my statement
on feedback.
Indeed it is possible that a Female Supremacist might enjoy the
giving of pleasure to her male charge. Such a Lady might be actively
searching for good ideas for just this purpose. Should we dictate to
such a lady that the giving of pleasure within a relationship
automatically means that she is not a Supremacist?
No, not at all, I would never think of dictating, I did not intend to imply
that. Thanks for your articulate thoughts. I'll strive to make my future
posts more complete. Regards, Paul (maidpaula on irc)
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #104
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 103
Today's Topics:
Good Press? (was Bad Press)
Re: Hello, My Friends!
Re: A True Princess
In Russian
Re: In Russian
Re: SMC (was Re: Ms. Charlene Deering)
Re: Manual
A True Princess
Crown Princess
reintroduction
Re: A True Princess
Re: Crown Princess
Tit for tat :)
Re: bot
In the news today...
Hostile? (Was: Re: reintroduction)
Re: Crown Princess
Re: UK Fem Supremacy (was A True Princess)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:28:22 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Good Press? (was Bad Press)
Message-ID: <31BD1206.57B0@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
That's interesting in and of itself. I've had this nasty feeling for
a long time that as much as most people protest that they like to hear
good news, they're much more likely to go out of their way to hear bad
news.
I think that people want the good news and are actually appalled and
repelled by the bad news, but are actually drawn to the bad news and
yes, go out of their way to hear it because it makes them feel better
about their own lives (at least my life is not THAT bad)...
What kind of good news was it? Did they track down good human
interest stories and the like?
People saving other people, people helping others, people saving the
environment and pets, people getting awards for doing those things...
Some of the stories were sensational (person pulls another from a
burning building, dog saves blind person's life after being stabbed
by a mugger) and I think could have drawn people to the good news
paper, if the people would have read it... Yes, they tracked things
down, people submitted things, they pulled stories from regular
papers and magazines.
Has it always been that way? Or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it
mostly an American/North American thing, or more worldwide? Any facts
to lend to this quandry, anyone?
Dee-Ann, I think it has been this way for quite a while. I remember
people saying things just like this back in the 60's. That's at
least 36 years, and I'm sure if we talked to people in their
60s/70s/80s they would say the same thing, or at least, I assume they
would never having talked with them about their concepts of the news
when they were young. I have several friends in the 80's and 90's and
I will ask them about that. I'll report back.
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 02:39:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
content-length: 733
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Coyote Sings wrote:
_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_, Barry! :) c.s.
Could I request a literal translation of the above, please? A _Dobro_ is
a variant of a guitar, and I would like to clarify what I have heard
about the origins of the name.
Supposedly, it is a punnish name, referring to the DOpera BROthers (the
designers) who originated from a slavic land where _dobro_ meant _very good_.
Mike Woods
mwoods@dgs.dgsys.com
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:27:23 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <31BD2DEB.540F@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jon Woolven wrote:
John--
Incidentally, it is also a pity that there are no Female Supremacy groups over
here (as far as I am
aware). The USA seems so advanced in this respect. Perhaps the growing
Internet community
will help put this right before too long.
I'm not sure what you mean that there are no Female Supremacy groups over here
(which I'm assuming you to mean the USA). I know that on the East Coast there]
must be at least one because one of my subs was formerly married to a Female
Supremacist who he met at a group of Female Supremacists that met regularly, and
as far as I know, this group still meets. I assume if there is one, there are
many others.
Alas, it is too bad that the Queendom may be changing... What kind of King will
prince charles make, what with all his bad press, etc.?
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:32:51 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: In Russian
Message-ID: <31BD2F33.2BC6@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
CS and Barry--
I for one would like a translation... Thanks!]
Jet
Bolshoe spasiba, moi Droog!
otlichno! tochno ponyato, priyatel'!
_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_,
_Dobro pozhalovat'_,
and which advances the cause of Matriarchy everywhere.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 03:45:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: In Russian
Message-Id: <199606111046.DAA03240@netcom13.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2002
Jet asked:
CS and Barry--
I for one would like a translation... Thanks!]
And here it is, with apologies for the distraction:
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, in a fit of comradely Female Supremacist good
fellowship, Coyote Sings welcomed Barry back with:
_Dobro pozhalovat'!_
(Welcome [back]! - more lit. Well met!)
Wondering if his transliteration would be understood, Barry replied with:
_Bolshoe spasiba, moi Droog!_
(Great thanks, my friend!)
I replied with:
_Otlichno! tochno ponyato, priyatel'!_
(Excellent! Exactly understood, friend!)
If this sounds really cornball, it is. When not writing brooding epic
novels or really unearthly lyric poetry, Russians tend to speak like this,
which in its most extreme form becomes something that, perfected as it was
in the Khrushchev era, is known as Politburo Ukrainian. One reason for
Gorbachev's early success was that he refused to speak it. One reason for
his subsequent demise was that he refused to speak it. Today Politburo
Ukrainian is spoken only by '90s Russian comedians, die-hard Communists,
and Americans speaking Russian to one another. Now everyone (except
Chechen gangsters) tries to speak like a Chechen gangster. Politburo
Ukrainian may be restored as the Court Language after next weekend's
elections, which will not be pretty.
(Watching, even as I write, Borya ["Get Down!"] Yeltsin connecting with
the electorate via the "World News Polka." Time to quit.)
Yo Barry: who's gonna win? ;D
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:33:27 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: SMC (was Re: Ms. Charlene Deering)
Message-Id: <199606111228.MAA22176@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
My own highly personal recommendation is that you instead
investigate the SMC, which is well documented in our archives
and ably represented here by Laura Goodwin.
Thanks coyote sings *kiss* :)
I hate to be a pest, so just email me if you want my web page address
or info about SMC :)
--
Laura Goodwin
I read the archives on SMC and Laura Goodwin and was impressed. But I
gained the impression that SMC was only seeking members in the
locality of active churches. Have I got it wrong?
Kind Regards, David Stevenson.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:33:27 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606111228.MAA22167@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tiresius- I couldn't agree more. I would never be so presumptuous as to
believe that I would know how to serve and please a woman better than the
woman herself. She is the only one who fully and truly knows what she
desires and seeks (if she's in touch with her supremacy, but that's
another topic). She is the only one who knows what "trimming, pruning, and
watering" is necessary to produce a succulent fruit to satisfy her unique
appetite. Certainly the man should assist and nurture the woman in her
explorations, and give feedback where appropriate, but write her "training
book" himself, I don't think so.
In short, I believe such manuals are appropriate feedback, just
incorrectly titled.
In long......
There is of course one advantage in the male being so presumptuous.
He is communicating to his Mistress, and indeed many other Mistresses
just what factors he thinks will motivate him best. His Mistress can
use the training manual to her advantage without taking any of the
contents as obligatory. I doubt that many women believe that they
have any other purpose.
Often a partner may find that the ideas written by someone else's
submissive can give new ideas to use in their relationship. Ideas
that provide ways to keep the excitement fresh in a long term
relationship.
I can see no reason why a loving female supremacist would not want
her inferior partner to be happy under her control. Often the
relationship is one of love in both directions, and often the Supreme
Lady desires to provide a little pleasure.
Indeed it is possible that a Female Supremacist might enjoy the
giving of pleasure to her male charge. Such a Lady might be actively
searching for good ideas for just this purpose. Should we dictate to
such a lady that the giving of pleasure within a relationship
automatically means that she is not a Supremacist?
Such male written 'training manuals' might only be used by Female
Supremacists with this 'giving' purpose in mind.
If you want a training manual which concentrates solely on the needs
and desires of the Lady it would be better if no male submissive was
permitted input into the content. Or that a Lady take a blue pen to
work and edit out all that she finds selfish. This is what I believe
ladies do anyway in a metaphorical sense.
I include our own books in this, for clearly I have a lot of input
into our manual type works.
I have never read a manual which I believed was written by
a woman without regard for what makes men happier.
I believe that a dispassionate person might be able to write such a
manual. Perhaps a psychologist, or a person expert in the field of
human relationships.
We both read some of the literature put out by Ms. Deering's old
'Femina' organisation. Perhaps this was heading in that direction. But
neither Christine or I found it useful or relevant to our situation.
Sincerely, David Stevenson.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:16:45 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A True Princess
Message-Id: <9606110916.S768050808@houston.email.net
Re: the shame of Princess Anne not ascending to the monarchy that
DeWolf posted, my first feeling is that aside from the mere idea of a United
Queendom, the fact is -- let's face it -- England has not fared well over the
last 40 years in many respects, and I don't think it matters at the fin de
sicle whom the monarch is. They have become figureheads in the most impotent
and infertile sense. (No offense to my Anglophile friends. I LOVE England)
And on that note,
Does ANYONE know the little "diddy," or poem that is used by English
schoolchildren to rember the order of Kings and Queens. I have been looking
for this all over, and it is entertaining and enlighteind to all (I hope.)
Thank you for your patience --
bodie
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 05:59:08 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Crown Princess
Message-Id: <199606111259.FAA26595@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
Magnus wrote:
On a brighter note, I can add that Sweden will have a Queen, when
Carl XVI Gustaf abdicates, passes on, whatever. Her name is Victoria.
She's the oldest child, so she inherits the throne.
It's my impression, that the crown princess Victoria is both
beautiful, intelligent and competent, and she will probably represent
Sweden well. She moves with remarkable confidence among the leaders of
the world already
What good news...blessings on Princess Victoria. :)
Boy that really catches my imagination...a teenage princess, being
prepared for the throne of Sweden. Magnus, please keep us up to date
on her progess.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:16:00 -0400
From: Besogner@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: reintroduction
Message-ID: <960611121559_553937561@emout10.mail.aol.com
NOTICE
i am a male slave. my Owner is Mistress of Torment. i am permitted to speak
to
Mistresses and other slaves. Please help me to know my place.
To the Matriarchs and other list members:
i just want to reintroduce myself. i joined Sunday as dianapor but my
Mistress
has changed my name to besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. In obedience to
Her command i have changed my e-mail address too. Mistress has not fully
broken me and my habits of obedience and subservience often weaken. i humbly
ask the Matriarchs of FemSupremacy if there are any spiritual exercises or
mantras which could help me to know my place. i am not in contact with
Mistress
for more than a couple of hours most days and the temptation to malinger gets
very strong. If i lived in a Female Supremacist community the reinforcements
would keep me in my place. Unfortunately i live in a very hostile
environment.
Respectfully submitted, besogner de la Maitresse du Torment
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:28:33 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <31BDC8E1.2A71@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jet:
I believe he means in the UK...where BD/SM is very illegal and they
enforce the law.
patricia
Has anyone heard anything more about the couple who had their children
taken away by the state because of their BD lifestyle?
Jet wrote:
Jon Woolven wrote:
John--
Incidentally, it is also a pity that there are no Female Supremacy groups over
here (as far as I am
aware). The USA seems so advanced in this respect. Perhaps the growing
Internet community
will help put this right before too long.
I'm not sure what you mean that there are no Female Supremacy groups over here
(which I'm assuming you to mean the USA). I know that on the East Coast there]
must be at least one because one of my subs was formerly married to a Female
Supremacist who he met at a group of Female Supremacists that met regularly, and
as far as I know, this group still meets. I assume if there is one, there are
many others.
Alas, it is too bad that the Queendom may be changing... What kind of King will
prince charles make, what with all his bad press, etc.?
Jet
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:37:27 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Crown Princess
Message-ID: <31BDCAF7.19CC@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Yes, Laura it has my imagination going full tilt as well...maybe I will have a coronation party at my house...a re enactment...with a
twist.
patricia
Laura wrote
Boy that really catches my imagination...a teenage princess, being
prepared for the throne of Sweden. Magnus, please keep us up to date
on her progess.
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:19:31 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Tit for tat :)
Message-Id: <199606111319.GAA07939@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com
David wrote:
Enter DOS and type help attrib and you will get instructions.
I for one am grateful for such advice since I still learning. I
welcome both computer and usenet advice, so if you guys catch me doing
something dumb *please tell me*!
I also love to be clued in on time- and face-saving tricks.
I'm no computer expert, but there are some things I *am* expert at, and
if you think I can help, just nag, I mean, ask me. :)
We gotta watch out for each other!
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:13:40 GMT
From: jaquet@dial.eunet.ch (lanoline)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: bot
Message-Id: <199606111713.RAA15008@mail.eunet.ch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Most respectful Madames,
To my limitted knowledge, In French, besogner means working hard for a
difficult task.
But i suspect that in Canadian (old French) its meaning is more precise and
explicite.
Your humbly andropeon
lanoline
my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?
Gee whiz, why not just ask *her*?
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:58:20 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: In the news today...
Message-Id: <199606111358.GAA22695@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com
REPUBLICAN GROUPS WANT ABORTION PLANK CHANGED
Several Republican groups Monday said Bob Dole had not gone far enough
to satisfy ``pro-choice'' party members on abortion and called for an
end to the rigid anti-abortion plank in the party platform. [Reuters]
PREGNANCY AMONG LEADING CAUSES OF THIRD WORLD DEATHS: CHILDBIRTH
KILLS 600,000 WOMEN YEARLY-UN REPORT
Pregnancy is among the leading causes of death among women in
developing countries, claiming about 1,600 lives a day, a new study
said. One in four women in developing countries dies or is disabled by
pregnancy or childbirth, according to a United Nations report published
on Tuesday. [Reuters]
WOMEN-STEALERS CAUGHT BY CHINESE POLICE - Police in south China have
smashed a syndicate that abducted more than 1,000 women for sale as
wives or prostitutes, a Hong Kong newspaper said Monday. [Associated
Press]
DPRK RAPS JAPANESE EX-MINISTER'S CLAIM OVER COMFORT WOMEN - Claims
by a former Japanese minister that so-called "comfort women" who worked
as sex slaves for the Japanese army were recruited as a "commercial
activity and were not forced" were condemned today by a leading
newspaper of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. [XINHUA]
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 23:00:25 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Hostile? (Was: Re: reintroduction)
Message-Id: <199606112113.XAA09875@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:16:00 -0400, Besogner@aol.com wrote:
would keep me in my place. Unfortunately i live in a very hostile
environment.
Hostile to what? Hostile to female supremacy or hostile to most persons
and things ;)?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 96 23:13:18 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Crown Princess
Message-Id: <199606112113.XAA09899@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 11 Jun 1996 05:59:08 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:
prepared for the throne of Sweden. Magnus, please keep us up to date
on her progess.
The school term/semester just ended here, and Victoria graduated from
what I believe is our equivalent to the American high-schools. According
to the placards of the yellow press here, she had a wild graduation party.
Knowing how the yellow press tends to exaggerate everything in their
placards, I didn't buy a copy of the papers, but I suspect that it wasn't
as wild, as they would want their potential customers to think.
Her grades have not yet been publicised. Personally I'd consider that
to be an invasion of privacy, but such considerations rarely stops the
yellow press. I believe anyone's grades are public documents, so anyone
can ask the school to make a copy available. In Sweden any document held
by an authority is public unless specifically declared secret.
Perhaps Timberwolf can add some more information?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 96 18:02:33 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: UK Fem Supremacy (was A True Princess)
Message-ID: <960611220233_100410.1764_BHG66-1@CompuServe.COM
I wrote:
Incidentally, it is also a pity that there are no Female Supremacy groups over
here
(as far as I am aware). The USA seems so advanced in this respect. Perhaps
the growing Internet community will help put this right before too long.
Jet wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean that there are no Female Supremacy groups over here
(which I'm assuming you to mean the USA). I know that on the East Coast there]
must be at least one because one of my subs was formerly married to a Female
Supremacist who he met at a group of Female Supremacists that met regularly, and
as far as I know, this group still meets. I assume if there is one, there are
many others.
My reply:
Well no, that's not what I meant. There are plenty of US Fem Supremacy groups,
see the ALT.SEX.FEMDOM FAQ for details which is very heartening. In the UK,
there's plenty of
FemDom activity, in fact we're kind of renowned for it, but no Fem Supremacy
group. So far,
we have been deprived in the UK or UQ as I prefer to think of it.
Jet also wrote:
Alas, it is too bad that the Queendom may be changing... What kind of King will
prince charles make, what with all his bad press, etc.?
My reply:
Prince Charles is gormless (is that a transatlantically understood word? If
not, just take it
that he's a dork, but at least he's not a macho dork). Let's face it, men are
just not fit for such responsibilities. Coyote is right, the best monarchs in
history have been female which should
be no surprise.
Thanks for your interest Jet
Jon
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #103
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 108
Today's Topics:
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: Happy Birthday!
Re: Re : Internet Freedom
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: A True Princess
Re: Re : Internet Freedom
Happy birthday!
Re: A True Princess
Re: Changing Attitudes
Birthday present - free virus protection software
Re: Changing Attitudes
thank you
Re: Manual
confused
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: SMC
Humour?
Re: A True Princess
http://www.domina.fr/
Re: confused
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Noble wrote:
It is excellent Cuffs and I am sure she will do an excellent job for
you...by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
I am fifty-one...aging like fine wine, celebrating life and love, and
would not be one year younger for all the tea in china..(do they really
have a lot of tea there?)
Happy Birthday, Patricia, from one broad to another. :)
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:30:48 -0400
From: Slave49442@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!
Message-ID: <960613173047_327377514@emout07.mail.aol.com
i humbly join the chorus, Mistress Patricia. Happy Birthday to You.
Have Your slaves been especially attentive today? i hope so.
slave 49442
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 96 17:45:10 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Re : Internet Freedom
Message-ID: <960613214510_100410.1764_BHG117-1@CompuServe.COM
Wrote Dennis
BAD news for the U.K as usual, 12 months behind the U.S, a
*Watchdog* committee has decided that after purging Britain
of the *dreaded* telephone sex lines, it would maintain full
employment by concentrating on the *pornography* now
available from the Internet . WHY DONT THESE PEOPLE
GET A LIFE !!!
I don't really understand this. What can they do about
it if the source of the material is another sovereign
nation? Make it illegal to receive maybe, but how
can that be enforced?
Writes I
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 96 18:18:36 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <960613221835_100410.1764_BHG117-2@CompuServe.COM
I face this type of moral dilemma regularly.
My place of work is about 65% female / 35% male
which some of you will doubtless envy. We recruit
frequently and I'm often involved in the decision.
My boss is female and she's a very potent mixture
of tough and tender.
She would like to see a 50/50 split, which see thinks
gives the optimal working environment and mix of talents.
She is therefore happy when we employ a new man.
I, on the other hand, rejoice when we take on a new woman,
not for traditionally sexist reasons, but because I'm happy
to see a talented woman given an opportunity. They may
have overcome more to reach that position and given that
women's self confidence is often subdued, I believe if I can
awaken that she may contribute more than an apparently
equivalent man.
However, and this is the crux, both my boss and I
always select the best person for the job, whoever it may
be. I don't try to push the claims of a woman, if I don't
believe she's the best candidate. Even men need to earn a
living after all.
What do others of you think? Am I doing the right thing?
Jon
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:38:00 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <960613183758_555754877@emout19.mail.aol.com
Just a comment to Jon (and others):
I lived in your England for a year way back in 1966 and have been back for
visits often since then. England is one of the most civil and wonderful
places on the face of this earth-- its people make it so great. Your love,
charity, sense of adventure, ability to survive under the worst of conditions
(WWII), and the fact that you created societies the world over (including the
USA) attest to your greatness.
Empires and financial wealth come and go. The people stay. England is rich
in heritage and its contributions to all of us throughout the world. Don't
take any bull from anyone, Jon. England is doing just fine. We in America
are the ones that will have to worry about what our next phase as an empire
will bring.
God save the Queen,
Ralph
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 01:47:15 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Re : Internet Freedom
Message-Id: <199606132345.BAA18154@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 13 Jun 96 17:45:10 EDT, Jon Woolven wrote:
nation? Make it illegal to receive maybe, but how
can that be enforced?
Didn't you know? Politician are usually excessively stupid.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 01:57:37 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Happy birthday!
Message-Id: <199606132356.BAA21235@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:23:10 -0700, Noble wrote:
It is excellent Cuffs and I am sure she will do an excellent job for
you...by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
This brat would like to wish you a happy birthday, if he may. Live
long, and prosper!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:28:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-Id: <199606140028.RAA25567@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
RicRalph wrote, regarding England:
I lived in your England for a year way back in 1966 and have been back for
visits often since then. England is one of the most civil and wonderful
places on the face of this earth-- its people make it so great. Your love,
charity, sense of adventure, ability to survive under the worst of conditions
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WWII? Heh. For a moment there, I thought you meant the food. ;- Ah,
that's not true either - they have some very fine foods, in the ale group,
the stout group, the bitters group. ;)
Empires and financial wealth come and go. The people stay. England is rich
Stone, steel, dominions pass.....
God save the Queen,
Amen to that. But.... Not so much -the- Queen, as all the personal queens
an' goddesses. Th' males of the species, human or lupine, need their
inspiration if not always their guidance. ;)
BTW - Happy Birthday, Noble Patricia. At your age, like truly fine wine or
single malt scotches, you're just coming into your prime. :)
Occasionally amiably,
The Lawless Wolf (at 831, somewhat past his prime.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall; sometimes, the bad guy wins. ;)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:28:47 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <31C0EA7E.4E0E@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
We don't need to be patronized and just given the job because we are
women. BUT..we should not .. not get the job because we are women.
This idea that women, african americans and others..are, or have
been given jobs they are not qualified for because of their gender or
race is insulting. Women and African Americans and other so-called
minorities (actually white guys are the minority in this country) work
to reach the same degree of excellence in their chosen careers as white
guys do (WORK HARDER, IN FACT) and most often are hired even though they
are Women, African-Americans, etc.
PATRICIA
"I am WOMAN. I am INVINCIBLE. I am TIRED."
Jon Woolven wrote:
I face this type of moral dilemma regularly.
My place of work is about 65% female / 35% male
which some of you will doubtless envy. We recruit
frequently and I'm often involved in the decision.
My boss is female and she's a very potent mixture
of tough and tender.
She would like to see a 50/50 split, which see thinks
gives the optimal working environment and mix of talents.
She is therefore happy when we employ a new man.
I, on the other hand, rejoice when we take on a new woman,
not for traditionally sexist reasons, but because I'm happy
to see a talented woman given an opportunity. They may
have overcome more to reach that position and given that
women's self confidence is often subdued, I believe if I can
awaken that she may contribute more than an apparently
equivalent man.
However, and this is the crux, both my boss and I
always select the best person for the job, whoever it may
be. I don't try to push the claims of a woman, if I don't
believe she's the best candidate. Even men need to earn a
living after all.
What do others of you think? Am I doing the right thing?
Jon
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:18:24 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Birthday present - free virus protection software
Message-Id: <199606140313.DAA19491@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Happy Birthday Patricia!
Dum de dum dum - dum dum, dum de dum dum - dum dum, dum de dum dum,
dum de dum dum, dum de dum dum, dum dum.
Well I can't sing so I just hummed along.
Best Wishes, David Stevenson.
The following might be of interest to any browsers in the group. But
for me the key lines are near the bottom, can also be incorporated
into Email and FTP.
To: inet-news@nstn.ca
Subject: SOFT ViruSafe WEB--Free Download
ViruSafe WEB can be freely downloaded from:
http://www.eliashim.com
ftp://ftp.eliashim.com/pub/products/vsweb20.zip
EliaShim, provider of anti-virus and security products, is proud to
announce version 2.0 of ViruSafe-WEB, the first generic anti-virus for
Web Browsers. Version 2.0 recognizes more viruses and received
certification
by NCSA.
ViruSafe WEB, is installed as an integral part of any Web Browser, such
as NetScape, Mosaic, Internet Explorer, AOL etc... Whenever Web Browser
downloads a file from the internet, ViruSafe WEB will automatically scan
this file, even before it is saved to the disk. It can scan programs,
compressed ZIP files and WORD documents. If a virus is found, ViruSafeWEB
will suggest erasing the infected file and thus get rid of the virus.
If no virus is found, user will be prompted to save it.
Currently all versions (16 and 32 bit) of the following Web Browsers
are supported:
- Netscape
- Internet Explorer (Microsoft)
- Chameleon WebSurfer (Netmanage)
- Chameleon WebSurfer (Netmanage)
- Mosaic and AirMosaic (Spry, Compuserve, etc...)
- Internet with an Accent
- America On Line WEB Browser
ViruSafe WEB can also be installed in other internet tools, such as FTP,
EMAIL etc... to scan automatically for viruses inside downloaded or
attached files.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Patricia,
Happy birthday! Like the fine wine you mentioned, you gladden
the hearts of all of us. And I seem to remember the proverb "In Vino
Veritas"---in wine there is truth.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:47:05 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: thank you
Message-ID: <31C0FCD9.142D@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thank all of you for the birthday .. wishes..made my
evening...and a good dinner..steak and carrot cake and too much to
eat...I really appreciate all of you on this list..is my favorite
one...even with the brats (who know who they are) huge grin.
Patricia
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:18:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606140418.AAA08691@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:19 AM 6/13/96 -0700, Dee-Ann wrote:
The problem, for me, would be that I wouldn't presume to write a
general training book for another woman's slave. Everyone is so
different.
Yes, everyone is unique...they have their own abilities, gifts, desires, and
goals.
However, I think what might be useful is a book on various
tasks. For example, manicures, pedicures, massage, stain removal,
general cleaning advice, "advanced" cleaning advice, accounting (for
those women who don't want to have to deal with balancing the
checkbook), temper management, time management, stress management,
(hair) braiding, hair styling, basic home repair, gardening/lawn tips,
and anything else someone who's devoting their life to making their
owner's life easier might need/want to know.
That's an interesting idea. Certainly the more communication and guidance
given to the server, the better served the owner will be. I would think
though that after some time together, the server or caretaker should be
proactive and attain the knowledge to properly serve the owner's needs and
expectations. Do you want
to be a pampered Goddess or an "Slave Overseer"? ;)
For the most part I tend to agree. Seizing on your maid analogy above, this
"fantasy vs. reality" is sometimes manifested in the male reaching for
self-gratification (just flouncing about in a satin uniform) versus the
woman's desire for synergy (how can I gain by putting him in the uniform? oh
yes, my bathrooms and kitchen will be sparkling clean).
Well, maybe. There are a lot of fellows who say they'll clean your
place if you dress them up and treat them badly, but they just want to
prance around in the nice clothes and do nothing for it.
Can you say "tessa"? *grin*. But seriously, there are a few fellows (i modestly
include myself) who obtain pleasure and satisfaction from serving and cleaning.
The knowledge that I am pleasing my Lady and making her life a little bit
more pleasant by making myself useful would bring me joy. The nice clothes
are just the "icing on the cake".
Welcome to the list, Paul. :)
Thanks very much, Dee-Ann. It's a pleasure to be here :)
Paul (maidpaula on irc)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:11:19 -0400
From: Slave49442@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: confused
Message-ID: <960614101118_328071525@emout10.mail.aol.com
To the Matriarchs,
the petition of slave 49442 humbly sheweth that it (that is what my current
Mistress calls me) is confused. i was disrespectful to my original Mistress
and She released me to another Mistress for intensive obedience training.
my original Mistress said that my servitude to my new Mistress had to be
by mutual consent but my current Mistress seems to believe that i have no
rights or limits. Also, my original Mistress told me that She could take me
back some day but my current Mistress wants me to be Her property
forever. my original Mistress is kind to me and She has told me to come
to Her for advice. i am confused about who really owns me. slave 49442
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 07:37:29 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-Id: <199606141437.HAA02968@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
cuffs wrote:
In the not to distant past, I would have most definitely hired the
man. I am not proud to say this, but it is true. This time however, I
did the opposite and hired the lady. As I said before, I am not sure
what it means if anything, but it sure does feel good.
Good for you, cuffs! :):):)
--
Laura Goodwin
" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
(William Shakespeare)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:39:25 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: SMC
Message-Id: <199606141839.LAA01439@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com
David wrote:
I gained the impression that SMC was only seeking members in the
locality of active churches. Have I got it wrong?
Members who don't live near the church or the sanctuary can still
recieve the newsletter and recieve counseling, etc. via phone, letter
and email.
--
Laura Goodwin
--------------- ---------------
---------------------- ----------------------
------------------------- --------------------------
--------------------------- ---------------------------
----------------- I I -----------------------
-------------- = O = --------------------
------------- I I -----------------
-------------- ------------------
-----------------------------------
--------------------------
------------------
------------
------
---
-
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 21:52:34 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Humour?
Message-Id: <199606142000.WAA08839@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Q: What do you call a man, who has lost 99% of his intelligence?
A: A widower.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 96 17:43:15 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: A True Princess
Message-ID: <960614214315_100410.1764_BHG69-1@CompuServe.COM
[Ralph's comment:
Just a comment to Jon (and others): I lived in your England for a year way back
in 1966 and have been back for visits often since then. England is one of the
most civil and wonderful places on the face of this earth-- its people make it
so great. Your love, charity, sense of adventure, ability to survive under the
worst of conditions (WWII), and the fact that you created societies the world
over (including the USA) attest to your greatness.
Empires and financial wealth come and go. The people stay. England is rich
in heritage and its contributions to all of us throughout the world. Don't take
any bull from anyone, Jon. England is doing just fine. ]
Thanks Ralph, I'm blushing
You're welcome back any time
Jon
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:59:40 -0700
From: lanoline
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: http://www.domina.fr/
Message-ID: <31C25F5C.2FCF@dial.eunet.ch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear Madams,
Please find herewith the URL of the Demonia magazine.
http://www.domina.fr/
Respectfully your
lanoline
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 96 18:33:40 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: confused
Message-ID: <960614223340_100410.1764_BHG69-2@CompuServe.COM
Original message:
To the Matriarchs, the petition of slave 49442 humbly sheweth that it (that is
what my current Mistress calls me) is confused. i was disrespectful to my
original Mistress and She released me to another Mistress for intensive
obedience training. my original Mistress said that my servitude to my new
Mistress had to be by mutual consent but my current Mistress seems to believe
that i have no rights or limits. Also, my original Mistress told me that She
could take me back some day but my current Mistress wants me to be Her property
forever. my original Mistress is kind to me and She has told me to come to Her
for advice. i am confused about who really owns me. slave 49442
Phew, heavy stuff.
Advice from a fellow submissive:
- Do you have any vestige of self will at all?
If so, make your own decisions whilst being honest and
respectful to both parties.
- If your will has been completely crushed
Obey the Mistress which has the greater control
of your mind.
-If you care for my advice:
Female supremacy is not about selfish, stormtroopers
trampling all before them. This is a great fantasy
(and mine are pretty mindblowing) but not such a
good reality.
Observe the behaviour of the lady contributors to this forum.
They are magnificently superior, intelligent and witty but also
civilised and considerate. Is this not a better model for the future
than a direct replacement of male brutality with a female version?
You may find that Mistress Two is just staying in role, sensing your
own extreme submissiveness. Try to address her outside of this
role for a moment and the dilemma may disappear. If not, plead for
renewed service with Mistress one, she sounds better balanced
to me.
Keep things in proportion. Enjoy yourself sexually but let it
overwhelm you. Work for a better world.
Jon
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #108
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 106
Today's Topics:
A short story to lighten the mood.
Various and Sundry Topics
Re: motherhood of GOD
Various and Sundry Topics
Re: Various and Sundry Topics
Re: Various and Sundry Topics
Re: the Motherhood of God
Re: the Motherhood of God
Re: the Motherhood of God
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 01:59:14 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A short story to lighten the mood.
Message-Id: <199606120206.CAA17725@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Fit for Anything.
by Christine Stevenson.
Nigel, was your average well-to-do businessman. Forty three,
greying slightly and a little overweight, not to say flabby. No
doubt, if he was describing himself he would have been kinder,
but then this is my story and my impressions are the ones that
count. Like most men that come to my Health Farm, he was quite
ordinary. Which makes him a good case to pick.
I have been running the farm for about five years now, and it has
never ceased to amaze me, the amount of discipline that has to be
applied to lose one pound of flabby male flesh. Of course, most
of them have to keep coming back again and again, to stay in some
semblance of shape. The odd one or two must find some discipline
elsewhere in their lives; knowing their characters, I am sure
they could not function without it.
The farm itself is in Portugal, a few miles north of Lisbon.
Although I am English, the weather there was never consistent
enough for my liking and, unlike men, was beyond my control. So,
away from the unbearable heat of the Algarve and the erratic
weather in the north of the country, my staff and I enjoy a near
perfect climate and the satisfaction of training men to look
after their bodies instead of abusing them.
Nigel arrived with the others who were attending that week,
looking sorely in need of our expert attention. Mopping his
forehead with a handkerchief, as he descended from our private
bus. It was quite obvious that he would need 'special attention.'
Nurse Sharp was there, as always, to check our new inmates off
the list and show them where their quarters were. I stood on the
verandah of the main house, a sufficient distance away, and sized
them up. I always read through their medical records beforehand,
and I always insist on a photograph. So as they took those first
tentative steps onto my territory, I already had an intimate
knowledge of each and every one of them, Nigel included.
I watched as they lined up, awaiting their next instructions, and
permitted myself a wry smile. I could hear Nurse Sharp detailing
the rules of the establishment, and it was then I noticed Nigel
was not paying sufficient attention.
The rules are quite simple. First and foremost, they are to do
exactly what they are told, without question. Regardless of
whether their instructions come from Nurse Sharp, Nurse Crisp or
myself, Dr. Kirsten Kane. Breakfast is at six, lunch at twelve
noon, dinner is at six in the evening and lights out at ten.
Their exercise sessions and other treatments (diet, massage,
sauna, etc.) are determined after they have had their initial
interview with me. All of these will be adhered to and strictly
controlled.
I watched as Nurse Sharp showed them to their rooms, and
instructed Nurse Crisp to bring Nigel for his interview first.
--------------------------------
I do like the inmates to be instilled with a sense of respect for
myself and my staff, so I insist we all dress accordingly in
uniform style. I have also found that men are far more attentive
if women are dressed in something that is appealing to the male
eye. Consequently, I and my staff all wear black seamed stockings
and severe high heeled shoes. Nurses Sharp and Crisp wear well
fitting, white cotton button through dresses and a starched white
cap.
I prefer a white cotton blouse, starched of course and a black
pencil skirt, with judiciously placed slits, which are merely to
facilitate walking and not to afford the inmates a view of my
stocking tops. Although this is unavoidable on occasion. And, it
just so happens, that one of these times was Nigel's interview.
I was relaxing behind my desk, feet up, reading through his file,
when Nurse Crisp ushered Nigel in.
"Stand here in front of my desk, so that I can get a good look at
you, Nigel."
As he shuffled towards me, his head slightly bowed and his eyes
most assuredly fixed on my stocking tops, I winked at Nurse Crisp
and she left the room.
"Stand up straight, Nigel. Poise is very important, if we are to
knock you back into shape."
But Nigel was not paying attention again; he seemed to be in a
world of his own.
"Did you hear what I said?"
Nigel jumped from his reverie, blushed and stammered something
that sounded like "Sorry."
"I have been going over your medical file and working out a
programme for you, based on what I consider you need. Take all
your clothes off and let me see which bits need most work."
Nigel, of course, wanted to know if this was absolutely
necessary, and I assured him that it was.
He started, very gingerly, to remove his clothes, his blushes
turning bright red as he became aware of the critical once over I
was giving him. When he was completely naked, I rose to my feet
and paced slowly around him, pulling at any piece of loose flesh
I found to be unsatisfactory or surplus to requirements. He
flinched uncomfortably a few times. I gave him my most reassuring
smile, but this did nothing to ease his obvious humiliation.
"You really have allowed your body to go to seed, haven't you?" I
said, as I moved back towards my desk.
I pressed the button that summoned Nurse Crisp, and Nigel's
embarrassment increased under the critical gaze of my able
assistant.
"Can I please get dressed now?" he whispered.
Ignoring him, I turned to Nurse Crisp and gave her the details of
Nigel's first exercise session - to commence immediately. She was
to take him to the exercise room, dress him a rubber slimming
suit and supervise a one hour session on the rowing machine,
after which he could have a light lunch of lemon juice, salad and
dry slimming biscuits. When I was sure that Nurse Crisp
understood the regime I had decided upon for Nigel I turned back
to see that he was standing with his hands over his genitals.
"Nurse, a gown for Nigel, we wouldn't want him to catch cold."
Nurse Crisp picked up Nigel's clothes and left the room. We
always confiscate their clothes to ensure no lapse in the dietary
regulation. Otherwise some of the patients would be sneaking out
for snacks.
I returned to my desk and checked the file of the next patient,
while we waited for Nurse Crisp to return. She was an
unconscionably long time, perhaps we were again short of freshly
laundered gowns. Nigel seemed ill at ease, subdued even,
apparently concentrating on something at his feet as I surveyed
him once again.
Nigel eagerly took the garment when Nurse Crisp eventually
returned, and quickly slipped it on, I stood and tied the ribbons
at the back as he was having some difficulty with them.
"Send in the next client on your way through, thank you Nurse."
They left, Nigel following Nurse Crisp, like an obedient little
puppy. I was adjusting an errant seam on my stocking and checking
the suspender fastening when I discovered the next overweight
executive standing, gawking, in the doorway.
"Ah..... Bernard isn't it? Come in and strip!"
--------------------------------
After a not altogether restful siesta, with my personal masseur
Raymond, I applied my mind to Nigel's itinerary for the
afternoon. According to Nurse Crisp, Nigel had moaned and begged
constantly throughout his stint on the rowing machine; at one
point actually grovelling on the floor at her feet, begging for
leniency. I decided to personally supervise him for the
afternoon.
I had him brought back to the exercise room, and was gratified to
see him wearing his white overall. As I am sure you are aware,
hospital gowns leave no room for modesty, which does help enhance
the authority of my staff.
Nigel had a distinctly worried look on his face, and I can only
assume it had something to do with the birch twigs I had in my
hand. I decided to put his mind at rest, and explained that they
were for the sauna - later! I then informed him that his first
task would be one hundred press-ups, to be performed at my feet
so that I could better supervise. I placed his head between my
legs, where I felt sure he would be able to hear me count.
I was very soon aware of similar problems to those Nurse Crisp
had experienced with Nigel in the morning session. He had done
exactly ten press-ups, and even these were not executed properly,
when he started to beg me to be lenient with him. Due to the fact
that my feet were so close to his mouth, one can only assume that
it was for this reason that he hit upon the idea of kissing them
to lend more weight to his pleas.
It was at this point, however, that I became aware of his obvious
sexual arousal. It was poking indecently from beneath the gown as
he squirmed on the floor. Such an indulgence is bad for
discipline and therefore not permitted to the inmates in my
establishment. It was also obvious to me that he must have been
sneaking the odd glance up my skirt, and that the pretence of
trying to do his press-ups was nothing more than an excuse to rub
his body against the floor for some kind of gratification.
There are many cures for this particular type of problem, but I
tend to favour a short sharp shock at the first offence. I leaned
over him and grabbing a sizeable hank of his hair, marched him
smartly to the shower room, placed him in a cubicle and turned
the cold water full on. One of the many good things about my
establishment, is that we are blessed with extremely good water
pressure. Needless to say, after several sharp intakes of breath,
Nigel's enthusiasm subsided. I told him to dry himself off, hang
his gown up to dry and report back to me in the exercise room.
Unfortunately he had to do so naked, for some inexplicable
reason, we are always running short of cotton gowns!
When he returned he found me sitting on the vaulting horse,
leaning on one of the hand grips, legs crossed. He started to
walk towards me, but I told him to crawl, with his body flat on
the floor. We all know how fit soldiers are and I suggested it
would be a good starting exercise, especially as the press-ups
had proved too much for him. He obeyed as best he could, but his
flesh tended to act as a suction pad on the floor, and progress
was quite slow. I was moved to a small round of applause upon
completion of this task. I do find encouragement an essential
part of my treatment.
"Well Nigel, I do hope we won't have any repeats of your furtive
behaviour," I said as I recrossed my legs. He seemed to twitch
visibly as nylon rubbed against nylon. "You will commence running
on the spot, until I tell you to stop. Begin."
The whole of his body wobbled and bobbed as he attempted, what
could best be described as a very slow trot, while his hands
attempted to cover himself and maintain some decency.
"Come on Nigel. You can do better than that! Knees up - one, two,
one two........ you came to me just in time - in my professional
opinion, you are just about salvageable."
My few words of encouragement lifted his spirits momentarily, but
he soon fell back into his slow trot again, when they were over.
Nevertheless, he managed to keep it up for twenty minutes, and I
felt things were improving enough for him to try a little weight
training.
I asked Nurse Sharp to join us for this procedure, and having
told Nigel to lie flat on the floor on his back, Nurse Sharp took
up her position. This is a weight lifting exercise of my own
devising, which briefly consists of Nurse Sharp sitting astride
the patient's head and shoulders and the patient trying to get up
without using their hands and feet. It is very good for toning up
the stomach and neck muscles, and I happen to know it is one of
Nurse Sharp's favourite exercises.
I watched Nigel struggle for ten minutes and then left. Nurse
Sharp is a very good judge of just how much of this particular
exercise a patient needs, so I left him in her capable hands, so
to speak.
I was feeling in need of a good all over massage, of the type
Raymond is so good at. The strains of personally supervising an
exercise session are best relieved by relaxing and allowing
Raymond to be imaginative. Besides, I was determined to be
refreshed in time for Nigel's sauna.
After dinner Nurse Sharp reported that Nigel was in place in the
sauna. Once again he had shown considerable reluctance to do as
he was told, and she had to resort to tying him in place with the
leather straps provided for our more recalcitrant patients.
She also reported a most unfortunate incident that had occurred
during Nigel's exercise period. Apparently, Nurse Sharp had
consumed a rather large amount of water during lunch (it had been
a very hot day) and Nigel's vigorous movements beneath her had
resulted in him being subjected to yet another shower. He had
also exhibited signs of sexual arousal again, and it was clear to
me that a stern reprimand was in order. He was obviously paying
more attention to his own pleasures than to the task at hand.
I clutched the birch twigs firmly in my hand as I marched towards
the sauna. Poor Nigel was steaming away nicely, but alas his
nakedness could not hide how perky he was actually feeling. He
gave a slight groan when he saw me in the doorway.
"I hear nothing but bad reports of your behaviour, and I have
first hand knowledge of how uncooperative you are being. I hope
this little session will prove beneficial to both of us, and that
the rest of your stay will not be marred by further ugly
incidents."
The birch twigs thrashed and teased, stimulating his flesh from
every conceivable angle. Occasionally the odd little yelp would
escape from his mouth, together with more pleas for mercy. When I
considered his treatment to be over, and not before, he was
untied and given another cold shower. I also had him locked in
his room that night as a further punishment. Hopefully tomorrow
he will no be so disruptive, so that his treatment can be truly
effective.
I sat relaxing on the verandah, with Raymond as a footrest. I do
like to put my feet up at the end of a hard day. Tomorrow is our
cross country run. We have a very large private field, around
which the patients are expected to run for two hours. Raymond
normally arranges for Nurse Sharp, Nurse Crisp and myself to have
a picnic in the middle of the field, and he brings cold drinks
down from the house when we get thirsty. One day gone and the
rest to look forward to. I am truly fortunate to love my work.
--------------------------------
When Nigel and the others left at the end of the week, he was a
changed person. He kissed my hand and thanked me for showing him
the error of his ways and promised to look after his body
properly in future. But I knew he had fundamentally changed his
attitude when I read the postcard he sent to his colleagues at
work. (I read all the mail before posting.) It read, "Wonderful
place, lovely weather - but can't wait to get back to work - I
feel fit for anything now!"
Highly original - but then it was from Nigel. Who knows, maybe I
shall have the pleasure of training some of his friends next
year. I do hope so.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 01:05:49 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Various and Sundry Topics
Message-ID: <31BE7A5D.6CD6@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Police: Sweden is small and homogeneous, US is vast and totally diverse
in race and culture. It's apples to oranges. We have a very difficult
challenge in this politically correct society to meld together.
Sabbath always has been and ever will be Saturday. Friday sundown
to
Saturday sundown. Jews, Muslims, and Seventh-day Adventists, Baptists,
and Pentecostals keep it to this day. Check your calendar, Genesis
2:1-3,
and Luke 23 end and 24.
My theory on "God" as a Woman: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The
Spirit in the Greek is described as female in the majority of references
in the new testament. In the Hebrew, in creation the Spirit is said to
move upon the waters. The same word is used to describe giving
birth. From water came the birth of the world, just as we are born of
water from our mothers womb. The sea and birth water have the same
properties. Jesus said we must be born of water and the spirit.
Baptism, rebirth through water, the womb of the church. The Holy Spirit
is unmistakably the female
representation in the Godhead. Male and female he created them in Gods
image. In their patriarchal minds God revealed himself to them in the
only way they could relate to, as a male figure. But in this enlightened
age when we are not so restricted by stereotypes, we can see God in Her
full
revelation as female as well as male. The Holy Spirit is the creator God
who like the wind moves silently but surely upon the earth. Woman seems
to be in the background quietly controlling and making things happen,
holding things together, but in reality she is the true power. Male and
female both reflecting the true glory of God's nature, in perfect harmony
and bliss. She is just as important, powerful and worthy of worship as
He. Equal in every way, yet different. In God, true equality is
achieved.
On earth, you ladies have proven yourselves more noble than we in many
ways. Your superiority is evident in all the social graces, and in
matters of the heart where you have that sixth sense that intuitively
hears the language of the soul. The gentler virtues of God, rather than
the sterner often reflected in the male. Another excellent reason to
worship God!
Media: 95% democrat, 3% republican, bias? Oh yeah! Will they admit
it? Oh no! Are they major Arrogant? Oh yeah! I tuned out of network
news 2 years ago. No more Howard K. Smiths' or Walter Cronkites
left. It's all slanted, and they will never admit it. So they won't
fool me, ever again.
I check everything and I don't trust them at all. Never will!
This is a great newsletter. You folks are very interesting and
informative. I love it! Groveling subs, have a little self respect,
stop demeaning yourself, it's embarrassing! Oh well, it takes all kinds
to make the world go round. I share your devotion, but don't understand
your
self loathing. Just a thought from a spirit on the wind.
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:45:12 -0500
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: motherhood of GOD
Message-Id: <199606121245.HAA11068@wpg-01.escape.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Julian of Norwich spoke of God in terms which we today would
probably call androgynous:
"As truly as God is our Father, so truly is God our Mother"
"... thus is Jesus our true Mother in nature, from our first
creation, and He is our true Mother in grace by his taking our created human
nature."
from _A Lesson of Love: The Revelations of Julian of Norwich_
My theory on "God" as a Woman: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The
Spirit in the Greek is described as female in the majority of references
in the new testament. In the Hebrew, in creation the Spirit is said to
move upon the waters. The same word is used to describe giving
birth. From water came the birth of the world, just as we are born of
water from our mothers womb. The sea and birth water have the same
properties. Jesus said we must be born of water and the spirit.
Baptism, rebirth through water, the womb of the church. The Holy Spirit
is unmistakably the female
representation in the Godhead. Male and female he created them in Gods
image. In their patriarchal minds God revealed himself to them in the
only way they could relate to, as a male figure. But in this enlightened
age when we are not so restricted by stereotypes, we can see God in Her
full
revelation as female as well as male. The Holy Spirit is the creator God
who like the wind moves silently but surely upon the earth. Woman seems
to be in the background quietly controlling and making things happen,
holding things together, but in reality she is the true power. Male and
female both reflecting the true glory of God's nature, in perfect harmony
and bliss. She is just as important, powerful and worthy of worship as
He. Equal in every way, yet different. In God, true equality is
achieved.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:53:04 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Various and Sundry Topics
Message-ID:
When I was very young, my parents informed me that my godmother, Marie,
would be in charge of my religious education. We sat on the steps
outside the house, and with a popsicle stick she drew a triangle in the
earth. Pointing to the top point of the triangle, she said "This is the
Father," then she pointed to the left point and said "...this is the
son," and to the right point "...and this is the Holy Ghost." I asked
her "How did the mommy die?" Maried didn't understand. "Mommy? What
Mommy?" I told her if there were a Father, and a Son, there must be a
girl too, to be the Mommy. She SNORTED at me and said "No. No. There
IS no Mommy! There is no GIRL!" And that was the end of Catholocism
for me, right then and there. A system that was so obviously defunct
and blind to the realities of the world and life as I knew it as a 6
year old, could not possibly be TRUE!
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:40:03 -0700
From: Brett J Wakefield
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry Topics
Message-ID: <31BEE4D3.7140@slip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear Friends
CNN just announced the three judge panel reviewing the Communications
Decency Act has ruled it unconstitutional and not to be enforced.
Govt. will probably appeal to Supreme Court, but for now: Victory!
Respectfully submitted,
Brett
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:34:18 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry Topics
Message-ID:
FEDear Friends
FECNN just announced the three judge panel reviewing the Communications
FEDecency Act has ruled it unconstitutional and not to be enforced.
FEGovt. will probably appeal to Supreme Court, but for now: Victory!
FERespectfully submitted,
FEBrett
Hooray for our side!
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: the Motherhood of God
Message-Id: <199606122229.PAA12356@netcom16.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1729
David Land provided this reference:
from _A Lesson of Love: The Revelations of Julian of Norwich_
I will add it to this short list, that I keep and occasionally
try to update:
_She Who Is_, (_The Mystery of God in Feminist
Theological Discourse_), Elizabeth A. Johnson, C.S.J., pub. Crossroad,
New York. ISBN 0-8245-1376-2
_Out of the Garden_ (_Women Writers on the Bible_), Ed. Christina Bachman
and Celina Spiegel, pub. Fawcett Columbine, New York.
_Holy Daring_ (_an outrageous gift to modern spirituality from St. Teresa,
the grand Wild Woman of Avila_), by Tessa Bielecki (a Carmelite Mother
Superior), pub. Element, Rockport, Massachussetts / Brisbane, Queensland.
(Pointers to what is almost Western Tantra.)
_Jesus as Mother_ by Caroline Walker Bynum, published by the University
of California Press, Berkeley, ISBN 0-520-05222-6.
_Hildegard of Bingen's Book of Divine Works_ (with Letters and Songs)
Ed. by Matthew Fox, pub. Bear & Compnay, Santa Fe. ISBN 0-939-680-351
_Mary Magdalen_ (_Myth and Metaphor_), by Susan Haskins, Harcourt Brace &
Company, New York. ISBN 0-15-157765
There's also an article from the April 8 [Canadian news weekly] Maclean's:
_Is God a Woman?_
The text is in the form of a fairly long e-mail letter first posted here
around April 20.
Anything by Mary Daly or Matthew Fox is worthwhile, as is any title by
or about Dame Julian of Norwich, Hildegard of Bingen or St Theresa of Avila.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:35:31 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: the Motherhood of God
Message-ID: <31BF7063.115F@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I have a big favor to ask. I just made a new front page for my web
pages...could some one go look at it and tell me if it looks ok and if
it takes a really long time to load....its not really linked to anything
yet..so boxes on right go nowhere..but I am working on it...thanks
http://www.mainartery.com
and if females give birth everywhere in nature..why is it that they
think a male "god" gave birth to the universe....it is really stretching
it.....
patricia
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: the Motherhood of God
Message-Id: <199606122245.SAA02656@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:35 PM 6/12/96 -0700, you wrote:
I have a big favor to ask. I just made a new front page for my web
pages...could some one go look at it and tell me if it looks ok and if
it takes a really long time to load....
patricia- It looks fine. It took about 1 minute for me to load your front
page (using Netscape 2.0 with a 19.2K modem). regards, paul
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #106
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 107
Today's Topics:
Fwd: LAWSUIT VICTORY!
Re: the Motherhood of God
slave trade
Patricias' Web Page/ Virus'
Re: Female Person of the Godhead
Trading URLs
Re: Manual
Re: Female Person of the Godhead
Re: subscribe
Changing Attitudes
the whole enchilada
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: Changing Attitudes
Happy Birthday!
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re: Changing Attitudes
Re : Internet Freedom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 01:54:00 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Fwd: LAWSUIT VICTORY!
Message-Id: <199606122352.BAA27899@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
From cda-bulletin-owner@hardly.hotwired.com Wed Jun 12 18:38:16 1996
Received: from mn6.swip.net (mn6.swip.net [192.71.180.34])
by mailbox.swip.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP
id SAA01496;
Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:38:15 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: from hardly.hotwired.com (hardly.hotwired.com [204.62.132.221])
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:22:17 -0700
To: telstar@wired.com
From: telstar@wired.com (--Todd Lappin--)
Subject: LAWSUIT VICTORY!
Cc: cda-bulletin@wired.com, everyone.hotwired@hotwired.com,
everyone.wired@wired.com
Sender: owner-cda-bulletin-list@hotwired.com
CDA DISASTER NETWORK
June 12. 1996
Good Morning!
It is my great pleasure to bring you initial news of our...
SMASHING VICTORY IN THE CDA CASE!
"As the most participatory form of mass speech yet
developed, the Internet deserves the highest protection
from government intrusion."
"Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the
strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and
cacophony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment
protects."
- Excerpts from the decision
At 9:00am on Wednesday June 12, the Federal Court in Philadelphia,
PA granted a preliminary injunction against the Communications
Decency Act (CDA). It was a 3-0 decision.
More details to follow soon, but in the meantime, break out the fireworks
and pop the champagne...
It's a fine day for free speech!
--Todd Lappin--
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
This transmission was brought to you by....
THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
The CDA Disaster Network is a moderated distribution list providing
up-to-the-minute bulletins and background on efforts to overturn the
Communications Decency Act. To subscribe, send email to
WARNING: This is not a test! WARNING: This is not a drill!
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:08:33 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: the Motherhood of God
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It took me a little over a minute to download. It looked great and I hope
you let me know when it's up and running.
Peter
I have a big favor to ask. I just made a new front page for my web
pages...could some one go look at it and tell me if it looks ok and if
it takes a really long time to load....its not really linked to anything
yet..so boxes on right go nowhere..but I am working on it...thanks
http://www.mainartery.com
and if females give birth everywhere in nature..why is it that they
think a male "god" gave birth to the universe....it is really stretching
it.....
patricia
--
MZ=90
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:46:50 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: slave trade
Message-Id: <199606130142.BAA27026@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I thought this might be of interest,
Regards, David Stevenson.
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Article: soc.culture.romanian.35134
APn 06/11 1013 Slave Trade-Women
Copyright, 1996. The Associated Press.
By SUSAN LADIKA
Associated Press Writer
VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Organized crime traffickers are adding women to the
list of goods they can smuggle across borders, causing a rise in the global
"slave trade."
As a result, the European Union announced measures today at the conclusion of
a two-day conference to combat the illegal trafficking of women, including a
witness-protection program for those who testify against their exploiters.
Anita Gradin, the EU commissoner who organized the Vienna gathering, said she
will present a more detailed plan of action to both the EU's council of
ministers and to the European parliament.
Ireland will keep the issue on the political agenda after it assumes the EU's
rotating presidency on July 1, said John Byrne, an Irish Justice Department
official specializing in immigration issues.
Historically, women slaves have come from Asia, Africa and Latin America. But
as economic and social support systems crumbled with the end of Communist
regimes, women from central and eastern Europe have headed west, experts at the
conference said Monday.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
For help information, send email SIFT Netnews Server
with word 'help' in message body netnews@sift.stanford.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:56:05 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Patricias' Web Page/ Virus'
Message-ID: <31BFBB85.76F5@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Looks great and only took a minuite to download. Very nice.
ps. I recently found an nyb virus in my boot files, and bought Norton
Antivirus, followed the instructions, nuked the virus and I'm living
happily ever after. Also Netscape sells a Power Pack with a virus scanner
for the internet, a real audio player, spellcheck, superbookmarks and
lots of neat internet stuff, for twenty bucks if you get their
subscription. I found it well worth it. I don't sell this stuff, just a
happy user, so if you have virus anxiety there is an affordable cure!
SW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:53:31 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Female Person of the Godhead
Message-ID: <31BFC8FB.1BB9@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia always gets right to the heart of the matter. When the earth
was
void and without form, water and vapor God moved upon the waters and gave
birth to the universe. John 1 says Jesus created the world. Three are
one. As usual, the female is the most humble, willing to allow the
others to be prominent. We never hear about HER. He created woman in
the image of God to. Both genders reflect Gods' glory and it takes both
to adequately represent God. We are born in water, water breaks then we
come forth owing our very life to the water bearer. God brought the
earth forth from water through the female person of the Godhead. When
baptized you are reborn through the water unto the newness of life. The
Holy Spirit makes you born again and you are now compassionate, kind, and
more
like God. The famous quote chauvinists love "wives submit to your
husbands" leaves out the next verse "submit ye one to another." They
never quote that verse. This society, and often using, or more correctly
misusing the bible to justify its chauvinism, keeps women in their place
in order to control them in business as well as marriage. The bible
properly understood does not reveal a chauvinistic God, rather a loving
one who is both male and female and a very balanced Person at that!
Thats one of the reasons I worship my wife, because she reflects the God
who made her so powerful and beautiful! How could I not adore her!
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:58:53 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Trading URLs
Message-ID: <31BFAE1D.2868@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have a big favor to ask. I just made a new front page for my web
pages...could some one go look at it and tell me if it looks ok and if
it takes a really long time to load....its not really linked to anything
yet..so boxes on right go nowhere..but I am working on it...thanks
http://www.mainartery.com
and if females give birth everywhere in nature..why is it that they
think a male "god" gave birth to the universe....it is really stretching
it.....
Patricia--
I enjoyed your page very much and loved the coloring that you used. The
magenta really stands out and should high light any pictures you will use.
My URL is in progress as well.
ares.csd.net/~IlUildi/jetdom
When you do the IlUildi, they are all letters...
Let me know what you think...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606130819.BAA00272@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2719
pgm@servtech.com wrote:
Tiresius- I couldn't agree more. I would never be so presumptuous as to
believe that I would know how to serve and please a woman better than the
woman herself. She is the only one who fully and truly knows what she
desires and seeks (if she's in touch with her supremacy, but that's
another topic). She is the only one who knows what "trimming, pruning, and
watering" is necessary to produce a succulent fruit to satisfy her unique
appetite. Certainly the man should assist and nurture the woman in her
explorations, and give feedback where appropriate, but write her "training
book" himself, I don't think so.
The problem, for me, would be that I wouldn't presume to write a
general training book for another woman's slave. Everyone is so
different. However, I think what might be useful is a book on various
tasks. For example, manicures, pedicures, massage, stain removal,
general cleaning advice, "advanced" cleaning advice, accounting (for
those women who don't want to have to deal with balancing the
checkbook), temper management, time management, stress management,
(hair) braiding, hair styling, basic home repair, gardening/lawn tips,
and anything else someone who's devoting their life to making their
owner's life easier might need/want to know. Certainly, this would
have to be a series of books if it's done in depth, but the woman
could pick and choose what topics she thought her slave needed to know
immediately, in the near future, in the moderate future, etc. Talk
about never having an excuse to be idle, there would always be
something to learn. And, since all of these topics couldn't be given
justice in depth, the particularly important areas could involve
sending the slave to classes, or independant study.
Think I've ever given thought to this before? :)
For the most part I tend to agree. Seizing on your maid analogy above, this
"fantasy vs. reality" is sometimes manifested in the male reaching for
self-gratification (just flouncing about in a satin uniform) versus the
woman's desire for synergy (how can I gain by putting him in the uniform? oh
yes, my bathrooms and kitchen will be sparkling clean).
Well, maybe. There are a lot of fellows who say they'll clean your
place if you dress them up and treat them badly, but they just want to
prance around in the nice clothes and do nothing for it.
Welcome to the list, Paul. :)
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:16:40 -0500
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Female Person of the Godhead
Message-Id: <199606131616.LAA24321@wpg-01.escape.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The famous quote chauvinists love "wives submit to your
husbands" leaves out the next verse "submit ye one to another."
Actually in the Letter of Paul to the Ephesians, 5:21-33, the first
line is be subject to one another. Then to wives, Paul said "be subject to
your husbands." Then to husbands, "love your wives, as Christ loved the
church and gave himself up for her"
A bit later, 6:5 to slaves, Paul said "be obedient to those who are
your earthly masters, with fear and trembling".
Over the centuries, Christians have read into these exhortations
what suited them to see. A submissive male or female, or a dominant male or
female, each might find justification. Paul himself was probably in chains
when he wrote the letter, btw.
They
never quote that verse. This society, and often using, or more correctly
misusing the bible to justify its chauvinism, keeps women in their place
in order to control them in business as well as marriage.
I believe this is true of the Radical Religious Right, but I haven't
seen it in the more liberal communities of faith. Typical of the former is
Tim LaHaye, who authored _How to Be Happy Though Married_. On p. 106 he
exclaims "The Christian woman must be in subjection to her husband! Whether
she likes it or not (you see, not even consensual), subjection is a command
of God and her refusal to comply with this command is an act of
disobedience..." The application of this belief is developed in Ch 2
"Forget Yourself", with instructions to
let the husband handle the finances
leave the paid workforce to stay home and have children
be frugal with spending money
give 10%, save 10%, and spend the rest with thanksgiving
be respectful of husband's parents
spend 30 minutes each day before husband comes home from
work making your appearance attractive
never criticize your husband's behaviour with anyone but him
I have a sense that LaHaye is basically interested in power. The
fact that he subsequently got involved politically with the Moral Majority
etc only confirms this for me.
The bible
properly understood does not reveal a chauvinistic God, rather a loving
one who is both male and female and a very balanced Person at that!
Thats one of the reasons I worship my wife, because she reflects the God
who made her so powerful and beautiful! How could I not adore her!
Or, as some submissive husbands might express it: the supreme female
to whom I am devoted is an incarnation of the divine feminine principle in
creation.
DL
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:00:33 -0400
From: Slave49442@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: subscribe
Message-ID: <960613140032_327178039@emout08.mail.aol.com
i greet the Mistresses and slaves of femsupremacy list. i desire to improve
my performance as a slaveboy and as a devotee of the Goddess.
Slave 49442
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:12:12 -0400
From: cuffs@shore.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Changing Attitudes
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960613201212.006730b0@shell1.shore.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I thought I would share this with the group, although I am not sure what it
means to my personal growth within the realm of female supremacy. In my
company I have been looking to hire a new Chief Financial Officer. After
going though many applicants, the search came down to two equally qualified
candidates. Try as I might, I just could not find anything that would give
one the slightest advantage over the other. To make a long story short, one
was a woman the other of course a man. In the not to distant past, I would
have most definitely hired the man. I am not proud to say this, but it is
true. This time however, I did the opposite and hired the lady. As I said
before, I am not sure what it means if anything, but it sure does feel good.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:15:48 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: the whole enchilada
Message-ID: <31C0A123.2D3A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The whole decision that was reached yesterday on the telecommunications
act of 1996 can be read at:
http://www.nptn.org/cyber.serv/solon/lic/cda.ruling.html
it is about two minutes downloading and wait for it to be totally done
and then you can jump to the end part which has the decision in a
nutshell.
Patricia
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:23:10 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <31C0A2DE.520C@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
It is excellent Cuffs and I am sure she will do an excellent job for
you...by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
I am fifty-one...aging like fine wine, celebrating life and love, and
would not be one year younger for all the tea in china..(do they really
have a lot of tea there?)
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
I thought I would share this with the group, although I am not sure what it
means to my personal growth within the realm of female supremacy. In my
company I have been looking to hire a new Chief Financial Officer. After
going though many applicants, the search came down to two equally qualified
candidates. Try as I might, I just could not find anything that would give
one the slightest advantage over the other. To make a long story short, one
was a woman the other of course a man. In the not to distant past, I would
have most definitely hired the man. I am not proud to say this, but it is
true. This time however, I did the opposite and hired the lady. As I said
before, I am not sure what it means if anything, but it sure does feel good.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-Id: <199606132029.NAA03743@netcom22.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 837
cuffs wrote:
This time however, I did the opposite and hired the lady. As I said
before, I am not sure what it means if anything, but it sure does feel good.
It means everything, cuffs, everything.
This is how the world will change, one small victory at a time.
You =should= feel good: you done good. :]
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:24:07 -0400
From: willow
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <31C078E7.22F4CB2@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Noble wrote:
by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
Happy Birthy Day to yooooooooooooou :)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Happy Birthday!
Message-Id: <199606132042.NAA05154@netcom22.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1236
Patricia announced:
...by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
I am fifty-one...aging like fine wine, celebrating life and love, and
would not be one year younger for all the tea in china..
Happy Birthday to You,
Happy Birthday to You,
Happy Birthday Mistress Patricia Hadley No-ble,
Happy Birthday toooooo Youuuu~~~~~~~~!
(The WW who named me didn't call me coyote sings for nuthin'!)
51- piece o' (birthday) cake (in the opinion of one who has
already done that and a few more). One notes how joyfully you
seem to go about all this, and life in general. Please keep
doing that- it can be contagious! ;D
Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:42:39 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-ID: <31C0A76F.30D0@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
this broad is smiling broadly...thanks
Patricia
willow wrote:
Noble wrote:
by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
Happy Birthy Day to yooooooooooooou :)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--
MZê
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:33:30 -0400
From: cuffs@shore.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960613203330.006827c8@shell1.shore.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happy Birthday to You Happy Birthday to You Happy Birthday dear Goddess
Happy Birthday to You. Have a wonderful day Ma'am. You have my very best
wishes and devotion..
At 04:23 PM 6/13/96 -0700, you wrote:
It is excellent Cuffs and I am sure she will do an excellent job for=20
you...by-the-way...it is my birthday today...anyone singing happy=20
birthday will be looked upon with a "broad" (pun intended) smile.
Patricia
I am fifty-one...aging like fine wine, celebrating life and love, and=20
would not be one year younger for all the tea in china..(do they really=20
have a lot of tea there?)
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
=20
I thought I would share this with the group, although I am not sure what=
it
means to my personal growth within the realm of female supremacy. In my
company I have been looking to hire a new Chief Financial Officer. After
going though many applicants, the search came down to two equally=
qualified
candidates. Try as I might, I just could not find anything that would=
give
one the slightest advantage over the other. To make a long story short,=
one
was a woman the other of course a man. In the not to distant past, I=
would
have most definitely hired the man. I am not proud to say this, but it is
true. This time however, I did the opposite and hired the lady. As I said
before, I am not sure what it means if anything, but it sure does feel=
good.
=20
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
--=20
MZ=90
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
BAD news for the U.K as usual, 12 months behind the U.S, a *Watchdog*
committee has decided that after purging Britain of the *dreaded* telephone sex
lines, it would maintain full employment by concentrating on the *pornography*
now available from the Internet . WHY DONT THESE PEOPLE GET A LIFE !!!
Dennis (The Older Male)
It's no big revelation that more women than ever are working at a paid
job. More than half (54%) of B.C.'s adult women do so. While growing
numbers of those who work say they're self-employed (598,000 in 1994,
up from 197,000 in 1976), the majority say they work for someone
else. So, unlike previous generations, where women worked mostly at
home and without a specific salary, today's working woman typically
works outside the home. But how strange it is that while women
typically earn less than men--some data even put the figure at 58%
less-they frequently pay more than men for the same products and
services.
Take cars--for some a luxury, but for most a necessity. It seems
neither the Automobile Dealers' Association of Greater Vancouver nor
the Automotive Retailers Association have any vehicle purchase
statistics for B.C., but according to "Marketing News" magazine, women
are the principal buyers of 45% of all cars and trucks sold in the
U.S. Several smart U.S.-based vehicle manufacturers are finally
starting to incorporate women's needs, culled from all-female advisory
committees, in their designs and marketing strategies. Yet when a
woman goes to purchase a new vehicle, she is likely to pay more for
the same vehicle than a man. The reason? Women are less likely than
men to negotiate on car prices and some salespeople naturally take
advantage of that. (Incidentally, IBM has noted that what women want
from computers is similar to what they want in cars: reliability,
ease of use, and "reasonable pricing." In that order.)
Society today puts women under more pressure than ever to be
fashionably groomed and dressed. It's not surprising then that those
who provide the services and products to fulfill that need are cashing
in. And women are paying more than men for a wide range of goods and
services.
When I called one of the better known salons in Vancouver to inquire
about prices of haircuts, I was told women pay between $35 and $50,
while men pay $30 to $40. When asked why women pay more, the
receptionist confirmed what I suspected--"That's just the way it is in
most salons." But surely the same products are used. And the same
skills are required. And through observation, men's haircuts today
take just as long as women's.
Dry-cleaning prices are also gender-specific, giving men a big price
advantage. A man's shirt costs in the region of $1.90 to be
laundered; a woman's plain cotton shirt runs about $3.50. It seems
women's prices are based on assumptions that women's wear is more
fancy and has "more trim." Whatever that means. Well, for us
business types, it ain't necessarily so.
Retailers get in on the discrimination act as well. When women buy a
new outfit, alterations are rarely, if ever, included in the price.
But for men all kinds of alterations will be made, and free of charge.
The growing health and beauty industry, too, is notorious for
differential pricing on men's and women's products. At a major
Vancouver department store, Calvin Klein Eternity cologne for men
retails at $61 for a 100-ml. spray, while the same brand and quantity
for women is $76. Clinique's 7 Day Facial Scrub for women with normal
skin is available in a 60-ml. tube for $14.50, or a 120-ml. jar for
$23. Meanwhile, a comparable men's face scrub (one formulation only)
costs $18 for 100 ml. No explanation was offered for the price
difference. The sales clerk did say, however, that the men's scrub
contained menthol, a stronger ingredient necessary for cleansing the
"more" layers in a man's skin. Does this mean, then, that since
women's skin is generally advertised as "delicate," their products
require more expensive ingredients, thereby justifying higher prices?
Only the cosmetics companies know for sure, but I'm skeptical.
So, there are more women than ever in the workforce. They earn less
than men. They buy big ticket items and spend money on a wider range
of personal services than men. Yet they usually pay more. Seems
wrong from where I sit. At least I found one small consolation: men
pay more for life insurance.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607250503.WAA00676@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 727
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
then give un the internet address.Must be REAL hard.CLUE-usually starts
with http://
if you can't source your quotes then don't bother putting them on this
forum and if you do, then expect ridicule.
I'm getting tired of this. You're now on the banlist, pal. If you
want to get back onto the list, you'll have to e-mail me and convince
me you can act like a rational person.
Dee-Ann
List Administrator
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:10:08 +1000
From: b3016957@student.anu.edu.au
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable Information
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tony-well done and very well referenced!I wonder what some creative writers
will say to your real facts?
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:31:45 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable Information
Message-Id: <199607250531.WAA19818@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
Tony-well done and very well referenced!I wonder what some creative
writers
will say to your real facts?
Thank you Matt and thanks for being a voice of reason in this mailing
list!!!
Tony
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:15:05 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: thughes@crosslink.net
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry Posts
Message-Id: <199607250915.CAA05774@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:03 PM 7/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
So much to comment on! I'll be very brief and concise:
5. Ray Jones-Good post. Patricia will be thinking about that one. You
said it as well as anyone could.
Thanks for the kudos, though I don't deserve them. I didn't post for all of
the "fame and wealth" it will bring me. (grin) I just thought the "fire
under the pot" we men were placed in was getting a little "hot" and needed
the temperature turned down a bit. (grin)
I'm sure I'll get around to "sticking my foot in my mouth", sooner or later.
I can't disagree with the basic premise of fem-superiority, but I can't
agree 100% either. I do agree that many of the world's ills might be
ameliorated if women were in charge. OTOH, someone pointed out that women
are becoming more like men so where do we go from here? If women are
becoming more like men, are men becoming more like women? If so, then it
follows that if the premise of the list is correct, men will then become
superior to women and the whole thing starts all over again. Just "food for
thought"! (grin)
I feel there are not just physical differences between the sexes, but
spiritual, ethical, moral and others as well. Each gender has its good and
bad points. For millions of years the different genders have managed to
coexist and even compliment one another. Perhaps we should concentrate on
the good points rather than on the bad ones.
Believe me Robert, a woman can be in the underneath position and still
control a man. MY wife is in total control at all times, and she
controls EVERYTHING. The Creator of our species obviously intended for
That is true, but only if the woman isn't afraid to take control and the man
isn't afraid to let her. Obvioiusly, the two of you are not and your sex
life is the better for it.
submissive. As a practical matter it makes sense for the man to spend a
long time pleasuring her, saving his powerful offering of love until the
end. Men don't need training as much as they need an unselfish heart.
If your not just concerned with your own pleasure, you'll give to your
partner. Debora can control my every move from the bottom, even to the
Amen! My greatest pleasure is not my own, but that of my partner. To give
her pleasure, gives me pleasure. 'Twere it not that way, why would I need a
partner? (grin)
extent of when to accept that offering of love. It's a matter of power.
I have a huge amount of it. She just has more that's all! And I love
it! In the Karma Sutra, they have something called the mares trick. The
stallion is often rough and even brutal when chasing her down, but once
he has her, she can lock him in so he is powerless to move. He can't get
free unless SHE lets him. My wife has known that one for years! Lol
That's one trick I can live with!
Yes, women have power. Many women have known it for centuries. They just
exercised it more subtle ways than todays women.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 03:10:50 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Article: There Oughta Be a Law
Message-Id: <199607251010.DAA06809@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:51 PM 7/24/96 -0700, you wrote:
"There Oughta Be a Law--Why does it cost more to be a woman?" by
Brenda Farrell, printed in the July 1996 issue of "BC Business."
committees, in their designs and marketing strategies. Yet when a
woman goes to purchase a new vehicle, she is likely to pay more for
the same vehicle than a man. The reason? Women are less likely than
men to negotiate on car prices and some salespeople naturally take
advantage of that. (Incidentally, IBM has noted that what women want
I don't disagree you, but I disagree that it is done BECAUSE they are women.
Salepeople will take advantage of ANYONE they can. They take advantage of
men just as fast. I've never got a good deal on a car because (like some
women), I know absolutely nothing about cars. They don't take advantage of
me because I'm a man. They take advantage of me because they can. The same
is true of women.
Society today puts women under more pressure than ever to be
fashionably groomed and dressed. It's not surprising then that those
who provide the services and products to fulfill that need are cashing
in. And women are paying more than men for a wide range of goods and
services.
I was a retail manager for many years. I've managed pharmacies, restaurants,
clothing stores, etc. There are many reasons why women's clothing costs more
than men's. Women demand more fashion and styling than men. There are far
more colors, patterns and styles in women's clothing than men's. How many
men give a damn if the guy across the room has on the same color and style
of shirt, etc. How many women would feel the same? More advertising is done
to sell women's clothing. It is more fashionable and therefore more
"volatile" and seasonal. If it doesn't sell and sell fast, it's "history".
Men's clothing is different. If it doesn't sell this season, save it for
next year. It'll sell then. There's quite a difference. The clothing may not
cost more to "make", but it costs more nevertheless and therefore the retail
price is more.
When I called one of the better known salons in Vancouver to inquire
about prices of haircuts, I was told women pay between $35 and $50,
while men pay $30 to $40. When asked why women pay more, the
receptionist confirmed what I suspected--"That's just the way it is in
most salons." But surely the same products are used. And the same
skills are required. And through observation, men's haircuts today
take just as long as women's.
The average woman (if there is one) has more hair than the average man. It
takes more time and effort to cut and style. It takes longer to do it. More
products are used. Regardless, I question anyone paying that much for a
haircut. I walk in, sit down, walk out 15 or 20 minutes later. The barber
cuts a little off the top, shaves the sideburns, sprays a little water (or
whatever it is) on my hair, combs it, vacuums me off and takes off the
protective sheet. It costs me $5.00 and I walk out the door. I make no
appointment and I seldom wait. I'd cut my own hair or let it grow before I'd
pay such ridiculous prices for a haircut whether I was a man or a woman.
Dry-cleaning prices are also gender-specific, giving men a big price
advantage. A man's shirt costs in the region of $1.90 to be
laundered; a woman's plain cotton shirt runs about $3.50. It seems
women's prices are based on assumptions that women's wear is more
fancy and has "more trim." Whatever that means. Well, for us
business types, it ain't necessarily so.
Dry-cleaners are a "rip-off" no matter whether you're a man or a woman. When
you consider how much it costs to dry clean something, I refuse to buy
anything which must be dry cleaned unless it's a suit or something similar.
I think it's silly to pay $20 and up for a silk tie and then pay several
bucks every time I wear it. It's cheaper to buy a cheaper tie and buy a new
one every time you wear it. Granted, no one would consider me a "fashion
model", but then I've still got my money. Where's everyone else's? It's in
the dry cleaner's pockets!
Retailers get in on the discrimination act as well. When women buy a
new outfit, alterations are rarely, if ever, included in the price.
But for men all kinds of alterations will be made, and free of charge.
I know nothing about this and I'm sure everyone will be glad to know that I
have no comment. (grin)
The growing health and beauty industry, too, is notorious for
differential pricing on men's and women's products. At a major
Vancouver department store, Calvin Klein Eternity cologne for men
retails at $61 for a 100-ml. spray, while the same brand and quantity
for women is $76. Clinique's 7 Day Facial Scrub for women with normal
skin is available in a 60-ml. tube for $14.50, or a 120-ml. jar for
$23. Meanwhile, a comparable men's face scrub (one formulation only)
costs $18 for 100 ml. No explanation was offered for the price
difference. The sales clerk did say, however, that the men's scrub
contained menthol, a stronger ingredient necessary for cleansing the
"more" layers in a man's skin. Does this mean, then, that since
women's skin is generally advertised as "delicate," their products
require more expensive ingredients, thereby justifying higher prices?
Only the cosmetics companies know for sure, but I'm skeptical.
The main cost difference here is again advertising. More dollars are spent
on advertising women's toiletries than men's. Ergo, they cost more. Whether
the additional advertising dollars spent justify the price differential, I
can't say.
So, there are more women than ever in the workforce. They earn less
than men. They buy big ticket items and spend money on a wider range
of personal services than men. Yet they usually pay more. Seems
wrong from where I sit. At least I found one small consolation: men
pay more for life insurance.
I found out a long time ago, the market charges as much as it can for
anything. The only color or sex that makes any difference is the color of
the money and the sex of the personage on the money. Greed is not gender,
color or anyother specific.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:25:58 +0000
From: Pierre Keller - BCU Lausanne
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: About bibliographic references
Message-Id: <199607251126.EAA08058@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello to all !
As an ex-librarian (now EDP in my library), I would say - regarding
some discussions in this list - that it is a good practice to give
full bibliographic reference for a citation. This means:
Author, title
Publisher, place and year of publication
and in cas of a journal:
Title of the journal, issue number, pages
Without these informations, even the most skilled librarian is not
always able to find the item.
In case of an Internet document, the situation is not so clear. There
are still discussions. But at least an URL is very usefull to retrieve
the item.
IMHO, this is also true in a femsuprem world.
--
Pierre Keller
Bibliotheque cantonale et universitaire
University of Lausanne
CH-1015 Lausanne Dorigny (Switzerland)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:16:52 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-ID:
Ok, Barry....where do you live?
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:34:36 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable I
Message-ID:
FEYou wrote:
FE
FETony-well done and very well referenced!I wonder what some creative
FEwriters
FEwill say to your real facts?
FE
FEThank you Matt and thanks for being a voice of reason in this mailing
FElist!!!
FETony
Are your own lives so empty that you must asshole-buddy
penis-bond HERE? The statistics were never the issue,
the issue was a social imbalance that exists, and what
you have done with your argument, is prove that the
poster is 100% on-target.
Personally, I take issue with YOUR statistics as well--
I know for a fact that there are more than 4000 anorexics/
bulimiacs in New York alone...as for ABSOLUTE figures,
c'mon, SURELY you know better than that!
The only thing you have accomplished, is to make yourself
look like a completely out-of-control ass who is
seriously threatened by women, or society, or statistics,
or some deep trauma--
I vote for banishment. I don't want to read anymore of
your nastiness. You are obviously a victim of testosterone
poisoning....or maybe, you just need to get laid. Or maybe
you have BMS, (Bullshit Male Syndrome.)
Hmmmm...and where have I heard THAT one before?
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Discussion and debate
Message-Id: <199607251733.KAA12030@serbia.it.earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Disclaimer: the words used below represent only my understanding of them at
the time I wrote them. No other warrantly is stated or implied.
...
It seems to me there are two kinds of dialog that bear a superficial
similarity, but have an entirely different significance in context. (1) A
discussion, I would suggest, is an exchange of ideas, for the purpose of
developing a more complete understanding; (2) a debate is also an exchange
of ideas, but as a competition between the debators, for the purpose of
establishing a winner and a loser. In both cases the each participant
attends to the ideas presented by the other. In a discussion one attempts to
assimilate divergent views to expand the scope of one's understanding. In a
debate one attempts to eliminate divergent views ... an opponent's ideas are
understood for the purpose of destroying them thereby winning the contest.
I'm not sure why that comes to mind just now. Could it be something
about the dialogs that have been going on in some of the postings ... nah,
probably not.
zbobz
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-ID:
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
Ok, Barry....where do you live?
CybErotiComm Online
CybErotiComm:
Portland, OR.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #164
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 165
Today's Topics:
i had to look
Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable I
god
Re: A new subject
here it is with corrected links....
Re: A new subject
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #163
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:18:55 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: i had to look
Message-ID: <31F7F2CF.4DE7@tiac.net
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kind of a long post..but all statistics and sites included:
If it were just me I would have left this alone. I have not yet read
any of the mail on the list today..I have been researching all morning.
I am sure many of you are sick of it...but I needed to find the figures
for my own piece of mind..and also because my reputation had been put on
the line by tony and matt. What follows are the most provable figures i
could find....they are lower than my first information and higher than
tony's information..i apologize for racing to conclusions without proper
research..(it is what always happens when heat generates inquiry rather
than reason) i do not apologize for anything else.
While research should by its very nature be ongoing....a revolution by
its very nature should always be revolving. the respectful exchange of
information on different perspectives is the oil that keeps the wheel
greased. What happened here yesterday, was not respectful and
contraindicative to any real growth potential as in an informed debate
between people who respect the equality of their fellow people.
My references are all clickable from here if you are using netscape mail
and I stand by them. I apologize if you have covered this all on the
list this morning, and promise this truly is the last time I will speak
of it.
YESTERDAY
Yesterday I hit many sources to come up with the figure I came up
with..my information was based on that information and not a lie as I
have been accused of...this new information is result of 7 hours on the
internet and doing the statistical data from census. I have used the
most conservative figures I found..but have pointed you at the end of
this email, to other sites with higher figures...I think no one really
knows. These have been closet diseases, but appear to be coming out of
the closet.
TODAY
Even these most conservative numbers are too many young women. I have
also included some personal sites about anorexia and bulimia from the
internet..they are very touching and hope many of you will visit...THIS
IS AFTER ALL ABOUT PEOPLE AND NOT NUMBERS.
THE FOLLOWING IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM the National Institute of Mental
Health
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
Each year millions of people in the United States are affected by
serious and sometimes life-threatening eating disorders. The vast
majority--more than 90 percent--of those afflicted with
eating disorders are adolescent and young adult women. One reason that
women in this age group are particularly vulnerable to eating disorders
is their tendency to go on strict diets to achieve an
"ideal" figure. Researchers have found that such stringent dieting can
play a key role in triggering eating disorders.
Approximately 1 percent of adolescent girls develop anorexia nervosa, a
dangerous condition in which they can literally starve themselves to
death. Another 2 to 3 percent of young women develop
bulimia nervosa, a destructive pattern of excessive overeating followed
by vomiting or other "purging" behaviors to control their weight. These
eating disorders also occur in men and older women, but much less
frequently.
BASE FIGURES OF THE DISEASE I USED IN THIS CALCULATION AND WHERE I GOT
THE FROM:
1% of adolescent girls develop anorexia
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
one in ten case of anorexia leads to death.
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
2% to 3% develop bulimia
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
WHERE I GOT MY POPULATION FIGURES AND WHICH ONES I CHOSE
I got my population figures from the federal government, 1990 Census
http://cedr.lbl.gov/cdrom/doc/lookup_doc.html
I used national population figures for Caucasian, African-American and
Hispanic girls/women between the ages of 7 and 21...the major age group
affected by eating disorders. National statistics are found at the
above mentioned site by clicking on STF3C when you arrive at site.
These are figures as of 1990:
There were a total of 27,715,577.00 (rounded decimal places), (twenty
seven million, seven hundred fifteen thousand, five hundred and seventy
seven) girls/young women between the ages of 7 and 21 in the United
States.
19,594,523.00 of them are Caucasion
5,773,172.00 of them are African-American
2,367,882.00 of them are Hispanic
(i left out asian and native women)
TOTAL: 27,715,577.00 girls/women between the ages of 7 and 21.
based on the information at
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
if 1% of these young women are anorexic..the number of anorexics are:
27,715,577.00 x .01 (1%) = 277,155.77 young women in the United States
suffer from Anorexia...
if 1 out of ten (10%) of them die from anorexia:
277,155.77 x .1 (10%)= 27,715.57 die from anorexia....
FURTHER:
again from census and
http://www.nimh.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
if 2% have bulimia that is
27,715,577.00 x .02 (2%)=544,311.54 with bulimia
add that to 1% with anorexia...that means 831,467.31 young women in
america are suffering from these two eating disorders alone.
if 3% have bulimia that is
27,715,577.00 x .03 (3%)=831,467.31 with bulimia
add that to 1% with anorexia...that means 1,108,623.08 young women in
america are suffering from these two eating disorders alone.
HERE ARE SOURCES FOR WHY:
Calvin Klein...thinness pressures..personal stories and links to other
eating disorder sites:
http://www.neca.com/~cwildes
NEW STUDIES (1995)FROM U.S. ANOREXIA AND BULIMIA STUDY CENTER suggest
eating disorders in young women on rise...maybe up to one in three young
women have eating disorders.
site: http://wwwstud.unit.no/studorg/ikstrh.ed
ANOREXIA AND ATHLETES:
reported high incidence of Anorexia in women athletes and expecially
ballerinas. this site says about 20% of anorexics die from the disease
and also points to perception of overweight, seeking perfection and fear
of becoming fat as major causes of the disease in young women.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w-fishy/ed-5.htm
EATING DISORDERS MEMORIAL SITE
this site includes the names and stories and diaries and family
remembrances of many young women who have died from these eating
disorders...very moving and better than any numbers...how many women
are too many women? Unfortunately the numbers are growing everyday.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w_fishy/memorial.htm.
its not fun but very informative
and thanks for you patience in getting to the end.
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:25:17 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable I
Message-ID: <31F7F44D.A5F@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
Or maybe
you have BMS, (Bullshit Male Syndrome.)
you must have heard the one about PMS....Putting up with Men's Shit.
(@) (@)
C
\____/
Patricia
Tony and Matt who????
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:37:09 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: god
Message-ID: <31F7F715.539C@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please, before anyone jumps on me..i typed the wrong html...i know i
will be yelled at again and called names..it was a typing error and this
is the site for all the eating disorder numbers...
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:39:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-Id: <199607251939.MAA01183@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
In an absolute sense neither of us are convinced by fem-supremacy, at
least in the fantastic sense of jackbooted women coming to absolute
power (great fantasy for a weekend party), or in some philosophical fem-
separatist sense where women hold all the strings apart from some male
drones retained for menial duties and for their seed.
I have met (online) the occasional person who espouses that kind of
femsupremacy, where the women just all revolt and "take control" of
the world and all men are just voiceless, abused slaves. As you say,
it's fun as a fantasy, story material, or a few days of roleplaying,
but it's not the kind of life I'd want to lead.
We think having been around for a little bit now, that is probably the
view of a good number here (i.e you're pragmatists who do really quite
like men if only they did'nt cause such trouble), rather our fem-
supremacy seems to be composed of several threads:
Yup, I've got a lot of male friends. Reading on...
that the stereotype of the feminine (sensitivity, care, nurturing) might
have more relevance to the planet's health today than has been allowed
in the past, it might help assist in the triumpth of the person (all
persons);
Indeed. If everyone looked at their fellow humans as other people,
with needs, strengths, weaknesses, and dreams, instead of as
competitors or prey, the world would be a happier place.
that some men for a host of complex reasons really seek to serve a woman
and there are women who need that service at a variety of levels - we
find this interesting in that it is quite an old tradition, in some ways
the old order of chivalry was fem-supremacist, the idea that the Lady
was worshipped kept going through all sorts of cultures;
I have met quite a number of men who seek to serve a woman or women in
general in one way or another. It's quite amazing to see just how
many there are who want to do this. However, I must question the
sincerity of some of them, who seem more interested in reality in
finding a woman who will get them off than actually doing anything for
one.
But, still, there are quite a large number of men who want to serve
women. My hope is that as "alternative lifestyles" (e.g. BDSM, etc.)
become more acceptable among the general public, these men will feel
more comfortable letting it be know that they are submissive. I think
a lot of people would be shocked to see just how many men _don't_ fit
the "man of the house" role at home.
And, yes, chivalry was a rather femdommish kind of setup. There are
people who follow this kind of relationship structure today.
that a mass of male behaviour (and point taken about responsibility) has
been very abusive in the past and women deserve to be free of this now,
if fs helps to achieve this, great, but we don't fancy women who have
simply learnt to be as nasty as men (and there are some);
Yup! What's the point in trying to "improve" things if you just swing
them to the other side? I find women at that end of the spectrum just
as chilling as the men at that end.
there are three forces and doubtless there are others which make for
sympathy to fs,
there is another and this is blatantly sexual but we wish to offer it.
It goes back to the nature of male orgasm as we flagged up in looking at
Genesis. A really excellent reason for fs seems to be in our opinion the
opportunity it gives for both partners to learn how a man's orgasm can
be controlled and manipulated, such that his pleasure comes only at her
say so. This is not another version of bullying, rather it is founded in
the apparent physical fact that a woman can experience multiple orgasms
and a man usually cannot. If therefore a pair are to derive as much
pleasure from sex as possible the man needs training in order to last as
long as possible. I rather guess in the natural order of things, the
male's urge is to shoot as fast as possible. This change is a factor of
birth control converting sex from primarily pro-creational to a
primarily (?what do folk think here?) pleasurable experience. Training a
male to prolong his sexual activity certainly does not feature on
typical male growing up curricula so where is he to learn this
technique? Is this education of the male a major task for fem-
supremicists and where is it done? Does anyone know of (serious not
fantasy) programmes to do this or is it simply something partners teach
themselves (the Stevenson's will probably jump in here with their
material, but our question is really how do we get society to take the
issue seriously and not have to rely on the "underground")?
Sexual instruction for both genders is rather lacking. There are
women who don't know what an orgasm is, have never had one. There are
men who, even though they want to please their partners, have no idea
of the fact that about 1/3 of women don't orgasm during intercourse.
And, let's not forget female/female and male/male couples. IMO, f/f
and m/m might have it a bit better, since they already have *ahem*
experience with their own equipment, so can carry that on to their
partner's.
The truth is that for both genders, you really have 2 ways of learning
how to enjoy sexual activity more, and how to help your partner enjoy
it more:
1. Meet up with someone who is more experienced, and happy to
teach.
2. Spend a lot of time with books like the Kama Sutra.
Though, I think that things are changing a bit when it comes to men
thinking they can just get off and not care about their partner. As
women become more assertive, they become more demanding about enjoying
things for themselves. Make it less generally acceptable, and less
guys will grow up thinking it's ok. Sounds like progress to me. :)
I don't really know of any "programs" persay though. Things like the
Kama Sutra do talk about _both_ people's pleasure. And, there's
Tantra, which is excellent for teaching staying power.
It seems to us that you could argue about the political aspects of fs a
great deal but that the sexual aspect ought to offer couples a wonderful
prospect for both partners, without necessarily requiring a particular
set political agenda, nor even without going into the extremes of a
domme relationship (for those who enjoy such servitude (and it can
appeal to Robert) wonderful, have fun).
Yup, there's both sides of the idea of femsupremacy right there. :)
Practically speaking we have found that the way the control is best
exercised often sees the lady riding the man but we would appreciate any
comment from folk who feel that even in a submissive (i.e underneath)
physical position, a woman can still control a man.
Sure. Especially if you use pain to slow down their rise to orgasm.
Or, if you've developed the kind of command over them where they
cannot orgasm without permission (which is possible). And, for those
women who don't orgasm from intercourse anyway, just get the orgasm
another way (e.g. oral sex) which doesn't risk any real danger of the
fellow being able to orgasm earlier than desired.
And, of course, once again...there are also f/f and m/m couples out
there. I guess m/m couples could have the most problem with orgasming
too fast, but they have the advantage, once again, that both have the
same equipment so they'll have a better understanding of how to
prevent the other from "finishing." f/f couples may or may not have
that problem, but once again, understanding each other's bodies from
personal experience would help them as well.
The control also
often benefits from toys. For instance a friend recently said that she
would love her man to give her an oil massage but he gets bored after a
couple of minutes (and these two are both very much in love folk but
just rather overburdened with work), we are still working up the courage
to suggest that some carefully applied restraints, a collar and lead or
some rubber clothing might produce someone willing to massage for a long
time (or it does in our case). Additionally once a man is trained to
hand his orgasm to his lady, a real control to prevent him misbehaving
outside the relationship can be established.
I find that music also makes massage more interesting for both
parties. And, personally, if I'm enjoying it I let the masseur
know...generally makes for a more enthusiastic massage. :) We should
always remember that our slaves/subs/significant others aren't robots.
Does any of this ring bells out there? Are their folk on the list who
without necessarily going for the whole FS package (whatever that might
be), nonetheless feel that in the bedroom it offers huge potential to
simply increase the guy's staying time and application to his devoted?
Well, I'm not sure how I feel about "female supremacy only in the
bedroom" (which I realise isn't exactly what you mean). That's more
"femdom." However, there's no rule that everyone into female
supremacy has to be mega political about it. For some it's just a
deeply held belief that somewhat colors day to day life in the home.
That's fine.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:42:00 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: here it is with corrected links....
Message-ID: <31F7F838.53E2@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HERE ARE CORRECTED LINKS.....TO EATING NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MENTAL
HEALTH
BASE FIGURES OF THE DISEASE I USED IN THIS CALCULATION AND WHERE I GOT
THE FROM:
1% of adolescent girls develop anorexia
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
one in ten case of anorexia leads to death.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
2% to 3% develop bulimia
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
WHERE I GOT MY POPULATION FIGURES AND WHICH ONES I CHOSE
I got my population figures from the federal government, 1990 Census
http://cedr.lbl.gov/cdrom/doc/lookup_doc.html
I used national population figures for Caucasian, African-American and
Hispanic girls/women between the ages of 7 and 21...the major age group
affected by eating disorders. National statistics are found at the
above mentioned site by clicking on STF3C when you arrive at site.
These are figures as of 1990:
There were a total of 27,715,577.00 (rounded decimal places), (twenty
seven million, seven hundred fifteen thousand, five hundred and seventy
seven) girls/young women between the ages of 7 and 21 in the United
States.
19,594,523.00 of them are Caucasion
5,773,172.00 of them are African-American
2,367,882.00 of them are Hispanic
(i left out asian and native women)
TOTAL: 27,715,577.00 girls/women between the ages of 7 and 21.
based on the information at
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
if 1% of these young women are anorexic..the number of anorexics are:
27,715,577.00 x .01 (1%) = 277,155.77 young women in the United States
suffer from Anorexia...
if 1 out of ten (10%) of them die from anorexia:
277,155.77 x .1 (10%)= 27,715.57 die from anorexia....
FURTHER:
again from census and
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/eatdis.htm
if 2% have bulimia that is
27,715,577.00 x .02 (2%)=544,311.54 with bulimia
add that to 1% with anorexia...that means 831,467.31 young women in
america are suffering from these two eating disorders alone.
if 3% have bulimia that is
27,715,577.00 x .03 (3%)=831,467.31 with bulimia
add that to 1% with anorexia...that means 1,108,623.08 young women in
america are suffering from these two eating disorders alone.
HERE ARE SOURCES FOR WHY:
Calvin Klein...thinness pressures..personal stories and links to other
eating disorder sites:
http://www.neca.com/~cwildes
NEW STUDIES (1995)FROM U.S. ANOREXIA AND BULIMIA STUDY CENTER suggest
eating disorders in young women on rise...maybe up to one in three young
women have eating disorders.
site: http://wwwstud.unit.no/studorg/ikstrh.ed
ANOREXIA AND ATHLETES:
reported high incidence of Anorexia in women athletes and expecially
ballerinas. this site says about 20% of anorexics die from the disease
and also points to perception of overweight, seeking perfection and fear
of becoming fat as major causes of the disease in young women.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w-fishy/ed-5.htm
EATING DISORDERS MEMORIAL SITE
this site includes the names and stories and diaries and family
remembrances of many young women who have died from these eating
disorders...very moving and better than any numbers...how many women
are too many women? Unfortunately the numbers are growing everyday.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w_fishy/memorial.htm.
its not fun but very informative
and thanks for you patience in getting to the end.
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:58:58 -0400
From: Robert Hoffer
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-ID: <31F7D202.3114@nerds.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I keep reading about men 'requiring training' to prolong their erections
prior to ejaculation; time and again the idea is expressed that men
want to or have been taught to or are conditioned to climax as soon as
possible.
Speaking now from a male's perspective, this is silly. Women's orgasms
feel great! It's *very* male to want your female partner to have as
many as possible prior to ejaculation - it's like setting records.
Hell, I define myself by the number of multiple orgasms my partner has
when we make love - the more the better. In fact, for some reason, her
orgasms have a tendency to prevent me from ejaculating - must be the
pressure or the lubrication.
The idea of humping like a dog, ejaculating and rolling off to bed is
ridiculous: what fun is that?
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:27:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607252027.NAA08577@netcom11.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 527
Sorceress wrote
Ok, Barry....where do you live?
She means it, Barry.
Last time she wrote one of these,,,
You have 4 days to turn yourself into a bronze god and lose all that
weight (or whatever) that you were going to do this summer.
;P
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:43:09 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #163
Message-ID: <31F6B50D.105F@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I repeat I DID NOT SAY ALL MENI SAID MANY MENTOO MANY MEN
Patricia, I hate to admit it, but...you got us. Ray, we better pay
closer attention to this one!
Peter (who also has been the butt of insensitive "humorous" remarks).Good point. I guess politically correct is occasionally correct. No
harm was meant but harm was done. You set me straight, thanks!
I'm attempting to ingratiate myself with the
women on this list is that I need some female input for the short story
"Obsequious Suckups In Bondage" which I'm writing for the
alt.perverted.toadies newsgroup. You won't want to miss it!
Barry, you are too much! You bring to mind the phrase "much ado about
nothing" And wither your opponents with "faint praise" Hysterical, love
it!
F you can't source your quotes then don't bother putting them on this
forum and if you do, then expect ridicule.
Ridicule is not what were about here. If a persons wrong, it is possible
to disagree without being disagreeable. Everyone can have a bad
day. Let's show a little tolerance or we'll never learn anything from
each other.
who often seem to condemn and vilify first (like when
psychoanalyzing other people's innocent fantasies) and relegate
intellectually honest discussion of differences to the back burner.
Tony
Way to go Tony! Kudos to you. Your statistics were interesting,
although I hope everyone doesn't start feeling like we have to have a
statistic for everything. People did put it on you pretty good about
your fantasy, but condemn and vilify is too strong a description. Even
so, you should be able to take disagreement and do just what you did in
this post. Your ideas were interesting and articulated well. Your
honest discussion of differences is on my front burner. Patricia's main
point was dismissed by you as "sad, very sad." But that was our main
concern as we discussed the issue. She had the spirit of our opinions,
not the letter. However, I'm glad she motivated you to expand and
clarify her point, the information is welcome. Five hundred women is
horrifying to me, and let's by all means include the boys and men you
mentioned! Stop this insanity now! If all women wore a 12 instead of a
10 and those people were still alive today wouldn't we all rejoice?
Would one size make THAT much difference?
Your fantasy is athletic women, and that is a hot fantasy. My
preference is a voluptuous hour glass shaped lady exemplified by my
wife. Other men like very thin women. All that is fine, as long as each
man clearly communicates to his lady that no matter what she looks like,
she will be accepted. When men get on women about their weight, or women
compete and play the I'm thinner than you so ha ha game, it's WRONG!
That was a great newsletter, thanks to all for some fun reading! We
should all appreciate what we have here, and how empty the space would be
without you all! Type on you maniacs!!!
Spirit Wind
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #165
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 167
Today's Topics:
sorry
Women's gymnastics.
i had to look
Re: i had to look
Re: A new subject
Re: A new subject
Re: A new subject, Serving
Re: A new subject, Serving
Re: Article: There Oughta Be a Law
Tanning and toning.
Re: A new subject, Serving
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:04:00 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: sorry
Message-ID: <31F85FD0.7768@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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sorry magnus...i just sent this and then realized your addressing system
goes back to you and not the list......
Noble wrote:
I know...I have those stats, but I am not going to say..cause I do not
intend to leave myself open for attack again...I will email you
privately with them Dee Ann.
Patricia
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
the US? Are the people who don't pay child support in the US still
97% men? That's a _serious_ problem. Once again, instead of arguing
How many single men with children are there compared to the number of
single women with children? You have to weigh that into the equation, or
the statistics will be seriously skewed.
---
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 05:12:16 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Women's gymnastics.
Message-Id: <199607260311.FAA13235@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:18:55 -0700, Noble wrote:
kind of a long post..but all statistics and sites included:
Wow! I'm impressed! Well done!
(See! I *can* comment your posts without questioning you ;).)
ANOREXIA AND ATHLETES:
reported high incidence of Anorexia in women athletes and expecially
ballerinas. this site says about 20% of anorexics die from the disease
and also points to perception of overweight, seeking perfection and fear
of becoming fat as major causes of the disease in young women.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w-fishy/ed-5.htm
I'm sure many of you know, that the American team won the ladies'
gymnastics. In my opinion it's questionable whether this discipline
belongs in the olympics anymore. It's no longer a sport. It's child abuse.
Perhaps you've seen or read how the former communist countries treated
and still treat their female gymnasts to achieve the results they did.
Some of the coaches responsible for this abuse have now moved to the
U.S.A.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:46:40 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: i had to look
Message-ID:
Very grim. Thank you for your perseverance.
b
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:25:33 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: i had to look
Message-ID: <31F872ED.6B46@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
thanks sorceress...it should never have been about right or wrong.., or
someone taking a mis-step...I think that's generally how we mere mortals
get to the heights...one mis-step after another....it should always be
about getting to the truth.
It was a painful experience, I feel, I grew
and I just love you woman!!!!
Patricia
sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
Very grim. Thank you for your perseverance.
b
CybErotiComm Online
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-Id: <199607260523.WAA01548@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Coyote Sings wrote:
Of course: Tantra.
(Tantra here meaning any form of an ascetic practice which stresses
erotic tension over gratification, especially for the male, and the
practical effect of which is to subsume the peripheral male energy
into the central Female energy. Whew! ;d )
I am both amazed and disappointed at how little attention
this subject gets in this forum, when it seems to me to be almost
central to any discussion of FS sexuality. Now, 'Tantra' as used
by most Westerners is pretty watered down (to the point we could
almost call it 'Neo-Tantra' or less charitably 'Tantra Lite') but
even so well worth the investigation (which I am only just beginning).
Here's an assignment for you, then. ;) Collect a list of what you
think are the best tantric sources on the net, and post their
locations here. Then, folks can read about it, and post their
thoughts of how it applies to female supremacy.
The fact that spirituality is such a turn-off for some here has
probably inhibited serious discussion of Tantra, which is our loss.
(Why should I flame just one person when I can flame all my friends?)
Some women who were very interested in Tantra and erotic asceticism
in general (Holly, Iris, Robin) have left the list long ago. But
there are I hope enough of us here to perhaps give the Forsythes
some answers.
"Spirituality" isn't a turnoff for me, personally. What is a turnoff
is people getting into huge fights over religion. As long as it stays
away from fights, it's perfectly cool. ;) And, after all,
spirituality and religion are intertwined, but not the same.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:46:04 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-ID: <31F885CC.7A55@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
as long as you don't try to stuff it in a building..
or attach it to a dogma...or make it an "ism"..
and it doesn't create monsters and places to scare the children, like
devils and hell...well then
spirituality is o.k. by me.
Patricia
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
Coyote Sings wrote:
Of course: Tantra.
(Tantra here meaning any form of an ascetic practice which stresses
erotic tension over gratification, especially for the male, and the
practical effect of which is to subsume the peripheral male energy
into the central Female energy. Whew! ;d )
I am both amazed and disappointed at how little attention
this subject gets in this forum, when it seems to me to be almost
central to any discussion of FS sexuality. Now, 'Tantra' as used
by most Westerners is pretty watered down (to the point we could
almost call it 'Neo-Tantra' or less charitably 'Tantra Lite') but
even so well worth the investigation (which I am only just beginning).
Here's an assignment for you, then. ;) Collect a list of what you
think are the best tantric sources on the net, and post their
locations here. Then, folks can read about it, and post their
thoughts of how it applies to female supremacy.
The fact that spirituality is such a turn-off for some here has
probably inhibited serious discussion of Tantra, which is our loss.
(Why should I flame just one person when I can flame all my friends?)
Some women who were very interested in Tantra and erotic asceticism
in general (Holly, Iris, Robin) have left the list long ago. But
there are I hope enough of us here to perhaps give the Forsythes
some answers.
"Spirituality" isn't a turnoff for me, personally. What is a turnoff
is people getting into huge fights over religion. As long as it stays
away from fights, it's perfectly cool. ;) And, after all,
spirituality and religion are intertwined, but not the same.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:11:07 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-Id: <199607260611.XAA08745@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:32 PM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
At 12:39 PM 7/25/96 -0700, Dee-Ann wrote:
I have met quite a number of men who seek to serve a woman or women in
general in one way or another. It's quite amazing to see just how
many there are who want to do this. However, I must question the
sincerity of some of them, who seem more interested in reality in
finding a woman who will get them off than actually doing anything for
one.
I am one who is sincere. I serve both as a Dom and a sub. It makes little
difference to me how I serve. I serve in either capacity. In one, the woman
allows me to take control as she gives herself to me. It is the greatest
gift in the world and I cherish it. I do what is necessary to fulfill her
needs which also fulfills me.
As a sub, I give myself to her in order that her needs be fulfilled. In
fulfilling her needs, I fulfill my own for I exist to serve. I know that
sounds funny coming from a Dom, but it is true nevertheless. I know and
correspond with many Doms who are the same. I think all TRUE Dom's feel this
way. It is only those "would-be Dom's" who are only interested in their own
needs who abuse women. I would never dream of forcing a woman to do anything
UNLESS she WANTS OR NEEDS me to force her. (grin)
But, still, there are quite a large number of men who want to serve
women. My hope is that as "alternative lifestyles" (e.g. BDSM, etc.)
become more acceptable among the general public, these men will feel
more comfortable letting it be know that they are submissive. I think
a lot of people would be shocked to see just how many men _don't_ fit
the "man of the house" role at home.
I agree. I too, hope it becomes more acceptable. I am quite sure, it will
not become so among my family in my lifetime though they would probably
still love me. I'm talking about my wife's family. My family would probably
"faint".
Dee-Ann
I can be the man of the house or I can be the "woman of the house". (grin)
It makes little difference to me. To quote a great man, "I 'yam what I 'yam".
You're right, it all depends on the mindset and attitude of the individual,
and most men are egocentrically-based, i.e. I want mine and I want it
now...you go get your own. There are some sincere men out there, however,
who believe that service to women is a deep calling. I know for me, it's
just the way life should be lived to attain happiness and fulfillment.
Ah, to be fulfilled. To fulfill is to BE fulfilled.
I've had some interesting conversations with people about my desire to serve
and please women. Most of them either don't believe me or others just can't
fathom why one would have these desires. My simple answer to them is that
it gives me great pleasure (not the sexual kind) to nurture, support, and
yes even sacrifice (while maintaining my own identity) to make a woman's
life better and more fulfilling. For example, I will soon be learning some
personal services (manicure/pedicure) to better please and pamper. To bring
pleasure and enjoyment is my greatest satisfaction, and to know that my
efforts are cherised and appreciated is my reward.
I've never thought of learning manicure/pedicure, but it makes sense. I
don't think I'll have the time to do this anytime soon, but I'll file this
away for future reference. Thanks.
I'm not sure where these feelings were born. Perhaps from my family
upbringing, I was the youngest of six and tried to please my Mom in order to
compensate for some older "problem" siblings. Maybe another source was my
My father died. I had no siblings. I tried to please my mother and all my
aunts who helped raise me to some extent because there was no one else. I
had no father figure of any kind.
relative lack of superficial beauty, so to attract women I had to be
extremely attentive and
had to put a lot of effort and thought into the relationship for it to succeed.
I've always felt pretty much the same. Rather, I've always felt I had to
"over-compensate" in the beginning at least before the woman got to know me
better. Once she knows me and is able to appreciate me, I don't feel such a
great need though the same process occurs.
To pick up on an earlier thread, I know that my service is cherised even
more because of the fact that I'm not a doormat, but rather a strong
independent person, that has made a conscious choice to give my gift to
those who are deserving of it.
True, so true.
Certainly alternative lifestyles like BDSM allows some to better define
their roles. I know for me BDSM has provided a vehicle, a way of channeling
Thanks for D/s or BDSM whatever you want to call it.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:56:42 -0500
From: stu
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-ID: <31F87A3A.2980@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul wrote:=20
For example, I will soon be learning some personal services (manicure/p=
edicure) to better please and pamper.
Some other suggestions along those lines. 1. reflexology, using points=20
on the hands, feet, & body to correct energy imbalances. This can be=20
followed by a good footrub. Learn massage,its a great way to release=20
tension in your partner. Its really rewarding to feel the tightness &=20
tension leave.
Have fun
steve
--=20
MZ=90
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 03:57:45 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Article: There Oughta Be a Law
Message-Id: <199607260402.GAA15326@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 03:10:50 -0700, Ray Jones wrote:
Dry-cleaners are a "rip-off" no matter whether you're a man or a woman. When
Do you know? Have you owned or operated such a business?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 04:20:36 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Tanning and toning.
Message-Id: <199607260402.GAA15335@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:27:38 -0700 (PDT), Coyote Sings wrote:
You have 4 days to turn yourself into a bronze god and lose all that
weight (or whatever) that you were going to do this summer.
If you succeeded in this, please let us know how you did it :)?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:09:43 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-Id: <199607260909.CAA16188@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:32 PM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
At 12:39 PM 7/25/96 -0700, Dee-Ann wrote:
I have met quite a number of men who seek to serve a woman or women in
general in one way or another. It's quite amazing to see just how
many there are who want to do this. However, I must question the
sincerity of some of them, who seem more interested in reality in
finding a woman who will get them off than actually doing anything for
one.
I am one who is sincere. I serve both as a Dom and a sub. It makes little
difference to me how I serve. I serve in either capacity. In one, the woman
allows me to take control as she gives herself to me. It is the greatest
gift in the world and I cherish it. I do what is necessary to fulfill her
needs which also fulfills me.
As a sub, I give myself to her in order that her needs be fulfilled. In
fulfilling her needs, I fulfill my own for I exist to serve. I know that
sounds funny coming from a Dom, but it is true nevertheless. I know and
correspond with many Doms who are the same. I think all TRUE Dom's feel this
way. It is only those "would-be Dom's" who are only interested in their own
needs who abuse women. I would never dream of forcing a woman to do anything
UNLESS she WANTS OR NEEDS me to force her. (grin)
But, still, there are quite a large number of men who want to serve
women. My hope is that as "alternative lifestyles" (e.g. BDSM, etc.)
become more acceptable among the general public, these men will feel
more comfortable letting it be know that they are submissive. I think
a lot of people would be shocked to see just how many men _don't_ fit
the "man of the house" role at home.
I agree. I too, hope it becomes more acceptable. I am quite sure, it will
not become so among my family in my lifetime though they would probably
still love me. I'm talking about my wife's family. My family would probably
"faint".
Dee-Ann
I can be the man of the house or I can be the "woman of the house". (grin)
It makes little difference to me. To quote a great man, "I 'yam what I 'yam".
You're right, it all depends on the mindset and attitude of the individual,
and most men are egocentrically-based, i.e. I want mine and I want it
now...you go get your own. There are some sincere men out there, however,
who believe that service to women is a deep calling. I know for me, it's
just the way life should be lived to attain happiness and fulfillment.
Ah, to be fulfilled. To fulfill is to BE fulfilled.
I've had some interesting conversations with people about my desire to serve
and please women. Most of them either don't believe me or others just can't
fathom why one would have these desires. My simple answer to them is that
it gives me great pleasure (not the sexual kind) to nurture, support, and
yes even sacrifice (while maintaining my own identity) to make a woman's
life better and more fulfilling. For example, I will soon be learning some
personal services (manicure/pedicure) to better please and pamper. To bring
pleasure and enjoyment is my greatest satisfaction, and to know that my
efforts are cherised and appreciated is my reward.
I've never thought of learning manicure/pedicure, but it makes sense. I
don't think I'll have the time to do this anytime soon, but I'll file this
away for future reference. Thanks.
I'm not sure where these feelings were born. Perhaps from my family
upbringing, I was the youngest of six and tried to please my Mom in order to
compensate for some older "problem" siblings. Maybe another source was my
My father died. I had no siblings. I tried to please my mother and all my
aunts who helped raise me to some extent because there was no one else. I
had no father figure of any kind.
relative lack of superficial beauty, so to attract women I had to be
extremely attentive and
had to put a lot of effort and thought into the relationship for it to succeed.
I've always felt pretty much the same. Rather, I've always felt I had to
"over-compensate" in the beginning at least before the woman got to know me
better. Once she knows me and is able to appreciate me, I don't feel such a
great need though the same process occurs.
To pick up on an earlier thread, I know that my service is cherised even
more because of the fact that I'm not a doormat, but rather a strong
independent person, that has made a conscious choice to give my gift to
those who are deserving of it.
True, so true.
Certainly alternative lifestyles like BDSM allows some to better define
their roles. I know for me BDSM has provided a vehicle, a way of channeling
Thanks for D/s or BDSM whatever you want to call it.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #167
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 166
Today's Topics:
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: A new subject
Re: A new subject
Re: A new subject, Serving
Women Pay More
If you are interested...
Physical appearance and politics.
Child support.
Stats from outside of the U.S.A.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-Id: <199607252050.NAA01225@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 6973
[pieces deleted so this note isn't even more huge than it needs to be
:)]
Ray Jones wrote:
Second: Women are just as responsible for the disease as men. If men are so
stupid as to think women should have to fit certain criteria for being
desirable, then women who believe the lie are just as stupid and help to
keep the lie alive. A woman doesn't have to do it, regardless.
The causes of eating disorders are, of course, much more complex.
Women are raised to compete with one another for men. Both mothers
and fathers often perpetuate this problem. I know I was told "who
will want you if you don't lose some weight?" Also, girls whose
personality causes them to crave acceptance could end up in a crowd
where all of them have eating disorders (binge/purge parties). Or,
girls who were raised to feel they'd be incomplete without a boyfriend
get into the dieting madness to attract guy after guy after guy. As
far as weight disorder problems among women who are into women, I'm
afraid I don't know as much about that. Obviously, a lot of society
needs to change to stop these problems. It's rarely just one thing
that causes illnesses of this magnitude.
I have noticed one thing. The only stats anyone's showing seem to be
US stats. Anyone have any stats for outside the US?
Third: Do you think men are under any less pressure to be desirable? Women
have criteria as well. To paraphrase one woman on this list, "I won't BED
any man who is short, fat, balding, under-endowed, etc." Did I go out and
make myself throw up because she and others felt that way? NO! I have lost a
lot of weight and am working out, but mostly for health reasons and not
because I think I'm going to be more desirable to women though it is a nice
side effect. (grin)
As I said before, men's eating disorders are on the rise. There was
already a problem among young men before that (in Canada as well) with
them using steroids to get pumped up. As society gets more focused on
looks, both genders are going to have more and more problems with
this.
An aside I'd like to make to the fellow who seems to feel that
everyone would take Arnold Schwartzenegger (spelling?) more seriously
in a political debate than someone who wasn't pumped...Often,
guys who are beefy are assumed to be less intelligent than those who
aren't. "All muscle, no brians." And, personally, in a debate I
actually listen to what's being said.
Let's face it and be realistic. Bulemia, anorexia and other related diseases
are psychological aberrations and are "exagerrations" of normal tendencies.
To blame them on men's attitudes or anything else is ludricous.
Every factor that builds together to cause these diseases is a
problem, but I wouldn't blame it solidly on one group. However, I'll
tell you that having personally experienced attitudes on the subject
from men in my life who I thought had brains (things like, "Yeah,
well, I'd ask her out if she'd lose some weight") I wouldn't underplay
the issue either. It's just that the women also contribute to it, so
it's really a general attitude issue, not just a male issue. I know
I've sat in a room listening to women heckle woman television stars,
people with maybe 10% body fat, saying "Look at how fat her thighs
are!"
Not just that, but women are expected to be thin, and yet eat like
everyone else. Hence, binge/purge problems.
I don't argue that SOME men's attitudes couldn't use "adjusting", but so
could SOME women's. Regardless, to blame the ills of one on the other is
unfair and not true.
I blame them on both. ;) However, men are often the ones in control
of hiring women for television and movies, and generally the ones
responsible for the fact that the highest paid women in the film
industry are the ones with big surgery and willing to strip. If
anyone has any stats on the film industry and who does hiring, you're
welcome to share them. I do remember hearing that it's pretty much
still a male dominated field (at least in the US) but that it's
changing. That's "some men," but awfully powerful and influential
men.
Fourth: Your statement that pregnancy shouldn't be blamed on women because
"she said she was on the pill" is ludricous. If she said she was "on the
pill", who SHOULD be blamed? Certainly not the man by himself. After all,
"No woman would tell such a lie would they?"
I don't recall her saying it shouldn't be blamed on women. I recall
her saying how some guys blame it on women, like they have nothing to
do with it. It does take two. Some women will lie so they can get
pregnant. Some are afraid of being rejected if they try to demand
that condoms be used. Some can't be on the pill or other hormone
solutions for medical reasons, so if a guy refuses to use a condom and
she lets him get away with it, it's like playing Russian roulette.
I like listening to the news reports of the male hormone solutions to
birth control. Some interesting research being done. How many
fellows here would be willing to take a pill or get an injection on a
regular basis to help your partners not get pregnant?
As Col. Potter would have put it so eloquently, "Horse hockey"! Because one
or more men cut off "meaningful dialogue" (if indeed they did) to make a
"blanket statment" including all men is just as unfair. I'm here. I'm open
for "meaningful" as well as "meaningless" dialogue. I'm sure I'm not the
only man so ready.
I think you're overreacting. When people try to turn a forum into a
hostile environment, attacking folks right and left, that _does_ cut
down on real discussion. And, once again, I don't think she was
referring to all men.
Many women do not do certain things as well. Does that make all women guilty
of such an offense? Of course not. Be reasonable.
In Canada, soon any _person_ who doesn't pay child support may not be
able to get a driver's license. They pointed out that 97% of those
people are male. No, that's not all men, especially since not all men
need to be paying child support (having no kids, or no divorce, etc.)
I'd like to see what percentage of people who should be paying child
support don't. According to the Canadian government, $1 billion in
child support doesn't get paid on a yearly basis in Canada. That's a
hell of a lot of money not going to help the people it's supposed to
help. And Canada has 1/10 of the population of the US,
approximately. Is $1 billion x 10 in child support not being paid in
the US? Are the people who don't pay child support in the US still
97% men? That's a _serious_ problem. Once again, instead of arguing
who's to blame, why don't we talk about solutions?
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:11:32 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-ID: <31F80D34.362B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee Ann
Yes, I did zero in on American information, but I did find a source
about Canada. The problem seems to be about the same for anoxexics
there...at 1% the site for the Canadian Information is Anorexia and
Bulimia Nervosa Foundation of Victoria Canada at:
http://www.vicnet.net.au/vicnet/community/anorexia/abng_tot.htm
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607251633.JAA20303@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mutt, er, Matt, wrote:
then give un the internet address.Must be REAL hard.CLUE-usually starts
with http://
if you can't source your quotes then don't bother putting them on this
forum and if you do, then expect ridicule.
-have- a killfile on this thing? Life's a lemon an' I want my money back!
Matt: If you can't refrain from being obnoxious to people on this list,
expect ridicule, hostility, banning, and having your email address added
to -all- the junk email lists 450,000 times. (Source - Lawless, 1996)
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607251630.JAA19993@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Barry wrote:
I have never been so emotionally disturbed and hurt as when I
awoke this morning and read my mail. One posting in particular was like
an arrow through my heart.
I winced....
dismissal of my months of ceaseless toadying and his assumption of Alpha
Toady status on the List.
Then I laughed. (Then I realized my head hurt when I laughed, so I went
for a beer from th' icebox
humor to the list - it was both needed, an' much appreciated. Grazie. :)
Chase (He who is -not- Alpha Toadie, nor Omega Toadie - how 'bout a hot
rum toadie though?)
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:40:25 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960724214025.006eb380@popd.ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Practically speaking we have found that the way the control is best
exercised often sees the lady riding the man but we would appreciate any
comment from folk who feel that even in a submissive (i.e underneath)
physical position, a woman can still control a man.
Does any of this ring bells out there?
fiona and robert forsythe
Well, it certainly rings my bells. I'm in a femdom relationship with my
husband, and not only is sex better this way for us, but it's consistant
with our femsupremacy ideals too. I do have some trouble seeing how a
femsupremacist could be comfortable in a male-dominant sexual relationship,
although it's certainly possible.
Laura Goodwin
"The heart has its reasons which reason doesn't know."
(Pascal)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-Id: <199607252222.PAA18575@netcom11.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 6161
Dee-Ann wrote, responding to the Forsythes
robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
In an absolute sense neither of us are convinced by fem-supremacy, at
least in the fantastic sense of jackbooted women coming to absolute
power (great fantasy for a weekend party), or in some philosophical fem-
separatist sense where women hold all the strings apart from some male
drones retained for menial duties and for their seed.
I have met (online) the occasional person who espouses that kind of
femsupremacy, where the women just all revolt and "take control" of
the world and all men are just voiceless, abused slaves.
I for one am not convinced that something like this _won't_
happen, either, though perhaps not as a the result of an 'uprising'
or other deliberate political act(s) and certainly not just
because a lot of power exchangers want to make it a really long
weekend. ;
My 'model' (it's hardly that, but all I can think of) is one
of concentric circles, and views the Feminine as central / basic
/ enduring and the masculine as peripheral and fleeting. In an
open ecological system with forever limitless resources, the
(male) periphery is where the growth is, the cutting edge. But
in a system of limited resources, a closed system where everything
has to be used over and over (eventually), it's the Feminine center
that claims the resources and energy needed for survival at worst
and a life of sufficiency and balance at best. To rely on either
the periphery or the center forever is absurd, but the last 10,000
years or perhaps less have been a time of decidedly peripheral,
masculine outlook with its assumption of limitless resources and
space, now discredited.
The humans take < Earth gives pattern has
failed and the whole human _oikos_ is about to collapse on itself,
meaning toward the center, toward the Feminine, toward a point of
sustainability. The masculine features and qualities of human life,
including perhaps men themselves, are about to become very marginal
indeed. Control, consumption, competition are about to become very
obsolete behaviors and about as fashionable as genocide. The survival
behaviors will be those of cooperation, conservation and community.
Guess who's been doing more of what? ;
(Industrial societies did have the choice of a balanced response
to the end of the 'endless resources' fantasy: the Feminine response
of investment in renewable resources and energy and care of the Earth,
and the very satisfyingly masculine 'Star Trek' response of investing
in a radical expansion of the human habitat -itself ultimately a
band-aid, as any good Klingon will be happy to point out. We may
still have those choices up the road- I believe we do/will- but in
the short run we must deal with the fact we have squandered the
better part of our 'best' century in war and the pursuit of heroic,
manly fantasies and the toys that are their fetishes. Talk about
kink!)
My view, my very Long View of how it unfolds in the direction of
Feminine authority, which will in very few particulars replicate
the 'jack-booted,' pyramid-building male model.
that the stereotype of the feminine (sensitivity, care, nurturing) might
have more relevance to the planet's health today than has been allowed
in the past, it might help assist in the triumpth of the person (all
persons);
How about triumph of the Earth, of the Lifescape? We all 4 of us
missed this the first time through, yet it's probably the most
important, most core issue on the table: the vital, urgent need
to end and even reverse overpopulation. We are both the dinosaurs
and the comet if we don't, and that means an end to male control of
(or even all but momentary participation in) human reproduction.
Indeed. If everyone looked at their fellow humans as other people,
with needs, strengths, weaknesses, and dreams, instead of as
competitors or prey, the world would be a happier place.
Of course. But first I ask: +what+ world?
I don't really know of any "programs" persay though. Things like the
Kama Sutra do talk about _both_ people's pleasure. And, there's
Tantra, which is excellent for teaching staying power.
=Being= power, more accurately. Tantra is about far more
than just sex and refined forms of gratification: a tantric
experience is one of erotic =being= rather than wham, bam
=doing=. The central event isn't an event at all- it's the time
of arousal, prolonged indefinitely, the savoring of the Other.
Tantra is the endless (well, prolonged) re-use of life energies
in a contemplative state. Tantric fucking is a state of being,
with the orgasm being the least of the experience. Tantric lovers
are drawn 'endlessly' in on one another and feed one another.
This is very different from the 'consumption' model of lovemaking,
with its ultimate sadness. (See my bit about resources, above,
for a loose analogy.)
Does any of this ring bells out there? Are their folk on the list who
without necessarily going for the whole FS package (whatever that might
be), nonetheless feel that in the bedroom it offers huge potential to
simply increase the guy's staying time and application to his devoted?
Well, I'm not sure how I feel about "female supremacy only in the
bedroom" (which I realise isn't exactly what you mean). That's more
"femdom." However, there's no rule that everyone into female
supremacy has to be mega political about it. For some it's just a
deeply held belief that somewhat colors day to day life in the home.
That's fine.
Cool.
(Sez I, somewhat mega political meself ; )
Peace :)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:32:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-Id: <199607252332.TAA11579@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:39 PM 7/25/96 -0700, Dee-Ann wrote:
I have met quite a number of men who seek to serve a woman or women in
general in one way or another. It's quite amazing to see just how
many there are who want to do this. However, I must question the
sincerity of some of them, who seem more interested in reality in
finding a woman who will get them off than actually doing anything for
one.
But, still, there are quite a large number of men who want to serve
women. My hope is that as "alternative lifestyles" (e.g. BDSM, etc.)
become more acceptable among the general public, these men will feel
more comfortable letting it be know that they are submissive. I think
a lot of people would be shocked to see just how many men _don't_ fit
the "man of the house" role at home.
Dee-Ann- Of course, I can't resist adding my 2 cents here :)
You're right, it all depends on the mindset and attitude of the individual,
and most men are egocentrically-based, i.e. I want mine and I want it
now...you go get your own. There are some sincere men out there, however,
who believe that service to women is a deep calling. I know for me, it's
just the way life should be lived to attain happiness and fulfillment.
I've had some interesting conversations with people about my desire to serve
and please women. Most of them either don't believe me or others just can't
fathom why one would have these desires. My simple answer to them is that
it gives me great pleasure (not the sexual kind) to nurture, support, and
yes even sacrifice (while maintaining my own identity) to make a woman's
life better and more fulfilling. For example, I will soon be learning some
personal services (manicure/pedicure) to better please and pamper. To bring
pleasure and enjoyment is my greatest satisfaction, and to know that my
efforts are cherised and appreciated is my reward.
I'm not sure where these feelings were born. Perhaps from my family
upbringing, I was the youngest of six and tried to please my Mom in order to
compensate for some older "problem" siblings. Maybe another source was my
relative lack of
superficial beauty, so to attract women I had to be extremely attentive and
had to put a lot of effort and thought into the relationship for it to succeed.
To pick up on an earlier thread, I know that my service is cherised even
more because of the fact that I'm not a doormat, but rather a strong
independent person, that has made a conscious choice to give my gift to
those who are deserving of it.
Certainly alternative lifestyles like BDSM allows some to better define
their roles. I know for me BDSM has provided a vehicle, a way of channeling
my feelings and passions. The blurring of the gender lines and the changing
roles of women and men in society that have occurred over the past 20 years,
can make
even the most astute observer a bit confused at times. "Should I be a macho
man? a sensitive man? a distant man? a submissive man? a jungle man? should
I be a man's man?" Although I like to think I'm all those things, within
BDSM I can
manifest my submissive and serving passions without guilt. I know who I am
there and what is expected of me.
Regards to all, Paul
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:58:17 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Women Pay More
Message-ID: <31F6E2C9.4C7F@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee Anns' post stimulated some thoughts I'd like to share:
. But how strange it is that while women
typically earn less than men--some data even put the figure at 58%
less-they frequently pay more than men for the same products and
services.
When time off for pregnancy leave, and womens shorter time on the job
than men is factored out, the wage is much closer. Great advances have
been made in recent years,
Women are less likely than
men to negotiate on car prices and some salespeople naturally take
advantage of that.
It's not really fair to blame men for a womans reluctance to negotiate.
If they are not assertive enough to drive a hard bargain, it's their
responsebility and their money. The salesperson, many of whom are women
by the way, naturally try to get the best price. Haggle ladies, it pays
off!
"That's just the way it is in
most salons." But surely the same products are used. And the same
skills are required. And through observation, men's haircuts today
take just as long as women's.
Not really. Most women have much longer hair than men, and it takes the
stylist alot more time. Time is money, and if it takes an extra 45
minuites, it's gonna cost more. It only makes sense.
A man's shirt costs in the region of $1.90 to be
laundered; a woman's plain cotton shirt runs about $3.50. It seems
women's prices are based on assumptions that women's wear is more
fancy and has "more trim." Whatever that means.
It could mean mowt women wear silk, or more delicate fabrics with fancier
trim that takes more hand working or requires a more careful process.
Most men wear cotton dress shirts, and they are pretty indestrucatable.
However, if they charge more for the same service, thats wrong.
When women buy a
new outfit, alterations are rarely, if ever, included in the price.
But for men all kinds of alterations will be made, and free of charge.
Not in my town, I usually have to pay extra for alterations, and I buy
alot of suites.
On the cosmetics, can't comment there, don't know much about prices, but
there are discount places where you can get some great prices.
On life insurance you save about 25%, but women are like sea turtles,
they live forever! (another of Gods' little favoratisms, always did like
YOU best) Men die sooner so they get the same money out of them, in a
shorter period of time. Also car insurance favors women, since your not
as agressive on the highway.
Discrimination is wrong, and when a clear example is found, speak up,
haggle up, and don't take it! Vote with your feet and find an insurance
agent who understands your needs! (By the way I work for snoopy, you know
"Get ___ it pays")
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:51:56 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: If you are interested...
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960724235156.00690588@popd.ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If any of you lovely people are interested in recieving the ULC newsletter
(text file) or my latest essay for SMC via email, email me privately and ask. :)
Laura Goodwin
"The heart has its reasons which reason doesn't know."
(Pascal)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 04:40:40 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Physical appearance and politics.
Message-Id: <199607260240.EAA11632@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
aren't. "All muscle, no brians." And, personally, in a debate I
actually listen to what's being said.
Statements and actions say a whole lot more about a person than their
phsyical appearance in my opinion. That's why TV is such a threat to
politics. Would e.g. Ronald Raygun have been elected president if it
weren't for TV and its pervasiveness? TV turns politics into short
snippets of information and beautiful people. When will Kate Moss become
Ms President?
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 04:46:32 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Child support.
Message-Id: <199607260245.EAA11884@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
the US? Are the people who don't pay child support in the US still
97% men? That's a _serious_ problem. Once again, instead of arguing
How many single men with children are there compared to the number of
single women with children? You have to weigh that into the equation, or
the statistics will be seriously skewed.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 05:03:32 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Stats from outside of the U.S.A.
Message-Id: <199607260302.FAA12754@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Since Dee-Ann asked, I tried to find some stats on Anorexia in Sweden,
but the entire Sunet (Swedish university network), which provides internet
access for Swedish Universities and academic institutions, seems to
inaccessible from my ISP right now. Alta Vista did provide a few URLs that
looked interesting, so I'll try to get back to it later today.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #166
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 168
Today's Topics:
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: A new subject
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:09:49 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-Id: <199607260909.CAA16192@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:50 PM 7/25/96 -0700, you wrote:
Ray Jones wrote:
Second: Women are just as responsible for the disease as men. If men are
so stupid as to think women should have to fit certain criteria for being
desirable, then women who believe the lie are just as stupid and help to
keep the lie alive. A woman doesn't have to do it, regardless.
The causes of eating disorders are, of course, much more complex. Women are
raised to compete with one another for men. Both mothers and fathers often
perpetuate this problem. I know I was told "who will want you if you don't
lose some weight?"
I agree. My point, however was that men are also under the same pressure.
Men are also raised (even more so) to compete with one another for women.
Not only are we trained to compete with our looks and sexual prowress, but
with our physical prowress as well. How many men have wound up in battles
(sometimes to the death) for women? While this occurs among women, I don't
THINK the incidence is as high among women.
Third: Do you think men are under any less pressure to be desirable?
Women have criteria as well. To
As I said before, men's eating disorders are on the rise. There was
My disagreement (as I remember it anyway) was with what someone else said,
not what you said. I didn't even disagree with what they said, but rather
the conclusions they drew from it.
...As society gets more focused on looks, both genders are going to have
more and more problems with
That is my point. This is not a "gender-specific" issue nor is it caused by
one gender or the other. It is a "human" problem both genders suffer from. I
won't argue that its incidence is higher among women, but don't blame men
for it. It simply is not true. It is true that some men's attitudes keep it
going, but it is equally true that women's attitudes do as well. Even if the
original poster didn't say "all men", my point was that by "omitting the
fact that women are also responsible", the post would lead many to believe
that only men were responsible. 'Taint so!
guys who are beefy are assumed to be less intelligent than those who
aren't. "All muscle, no brians." And,
Sort of like the phrase, "Dumb blondes"? Both are equally untrue!
Let's face it and be realistic. Bulemia, anorexia and other related
diseases are psychological aberrations
and are "exagerrations" of normal tendencies. To blame them on men's
attitudes or anything else is ludricous.
Every factor that builds together to cause these diseases is a problem, but
I wouldn't blame it solidly on one group.
My point!
However, I'll tell you that having personally experienced attitudes on the
subject from men in my life who I thought had brains (things like, "Yeah,
well, I'd ask her out if she'd lose some weight") I wouldn't underplay
the issue either.
I've been overweight ALL OF MY LIFE (from birth). I agree with what you say,
but MY "personally experienced attitudes on the subject" from WOMEN in (and
out) of my life would give me just the opposite view if I let it. I know,
however, it is not WOMEN in general, but PEOPLE that are the problem.
It's just that the women also contribute to it, so it's really a general
attitude issue, not just a male issue.
Again, my point exactly. Almost everything you've said (as well as what
others have said) have gone to prove my point as well.
I know I've sat in a room listening to women heckle woman television stars,
people with maybe 10% body fat, saying "Look at how fat her thighs are!"
And every man is a "wimp with a 3 inch dick" according to every other guy.
(Grin) Again, it is a "human" tendency, not a "gender specific" tendency.
Not just that, but women are expected to be thin, and yet eat like everyone
else. Hence, binge/purge problems.
I don't argue that. I only argue where the fault (if there is anyone to
blame at all) lies.
I don't argue that SOME men's attitudes couldn't use "adjusting", but so
I blame them on both. ;) However, men are often the ones in control of
hiring women for television and movies, and generally the ones responsible
for the fact that the highest paid women in the film industry are the ones
with big surgery and willing to strip. If anyone has any stats on the film
industry and who does
As I've said before, this is "greed" plain and simple. The industry (and any
other industry) pays the most to those who can make them the most money.
Since the number of men and women are fairly equal (no stats to back it up),
it is fair to draw the conclusion that a good portion of the income received
comes from women as well. It matters little who's in charge. If a woman can
make more money for them, she'll be "in charge". If a woman is in charge and
she can make more money from having men strip, that's what they'll be
showing. If she makes less, she'll be out on her "rear" and men will be in
charge having women strip. They don't care who strips. They only care who's
willing to pay for it.
hiring, you're welcome to share them. I do remember hearing that it's
pretty much still a male dominated field
(at least in the US) but that it's changing. That's "some men," but awfully
powerful and influential men.
Perhaps, but I submit it is "greed" that rules the world, not men or women.
Fourth: Your statement that pregnancy shouldn't be blamed on women because
"she said she was on the pill" is ludricous. If she said she was "on the
pill", who SHOULD be blamed? Certainly not the man by himself. After all,
"No woman would tell such a lie would they?"
I don't recall her saying it shouldn't be blamed on women. I recall
her saying how some guys blame it on women, like they have nothing to
Perhaps, I read it wrong. I'm willing to concede that. I don't recall it
that way, however. I also don't recall her saying it "shouldn't be blamed on
women". I do recall, however, her saying it SHOULD be blamed on men and by
way of omission, one would conclude that is should be blamed on men and not
women. I may have misunderstood nevertheless.
How many fellows here would be willing to take a pill or get an injection
on a regular basis to help your
partners not get pregnant?
As long as my dick (excuse the crassness) still works, why not? It wouldn't
bother me. I know there are some who wouldn't feel that way, but I think
many would.
As Col. Potter would have put it so eloquently, "Horse hockey"! Because
one or more men cut off "meaningful
dialogue" (if indeed they did) to make a "blanket statment" including all
men is just as unfair. I'm here.
I'm open
for "meaningful" as well as "meaningless" dialogue. I'm sure I'm not the
only man so ready.
I think you're overreacting. When people try to turn a forum into a hostile
environment, attacking folks right
and left, that _does_ cut down on real discussion. And, once again, I don't
think she was referring to all
men.
I disagree. I may have over-reacted, but I was only trying to be facetious
and witty while making a point. I certainly wasn't hostile (IMHO). I don't
see that I (though others may have) attacked her. I don't even know her nor
do I remember who posted it. I only disagreed with the conclusions being
drawn by her. Neither am I trying to cut down on or discourage real
discussion. I'm willing to concede that she was not referring to "all men".
That was a mistake for me to have inferred such a thing. My point was that
"men" (whether all, some, many, or any) were not the problem. Human beings
are the problem. Some do happen to be men. I'm even willing to concede that
a greater number of men than women may be a good part of the problem. I'm
just as willing to concede it might be the other way around or neither. The
point is that we're doing EVERYONE a disservice by attempting to lay blame
in one place. I would have argued just as passionately if it had been said
that "women" were the problem. That 'taint so either.
In Canada, soon any _person_ who doesn't pay child support may not be able
to get a driver's license. They
pointed out that 97% of those people are male. No, that's not all men,
especially since not all men need to be
I don't disagree. To begin with (though I have no statistics) it is only
common sense that more men than women are ordered to pay child support in
the first place. If the greatest percentage of those not paying it WERE NOT
male, I'd be very surprised. It is not strictly a male characteristic,
however, to avoid responsibility for one's debts or problems. Again, it is a
human characteristic. Statistics are always flawed and skewed depending on
the way the data is collected.
If the majority of those ordered to pay child support were women, then the
majority of those not paying would (MORE THAN LIKELY) be women.
I'd like to see what percentage of people who should be paying child
support don't.
Fine, but what has that to do with the premise that 97% of those who don't
pay child support are male? That's already been explained.
approximately. Is $1 billion x 10 in child support not being paid in the
US? Are the people who don't pay
child support in the US still 97% men? That's a _serious_ problem.
I would hazard a guess that the dollar figure is much, much higher though I
have no idea of the real number. I would believe that your % figure is also
correct, but for the reasons I've already stated.
Once again, instead of arguing who's to blame, why don't we talk about
solutions?
The voice of reason! How refreshing! Don't get me wrong. I'm not (in the
least) saying that others have not shown the same voice of reason. I'm just
making a comment.
Thanks for your quite astute observations Dee-Ann says the man "sucking up"
to the "list owner". (grin)
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:57:20 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-ID:
Dear Magnus and everyone else
In message <199607260402.GAA15332@mailbox.swip.net,
Many sexologists claim that a way for men to learn to control
themselves is through masturbation. This is done by repeatedly getting as
close to orgasm as possible without actually climaxing.
Yes that it is one recognised route. It raises an interesting point in
the world of fd/fs. If you go down this route it implies that a lady is
willing to allow a man to play with himself.
In some stereotypes (not probably the FS/Fd one) like traditional
accounts of marriage, divorce has been the end product of hubby playing
with himself. In at least some fantasy accounts of fd, the man is
emphatically prohibited on pain of death (or much whipping). Then there
are those guys kept in chastity belts and so cannot do this anyway.
Of course you put in the caveat "without climax" and your idea
presumably assumes this is a technique which the guy is being requested
to develop.
Still we wonder whether it is a route which has worked for some on the
list. It is one we have not specifically used but F will have to give it
some thought. What F does use is the technique of dressing R in the
items that she knows arouses him and then making him wait. At first he
simply could not, but gradually he has learnt to survive nights so
attired and be ready to serve in the morning. This BTW is one solution
to a simple yet classic dilemma which we wonder if others share: one
partner is habitually keen at night, the other's preference is the
morning. This has been another incentive in our case for training the
male in patience. A very clever item has proved to be a piece of
rubberwear which he can get into on his own, but which he requires help
to get out of. Very much his own fault if his enthusiasm gets him so
dressed and F plays the waiting game.
---------------------------
On another tack, for all those who have pointed to the validity of
relations beyond the simple boy/girl we have tended to speak of, point
taken. In our case we are very happy as an f+m but also the facts of
life mean that where we live (or is it our reclusiveness?(you think we
joke?)), our friends have all seemed unable to cope with even talking
about this subject (Fs), let alone any variety of relational
configurations. We do not have any desire to vary our own relationship
but in our ideal world we would love to know socially a far wider
spectrum of choices. For that reason this newsgroup is appreciated, we
keep kicking ourselves:"look, it can't be real, there really are other
folk to whom this matters, AND they seem like nice folk who are not the
DEVILWORSHIPPERS that detractors would make them out to be". Our
religious bent is very keen to become confident that you lot are on the
side of the 'good' (however you configure that) and not the 'bad'. Maybe
that will sound strange to some of you, but we know only too well that
we are surrounded by faces for whom the destination of those who speak
of these matters (and so presumably and sadly ourselves) is hellfire.
Beleive it or not, some are really valued as friends. The evident
interest from folk like Spirit Wind and Coyote Sings and many others
that these are subjects for the good of life has been very cheering.
The sad fact around here does seem to be (and FS presumably needs an
agenda to develop this) is that even liberally minded folk are shit
scared of talking about sex. R can narrate two true instances of this.
Nearly ten years ago a friend got married, on a visit beforehand R
showed him a toy catalogue and said choose anything you like for your
wedding. He chose a harness which was duly delivered on wedding day. A
few weeks later it came back through the post with a very hoighty letter
from his lovely wife and our friend too, 'they had no need of these
things'. Wow, were we put in our place. We still speak and even
occasionally sleep under the same roof but we have never been able to
forget the level of lost communication this showed and the guy has never
said 'oh, I am sorry. what a mess I made of that' (the expensive harness
was'nt wasted, it just means we have got two which can be handy).
Another couple are a lovely partnership and both have very broad
interests and are very politically sensitive. On one occasion we both
showed him Robert's leather chastity belt. His face made F's year. he
was just so embarrased and subjects had to hastily move on and it was'nt
as if the context to bring the subject up had not been established. The
poor guy simply looked terrrified.
What we are trying to get at on this sidetrack may be that peculiar
culture of ours "No sex, please we're British", but we do find it a
quandrary: if suppression has'nt worked (and we do not think it ever
did), neither does: "sweep it under the table, do anything you like but
don't talk about it" liberalism which is what we seem to have got all
around us in this country (Tony "I will do anything to get elected"
Blair's treatment of gays in the military (see Scotsgay Magazine July
1996)). Put crudely, we can still imagine scenarios where if some in our
town read this, so far from polite acceptance, it might be graffiti on
the house (and this is not Northern Ireland). It would be nice to be
proven wrong but we don't want to put it to the test. We simply go as
far as leaving the books on the bookshelves. Can fs offer us a decent
way forward to make the subject acceptable in polite conversation whilst
stopping folk from getting hurt? And now we are going to close this post
by throwing out another wobbly:
as fs can demonstrate to both of us its potential to kill sexual
abuse and hurt whilst endorsing sexual pleasure and education,
it will give us something to sign up to (and if incredibly it
can bring Jesus Christ on side (we have given up on St Paul
(Romans 6:20-23 could hardly be brought round to this (go on
someone, try) and Romans 9:19-21 was something that R pretty
early on in his realtime theological studies found anathmatic)),
then perhaps we might hope once again to enjoy rubber parties,
chase steam trains and meet you lot in the eternal knees up
(otherwise known to us as heavenly worship).
And to Dee-Ann and Patricia, by raising this, we do not want to get into
any fights with folk over religion, that is the worst thing around, we
are simply casting around (on a quest which may be hopeless) for a
hopeful solution to the dilemma otherwise known as life and death.
Bye for now, take care (and to the poor lad told to find all those
Tantric URL's, you do get given some jobs).
--
fiona and robert forsythe
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 96 12:20:00 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607261020.MAA27800@mn6.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:57:20 +0100, robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
In message <199607260402.GAA15332@mailbox.swip.net,
Many sexologists claim that a way for men to learn to control
themselves is through masturbation. This is done by repeatedly getting as
close to orgasm as possible without actually climaxing.
Yes that it is one recognised route. It raises an interesting point in
the world of fd/fs. If you go down this route it implies that a lady is
willing to allow a man to play with himself.
In this case the end will have justify the means. It could be done
under the supervision of the woman, to make sure that he doesn't
ejaculate.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 04:16:48 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-Id: <199607261116.EAA26136@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:22 PM 7/25/96 -0700, you wrote:
Dee-Ann wrote, responding to the Forsythes
robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
My 'model' (it's hardly that, but all I can think of) is one of concentric
circles, and views the Feminine as central / basic / enduring and the
masculine as peripheral and fleeting. In an open ecological system with
forever limitless resources, the (male) periphery is where the growth is,
the cutting edge. But in a system of limited resources, a closed system
where everything has to be used over and over (eventually), it's the
Feminine center that claims the resources and energy needed for survival at
worst and a life of sufficiency and balance at best. To rely on either the
periphery or the center forever is absurd, but the last 10,000
years or perhaps less have been a time of decidedly peripheral, masculine
outlook with its assumption of limitless resources and space, now discredited.
Very astute (and I believe true) observation. For once, I have little
argument. (grin)
The humans take < Earth gives pattern has failed and the whole human
_oikos_ is about to collapse on self,
I wrote a short story about 20 years ago entitled Terminal Patient (I think)
with much the same plot.
meaning toward the center, toward the Feminine, toward a point of
sustainability. The masculine features and qualities of human life,
including perhaps men themselves, are about to become very marginal indeed.
Control, consumption, competition are about to become very obsolete
behaviors and about as fashionable as genocide. The survival behaviors will
be those of cooperation, conservation and community.
Guess who's been doing more of what? ;
Hmmmmm..., women? (grin) Again, I agree. In general, women are mediators and
compromisers while men are not.
(Industrial societies did have the choice of a balanced response to the end
of the 'endless resources' fantasy: the Feminine response of investment in
renewable resources and energy and care of the Earth, and the very
satisfyingly masculine 'Star Trek' response of investing in a radical
expansion of the human habitat -itself ultimately a band-aid, as any good
Klingon will be happy to point out. We may still have those choices
I agree, but find your reference to 'Star Trek' to be not completely in
order if you refer to the "series" as a whole (including The Next
Generation, Voyager and DS9 anyway). If you refer only to the original
series, then I'd have to go along iwth you.
up the road- I believe we do/will- but in the short run we must deal with
the fact we have squandered the
better part of our 'best' century in war and the pursuit of heroic, manly
fantasies and the toys that are
their fetishes. Talk about
Agreed.
My view, my very Long View of how it unfolds in the direction of Feminine
authority, which will in very few particulars replicate the 'jack-booted,'
pyramid-building male model.
that the stereotype of the feminine (sensitivity, care, nurturing) might
have more relevance to the
planet's health today than has been allowed in the past, it might help
assist in the triumpth of the person (all persons);
Bravo!
Indeed. If everyone looked at their fellow humans as other people, with
needs, strengths, weaknesses, and
dreams, instead of as competitors or prey, the world would be a happier place.
Dream on! It would be nice, though.
Tantra is about far morethan just sex and refined forms of gratification: a
tantric experience is one of erotic =being= rather than wham, bam =doing=.
The central event isn't an event at all- it's the time of
arousal, prolonged indefinitely, the savoring of the Other.
Yum!
Tantra is the endless (well, prolonged) re-use of life energies in a
contemplative state. Tantric fucking is a state of being, with the orgasm
being the least of the experience. Tantric lovers are drawn 'endlessly' in on
one another and feed one another.
I've always contended that "orgasm" while immensely enjoyable is the least
enjoyable aspect of sex. It is just that after so much of the good stuff, it
seems one "has to". I like the caressing, the loving, the kissing, the
touching, the stimulation, etc. the best.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #168
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 169
Today's Topics:
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: A new subject, Serving
Re: A new subject, Serving
Thin Is In
Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: Thin Is In
Re: Article: There Oughta Be a Law
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: A new subject, Serving
Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable I
Re: A new subject
Hilary and Morphine
Something I wrote (sorry for length)
Re: Hilary and Morphine
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 06:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607261307.GAA16290@netcom5.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 6329
The Forsythes wrote (in part):
In some stereotypes (not probably the FS/Fd one) like traditional
accounts of marriage, divorce has been the end product of hubby playing
with himself. In at least some fantasy accounts of fd, the man is
emphatically prohibited on pain of death (or much whipping). Then there
are those guys kept in chastity belts and so cannot do this anyway.
Still we wonder whether it is a route which has worked for some on the
list.
I must =really= be a pervert: I wasn't aware there was any other
way for a male to live an authentic FS life except to give up his
sexual choices to Her, period, 'Her' being either an actual woman
or the Female principle in general. Since I began thinking about
this I have always assumed that all orgasms belong to 'Her' and that
the entire sex and reproductive business was woman's work. Thus my
view of male chastity and female gratification as the norm, of
Mom & pop intercourse as rather rare and oral sex as the normal male
offering to the woman, and thus my en-theos-iasm (or en-thea- )
for Tantra. I have been 'metered' (without the gear) by one woman or
another for longer than most of you would believe, and most of my
dialogue (until I got here and discovered het women) has been with
Separatists and Female-primary women (whom I have come to really
love at some great depth). Erotic tension or the clonic,
prostate ('anal") orgasm has become far more fulfilling than
phallic gratification (and I would be terrified if called upon to
actually fuck). For me it's not quite a fantasy, even if it is
always a challenge, a gift of some value to Her in Her several forms.
Now what is surprising is not that I offer managed chastity to Her
for most of my recent life, but that no other male here seems to be
practicing it for extended periods. I had thought post-phallic males
were fairly common (among FD/FS folk), but now I wonder if I really
am a distinct stripe in the FS rainbow, all by myself. Is it really
"no asceticism please, we're postmodern?" ;p
We're more diverse here than we thought.
(Oh: Men: medical note: don't try this -chastity- at home or without
having gotten the annual poke by the MD. At a 'certain age' prolonged
sexual continence can be life-threatening. Prostate cancer is not
pretty, and definitely not worth the Tantric buzz.)
In our case we are very happy as an f+m but also the facts of
life mean that where we live (or is it our reclusiveness?(you think we
joke?)), our friends have all seemed unable to cope with even talking
about this subject (Fs), let alone any variety of relational
configurations. We do not have any desire to vary our own relationship
but in our ideal world we would love to know socially a far wider
spectrum of choices.
The north of England? Hmmmmmmm: my far cousins (your neighbors)
are all like you, a little quiet about these things. It =is=
your reclusiveness, or just as accurately, theirs. Some of the
strangest ads I have ever seen come from there and from the Border.
You're all out there, all seething and abubble, but no one's
letting on.
But then I live in a large city and have similar problem with
other aspects of FS. No one minds the kink- especially not at church-
we wallow in unrepentent 'brokenness' and Gnostic priests as a sign
of inclusiveness, but my EcoFeminism gets in the way of dialog with
the rest of the (white) community. I am widely suspected of being
pro-Choice and perhaps even a liberal (despite my pickup truck).
'I feel your pain,' the Man said.
Beleive it or not, some are really valued as friends. The evident
interest from folk like Spirit Wind and Coyote Sings and many others
that these are subjects for the good of life has been very cheering.
It really =is= possible to live with all the pieces at least
on the table. Thank you for the kind words- know that your
outlook and words as just as much appreciated.
The sad fact around here does seem to be (and FS presumably needs an
agenda to develop this) is that even liberally minded folk are shit
scared of talking about sex. "No sex, please we're British"
I live the obverse, but it's just as vexing. ;6
as fs can demonstrate to both of us its potential to kill sexual
abuse and hurt whilst endorsing sexual pleasure and education,
it will give us something to sign up to (and if incredibly it
can bring Jesus Christ on side (we have given up on St Paul
(Romans 6:20-23 could hardly be brought round to this (go on
someone, try) and Romans 9:19-21 was something that R pretty
early on in his realtime theological studies found anathmatic)),
Paul: a real embarrassment is our Paul. I gave up on him
and his e-mail a long time ago (except for the passage in
Corinthians about Love and several insightful one-liners about
Grace). He might be an average to bright theologian, but is a
wipeout as a human being (and thus the object of Grace). Since
my own experience parallels his
Certainly I come up with very different answers. I'll pass
on your challenge. I'm in enough trouble as here as it is.
then perhaps we might hope once again to enjoy rubber parties,
chase steam trains and meet you lot in the eternal knees up
(otherwise known to us as heavenly worship).
Oh go ahead now: 'Let us keep the Feast,' as the liturgy says.
Bye for now, take care (and to the poor lad told to find all those
Tantric URL's, you do get given some jobs).
Oh, I've already got them: it's the editing that involves the
heavy lifting. That, and the fact I can't see web pages except
via Lynx on a 2400b modem and a mono screen.
I am the world's last DOS user, which is why Dee is punishing me.
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:07:44 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-ID: <31F90970.3B74@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
and french braiding. I have really long hair and for business meetings
and over the summer I really need my hair done up...and I enjoy having
my hair brushed. French braiding always looks like your so cared
for..because it is really hard to do it yourself.
Patricia
stu wrote:
Paul wrote:
For example, I will soon be learning some personal services (manicure/pedicure) to better please and pamper.
Some other suggestions along those lines. 1. reflexology, using points
on the hands, feet, & body to correct energy imbalances. This can be
followed by a good footrub. Learn massage,its a great way to release
tension in your partner. Its really rewarding to feel the tightness &
tension leave.
Have fun
steve
--
MZê
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-Id: <199607261615.MAA15048@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Patricia and stu- Thanks for the suggestions. Sounds like I'm going be
busy. I'll have to check out my local library to see what I can learn about
these things. I wonder if they have a Maid's Handbook? *wink*
FYI, if anyone else chimed in with a reply, I may have missed it. For some
reason the autoresponder here unsubscribed me early this morning. Regards, Paul
At 11:07 AM 7/26/96 -0700, Noble wrote:
and french braiding. I have really long hair and for business meetings
and over the summer I really need my hair done up...and I enjoy having
my hair brushed. French braiding always looks like your so cared
for..because it is really hard to do it yourself.
Patricia
stu wrote:
Paul wrote:
For example, I will soon be learning some personal services
(manicure/pedicure) to better please and pamper.
Some other suggestions along those lines. 1. reflexology, using points
on the hands, feet, & body to correct energy imbalances. This can be
followed by a good footrub. Learn massage,its a great way to release
tension in your partner. Its really rewarding to feel the tightness &
tension leave.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 15:18:51 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Thin Is In
Message-ID: <960726191851_101342.2030_GHW69-1@CompuServe.COM
I thought this may be interesting, it happened a month or so ago, but I think it
was a *European* thing, so Ill just mention it in anyway.
The *Big Boss* of a major UK advertiser in Vogue withdrew their patronage due to
the prevalence of *waif* models currently appearing in that particular
publication. Wow ! I thought - good news ! However, reading further, I was
appalled that the *Even Bigger Big Boss* and European head of the advertiser
involved vetoed the ban and ordered reinstatement of advertising.
The good thing was that the original instigator was a man - the bad news is that
the person who reversed the decision was a man !
I suppose that since not many men read Vogue (although I must admit after many
hours spent in the radiotherapy waiting room with Hilary, reading copies of
Vogue from 1966 to 1988, I developed a deep *admiration* for those tall and
haughty *normal* models - what man in this group would not!), it is up to the
women to make a stand by refusing to buy magazines that blatantly impose the
*Thin Is In* attitude in their publications.
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 15:29:31 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-ID: <960726192931_101342.2030_GHW51-1@CompuServe.COM
Ok chaps - this is what its all about :
If your Lady says you dont come - YOU DONT COME !
See - its as easy as that !
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:32:20 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thin Is In
Message-ID: <31F94774.B33@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Men who love women don't want them to get sick and die just to fulfill
some fantasy of theirs...they would rather kill their fantasy, then have
the woman they love die....IMNSHO
Patricia
OhEadhra wrote:
I thought this may be interesting, it happened a month or so ago, but I think it
was a *European* thing, so Ill just mention it in anyway.
The *Big Boss* of a major UK advertiser in Vogue withdrew their patronage due to
the prevalence of *waif* models currently appearing in that particular
publication. Wow ! I thought - good news ! However, reading further, I was
appalled that the *Even Bigger Big Boss* and European head of the advertiser
involved vetoed the ban and ordered reinstatement of advertising.
The good thing was that the original instigator was a man - the bad news is that
the person who reversed the decision was a man !
I suppose that since not many men read Vogue (although I must admit after many
hours spent in the radiotherapy waiting room with Hilary, reading copies of
Vogue from 1966 to 1988, I developed a deep *admiration* for those tall and
haughty *normal* models - what man in this group would not!), it is up to the
women to make a stand by refusing to buy magazines that blatantly impose the
*Thin Is In* attitude in their publications.
Dennis (t.o.m)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Article: There Oughta Be a Law
Message-Id: <199607261957.MAA00213@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2639
Ray Jones wrote:
I don't disagree you, but I disagree that it is done BECAUSE they are women.
Salepeople will take advantage of ANYONE they can. They take advantage of
men just as fast. I've never got a good deal on a car because (like some
women), I know absolutely nothing about cars. They don't take advantage of
me because I'm a man. They take advantage of me because they can. The same
is true of women.
I don't insert my own commentary when I post an article from a
magazine, because I find it confuses the issue. However, my point
would have been that women need to start negotiating on big purchases
like cars, where it is customary to haggle over the price. You often
have a lot of good points, but you have this tendency to assume that
everything the women here say is meant to be, "Those men, they only
put us down." These discussions aren't a competition over who's right
and wrong. :) They should be focused on solutions. The solution,
here, is for women to start haggling. It's nervewracking the first
time you do it, I remember trying to haggle over a blanket in Mexico
as a teenager. But, really, once you're used to it then it can be
fun, and you can come away with a nice sense of pride for having saved
yourself a bit of cash.
The average woman (if there is one) has more hair than the average man. It
takes more time and effort to cut and style. It takes longer to do it. More
products are used. Regardless, I question anyone paying that much for a
haircut. I walk in, sit down, walk out 15 or 20 minutes later. The barber
cuts a little off the top, shaves the sideburns, sprays a little water (or
whatever it is) on my hair, combs it, vacuums me off and takes off the
protective sheet. It costs me $5.00 and I walk out the door. I make no
appointment and I seldom wait. I'd cut my own hair or let it grow before I'd
pay such ridiculous prices for a haircut whether I was a man or a woman.
Right now, there are a lot of women with very short hair (at least in
the US and Canada). There are a lot of men with long hair. There are
a lot of men with fancy multilayered cuts. If anything, the only
major differences between the sexes when it comes to hair care today
is that women may want more drying and whatnot afterwards, and
mousse. However, I'm not sure I'd agree with that either.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:01:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-ID: <31F94E66.167E@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
YUP!!!
Patricia
OhEadhra wrote:
Ok chaps - this is what its all about :
If your Lady says you dont come - YOU DONT COME !
See - its as easy as that !
Dennis (t.o.m)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:10:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607262010.NAA26288@netcom.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 925
Dennis wrote:
Ok chaps - this is what its all about :
If your Lady says you dont come - YOU DONT COME !
See - its as easy as that !
Thank you, Dennis-
That's what all my hemming and hawing over three long posts was
all about.
And if you 'go with' / 'relax into' the experience, get some meaning
from it, and She and you make a habit of it, then you've got Tantra
Lite. I will add your post to the resource list that Dee is having me
compile. :D
Peace
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 16:09:55 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving
Message-ID: <960726200955_101342.2030_GHW97-1@CompuServe.COM
Paul wrote :
There are some sincere men out there, however, who believe that service to
women is a deep calling. I know for me, it'sjust the way life should be
lived to attain happiness and fulfillment.
Paul,
dont think *why* - go for it ! You will find that there are a great many men
in this group (and in the world) who hold themselves in vey high esteem
(Me included
- a completely normal attitude ! - enjoy the pleasure it will give you !
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia: More Reliable I
Message-Id: <199607262032.NAA00275@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 975
sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
Are your own lives so empty that you must asshole-buddy
penis-bond HERE? The statistics were never the issue,
the issue was a social imbalance that exists, and what
you have done with your argument, is prove that the
poster is 100% on-target.
I vote for banishment. I don't want to read anymore of
your nastiness. You are obviously a victim of testosterone
poisoning....or maybe, you just need to get laid. Or maybe
you have BMS, (Bullshit Male Syndrome.)
Please, it's already been dealt with. This isn't a competition, let's
not make things nasty in either direction.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 16:49:53 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re: A new subject
Message-ID: <960726204953_101342.2030_GHW90-1@CompuServe.COM
Patricia wrote :
as long as you don't try to stuff it in a building..
or attach it to a dogma...or make it an "ism"..
and it doesn't create monsters and places to scare the children, like
devils and hell...well then
spirituality is o.k. by me.
Patricia
YES ! - I LOOOOOVE that Lady !
As an Irish Londoner, I am sick to my stomach of the *troubles* in
Northern Ireland. Religion (in all contexts), DIVIDES, pitting people
against people.
If you live your life caring about all creatures (even the fly !),
respecting their right to take part in the overall struggle to survive,
then although you may not understand *the meaning of life*, you are at
least giving them a chance !
I feel that the majority of *humans* exhibit an immense vanity by
assuming immortality (previous lives, life after death etc.), we are
all *stardust*, like plants and fish and all - we die - and that is
that ! (Coyote - please convince me otherwise - you are the only person
who could !)
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 17:59:09 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Hilary and Morphine
Message-ID: <960726215908_101342.2030_GHW80-1@CompuServe.COM
Not that I expect anyone on this group should know - BUT :
Ref : Hilary
I have tried to get Net information on *morphine withdrawal* , but all I get is
a lot of information regarding *Morphine* as a pop group.
Hilary has reduced her morphine (by prescription), from a syringe driver to MST.
She is feeling VERY low at the moment - any ideas !
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:11:29 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Something I wrote (sorry for length)
Message-ID: <31F96CC1.5437@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
JUST ONE OF THE BEASTS
by Patricia
This is a huge forest. The trees surrounding us resemble Redwoods.
They are not Redwoods, however, they are Chilean Larchwood trees and
some of them stand 240 feet tall. Many of their trunks are fifteen feet
wide, three of me toe to head. They grow very slowly. They have a
natural lifespan of 3,000 years. They were here before Christ.
Some of the lower limbs have broken off, just enough to make a raft.
The river is very inviting. We make our raft and push off downstream.
Our laughing and splashing disturbs a huge bird on the far shore. We
are startled into silence by it's size. The bird stands nearly four
feet tall. It takes off. It's bluish grey body soars over us. It has
a seven foot wingspan. It's head is drawn back proudly. We stare in
awe at the graceful flight of the Bonin Night Heron. The splashing of
Yellow Fin Trout beside our raft brings us back to reality.
There is suddenly a cacophony of bird songs. They are everywhere,
dozens of Eskimo Curlews with their long, slender beaks standing next to
the chicken-like Heath Hen. A brilliantly colored Carolina parakeet
sings up ahead. We float further downstream to the ocean. Ahead of us,
an Eastern Native Cat is climbing up and down the many trees that dot
the shore chasing a White Bearded Spider Monkey. But the monkey won't
be caught, she is much too quick. Looking on warily, at all this ruckus
and commotion, from the distance is a pair of Florida Key Deer, they are
a monogamous species of deer most experts agree. They are eating wheat
grass next to a settlement of what look like giant penguins, but are
really Great Auks. What a trip!
Coming to the edge of the forest we see a pack of Southern Rocky
Mountain Wolves finishing lunch. We are almost to the ocean and napping
on shore is a giant Stellar Sea Cow. We stop and stare until a great
commotion of splashing from the ocean grabs our attention. A pod of
Atlantic Grey Whales is surfacing for air. This great mammal has a
language and a brain as big as humans.
I wake up from this dream slowly trying to hold on to it, like you do a
good dream. I think of my granddaughter and how I will take her to see
this place some day.
and then with a great stab of sadness I remember:
The Chilean Larchwood Tree is EXTINCT, they were killed by pesticides.
The Bonin Night Heron is EXTINCT, it's habitat destroyed by spreading
civilization.
The Yellow Fin Trout is EXTINCT, it was killed by overfishing.
The Carolina Parakeet is EXTINCT, killed so it's feathers could adorn
hats.
The Eskimo Curlew is EXTINCT, hunted for it's meat.
The Heath Hen is EXTINCT, hunted by men for sport and pleasure.
The Eastern Native Cat is EXTINCT, hunted to the last one for their fur.
The White Bearded Spider Monkey is EXTINCT, the forest which was it's
home cut down for lumber to build homes for homosapiens.
The Florida Key Deer is EXTINCT, hunted down for it's meat.
The Great AUK is EXTINCT, all of its eggs and young were collected.
The Sourthern Rocky Mountain Wolf and the Cascade Mountain Wolf are
EXTINCT, because men fear predators.
The Stellar Sea Cow is EXTINCT, wiped out by hunters.
The Altantic Grey Whale is EXTINCT, wiped of the face of the Earth,
literally, by whalers.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:15:48 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary and Morphine
Message-ID: <31F96DC4.3F2D@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
you need to find amino acids that produce serotonin...
lots of vegies and fruit do, but I am not sure which...try
ALTA VISTA and put in AMINO ACIDS and if you get nothing there
try serotonin..and I am not sure that spelling is correct.
I know the body produces a chemical like morphine..but not addictive
ever heard of runners high...or when you get cut or something and you go
into shock and don't feel it...it is one by-product your body produces
to get you over the hump...not the shock..but the pain blunter..
Patricia
OhEadhra wrote:
Not that I expect anyone on this group should know - BUT :
Ref : Hilary
I have tried to get Net information on *morphine withdrawal* , but all I get is
a lot of information regarding *Morphine* as a pop group.
Hilary has reduced her morphine (by prescription), from a syringe driver to MST.
She is feeling VERY low at the moment - any ideas !
Dennis (t.o.m)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #169
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 170
Today's Topics:
Re: Hilary and Morphine
Re: Hilary and Morphine
Re: Hilary and Morphine
Re: Introduction - Mailena
Re: A new subject, Serving....submission and adoration
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: Introduction - Mailena
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Spirituality not a Turn off
by the way
Religious people talking about sex
jThin is in
Extinct
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Re: i had to look
Re : Thin is in
Re: Help and Femuscle
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary and Morphine
Message-Id: <199607262225.PAA14296@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1442
Dennis asked:
I have tried to get Net information on *morphine withdrawal* , but all I
get is a lot of information regarding *Morphine* as a pop group.
Hilary has reduced her morphine (by prescription), from a syringe driver
to MST. She is feeling VERY low at the moment - any ideas !
Search on the words 'abuse' and 'recovery' and (less likely) heroin.
I'm thinking mainly of newsgroups with those words in them.
Also, and Dennis, this is very important- this thing is bigger than both of
you- you can't fight it alone- not you, not her, not both of you.
Find the appropriate 12 step groups and connect with them NOW- in
Greater London there are probably hundreds of individual meetings in a
given week. And there are hot lines you can call right NOW. And no, you
don't have to believe in anything, except that you need some help.
So stop staring at the screen and make some phone calls NOW.
I know a little bit about this- I am a (happlily - 11 years now)
recovering alcoholic and drug addict, and was once someone's 'Hilary.'
That I lived at all is a miracle.
Here's a great bear hug [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Now go. Call.
Peace
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary and Morphine
Message-Id: <199607262232.PAA15444@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1035
Dennis-
Patricia wrote:
you need to find amino acids that produce serotonin...
lots of vegies and fruit do, but I am not sure which...try
ALTA VISTA and put in AMINO ACIDS and if you get nothing there
try serotonin..and I am not sure that spelling is correct.
I know the body produces a chemical like morphine..but not addictive
ever heard of runners high...or when you get cut or something and you go
into shock and don't feel it...it is one by-product your body produces
to get you over the hump...not the shock..but the pain blunter..
Yes to all of that. Bananas are good or other sources of potassium.
Folic acid and your Bs.
No caffeine.
And water, more water between meals than she thinks she needs.
And not alone.
Peace.
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:43:54 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary and Morphine
Message-ID: <31F9745A.482@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
yes, and along with the lots of water .. chewable vitamin c's...
the C works with the water to pick up the residue of the drugs and get
it out of the body quicker. I used 500 mg's chewable C's every three
hours of the day....four a day over 12 hours...
C is not soluble in body fat..so it just runs right through you
too...and you can get good tasting chewable ones too...
Think of the water as the river and the C's as the boat going downstream
picking up all the debry..(?) debree (?) oh well...garbage!
Patricia
Coyote Sings wrote:
Dennis-
Patricia wrote:
you need to find amino acids that produce serotonin...
lots of vegies and fruit do, but I am not sure which...try
ALTA VISTA and put in AMINO ACIDS and if you get nothing there
try serotonin..and I am not sure that spelling is correct.
I know the body produces a chemical like morphine..but not addictive
ever heard of runners high...or when you get cut or something and you go
into shock and don't feel it...it is one by-product your body produces
to get you over the hump...not the shock..but the pain blunter..
Yes to all of that. Bananas are good or other sources of potassium.
Folic acid and your Bs.
No caffeine.
And water, more water between meals than she thinks she needs.
And not alone.
Peace.
c.s.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:22:23 -0400
From: Mailena@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Introduction - Mailena
Message-ID: <960726202222_165126704@emout12.mail.aol.com
Hi everyone
I just joined the list and felt I should introduce myself, my name is
Mailena, I am a pre-op trans (m2f), I am heavily involved (in my spare time)
with the concept of gender issues and eventhough I believe in balance, given
the gender unbalance that permeates our current world I move on the side
of the goddess rather than the Gods. I tend to strongly believe in the
concentric
circles emanating from the "mother" center rather than the "father" center
with
men being on the outer circles. If there is any interest in knowing me more
you may visit me at Mailena"s Corner:
http://members.aol.com/mani2914/private/
All
Yours,
Mailena
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:22:44 -0400
From: Mailena@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A new subject, Serving....submission and adoration
Message-ID: <960726202244_165126829@emout19.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-07-26 16:15:48 EDT, you write:
<< (Me included
women
- a completely normal attitude ! - enjoy the pleasure it will give you !
Many times one submits oneself to whomever one either loves or adores!!
Mailena
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Blake and/or Marla
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
YUP!!!
Patricia
OhEadhra wrote:
Ok chaps - this is what its all about :
If your Lady says you dont come - YOU DONT COME !
See - its as easy as that !
Dennis (t.o.m)
Absolutely correct, you've got the idea:0
Milady
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 96 22:04:52 EDT
From: Steve Collins <74363.267@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Introduction - Mailena
Message-ID: <960727020451_74363.267_HHG66-1@CompuServe.COM
I'm sorry I missed your address. Again please.
Steve
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 00:00:34 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960727040034.00696894@popd.ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
coyote sings wrote:
"no asceticism please, we're postmodern?" ;p
(Oh: Men: medical note: don't try this -chastity- at home or without
having gotten the annual poke by the MD. At a 'certain age' prolonged
sexual continence can be life-threatening. Prostate cancer is not
pretty, and definitely not worth the Tantric buzz.)
I hate to get mixed up in discussions about controlling male orgasm only
because I seem to represent a minority view...that controlling a male
slave's orgasm is a matter of minor importance.
I personally feel that as long as the guy doesn't break loose before I've
had my fun there is no problem. I personally am indifferent to whether or
not my hubby jerks off occasionally. *HE'S* the one who insists on being
locked up or in other ways controlled. He's got some kind of fetish about it.
I'm convinced that males should orgasm/ejaculate regularly, and I get off on
getting my partner off, so the idea of just using my partner and then
leaving him to hang has little charm for me (although I reserve the right to
do so, of course!).
The truth is that, in my case anyway, the real problem is getting him off.
My slave hubby needs a lot of stimulation to get there, which is why we have
such an extensive collection of "marital aids".
As to *my* orgasm, I like to orgasm frequently, and as long as my slave
obeys me and remembers his training, it's no problem. :)
Laura Goodwin
"The heart has its reasons which reason doesn't know."
(Pascal)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:10:25 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Spirituality not a Turn off
Message-ID: <31F86F61.12AA@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dee Ann wrote: Spirituality" isn't a turnoff for me, personally. What
is a turnoff
is people getting into huge fights over religion. As long as it stays
away from fights, it's perfectly cool. ;) And, after all,
spirituality and religion are intertwined, but not the same.
I couldn't agree with you more. People who argue and fight over religion
miss the whole point. It's so hard to share your beliefs in a
non-offensive way because everyone has such diverse views on the subject.
When it comes to sensuality and religion, they are definitely
intertwined. Deeply spiritual people are almost always deeply
sensual. Tantra helps us to remember that half the fun is getting there,
or should I say three-fourths the fun? To take your time, savoring every
second of bonding and service to your mate is a blessed experience. (more
blessed to give than receive)? Do unto others as you would have them do
unto you?
Husbands be subject to your wives? It's in there, look a couple verses
below wives submit to your husbands. "Submit ye one to another." That's
a lot of submission goin on !!! Makes me smile! To a husband it says
"Be thou ravished by her breasts continually" see Proverbs and Song of
Solomon. There it talks about the wife's secret garden, and the
delicious scent that blows up from the South intoxicating the lover.
Amen! The stream that flows from his lover of which he will drink deeply
strongly implying oral sex. There is no biological reason for the
clitoris, it's only purpose is for the pleasure of the female. It has no
part in the propagation of the race. God invented it, and put it there
for an obvious reason, to anyone but the uptight, repressed extremists
who are Christians only in the loosest interpretation of the word.
They can have their beliefs, and I don't bother them, but they seem
incapable of accepting and tolerating others without being abusive and
repressive all in the name of religion. God is definitely cool and so is
Jesus, and I refuse to hold it against them, because some rectal orifices
who use their name act like idiots. Dee Ann, you have really been
putting some provocative posts up lately. Thanks for all the
inspiration!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 00:26:19 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: by the way
Message-ID: <31F9C49B.796A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I told Dee Ann I had some stats on child support and the number of men
ordered by the court to pay it...however..I just have not had time to
get all my sources together and I will never again write anything
statistical here until i can present it formally....that said:
I ran across a marvelous site on the internet .. a heartening, bring a
smile to your face kind of story..about a strong woman who is doing
something to get dead beats dads to pay....the site is:
http://www.ncl.org/anr/stories/news7.htm
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:48:49 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Religious people talking about sex
Message-ID: <31F87861.158F@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Robert wrote: . Our
religious bent is very keen to become confident that you lot are on the
side of the 'good' (however you configure that) and not the 'bad.' Maybe
that will sound strange to some of you, but we know only too well that
we are surrounded by faces for whom the destination of those who speak
of these matters (and so presumably and sadly ourselves) is hellfire.
Believe it or not, some are really valued as friends. The evident
interest from folk like Spirit Wind and Coyote Sings and many others
that these are subjects for the good of life has been very cheering.
R & F, I love God and I love Sex is that so weird? Sex Sex Sex Sex
sex! See, we do talk about it! If God is real, and the bible true, and
I think it is, then the inventor of sex should be judged on what he
really says, when you read it, not your judgmental friends. You read it
for yourself in the book. Don't take anyone's word for what it means.
Like Patricia, do your own research and read it for yourself. What you
and your wife do in your own bedroom is no ones business but YOURS!
I ounce had a well meaning evangelist tell me oral sex was wrong and God
never intended for us to do "that." Then why did God make it smell sooo
good I asked. It doesn't he replied. You've got to be kidding I said.
I love everything about it! The smell, the taste, the entire experience,
and after all I'm married to her. He turned red, got very quite, and
said I just don't think it's nice. Poor man, he doesn't know what he's
missing! I didn't buy what he said for a minute. I got my bible out and
read song of Solomon, and found many references to oral sex, (implied of
course) and many other erotic statements. (hint: apple is symbol of the
male in ancient occidental culture) The people on this list do seem to be
spiritual seekers of truth. It is precious to me since that is rare in
our society. Good is peace, love, loyalty, honesty, etc. Man am I
feeling feminine all of a sudden. EEEEEEEEEEEEEmotions comin outta
nowhere! Man I gotta go.
Later
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:42:31 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: jThin is in
Message-ID: <31F884F7.4CAE@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I developed a deep *admiration* for those tall and
haughty *normal* models - what man in this group would not!), it is up to the
women to make a stand by refusing to buy magazines that blatantly impose the
*Thin Is In* attitude in their publications.
Dennis (t.o.m)
What man? This man, that's what man wouldn't! I don't like that look, and I don't
think it's normal looking. Looking like you just got out of a German concentration camp
is not sexy or appealing. To those women and girls, I have the deepest sympathy. They
are usually miserable and are filled with self loathing. It is horrible. Karen
Carpenter comes to mind.
Don't buy it! Eat what you want, exercise and be healthy but not overly thin. There
are men out there who appreciate you fuller body types, but if your ashamed and have a
downcast attitude, they won't approach you. If you don't love yourself can you be
surprised when others don't either?
Full figured women who walk proud and carry themselves with a healthy self love and
sensuality are among the sexiest women to me. Victoria Secret catalogue are BOOORING to
me. If I want ribs, I'll go to a restaurant! A lady who has to run around in the
shower to get wet has no appeal to me. I'm 6'4," and I'd hurt the poor thing! That's
just my preference because of who I am. But I have smaller, thinner guy friends who
prefer thinner gals. That's great for them. It's just not me. All my life I
have realized that I prefer the more powerfully built woman, and it's a good thing my
subconscious took good care of me, I married the finest of them all and am totally
happy.
To me "haughty" is stupid and boring and I wouldn't give "haughty" five minutes of my
time, and "normal" is anything but. When the average dress size in America is a size
twelve, how can you say these thin walking clothes racks for the fashion industry are
"normal"? Normal is a size twelve.
The fashion industry is dominated by gays who like women who look like men, no hips, no
breasts, and long and lean, and they hold them up as examples of what women should look
like? They don't like women sexually, so obviously ladies if you listen to their
standards of beauty you will hate the parts of your body that make you who you are, your
thighs, your breasts, your hips, etc. Be you, your better than any gay fantasy of what
women should look like. BTW, I'm not putting gays down here. They have a right to
their preferences too, but all I owe them is the same thing I owe any other sexual
orientation, total indifference. How a person gets off is of no concern to me. I have
my own opinions about sexual roles, and morals, and one of my beliefs is that everyone
has a right to an opinion, and their own life. Just don't expect me to endorse it. I
just don't care enough to be prejudice. I'm gonna love you as a PERSON, regardless of
your sexual bent, as long as you don't hurt others. "Love em all and let God sort em
out." Marines put it a little different. My, aren't I chatty tonight.
Peace
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:00:39 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Extinct
Message-ID: <31F88937.7619@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Maybe Patricia, when this is all over with, abusive killers and polluters
will be extinct. Sad to say, the aggressive male is far more often the
hunter and destroyer than your fair sex. "In Christ there is neither
male nor female, but we are all one in Christ" I can't see the rectal
orifice types making unto the new earth to destroy it a second time.
Someday we shall be free.
I loved your poem
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607270617.XAA05926@netcom.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Laura Goodwin wrote:
I hate to get mixed up in discussions about controlling male orgasm only
because I seem to represent a minority view...that controlling a male
slave's orgasm is a matter of minor importance.
Among the Women I talk to about this, this is the almost
universal response. This almost =elegant= indifference to
the male orgasm -which is the centerpiece of the whole male
_schtick_ (to make a terrible Yiddish pun)- puts the whole
issue in perspective. It really is just a guy thing, isn't it,
in which many Women have only a passing interest, one way or the
other.
It is the male vanity that imagines Women spending their days
imagining ways to 'do' our wee-wees. In my case it's a matter of
'set and forget,' meaning I'm told when and for how long, and then
the matter is forgotten by Her (whose life is centered elsewhere,
believe it or not) but is mine to dwell upon. ;
I personally feel that as long as the guy doesn't break loose before I've
had my fun there is no problem. I personally am indifferent to whether or
not my hubby jerks off occasionally. *HE'S* the one who insists on being
locked up or in other ways controlled. He's got some kind of fetish about it.
=Really?= sez I, eyes wide in amazement. ;D
I'm convinced that males should orgasm/ejaculate regularly, and I get off on
getting my partner off, so the idea of just using my partner and then
leaving him to hang has little charm for me (although I reserve the right to
do so, of course!).
This thing about 'regularity' is a serious health / safety issue
often overlooked by male 'players' (whose responsibility it should
be to keep all concerned informed, especially themselves). Some
Women choose to impose a regime of 'sameness,' which takes takes this
into account.
As to *my* orgasm, I like to orgasm frequently, and as long as my slave
obeys me and remembers his training, it's no problem. :)
That's the universe unfolding as it should, then. :)
Peace, then
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:12:30 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: i had to look
Message-ID:
FEIt was a painful experience, I feel, I grew
FEand I just love you woman!!!!
FEPatricia
Very cool, and I, you. Thank you.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jul 96 05:05:18 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re : Thin is in
Message-ID: <960727090518_101342.2030_GHW74-1@CompuServe.COM
To Spirit Wind
I wrote :
I developed a deep *admiration* for those tall and
haughty *normal* models - what man in this group would not!
You wrote :
What man? This man, that's what man wouldn't! I don't like that look, and I don't
think it's normal looking.
Steady boy .... steady ! read the writing ! If I didn't make myself clear, then
apologies - but - I think (if you read my post again) that I was in fact pointing
out that magazines using *waif* models were in the wrong. When I said I like the
*normal* models, what I meant was - I like the *normal* models - note the emphasis **
- I did not say I like the *waif* models, otherwise I would have said that I had
developed a deep admiration for those tall and haughty *waif* models - see, its
all there if you look
you wrote :
To me "haughty" is stupid and boring and I wouldn't give "haughty" five minutes
of my time, and "normal" is anything but.
Me, Im a *boobs and bum* man myself
woman will have me running around the kitchen like a demented fool !
To finish and to re-iterate - I DO NOT agree with the current media trend of
using ultra slim models, give me a well rounded women with boobs and bum anytime !
Sorry about the sexism in this post, but my problem is that I ADORE women, and
find them VERY SEXY !
Dennis (t.o.m)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:52:55 +0200
From: silverheart
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Help and Femuscle
Message-ID:
Daily Mail July 22nd - reported by Jane Gordon - based on
research by Dr Robert McHenry, of the Oxford Psychologists
Press.
Quote : Todays young women are not only physically more
masculine - taller and wider - they are also becoming more
like men in personality too. Young women are now more
aggressive, more arrogant -
Great! Fewer victims, less harassment, less rape etc.
If now only the men could become more like the women too!
and more dishonest. .. It also suggests that they are
beginning to think like men. This mental and physical
androgyny is endangering the most powerful human instinct,
the urge to procreate.
Great! Less overpopulation.
Well there we are then ! If things go on as they are,
should we be thinking of feMALE Supremacy ?? .. heavens
forbid! The saving grace is that - quote: Mature women are
finally coming to realise that the attraction between men
and women lies in our difference -
Wrong. The most intense attraction (and the most intense
conflicts) come from individual personality differences.
Understanding and ability to live together come from our
common humanity, i.e., our similarity.
"Different but equal" cannot liberate or equalize anyone in
a society that is power differentiated on the basis of gender.
On the contrary, "Vive la Difference" is a mechanism for
oppression in such a society -- which is why those in power
are in support of "Vive la Difference", and maintain a
'sex difference industry'.
silverheart
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #170
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 171
Today's Topics:
Re: Women and physical type
Re: [Noble
Re: Women and physical type
Re: Women's gymnastics.
Aggression and arrogance,
Denis' Point
Re: jThin is in
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Give it up (was Re: Flaming (??))
Re: i had to look
Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Laura's Writings and the Cosmos
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 17:00:33 +0200
From: silverheart
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type
Message-ID:
Coyote Sings wrote:
That said, I =do= say that our =culture= prescribes
that women try to mold themselves upon a
male-imposed, male-idealized vision of Womanhood, and
those who do not are penalized in some significant
way. Mostly male image-makers / image-recyclers are
still a malignant influence in our society. Much of
modern ad art featuring women is a stinging reproach
to women as they really are, just as the Marlboro man
is to me (which is my problem to deal with, but that
doesn't make it right).
I agree, fully. But I also think that it must be possible
for a male to talk about his preferences and fantasies
without him being burdened with the idea that his doing so
necessarily, by the virtue of his gender, has to be an
example of males trying to force their ideas and preferences
on females -- at least when these ideas and preferences are
not mainstream/stereotypes (and maybe even if they are, as
long as his style is not loud and rude).
Many female bodybuilders perceive themselves as front
soldiers of feminism, defining and upholding a new image of
female power. I agree. An athletically sculpted body as a
symbol of heroism and power is not new, it is an ancient
symbolism, but what is new is that women are appropriating
it. Traditionally it has been perceived as a stronghold of
masculinity, as indeed most sports have.
Women gaining access to sports previously dominated by and
associated with male power, is empowerment of women. It's
not only about physical empowerment, skills and endurance; it
is also spiritual, because building an athletical body means
that one is giving shape to and expressing one's soul and
virtues (dedication, will power, commitment to be the best
one can be, etc.) -- unlike superficial cosmetical beauty
ideals which are objectifying because they're just on the
outside, or are just physical attributes that the person
happens to have been born with. Also, women's access to
these sports is changing the relationship between the
genders, and also ideas and perceptions of sexuality.
(See for example Helen Lenskij's book: _Out of Bounds: Women,
Sports and Sexuality_ for elaboration of these points.)
For all these reasons, women's sports -- and especially
sports stressing physical contact, muscularity etc. -- are so
controversial, a locus of struggle for feminists. This does
not mean that all or even most women "must" or "ought to"
engage in that particular battle; people do what is right for
them. But those women who do choose to take that path, the
Amazon path if you like, are entering a cultural minefield,
they may be influential and they may be hurt, and they
deserve support and acknowledgement. I'm glad to see that
there is a proliferation of web sites dedicated to Amazons
(start for example here:
http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html).
silverheart
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:00:02 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: [Noble
Message-ID: <31FA6732.1C76@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
silverheart wrote:
Women gaining access to sports previously dominated by and
associated with male power, is empowerment of women.
NOT NECESSARILY.. it is also about:
ANOREXIA AND ATHLETES:
reported high incidence of Anorexia in women athletes and expecially
ballerinas. this site says about 20% of anorexics die from the disease
and also points to perception of overweight, seeking perfection and
fear
of becoming fat as major causes of the disease in young women.
http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w-fishy/ed-5.htm
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 18:35:01 +0200
From: silverheart
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type
Message-ID:
Women gaining access to sports previously dominated by and
associated with male power, is empowerment of women.
NOT NECESSARILY.. it is also about:
ANOREXIA AND ATHLETES:
reported high incidence of Anorexia in women athletes and
expecially ballerinas. this site says about 20% of
anorexics die from the disease and also points to
perception of overweight, seeking perfection and fear of
becoming fat as major causes of the disease in young
women. http://www.pb.net/usrwww/w-fishy/ed-5.htm
This applies to traditional "feminine" sports (like
ballerinas as in your example), i.e., sports that tend to
reinforce gender stereotypes. This is yet another reason to
welcome women gaining access to traditional "masculine"
sports -- one cannot succeed in these sports by being
underweight or anorectic. One cannot be an anorectic
bodybuilder, one cannot be thin and muscular at the same
time; one cannot be a bulky powerlifter and undernourished at
the same time; one cannot be a successful thrower and a thin
lightweight at the same time. These "masculine" sports can
be a way for women to break free from the femininity
stereotypes that encourages anorectic behavior.
silverheart
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:33:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women's gymnastics.
Message-Id: <199607271933.MAA01029@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Well, I forgot that hitting Reply for Magnus sends posts straight to
him instead of to the list, so here's a copy of my reply to his post
on women's gymnastics. Some new commentary added at the end.
I understand that as of the next Olympics, no one under 16 will be
allowed to compete, at least in Gymnastics. This was told to me by a
friend who also watches most of the events, so I can't verify it.
However, within hours of the US team's win, the American newscasters
were saying, "Do we push our young atheletes too far?" Between what
the accumulation of injuries can do to a body, plus the eating
disorders that seem to be pretty prevalent among gymnists, the fear is
that too much damage is being done to them before they even are fully
grown.
So, hopefully, at least in some countries the abuses will get a little
less. Don't forget, however, that it's traditional in athletics to
try to "go for it" even with an injury. Many professional athletes,
dancers, etc. will continue regardless of pain, whether it's for their
team or personal pride. I saw an example of that as early as junior
high, when a girl my age did several ballet solos in a recital after
her kneecap slid out of place. She didn't tell the instructor until
after doing some incredible dancing.
I'm not trying to make it sound better for abusive coaches...I just
would hate to see it always assumed that someone went in through pain
to achieve _only_ because of fear of punishment.
I understand that the girl on the US team that was injured did try to
not do the second vault. She kept asking the coach if she could
stop. He'd say, "We're close!" She'd say, "How close?" He'd say,
"Very, very close." So she did the second vault, and won't be
competing in her other events in the olympics. It was ultimately her
choice. Certainly under a lot of pressure though.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 96 22:59:29 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Aggression and arrogance,
Message-Id: <199607272058.WAA16505@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:52:55 +0200, silverheart wrote:
like men in personality too. Young women are now more
aggressive, more arrogant -
Great! Fewer victims, less harassment, less rape etc.
With an all around increased level of aggression and arrogance there
will most likely be more victims,
If now only the men could become more like the women too!
That would be a better way to go.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:39:34 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Denis' Point
Message-ID: <31F96546.A7F@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Point noted and understood. You made yourself clear. I just ran with a
thought and should have acknowledged the rest of your excellent post. Our
agreement was clear except that one point, but it got me goin! No
apologies necessary, it's I who owe you one. :)
Thanks,
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: thughes@crosslink.net
Subject: Re: jThin is in
Message-Id: <199607272229.PAA01162@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Spirit Wind wrote:
The fashion industry is dominated by gays who like women who look like men, no hips, no
breasts, and long and lean, and they hold them up as examples of what women should look
like? They don't like women sexually, so obviously ladies if you listen to their
standards of beauty you will hate the parts of your body that make you who you are, your
thighs, your breasts, your hips, etc. Be you, your better than any gay fantasy of what
women should look like.
Woah. I think that's a pretty big leap. I think you can appreciate a
gender's body without being sexually interested. I like to look at
women, but rarely if ever actually am interested in touching another
woman sexually. I suspect I could design clothes that would look
good on a woman, regardless of whether I found the body type
attractive or not. And, there are a number of woman designers out
there as well. Many of them are just as bad, designing stuff a
"real person" kind of woman can't wear.
I'll point out that this year's big fashion thing is the visible
navel, which requires pants/skirts that lie low on the hips. Not
exactly what I call trying to make a woman look like a man.
Half of the "high fashion" industry seems to design for art more than
function anyway. They just want some high payed, surgically enhanced
woman to pay big bucks for their stuff. They'll keep designing for
twiggy folk until non-twiggy folk become the rich women in film and
modeling.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607272317.QAA01190@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
The sad fact around here does seem to be (and FS presumably needs an
agenda to develop this) is that even liberally minded folk are shit
scared of talking about sex. R can narrate two true instances of this.
Nearly ten years ago a friend got married, on a visit beforehand R
showed him a toy catalogue and said choose anything you like for your
wedding. He chose a harness which was duly delivered on wedding day. A
few weeks later it came back through the post with a very hoighty letter
from his lovely wife and our friend too, 'they had no need of these
things'. Wow, were we put in our place. We still speak and even
occasionally sleep under the same roof but we have never been able to
forget the level of lost communication this showed and the guy has never
said 'oh, I am sorry. what a mess I made of that' (the expensive harness
was'nt wasted, it just means we have got two which can be handy).
Throughout history, what's taboo and not taboo has changed. There was
a time when the family of the deceased used to prepare the body for
the funeral together, in the home. Today, we use euphamisms for
death, such as "passed away" and "moved on." Preparation of the body
is done by someone else, and we have nothing to do with it except
maybe a nice sanitary viewing. (Speaking for the cultures I'm
familiar with, of course.)
There was a time when childbirth was a taboo subject. Pregnant women
did not go in public, and no one discussed how that cute little baby
got there (how they were born, not how they were conceived).
[I will have to go hunt down the time periods for these things. The
instructor discussed them in my university health class, "Death
Education." :)]
Sex, itself, varies over time with how taboo it is. You think some
western societies are close-mouthed about it now, think back to
Victorian times! And, remember that the US was founded by Puritans.
Things have progressed greatly in the last century. Just look at all
of the old footage of people in those bathing suits that were so big
that they looked like a shirt and shorts. Now we've got string
bikinis. I don't exactly call this "progress," but it does show that
things have certainly changed. Heck, same sex marriages are predicted
to become legal in the next 10 years. They almost have in Hawaii, as
far as I know. Who would have predicted that 20 years ago?
as fs can demonstrate to both of us its potential to kill sexual
abuse and hurt whilst endorsing sexual pleasure and education,
it will give us something to sign up to (and if incredibly it
can bring Jesus Christ on side (we have given up on St Paul
(Romans 6:20-23 could hardly be brought round to this (go on
someone, try) and Romans 9:19-21 was something that R pretty
early on in his realtime theological studies found anathmatic)),
then perhaps we might hope once again to enjoy rubber parties,
chase steam trains and meet you lot in the eternal knees up
(otherwise known to us as heavenly worship).
I think as long as FS is approached in such a way that it emphasises
acceptance of other people and a kind of "world health" view for both
the environment and humanity then things could work the way you hope.
That's why I work so hard to state it over and over, especially when
the voice of hate starts to shine through from any direction. And,
personally, I feel that sexuality is part of overall health.
Therefore, a healthy understanding of sexuality is intrinsic to the
health of the whole person.
And to Dee-Ann and Patricia, by raising this, we do not want to get into
any fights with folk over religion, that is the worst thing around, we
are simply casting around (on a quest which may be hopeless) for a
hopeful solution to the dilemma otherwise known as life and death.
No problem. When it becomes a fight is when people start saying,
"This is right for everyone, believe it, or you're an idiot" or
"damned to hell," etc. As long as folks can try to see things from
other people's point of view, there aren't usually any arguments.
Bye for now, take care (and to the poor lad told to find all those
Tantric URL's, you do get given some jobs).
Well, he said people don't discuss it. And, well, if folks don't know
enough about it to discuss, it's not going to come up in any serious
way. ;)
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:48:48 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Give it up (was Re: Flaming (??))
Message-ID: <31FAAAE0.1DAC@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
kiss my post menepausal wet one....the source is the internet
they don't have pages..etc...go to search engine and type in name of
site...
Patricia
then give un the internet address.Must be REAL hard.CLUE-usually starts
with http://
if you can't source your quotes then don't bother putting them on this
forum and if you do, then expect ridicule.
Matt--
Give it up. I have resisted getting involved in this, but this is
getting ridiculous. Just stop it. I'm sure many others on this list
are getting tired of the bandwidth it takes to keep this up. She
told you the name of the page... type it in after the http://
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 17:01:01 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: i had to look
Message-ID: <31FAADBD.2894@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia--
Thank you for the sources, but you didn't need to go to all the
work of finding the sources for matt and tony. Let them do their
own work. Dee-Ann banned at least one of them from the list
already. I know that you do not post things that are not sub-
stantiated and I know how much their comments hurt you (and Barry
and others that work very hard on this list). It is obvious
that these two male persons were just trying to get some reactions
from us (males and females alike that understand netiquette as
well as graciousness). Maybe they were just trying to stir up a
male vs. female kind of war to break up this mailing list. If
that is so, it did not work. If anything, they have made us pull
closer still to the ideals we believe in so strongly.
No need to apologize and if I ever need to know your source, I
will ask you nicely. ;
BTW, your poem was beautiful...
Love,
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 17:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Controlling the male orgasm.
Message-Id: <199607280054.RAA01283@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2959
Laura Goodwin wrote:
I hate to get mixed up in discussions about controlling male orgasm only
because I seem to represent a minority view...that controlling a male
slave's orgasm is a matter of minor importance.
I'm kind of middle of the road on the orgasm issue.
I personally feel that as long as the guy doesn't break loose before I've
had my fun there is no problem. I personally am indifferent to whether or
not my hubby jerks off occasionally. *HE'S* the one who insists on being
locked up or in other ways controlled. He's got some kind of fetish about it.
I find that I enjoy knowing that someone can't orgasm without my
permission. However, that doesn't mean that I make them go months
without. Sometimes I'll make them go days, if I'm feeling
particularly like building them up without relief, or if they did
something "bad."
I happen to like having my fellows orgasm. Not going to punish myself
by denying myself overly long. ;) I just have them do it when _I_
want them to.
I'm convinced that males should orgasm/ejaculate regularly, and I get off on
getting my partner off, so the idea of just using my partner and then
leaving him to hang has little charm for me (although I reserve the right to
do so, of course!).
I understand that men need, at the very _least_ to get hard on a
regular basis. Otherwise, damage can be done that will make it more
difficult to get erect in the future. And, I agree, knowing that I
drove someone to orgasm is a great feeling. :) However, sometimes I
just like to leave them hanging for a day or two, just to see them
obey. Something deep down just really loves that. :)
There is one person who is allowed 1 orgasm a month. However, he's
been known to get bonuses for holidays, good behaviour, and my whims.
And, he's trained not to be able to orgasm without my explicit
permission. I enjoy the control, sometimes he gets a lot, sometimes
he doesn't. However, he's the only partner I do this with. I have no
desire to do this kind of training/orgasm denial on a regular basis
with every partner I have.
The truth is that, in my case anyway, the real problem is getting him off.
My slave hubby needs a lot of stimulation to get there, which is why we have
such an extensive collection of "marital aids".
I find this is true for most partners I've had. Not all of the time,
of course, but I think women are raised to think it's very easy for a
guy to reach orgasm. I'm not sure that's necessarily true.
As to *my* orgasm, I like to orgasm frequently, and as long as my slave
obeys me and remembers his training, it's no problem. :)
Hehe. Sounds familiar.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 00:40:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Laura's Writings and the Cosmos
Message-Id: <199607280440.AAA03217@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Laura- I hope you don't mind, I excerpted a snippet of your writings, it
was thought provoking and I thought I would share my thoughts with group.
Laura Goodwin wrote:
The Goddess gives and gives and never asks why. SHE is looking out for
us, and is infinitely creative about taking care of business. Our
awe-inspiring Goddess knows our needs, and has provided for our fulfillment
before we ask. SHE takes you by surprise with Her ingenious and whimsical
ways. SHE stands always ready to shock you with Her amazing methods and
Her irresistible power. If you are ready to allow for Her miraculous
manifestations, She is certainly ready to wow you!
One example from my recent experience: I needed extra cash quickly, but
didn't have a clear idea about how to come up with it. Within hours after
handing the problem to the Goddess, my answer came right to my door. A man
rang my bell, looking for a neighbor's garage sale. I told him that he had
the wrong house and the wrong day. He explained that he was an antique
dealer and was hoping to find some unusual old things. I said, "You like
old things? Take a look at my old time clock here!" I let him in to
examine a junky old time clock my hubby had rescued from a foundry before
demolition. It was in sad shape, but he was sure he could find a collector
who would buy it, so he offered me the money I needed and more on the spot.
I was floored, and agreed to the deal at once, thanking the Goddess in my
mind immediately.
HER ways are marvelous, and Her methods will surprise you.
I've had the same type of experiences also. As I've expressed on the
mailing list before, I can feel that underlying spiritual force, a force
that is both "out there" and "within us". For me right now, the force is
genderless, but when it moves through my life it is very powerful. I have a
sneaking suspicion however that it may be the Goddess. What I have felt is
a nurturing, loving, and surprising force, similar to what you describe, Laura.
Thinking about spirtuality and metaphysics has jogged some memories for me
tonight. Has anyone read any of the "Seth" books? They are a series of
books written by the husband of woman who was a medium for a ancient spirit,
they lived in a town about 40 miles from here (Elmira). Most of the books
were actual transcripts of the "spirit" communicating through the woman. It
was fascinating reading and dealt with alternative ways of viewing reality.
For example, do you sometimes feel that the room you're sitting in is a
little smaller or larger than it was yesterday? Well, it's not your
imagination, it is, and you made it be smaller or larger by conscious
thought. The basic theme was that we have the ability "to make things
happen" in a very powerful way. Our projected thought energy can alter our
present, our future, and even our past.
I tried an experiment with this concept once when I was about 25. I was
home visiting my parents on a weekend. I was expecting to spend the evening
with them and anticipated a rather boring evening. So about one in the
afternoon, I started mentally focusing my thoughts on going out that night
and meeting a nice woman to talk with and laugh with. I kept this up for
about eight hours. Then out of the blue an old friend of mine gave me a
call and invited me out to have a drink. We arrived and joined some other
friends and......wow...there was the unknown woman I had been concentrating
upon all day. A friend of a friend of a friend whom I had never met before
in a bar I hadn't planned to be in, because of a friend I had not expected
would call. The woman and I talked and laughed deep into the night ;) Was
this just coincidence, was it my doing, or was it a guiding spiritual force
(the Goddess perhaps)?
The books also went into alternative life paths, implying that our present
life experience is but only one version of our larger *self*.
Simultaneously, other versions of us are following different paths in
similar spatialities. The paths that the *self* choose in the past, as a
result of major life decision, has spun off different versions of us to go
out and experiment. Remember, the human body replaces all it's cells every
x years (not sure of the number, maybe 7 years).
Another theme of the books was validity of dreams. The contention was that
dreams are just as "real" and valid as our "awake" world. We can travel and
explore the universe and even ourselves in the dreamworld. I've tried to do
this in the past, but have been unsuccessful. Richard Bach's "A Bridge to
Forever" also explores this concept. After months of mental effort, he and
his soulmate leave their bodies and meet above their bed. From there they
pass easily through the roof of the house and go exploring; flying and
soaring hand in hand :)
Feeling cosmic this evening, Paul
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 162
Today's Topics:
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
An Apology, of Sorts...
Re: An Apology, of Sorts...
Re: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
Re: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
Private fantasies and "internal censorship"
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
A new subject
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:03:22 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-ID: <31F6656A.829@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hey I am not your secretary..go to the internet like i did..type in the
name of your source and get the information your self....
Patricia
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
patricia wrote:
whatever problem you have
that makes you such a misoginist,(<<<***flaming?) (no wonder men die on
average seven
years before us...they should stop arguing with superior intelligence)
but it is no excuse for you brutish behavior here(***are you implying that
tony is a brute?gee,sounds like a flame....)
Patricia
Source:
InsideMEDICINE Report(****WHAT ABOUT PAGE NUMBER,DATE,PLACE OF PUBLICATION
AND AUTHOR/S?-ARE WE SUPPOSED TO FIND THE LUCKY PAGE NUMBER AND EDITION
ALL BY OURSELVES?YOUR ABILITY TO FIND THESE WONDERFUL QUOTES COUPLED WITH
AN INABILITY TO PROVIDE FOOTNOTES SUGGESTS SOMETHING,BETTER NOT SAY IT,I
MIGHT BE FLAMING!)
15 to 20 abstracts (summaries) of late-breaking research on
ANOREXIA NERVOSA:
7 million women
aged 15 to 35 have the eating disorder anorexia nervosa
Source:
1996 Indiana University (***FOOTNOTES,REFERENCES????)- The Center for
Adolescent Studies
While 10% of anorexics die, the other 90% of cases result in health
problems
ranging from weakened bones to heart disease. Anorexia can also
cause severe
depression which can lead to suicide
bye the way, only 1 women in the whole wide world died from anorexia last year.
Source: Oxford university .
Matt.
p.s Bostwana is the richest country in the world.
source: lichtenstein times,1995.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:04:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-ID: <31F665CA.612B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
kiss my post menepausal wet one....the source is the internet
they don't have pages..etc...go to search engine and type in name of
site...
Patricia
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
patricia wrote:
Your accusation of my being a liar is as far from the truth as one can
get. I have lost friends and made many enemies..for my strong
commitment to the truth..and would do so again. The truth shall set us
free. your abusive behavior is what keeps us (including yourself) far
from free.
Not that you deserve an explanation, but I have my Masters in Public
Administration. Statistics are my business. I wish it were not true
that so many women are so devastatingly affected by what they percieve
they must look like to have a man like them. but you are the proof of
the pudding are you not...that what they die for..is not really a
fantasy in their mind...but a fantasy in yours.
Patricia
Then give us the footnotes.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:23:49 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-ID: <31F66A35.1338@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
matt and tony.
ok I went for this woman baiting game. How come you aren't asking Tony
for his sources etc. He made a claim too about the number of women who
died from anorexia and bulimia. Why are you targeting the woman who did
give you an internet place of reference. Sure different sources will
say different things..but none of them will say only a few women die
from anorexia and bulimia..
you would rather argue how men are not responsible for any of this
disease because of their attitudes about stereotyping what is a
worthwhile woman. just like typically many...way too many males blame
pregnancy on women, (she said she was on the pill) rape on women, (look
at the way she was dressed), I don't have to pay child support (now I am
afraid to give you the figure cause I don't have time to go get all the
sources, so once again men have cut off meaningful dialogue)...but since
many seems ok...many men do not pay court ordered child support.
The point is really not how many die because of this male held attitude
about what makes a woman worthy..the point is creating a new world where
women can be safe to be themselves and define for themselves what it is
about them that is worthwhile...FOR OURSELVES.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 07:39:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: An Apology, of Sorts...
Message-Id: <199607241439.HAA26946@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Not that I'm repentant, but... I am well aware that certain forms of
communication, such as a few of my just posted replies, are not exactly
needed on the list, bein' as they're somewhat detractful and less than
civil. Hence, I'm ducking out of the entire debate, if you want to
call it that
civilized writers.
'course, this's presuming I'm not pulled from the list by Dee-Ann for
flaming.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which menas you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:22:38 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Apology, of Sorts...
Message-ID: <31F677FE.4720@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
you have nothing to apologize for. it would have been a nice dialogue
if when tony had said "not many" women die from anorexia/bulimia and I
had answered with some stats I found...if he had answered with some
stats he found ...and maybe somewhere in between (where it usually is)
we could have come to the truth and all learned something. this is not
learning anything.
and we don't want anyone to accuse any of you guys of being
"pussy-whipped" or do we.....
(@) (@)
c
\____/
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
Message-Id: <199607241630.JAA02601@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1829
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
dear dee-ann: I don't consider tony's letter to be a flame.It is
objective whereas the quote of 100 000 deaths a year is most probably A
LIE.Tony could have said the same thing with the most polite language
possible and no-one would have got upset.
This is the _exact_ reason he was warned. He could have said the same
thing without being so rude and inflammitory.
Thing is, he spoke the truth(or my
version of it anyway).when an individual writes a letter that is a
substantial personal attack against another individual with no foundation
or serious content but to aggrevate and flame that person, then THAT is
what is known as A FLAME.
He could have posted as you did, simply a one liner asking for
sources. Instead, he went out of his way to sling insults all over
the place. That's what got him in trouble.
But for Tony to disagree most vehmently and simply
point out the bloody obvious(I could have said most obvious instead)does
not = Flame.What are the rules for this group when people plant little
seeds of propaganda and disinformation?
He didn't just strongly disagree. He took it the step farther that
makes it a flame. As far as "disinformation"...give me a break.
Anyone can post something they claim to be "fact." However, anyone
else can post with sourced differences of the same fact (which I
notice neither Tony nor yourself have done). If you feel it's so
"bloody innacurate" get out there and give us some up to date sources
that prove otherwise.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:34:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
Message-Id: <199607241634.JAA02614@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2421
You, too, have now been warned. Enough with this little war. Quit
the flaming.
b3016957@student.anu.edu.au wrote:
Chase-points taken.Perhaps Tony should have wrote misguided, misinformed
etc.Whatever the case the whole debate arises phoneix like from the ashes
of Tonys letter.Perhaps Tont felt STRONGLY about the subject of someone
writing what is a blatant lie.That's L-I-E.Perhaps he was more aggrevated
by other people apparently blindly accepting what appears to be a quote
from probably a tabloid magazine at best, and in an academic rage proceeded
to "most viciously flame" patricia and barry by calling patricia a liar and
barry a toady.What would you call someone who has at best blind faith like
barry?Gullible?And perhaps patricia was misinformed.
But when you use a quote to support your argument then by and large
you are responsible for the validity of that quote.If I wrote: there are
100 million people in Fiji,from a tabloid magazine and actully believed it
and tried to impress this fact upon other people well I should bear some
responsibility for it.So Patricia used this fact to support her argument.At
best she was naive.at worst she could be called a liar(sorry!).Simple as
that.Barry could be called gullible at best and a suck-up at worst.Perhaps
tony could have been more subtle.But for people to say tony shouldn't say
things like this because it's not what a true believer in femsupremacy
would say is taking it to the extreme a little bit.(eg-Don't criticise-it's
not right to do so.)
In summary people who post ridiculous little stats like the 100 000 a year
deserve gentle guidence to see the error of their ways or a dressing down.
with respect for patricia's opinions but not her footnoting,
Matt.
p.s I'm sure we've got better things to talk about anyhow.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Private fantasies and "internal censorship"
Message-Id: <199607241721.KAA00181@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 4697
robert and fiona forsythe wrote:
So on a related subject we might pose the question: do folk feel even
private fantasies need internal censorship?
I think that's a tricky, tricky question. Hopefully I won't start a
war with this post, but I really don't feel there's a lot of black and
white, right and wrong stuff in the world.
For ourselves we might have all sorts of wild sexual fantasies but we
get unhappy if they imagine non-consensual partners and likewise if we
read or encounter erotic literature which portrays non-consensual acts,
we find ourself asking how does this prevent the reader from wobbling
across the divide of fact and fiction, because is there not a process
where if we read an imaginative portrayal of any act it can assist the
legitimation of what was an idea into a reality?
When I hit puberty, I was freaked out at the fantasies I found going
through my head at night. There was a lot of non-consensual stuff
going on in there. I still have some non-con fantasies. I have never
acted on any of them. Though, the fun thing about being involved in
BDSM with a partner who first became interested in me when I was
telling him about some of those old fantasies is that we can act them
out in a consensual manner. For example, he can say "No No No" all he
wants, but "Safeword" is what makes me stop, and that's well drilled
into his head. And, I'll tell ya, I have never had the desire to ever
go "farther" than that...the fantasies are just that. Fantasies.
It's like reading the Beauty books. They're sexy, they're flashy, but
you could seriously injure someone doing some of the stuff in there in
real life. Read them, don't try to exactly reproduce them.
So, non-con fantasies aren't in and of themselves "evil," as most
things aren't inherently evil. I think it's how you look at them
that's the key. How you process them. How you feel about them. And,
if they're a strong part of your makeup, how you deal with them.
It has been suggested that writing about non-con is a way of getting
it out of one's system. The idea being that it's far better to write
about it than it is to go out and do it. I don't have any statistics
on this, but it makes a certain logical sense for most people. Not
for everyone, of course...I'm sure there are some who shouldn't ever
come in contact with that kind of writing. I'm sure there are some
who write it and write it and eventually feel the need to go out and
do it. How do we tell the difference?
The problem is, there's no one for folks to comfortably go to if these
thoughts start popping into their heads. Most folks can't go to their
parents to discuss their sexuality when they hit puberty and the grand
confusion begins. And, the rest of the folks who are supposed to help
you're generally afraid are more likely to put you away than talk
candidly with you about it.
And, once again, some people really are driven to go out and _do_
their non-con fantasies. They're generally referred to as people who,
for one reason or another, seem to have no conscience. Or, it's
overridden by the need to do. Where does the need come from? Many
different places, depending on the person. There is a 13 yr old boy
in Canada who was sexually abused by a relative (I believe it was a
relative). He's now in a youth detention center for sexually abusing
small children. He is unrepentant, and has been classed as having a
100% chance of reoffending. How do you deal with things like this?
I'd suggest starting by throwing the book at the person who abused
that boy in the first place. :P But, that doesn't solve the
problem of what to do with a 13 yr old who really can't be let back
out on the streets without major, major progress in rehabilitation.
From our limited knowledge of De Sade, he proved this point. He could
not restrain his behaviour to avoid non-consensual behaviour. Beat the
hell out of a partner with all the whips you can find is fine only if
that partner has willingly entered that gameplan.
Most people like to say they couldn't help themselves as an excuse for
what they did. Makes them feel less like a monster. And, De Sade had
the power to be able to do those kinds of things to people
unpunished. So, was the problem that he really couldn't help himself,
or he didn't see the need to stop himself because no one could do
anything to him for his actions?
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:01:32 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-Id: <199607241801.LAA18184@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:23 AM 7/24/96 -0700, you wrote:
you would rather argue how men are not responsible for any of this
disease because of their attitudes about stereotyping what is a
worthwhile woman. just like typically many...way too many males blame
You're guilty of the same thing (in reverse) of what you're accusing men of.
You're blaming anorexia, pregnancy, etc. on men. Except in the case of rape,
"It takes two to Tango".
First: "All men do not have the attitudes you accuse us of".
SOURCE: Me since I don't have that attitude and know others who
don't either. If I like a person, I like them no matter what
they look like.
Second: Women are just as responsible for the disease as men. If men are so
stupid as to think women should have to fit certain criteria for being
desirable, then women who believe the lie are just as stupid and help to
keep the lie alive. A woman doesn't have to do it, regardless.
Third: Do you think men are under any less pressure to be desirable? Women
have criteria as well. To paraphrase one woman on this list, "I won't BED
any man who is short, fat, balding, under-endowed, etc." Did I go out and
make myself throw up because she and others felt that way? NO! I have lost a
lot of weight and am working out, but mostly for health reasons and not
because I think I'm going to be more desirable to women though it is a nice
side effect. (grin)
Let's face it and be realistic. Bulemia, anorexia and other related diseases
are psychological aberrations and are "exagerrations" of normal tendencies.
To blame them on men's attitudes or anything else is ludricous.
I don't argue that SOME men's attitudes couldn't use "adjusting", but so
could SOME women's. Regardless, to blame the ills of one on the other is
unfair and not true.
Fourth: Your statement that pregnancy shouldn't be blamed on women because
"she said she was on the pill" is ludricous. If she said she was "on the
pill", who SHOULD be blamed? Certainly not the man by himself. After all,
"No woman would tell such a lie would they?"
Seriously, the woman is just as much to be blamed as the man. True,
he should have been more responsible and used a condom anyway to make sure.
The pill is not 100% effective to begin with. It is just as true that the
woman should have been more responsible by not depending on the fact that
she was on the pill (for the same reason) and should have insisted on his
using a condom. If he refused and they had sex anyway, either they were both
irresponsible or it was rape which places it in a different category. Like I
said, "It takes two to tango".
SOURCE: What I view as common sense
sources, so once again men have cut off meaningful dialogue)...but since
As Col. Potter would have put it so eloquently, "Horse hockey"! Because one
or more men cut off "meaningful dialogue" (if indeed they did) to make a
"blanket statment" including all men is just as unfair. I'm here. I'm open
for "meaningful" as well as "meaningless" dialogue. I'm sure I'm not the
only man so ready.
many seems ok...many men do not pay court ordered child support.
Many women do not do certain things as well. Does that make all women guilty
of such an offense? Of course not. Be reasonable.
The point is really not how many die because of this male held attitude
about what makes a woman worthy..the point is creating a new world where
women can be safe to be themselves and define for themselves what it is
about them that is worthwhile...FOR OURSELVES.
No, the point is that no woman should die for this reason. Assuming it is a
widely-held male attitude, there is no reason why a woman should believe it
or act upon it. If I believe another's lie, who's to blame; the other for
lying or me for believing it?
It is currently "politically correct" to blame one's problems on others no
matter what the problem is. Stand up. Take charge of your own life and stop
blaming others. Even if others ARE to blame. That doesn't relieve one of the
reponsibility of taking care of themselves. Hell, my father died when I was
5. Kids (a lot of them girls) teased me for not having a father and having a
naive mother who wouldn't allow me to do the things other kids did. I
retreated into myself and became fat. That's a "nutshell version" anyway.
Am I now to blame everyone else (women especially since they didn't find me
as desirable as others)? Should I blame women for my problem, stick a finger
down my throat, throw up and not eat in order to fit their criteria? Of
course, not! Should I take responsibility for my own actions and attempt to
lead a more healthy lifestyle? Of course. Women (or anyone else) were (or
are) not the problem. The problem is me.
Does any of this make such diseases any less serious? NO! Does any of this
solve the problem? NO! If you want a serious discussion of such diseases, we
must center it on how we can help the "individual" who has the problem. Each
individual with such a problem reason's for having it are "multi-faceted"
and as "widely-varied" as the world is. You can't conveniently find a cubby
hole, name it "men" and say that's the reason. It just "ain't" so.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:41 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A new subject
Message-ID:
Well folks, Tony, Patricia and Barry have all made us very energetic.
For all our sakes (including Tony's) we just wonder if folk wish to move
on.
We will offer a new thought for folk to get their teeth into.
In an absolute sense neither of us are convinced by fem-supremacy, at
least in the fantastic sense of jackbooted women coming to absolute
power (great fantasy for a weekend party), or in some philosophical fem-
separatist sense where women hold all the strings apart from some male
drones retained for menial duties and for their seed.
We think having been around for a little bit now, that is probably the
view of a good number here (i.e you're pragmatists who do really quite
like men if only they did'nt cause such trouble), rather our fem-
supremacy seems to be composed of several threads:
that the stereotype of the feminine (sensitivity, care, nurturing) might
have more relevance to the planet's health today than has been allowed
in the past, it might help assist in the triumpth of the person (all
persons);
that some men for a host of complex reasons really seek to serve a woman
and there are women who need that service at a variety of levels - we
find this interesting in that it is quite an old tradition, in some ways
the old order of chivalry was fem-supremacist, the idea that the Lady
was worshipped kept going through all sorts of cultures;
that a mass of male behaviour (and point taken about responsibility) has
been very abusive in the past and women deserve to be free of this now,
if fs helps to achieve this, great, but we don't fancy women who have
simply learnt to be as nasty as men (and there are some);
there are three forces and doubtless there are others which make for
sympathy to fs,
there is another and this is blatantly sexual but we wish to offer it.
It goes back to the nature of male orgasm as we flagged up in looking at
Genesis. A really excellent reason for fs seems to be in our opinion the
opportunity it gives for both partners to learn how a man's orgasm can
be controlled and manipulated, such that his pleasure comes only at her
say so. This is not another version of bullying, rather it is founded in
the apparent physical fact that a woman can experience multiple orgasms
and a man usually cannot. If therefore a pair are to derive as much
pleasure from sex as possible the man needs training in order to last as
long as possible. I rather guess in the natural order of things, the
male's urge is to shoot as fast as possible. This change is a factor of
birth control converting sex from primarily pro-creational to a
primarily (?what do folk think here?) pleasurable experience. Training a
male to prolong his sexual activity certainly does not feature on
typical male growing up curricula so where is he to learn this
technique? Is this education of the male a major task for fem-
supremicists and where is it done? Does anyone know of (serious not
fantasy) programmes to do this or is it simply something partners teach
themselves (the Stevenson's will probably jump in here with their
material, but our question is really how do we get society to take the
issue seriously and not have to rely on the "underground")?
It seems to us that you could argue about the political aspects of fs a
great deal but that the sexual aspect ought to offer couples a wonderful
prospect for both partners, without necessarily requiring a particular
set political agenda, nor even without going into the extremes of a
domme relationship (for those who enjoy such servitude (and it can
appeal to Robert) wonderful, have fun).
Practically speaking we have found that the way the control is best
exercised often sees the lady riding the man but we would appreciate any
comment from folk who feel that even in a submissive (i.e underneath)
physical position, a woman can still control a man. The control also
often benefits from toys. For instance a friend recently said that she
would love her man to give her an oil massage but he gets bored after a
couple of minutes (and these two are both very much in love folk but
just rather overburdened with work), we are still working up the courage
to suggest that some carefully applied restraints, a collar and lead or
some rubber clothing might produce someone willing to massage for a long
time (or it does in our case). Additionally once a man is trained to
hand his orgasm to his lady, a real control to prevent him misbehaving
outside the relationship can be established.
Does any of this ring bells out there? Are their folk on the list who
without necessarily going for the whole FS package (whatever that might
be), nonetheless feel that in the bedroom it offers huge potential to
simply increase the guy's staying time and application to his devoted?
--
fiona and robert forsythe
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #162
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 160
Today's Topics:
Re: hello
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: hello : boxing & self defense
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Help and Femuscle
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Re: Flaming (??)
Re: Help and Femuscle
footnotes!
"A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:06:57 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: hello
Message-ID: <31F5A161.5D20@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
peter wrote:
There is an old boxing type in my community who has started a program where
he takes women who have been physically abused and gives them the same
training that he would give a professional boxer.
he could take a boy from "the wrong side of the
tracks," who had low self-esteem, and build him into a confident man.
It was for this reason that he wanted to train these women to become more
self-confident.
peter--
I've heard of this before. They do that hear in Seattle at the Hillman
Gym. It's a boxing gym in the the South central part of Seattle. They
don't term it as a program, but they do encourage women to learn to box
at their gym... I haven't seen many women there, but I've seen at least
4-5. I have spoken withe these women at various times when I was helping
a friend with water and towels in the corner, while he was sparring and
they seemed like they had a lot of confidence and esteem, and they were
also very sure of themselves.
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:45:55 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-Id: <199607240545.WAA17741@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Noble wrote:
The American Psychological society says:
at the other end of the spectrum from the american medical
association:
and my mistake tony, it is over 100,000 young women a year who die
from
anorexia and bulimia....is that an acceptable number.
Patricia:
I will not comment on this discussion since others have done so
most ably. But I would like to thank you for injecting some hard
statistics from reputable sources into the arena.
WOW!! A Politically Correct Bullshit Alert AND an Obsequious Toady
alert BOTH in the same posting! Patricia's attempt to pull a fast one
on us with this bogus statistic of "100,000 young women" is so lame
that it hardly even deserves a response. She obviously juxtaposed it
to factoids (true or made-up, take your pick -- like it really matters
in this case!) coming from two respected sources -- the APA and the AMA
-- in order to give a semblance of credence to this phantasm of her own
rather vivid imagination. WHERE, praytell did you get this
"statistic", Oh Great One -- please give a citation, I am dying (no pun
intended) to hear it! If you provide the citation for your "100,000
young women" claim, I will be the first in the library looking it up to
verify. But it strikes me, like a lead balloon upside the head, as
patently preposterous. It is misinformation pure and simple, a la Dr.
Josef Goebbels, the master of the "Big Lie". It is politically
correct garbage. No, Patricia, you cannot concoct numbers as you see
fit and pass them off as real information; there are folks out there in
internetland who are far too smart to be fooled by your slick attempts
at propaganda.
Maybe a significant number of "young women" do die every year from
starvation or clinical "wasting syndrome" secondary to cancer, AIDS,
autoimmune diseases, or other systemic diseases. Maybe. But with
medical technology as advanced as exists in every U.S. hospital today,
with enteric feeding tubes and Total Parenteral Nutrition, it is very
unlikely that "wasting" patients are allowed to reach that stage of
starvation. But to make the UTTERLY BASELESS, UNSUBSTANTIATED claim
that 100,000 young women die of simple anorexia and bulimia (not
secondary to disease but idiopathic or caused by stress- or
culture-induced psychopathology) is absolutely absurd. I notice that
you HAVEN'T included a citation for the "100,000" figure. I guess you
are foolish enough to think we are foolish enough to presume that
because it is mentioned close to apparently valid statistics from the
APA and AMA, that this is a verifiable fact. You may have fooled
Barry Emerson Wright; but you haven't fooled me!
And as for Wright, I have no respect for this person, an obvious toady
who has compounded your attempt at a slick ruse by "going the extra
mile" and SNIPPING your post up so that the citations from APA and AMA
appear DIRECTLY ABOVE the bogus "100,000" figure. Way to go, Barry!
If there were Olympic Gold Medals in Deception, you would sweep the
event. But your deception hasn't worked in this case. You have
revealed yourself (to me) as EXACTLY what you are. I won't get
specific here. Have a good time, Barry.
I have been berated here for being honest about my own fantasies and
desires. Great. I am glad there are so many open-minded people on
this mailing list, open-minded people representing so many different
countries and cultures.
Also, I am NOT (emphatically N-O-T) holding up THIN as an ideal. I
said (and I will repeat it) ATHLETIC. Not thin, not anorexic. I
agree that Madison Avenue has gone way too far promoting the "thin"
ideal for women. Because of this we have had the "waif" fad, and a
never ending plethora of ultra-thin models sashaying down the runways
of Paris and Milan and New York, going way back to Twiggy and
continuing to this day. I for one do NOT find these women attractive,
and do NOT wish that young women would emulate them. I find women
like Gabrielle Reece attractive. Gabby is not thin. She is
super-athletic and leg-presses 1,750 lbs. I realize that every woman,
the vast majority of women, will never be able to attain that. So
what? That is beside the point. The REAL point here is that she is
a role model for the ultra-competitive, super-strong woman athlete.
So what if every young woman can't be that way. Can every young man
be a Michael Jordan?????
Before you start on another round of skewering me with your phony
statistics and slick attempts to con the readers of this mailing list
to make me look like a fool in the process (for the REAL thinkers of
this newsgroup -- for the bold, this hasn't worked; for those who
persist in lying to themselves to be accepted in this politically
correct milieu, I don't care if you think I'm a fool; you're fools
yourselves and you have shown it nicely here!) -- before you start on
another tirade or another disinformation campaign about how all these
thousands of "young women" are dying from some "male fantasy" --
examine your own narrowminded motivations and CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU
WRECK YOURSELF!!!!
Tony (the One and Only)
P.S. Patricia, GIMME THAT CITATION!!!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:19:19 -0500
From: stu
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: hello : boxing & self defense
Message-ID: <31F5CE77.783C@orion.branch-co.lib.mi.us
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My experience with women in general, and ones who have been abused in
particular is a reluctance bordering on fear of physical contact. I help
my karate instructor do anti-rape seminars for various groups, the last
being for the abused womens shelter here in town. What we do is a
lecture on the laws concerning self defense, then he demonstrates a
technique on me, explains it step by step to the ladies, answers
questions then has them partner up & do the technique while we go around
and answer questions & help those who are having problems. What we have
found is that most of them have trouble playing the role of attacker
and/or are worried about hurting the other one. Even after explaining to
them that I am not going to hurt them, I have had several cringe as soon
as I went to show how a technique is done. When doing a technique on me
some pull away and apologise as soon as it starts to work. I am curious,
how do they get women to lose the fear of hitting & being hit enough to
be able to box?
steve
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-Id: <199607240625.XAA02316@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1666
Tony wrote:
WOW!! A Politically Correct Bullshit Alert AND an Obsequious Toady
alert BOTH in the same posting! Patricia's attempt to pull a fast one
on us with this bogus statistic of "100,000 young women" is so lame
that it hardly even deserves a response. She obviously juxtaposed it
to factoids (true or made-up, take your pick -- like it really matters
in this case!) coming from two respected sources -- the APA and the AMA
-- in order to give a semblance of credence to this phantasm of her own
rather vivid imagination. WHERE, praytell did you get this
"statistic", Oh Great One -- please give a citation, I am dying (no pun
intended) to hear it! If you provide the citation for your "100,000
young women" claim, I will be the first in the library looking it up to
verify. But it strikes me, like a lead balloon upside the head, as
patently preposterous. It is misinformation pure and simple, a la Dr.
Josef Goebbels, the master of the "Big Lie". It is politically
correct garbage. No, Patricia, you cannot concoct numbers as you see
fit and pass them off as real information; there are folks out there in
internetland who are far too smart to be fooled by your slick attempts
at propaganda.
There is a rule on this list. No flaming. Post this kind of tirade
again and you'll be removed and banned.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Help and Femuscle
Message-Id: <199607240646.XAA02334@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2644
OhEadhra wrote:
[some deleted]
Daily Mail July 22nd - reported by Jane Gordon - based on research by Dr Robert
McHenry, of the Oxford Psychologists Press.
Quote : Todays young women are not only physically more masculine - taller and
wider - they are also becoming more like men in personality too. Young women
are now more aggressive, more arrogant - and more dishonest. .. It also
suggests that they are beginning to think like men. . This mental and
physical androgyny is endangering the most powerful human instinct, the urge to
procreate.
As women enter the workforce, they are subjected to the same pressures
men have been subjected to there. This is generally sited as the
cause for women's dramatic rise in addiction rates. Add to the fact
that many women are not only expected to work, they're expected to
handle all of the family stuff too (picking up kids, cleaning the
house, cooking, grocery shopping, etc.) and you've got a desperate
group of people trying to find the energy to keep going. And keep
sane in the process.
So, they turn to nicotine or drugs to get pep. Alcohol to sleep or
keep from lashing out at family or co-workers. The interesting thing
(I was reading about "Women and Addiction" in Macleans, a Canadian
magazine recently) is that most female alcoholics don't drink on the
job at all. They drink when they get home. I don't know how it is
with male alcoholics, so I won't venture a guess here.
Anyway, let's try to focus on solutions. Women are becoming more like
"today's man." Why? They're putting themselves under the same
pressures and then some. Relieve some of the pressures, and less
women will be pushed to such drastic "solutions." Some of the
pressures could be relieved by adequate daycare facilities. Some by
"attitude adjustments" among those fellows who think that since they
have the higher paying job, they shouldn't have to do housework. If
they don't want to clean, maybe they should hand over some cash to
hire a maid service. ;) Things like that.
I'll try to track down Macleans' web site. They're the ones who also
published "Is God a Woman?" Quite an interesting magazine. Kind of
Canada's version of Time magazine.
Just a side comment. With a world that's overpopulated, maybe a
little less interest in making babies is actually a good thing. :)
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:55:47 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: dee@renaissoft.com
Cc: olskool@ix.netcom.com
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607240655.XAA17823@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com
AN OPEN LETTER TO DEE-ANN:
This may sound like a naive question to you, but what is flaming? I
use the internet ONLY as a means of communication. It is not a hobby
for me, and I have not bothered to immerse myself in all the
terminology that is used. I hear this term "flaming" all the time,
and I BELIEVE it has something to do with using curse-words or "nasty"
language; but perhaps the definition is a subtler one than that. In
any case, please let me know so I can avoid doing it!
If "flaming" simply means sticking up for oneself and one's own ideas
even if they are unpopular, then I guess I am guilty! Is one person's
"flaming" another person's right to self-defense? Is the
"femsupremacy" mailing list really just a controlled forum in which
people are allowed to express themselves all they want ONLY TO THE
POINT that what they say doesn't step on the toes of one of the women
who seem to pull the strings in the group?
If you could re-post or publicize a Frequently Asked Questions summary
or set of instructions for this mail list, I would be grateful!
Sometimes I feel I am being flamed here, but I guess my skin is thicker
than the others' and I can take it better, so I don't complain.
My own approach to the internet is purely a practical one. I resist
thinking of it as a hobby. I take little interest in what I consider
the "cutesy" terminology that has been promoted among those who use the
"Net". I think all this may merely a method or tool of the
established internet users who have power here (like those who control
networks, e-mail servers, mailing lists, bulletin boards, "IRC's",
etc.) to enforce their own opinions upon newer users, the people whom
they often (condescendingly) refer to as "newbies". Is this true?
Tony
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:14:19 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com, femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Women and physical type (correction!)
Message-ID:
In message <199607240545.WAA17741@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com, Tony
And as for Wright, I have no respect for this person, an obvious toady
for that one line alone, we would ask you to voluntarily consider
removing yourself or apologising.
It may be quite fair for you to disagree with the claimed facts from
both Patricia and Barry, we really do not know, however we will say that
both anorexia and bullima are recognised as very serious problems this
side of the pond, as our own Prince of Wales shows.
But aside from the facts of the debate we are not happy to see this
style of argumentation:
a) there is a concept of fem-supremacy which is about recognising real
respect for persons and their immense differences, any guy supporting
such a concept would find it hard to be this abusive,
b) perhaps there is another concept of fem-supremacy which has reacted
to millenia of men writing and behaving in this aggressive manner by
deciding it is about time many men got a taste of their own medicine,
on either count, Tony you do not come off very well.
Taking fantasy abuse from either sex in a consensual playtime or
lifestyle is one thing, just spewing it out in such a direct manner in
this list will not do anything to convince most of the readers here that
you have a worthwhile viewpoint we guess.
--
fiona and robert forsythe
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Flaming (??)
Message-Id: <199607240936.CAA06892@netcom9.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3000
Tony asked Dee (but I'll take a stab anyway):
This may sound like a naive question to you, but what is flaming?
Oh, calling someone a 'toady' is a pretty good example.
So is implying someine is a liar is another example of flaming.
Vehemently disagreeing with someone without insulting their
person or family is not flaming.
Barry and Patricia have been flamed.
=I= on the other hand am an obsequious toady, and I know from toady:
Barry is no toady. Simply agreeing with someone (for whatever reason)
does not a toady make.
Patricia, if she has the time, has been known to stay up half the
night pulling citations when sufficiently provoked. Part of her job
seems to be to tell people the truth.
Is the
"femsupremacy" mailing list really just a controlled forum in which
people are allowed to express themselves all they want ONLY TO THE
POINT that what they say doesn't step on the toes of one of the women
who seem to pull the strings in the group?
It sometimes works that way when people start calling other people
names. And, yes, there is a slant toward the women who are regular
posters (at least it's always seemed that way to me, but, being a
gynotropic toady, I rather like it that way). BUT I have never seen
a woman here, any woman, yet censor anyone else for their ideas
alone (or even for their honest passions). The few women (and men)
who have tried that are no longer here. The best way for a male
especially to get along here is to be reasonably polite to all comers,
eschew crude, and definitely =not= hit on the Wimminfolk unbidden.
But beyond that, put it all on the table and be prepared to
take, as I have, some heat or to see your masterpiece ripped to
shreds. All part of life on the Net, at its gentlest.
I think all this may merely a method or tool of the
established internet users who have power here (like those who control
networks, e-mail servers, mailing lists, bulletin boards, "IRC's",
etc.) to enforce their own opinions upon newer users, the people whom
they often (condescendingly) refer to as "newbies". Is this true?
It was, but now things are changing too fast for anyone
to claim 'established user' status. If anyone calls you a
and have suddenly realized they can't control the chaos of it all.
I can't comment on the rest of this issue because I am not
especially fair- or open-minded about this community, only about
those who post here.
Peace
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:08:51 -0700
From: Ray Jones
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Help and Femuscle
Message-Id: <199607241108.EAA01738@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:46 PM 7/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
Anyway, let's try to focus on solutions. Women are becoming more like
"today's man." Why? They're putting themselves under the same
pressures and then some. Relieve some of the pressures, and less
women will be pushed to such drastic "solutions." Some of the
pressures could be relieved by adequate daycare facilities. Some by
"attitude adjustments" among those fellows who think that since they
have the higher paying job, they shouldn't have to do housework. If
they don't want to clean, maybe they should hand over some cash to
hire a maid service. ;) Things like that.
Perhaps, society would do well not to focus on a more "middle ground". Let's
be realisitc. I'm a firm believer in women's equality. Obviously, every
woman is not going to be able to "lift that bale" and "tote that barge". It
is equally obvious that every man is not going to be able to either.
While there are (Thank God) differences between men and women "in general",
an individual man or woman is just that. Each of us have qualities and
abilities which are better than, just as good as or inferior to the next.
With practice, we can "hone" those qualities to a greater extent and become
more like another, but do we really want to.
If a woman want's to do ANYTHING, she should be able to at least try. If she
can, she can. If she can't, the same applies. The same goes for men. Every
man will not be able to "leap tall buildings with a single bound" and every
woman is not going to be able be an NFL Superstar. Should each have the
chance to do so? Of course.
There are many differences between men and women, but there are many
similarities as well. I think it would be nice if the world in general would
realize that we're all people. Regardless of sex, we all have the same basic
desires to be successuful, to be appreciated for who we are rather than what
we look like and for what we can do rather than for what someone else thinks
we should do.
Yes, SOME men try to force women into particular molds. The SAME IS TRUE of
SOME women. Just as not all women are not going to be Gabrielle Reece (or
whatever the name is I keep seeing), not all men are going to be Paul Newman
either. We should learn to respect and care for the individual rather than
trying to "peg" everyone. Cubbyholes are nice for "general cataloging", but
they are of little use in the final analysis.
I've always hoped a woman might be president for the simple reasoning you've
pointed out. You say that women are BECOMING more like men. I agree, but
(for the most part) they haven't had time to become as corrupt and jaded as
the average man. It is fast becoming that way, though. A few years ago and
maybe even now, a woman might have helped. I'm fast reaching the conclusion,
it won't make any difference soon.
Rather than women focusing on being more like a man or men becoming more
like a woman, perhaps it is more reasonable for all people to become more
like "people".
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************************
Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray" the Buggy Driver
Licensed Tour Guide
Historical tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans, LA
Ride in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying the surroundings-
and being informed about the history, points of interest and other info
Cellular Phone - 884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
ray.jones@mail.sstar.com OR ray.jones@nopc.org
"Big Ray"'s home page http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:57:21 +1000
From: b3016957@student.anu.edu.au
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: footnotes!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
TONY wrote:
Before you start on another round of skewering me with your phony
statistics and slick attempts to con the readers of this mailing list
to make me look like a fool in the process (for the REAL thinkers of
this newsgroup -- for the bold, this hasn't worked; for those who
persist in lying to themselves to be accepted in this politically
correct milieu, I don't care if you think I'm a fool; you're fools
yourselves and you have shown it nicely here!) -- before you start on
another tirade or another disinformation campaign about how all these
thousands of "young women" are dying from some "male fantasy" --
examine your own narrowminded motivations and CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU
WRECK YOURSELF!!!!
Tony (the One and Only)
P.S. Patricia, GIMME THAT CITATION!!!
I agree!100 000 unsourced deaths a year did seem a wee bit too
suspicious.please give us the reference!Matt.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:05:28 +1000
From: b3016957@student.anu.edu.au
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dee-Ann wrote:
There is a rule on this list. No flaming. Post this kind of tirade
again and you'll be removed and banned.
Dee-Ann
dear dee-ann: I don't consider tony's letter to be a flame.It is
objective whereas the quote of 100 000 deaths a year is most probably A
LIE.Tony could have said the same thing with the most polite language
possible and no-one would have got upset.Thing is, he spoke the truth(or my
version of it anyway).when an individual writes a letter that is a
substantial personal attack against another individual with no foundation
or serious content but to aggrevate and flame that person, then THAT is
what is known as A FLAME.But for Tony to disagree most vehmently and simply
point out the bloody obvious(I could have said most obvious instead)does
not = Flame.What are the rules for this group when people plant little
seeds of propaganda and disinformation?To a small degree the comparison
with Gobbels was valid.
Matt.
" A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"-Gobbels.
"100 000 young women a year die from these diseases"-we all know who.PROVE
IT!SOURCE AND REFERENCE YOUR 'QUOTES'.Otherwise the comparison with Gobbels
seems valid.
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #160
************************************************
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 114
Today's Topics:
Re: An Observation
Re: An Observation
Re: the goddess holiday
Re: An Observation
Re : An Observation
Re: Re : An Observation
Usage
Amazed and something else
Re: Usage
Re : An Observation
Re : Too Boosy wife
Re: God(s) ? (was Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #110)
Re: An Observation
Re: Amazed and something else
Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #113
Re: Amazed and something else
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:09:25 -0400
From: cuffs@shore.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960621180925.0068c914@shell1.shore.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The question of which Domme to serve raises many questions. We are all
believers in Female Supremacy or i assume we would not be on this list.
Although we honor all women, your submission is a gift you give to One. If
it is Her wish that you serve another by doing so, you are still serving
Her. you may ask to return to Her service, but it is ultimately Her
decision, and Hers alone to make. By serving the second Domme you are in
fact honoring the One who has chosen you and you have in turn have chosen to
give your gift of submission. As i said before, we honor all women, but we
must think long and hard before we surrender our wills and bodies to that
Special One..
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:33:37 -0400
From: Dan Glover
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-Id: <9606211933.AA09614@Operatns.mohawkc.on.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:17 AM 6/21/96 -0700, you wrote:
Dee-Ann wrote:
When one of the list members posted about a dilemma involving 2
dommes...the original having handed him over to a second, and the
second suddenly saying she was going to keep him for life even though
the original was supposed to be able to come back for him, there were
2 different types of responses:
I would've posted a third type of response, but having seen the respones,
I thought it well enough answered without my (sometimes abrasive) input.
As I recall, he'd said that the first domme was kind to him, with some
indication that he cared for, and preferred, her to the second one. His
paradox was that he wanted someone to tell him what to do, which domme to
honor/obey/go with. I largely agreed with the women who replied, insofar
as it'd seen that he was honor-bound to the first domme, and only told to
obey the second.
But as one of the men responded, being a submissive doesn't mean that you
spineless or mindless - an' I haven't seen very many dommes who wanted a
submissive jellyfish for her own, except mebbe in an aquarium. ; Under
circumstances where two dommes are attempting to claim him, it comes down
to one thing - which of the them does he -want- to serve, to consider him-
self owned by. Who does his loyalty belong to, regardless of who it
-should- belong to, according to others. Then again, there's always
vacilating, rendering submission to whatever would-be domina is currently
there giving orders - but I don't think many here would look highly on, or
recommend, that course of action.
Simply my oh-so-very-humble-and-obsequious opinion, of course. ;-)
Oh - let's not forget another possible factor in the two different types
of responses coming from the two genders. Serving two mistresses, being
in such a quandary, isn't exactly an uncommon fantasy for many male subs.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- "You may serve God, or you may serve the Devil,
-- But you have to serve someone."
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
well said...thanks
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 15:47:58 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: the goddess holiday
Message-ID: <960621194757_100410.1764_BHG72-1@CompuServe.COM
June 21 is the SUMMER SOLSTICE...the longest daylight day of the year.
Unless you live in the Southern Hemisphere of course.
Happy Winter Solstice Tracey - it's wonderful to know that enlightment is
spanning the globe.
Jon
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 16:25:01 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-ID: <960621202501_100410.1764_BHG38-1@CompuServe.COM
Men are frequently incapable of properly interpreting the
actions of the superior sex. I therefore immediately
considered the option that the slave was confused
about what was happening to him.
I would also not wish to criticise my superiors in any way.
Jon
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 18:16:44 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re : An Observation
Message-ID: <960621221643_101342.2030_GHW112-1@CompuServe.COM
I must concur with Lawless, especially the part about a sub fantasy of two
owners. I admit to thinking that the original posting was some sort of joke
from a *net bandit*. To be a sub is truly fulfilling, but again I must agree
with Lawless that we should not ever lose our sense of *self* and become
*jellyfish*. My apologies to the original contributor if the situation was real,
but in the end, even subs themselves must decide to serve who they want to serve
.. it is their *choice*.
I would do anything for the *right* dominant Lady, but I divorced my ex-wife
because she was too *bossy* (goodness - that is a paradox !!). If anyone wants
me to explain the difference further, I would of course expand (if I really
know myself that is !!).
Basically, what I am saying is that although we have all read (I hope) the
wonderful S.M.C account of male abduction and enforced enslavement stories, I
would humbly guess that High Priestess LaLaura may honestly prefer that She and
her followers were served by willing slaves (Mistress Patricia - please pick
another *live in*, us males cannot stand any more teasing !!).
Dennis (T.O.M)
Please help :
Having surfed a few D/s pages (always willing to learn .. but none as
intellectual as ours !), I seem to be going against all excepted protocol by
using capital letters when not appropriate. I apologise for this, but since
correct English grammar was drilled into me for many years at school (UK), it is
second nature. I can understand that in mixed tendency groups it is necessary to
identify your own predilection to other participants, but if it is obvious that
you are a male in this group, I think everyone knows how the wind blows !! If
not, I stand corrected, and will conform to the accepted norm.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:08:47 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Re : An Observation
Message-ID: <31CB55AF.5FCF@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
OhEadhra wrote:
(Mistress Patricia - please pick
another *live in*, us males cannot stand any more teasing !!).
I am not sure what you mean...how have I been teasing...cockteasing..te
he
post menopausal DOMME ME?
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Usage
Message-Id: <199606212332.QAA03166@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2430
Dennis wrote:
(Mistress Patricia - please pick
another *live in*, us males cannot stand any more teasing !!).
Second the petition- Mts P is wonderfully vivid and to the
point in her depictions of domestic harmony. :)
I love it!
I seem to be going against all excepted protocol by
using capital letters when not appropriate.
You'll notice that many of us (males) use normal spelling in
public posts. One reason seems to be that this is a Female
Supremacy forum rather than an exclusively BDSM Female Dominant
forum, meaning that it is open to women and others whose interest
may be primarily political (Feminists) or religious (e.g., Wiccans)
who have little or no interest in erotic FemDom. Some few might
even be offended by it (as were two very otherwise very dominant
women whom I referred here) or simply regard servile usage (in
public at least) as silly (and inspired in part by either the
SCA or the Stuart English of the King James Bible and the BCP).
One Witch slapped me down very hard for what she regarded as
self-serving fantasizing when I came on with 'i' and 'You.'
Several other women object strenuously to the term 'Mistress,'
noting either its implication of being a married man's toy, or
its odious connection with real praedial slavery. Some Lesbians
especially prefer 'Master' no matter who they're dealing with.
It can also be a distraction, epecially when it creeps into
business and other public usage, as has happened with me with
some really laughable results (if it weren't for the lost trade).
What works for me is to write like a Valley Girl in public,
but in private be as grovelingly nice as my heart and the Lady
addressed might require.
Something all males might work on is to avoid the first
person reference wherever possible, both in public and in
private. 'It seems that,,,' in place of 'I think that,,,'
and that sort of wording. Try it: it's hard, at least at first.
T. Even O.er M. ;]
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 19:56:23 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Amazed and something else
Message-ID: <960621235623_101342.2030_GHW61-1@CompuServe.COM
I am amazed at reading the posting from one of our group (I apologise for not
knowing whom , I unfortunately deleted the post before realising !!). He
described (whilst at a particular low), an overwhelming feeling of well-being
with regard to a dear friends problematic operation. Last year, I was also in a
similar situation, late at night, slumped in an armchair, and full of
foreboding. The Lady concerned (Hilary Penketh) ywas in an hospice, suffering
from advanced breast cancer, and I had been told that night that the chances of
her leaving the hospice was virtually nil (She had days to live). Needless to
say, I was utterly devastated, but whilst at my lowest point, I was filled (as
described), with the most emotional feeling I have ever had. It started from my
feet, and swept through my body like a wave of power (it WAS like a switch being
turned on). What was more mind bending was an inner voice that said
the end. Like the group member who experienced the same suffering, the shock of
such a revelation spurred me to phoning my best friend (late at night) to
describe what had just happened, in order to verify to myself (at a later date),
that what had happened .. did happen !!
What I may now ask is that although this most wonderful Lady survived the
hospice and the disease a year go, a year later (now), could you pray to your
individual *Supreme Beings* to see her through the unbearable pain of advanced
breast cancer (in the bone) that she is now suffering. She nearly died last
year, but she survived, with all your prayers, she may survive again !!
This Lady has nothing to do with our group .. but she is the finest person I
have EVER known.
Thank you all.
Post script :
I have not had the inner voice saying This Is The End
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:28:54 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Usage
Message-ID: <31CB6876.25C6@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes, certainly you do not have to cap and lower case here, I meant to
only refer to private email...then I expect etiquette...it turns me on
when used actually...and makes me GRRR!! when not in private email..
For me relationships are very ceremonial. even every day events like
email can be used as turn on....using capitalization in private email is
one of those ceremonial symbols....
never meant to say they should be used here..sorry if I made it sound
that way...Coyote hugs to you...dear, sweet man.
and Happy Solstice everyone again.
Patricia
Coyote Sings wrote:
Dennis wrote:
(Mistress Patricia - please pick
another *live in*, us males cannot stand any more teasing !!).
Second the petition- Mts P is wonderfully vivid and to the
point in her depictions of domestic harmony. :)
I love it!
I seem to be going against all excepted protocol by
using capital letters when not appropriate.
You'll notice that many of us (males) use normal spelling in
public posts. One reason seems to be that this is a Female
Supremacy forum rather than an exclusively BDSM Female Dominant
forum, meaning that it is open to women and others whose interest
may be primarily political (Feminists) or religious (e.g., Wiccans)
who have little or no interest in erotic FemDom. Some few might
even be offended by it (as were two very otherwise very dominant
women whom I referred here) or simply regard servile usage (in
public at least) as silly (and inspired in part by either the
SCA or the Stuart English of the King James Bible and the BCP).
One Witch slapped me down very hard for what she regarded as
self-serving fantasizing when I came on with 'i' and 'You.'
Several other women object strenuously to the term 'Mistress,'
noting either its implication of being a married man's toy, or
its odious connection with real praedial slavery. Some Lesbians
especially prefer 'Master' no matter who they're dealing with.
It can also be a distraction, epecially when it creeps into
business and other public usage, as has happened with me with
some really laughable results (if it weren't for the lost trade).
What works for me is to write like a Valley Girl in public,
but in private be as grovelingly nice as my heart and the Lady
addressed might require.
Something all males might work on is to avoid the first
person reference wherever possible, both in public and in
private. 'It seems that,,,' in place of 'I think that,,,'
and that sort of wording. Try it: it's hard, at least at first.
T. Even O.er M. ;]
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 20:55:00 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re : An Observation
Message-ID: <960622005459_101342.2030_GHW36-1@CompuServe.COM
Mistress Patricia,
what I am tying to say is .. you present us with a personal problem that all the
subs in this group would DIE for to resolve !! It has been expressed succinctly
by LaLaura who said ( if my memory serves me right) - ditch him!!
Some of us subs, live (at this moment of time), without a Domme to serve. We (I)
find it difficult to believe that someone who has been given the opportunity to
serve you has not satisfied your needs. What a loser !!
Good hunting !!
Dennis (T.O.M)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 96 21:48:16 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re : Too Boosy wife
Message-ID: <960622014815_101342.2030_GHW44-1@CompuServe.COM
I would do anything for the *right* dominant Lady, but I divorced my ex-wife
because she was too *bossy* (goodness - that is a paradox !!). If anyone wants
me to explain the difference further, I would of course expand (if I really
know myself that is !!).
Being of an extremely curious nature, I would love for you to expand. I
leave the decision on whether to do it on the list or in private to you.
Note: This is a private letter. Any response will go to me personally,
unless you edit the address of the recipient.
Thank you for your personal mail, and I hope that you dont mind me placing it
on our public forum.
My ex-wife WAS bossy, and has since made another man very happy. I am an
extremely independent male, I was born in London (UK), and spent my youth in the
60s taking and selling (what was then) acceptable drugs. I carried a knife, and
later a pistol, in order to survive what was an extremely hostile environment.
I never at any time thought myself as being a sub, purely because I had never
met a real Domme. It was later in life that I experienced my first *submissive*
moment, and discovered that it was not anything to do with *obeying*, more to do
with wanting to obey. The lady to whom I subjected myself, had an *aura* that I
had not come across before, and the act of obeying became as natural as
breathing. Since then, I have had the good fortune of meeting and serving two
other Ladies to whom I totally bonded. I have also met many other *bossy* women
who have never *brought out* the submissive in me.
If all that makes any sense . Thank you if not let me think a bit longer !!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:26:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God(s) ? (was Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #110)
Message-Id: <199606220226.WAA05544@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At sometime, Jet wrote:
I don't believe in any organized religion per se, but more a compilation
of all the religions basic truths...don't kill, steal, lie, cheat,
do unto others... All the books basic truths are the same.
Jet- I believe you are correct, Steven Covey (author of the 7 habits of
Highly Effective People) likes to refer to them as principles rather than
truths.
To quote:
"The reality of such principles or natural laws becomes obvious to anyone
who thinks deeply and examines the cycles of social history. These principles
surface time and time again, and the degree to which people in a society
recognize and live in harmony with them moves them towards either survival
and stability or disintegration and destruction."
I don't believe they are specifically "religious" ideas, but rather part of
most every enduring religion, social philosophy, and ethical system.
Simply put, maybe they just be a part of the "human condition".
And then I also believe that you treat the earth, people, and animals with
the same respect you want for yourself.
Yes, I think that we are but only one part of a greater picture and we should
not be so egocentric and arrogant in our treatment of other peoples, cultures,
species, and thought-planes.
I consider myself a more spiritual person, than religious (having been born
and raised Catholic)...
I tend to be an independent thinker, so I have shed the yoke of organized
religion after many years of indoctrination (not to imply that those
involved in religion are not independent). As I've posted before, I believe
in a guiding and nurturing spiritual force (or God/Godess, whatever IT is I
have come to recognize).
I'm reminded of some old Genesis lyrics (not the bible but the band):
it is the jigsaw, it is purple haze
it never stays in one place, but it's not a passing phase
it is in the singles bar, in the distance of a face
it is in between the cages, it is always in a space
it is here, it is now
Wishing a pleasant evening/morning to all, Paul (aka maidpaula)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:38:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-ID: <31CB86BE.6591@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
good thoughtful answer...
Patricia
cuffs@shore.net wrote:
The question of which Domme to serve raises many questions. We are all
believers in Female Supremacy or i assume we would not be on this list.
Although we honor all women, your submission is a gift you give to One. If
it is Her wish that you serve another by doing so, you are still serving
Her. you may ask to return to Her service, but it is ultimately Her
decision, and Hers alone to make. By serving the second Domme you are in
fact honoring the One who has chosen you and you have in turn have chosen to
give your gift of submission. As i said before, we honor all women, but we
must think long and hard before we surrender our wills and bodies to that
Special One..
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:45:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Amazed and something else
Message-Id: <199606220245.WAA06281@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:56 PM 6/21/96 EDT, OhEadhra wrote:
I am amazed at reading the posting from one of our group (I apologise for not
knowing whom , I unfortunately deleted the post before realising !!). He
described (whilst at a particular low), an overwhelming feeling of well-being
with regard to a dear friend's problematic operation. Last year, I was also
in a similar situation, late at night, slumped in an armchair, and full of
foreboding. The Lady concerned (Hilary Penketh) ywas in an hospice, suffering
from advanced breast cancer, and I had been told that night that the chances of
her leaving the hospice was virtually nil (She had days to live). Needless to
say, I was utterly devastated, but whilst at my lowest point, I was filled (as
described), with the most emotional feeling I have ever had. It started from my
feet, and swept through my body like a wave of power (it WAS like a switch
being turned on). What was more mind bending was an inner voice that said
Wow, it's incredible that you have had a strikingly similiar experience. It's
nice to know we're not alone. The silent voice, in my case, informed me
"everything is fine".
What I may now ask is that although this most wonderful Lady survived the
hospice and the disease a year go, a year later (now), could you pray to your
individual *Supreme Beings* to see her through the unbearable pain of advanced
breast cancer (in the bone) that she is now suffering. She nearly died last
year, but she survived, with all your prayers, she may survive again !!
Sympathies and healing thoughts to Hilary, Paul
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:27:10 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #113
Message-ID: <31CAE97E.1C07@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You made some excellent points. Our testecerone does get in the way
sometimes. I can assure you that you are among friends, and that no harm
was meant to you. I felt a bit like a second husband who suffers for the
sins of the first. The Christians who afflicted you in the past can have
a pox on their houses' if they harmed you intentionally. Mahat Magondi
said "I would have been a Christian if it weren't for Christians." It's
too bad as Jet said, many churches have went to war in the name of
religion. A pox on their houses' too if then did evil intentionally.
The God of the old testament was hard to understand, but love is
revealed even there. It's always difficult to balance the scales of
justice and mercy. That's why Jesus came along. The bible says he is
the light that shines unto every person who comes into the world. Jn
1:9.
Whether Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Taoist, etc., if you
respond and follow the light Jesus is shining on you. Whether you call
Him Jesus or not. My way only religion is ignorant and arrogant and a
pox on their houses' too! I'm just kidding everybody about all these
pox's'!
Nice talking to you Chase
From one who was once as cynical,
Spirit Wind
t
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 96 05:35:05 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Amazed and something else
Message-ID: <960622093505_100410.1764_BHG62-1@CompuServe.COM
What I may now ask is that although this most wonderful Lady survived the
hospice and the disease a year go, a year later (now), could you pray to your
individual *Supreme Beings* to see her through the unbearable pain of advanced
breast cancer (in the bone) that she is now suffering. She nearly died last
year, but she survived, with all your prayers, she may survive again !!
This Lady has nothing to do with our group .. but she is the finest person I
have EVER known.
My thoughts are with Hilary, she sounds very special.
Rest assured though, that whatever happens next, it is not the end.
Jon
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #114
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------------------------------
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 113
Today's Topics:
Re: God/Goddess?
Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #111
Re: Perceptions of the higher power
Re: Coyote Sings
Re: SMC web site
God(s) ? (was Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #110)
MIDSUMMER
An Observation
Re: Femsuprem name
Re: the goddess holiday
Re: SMC web site
Re: An Observation
Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness
Re: An Observation
Re: SMC web site
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:08:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess?
Message-Id: <199606210108.SAA28209@netcom.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 481
Sorceress wrote-
I am blessed to have been a part of this. Thank you--
My pleasure:
And we had flautas and sopapillas, too! |9'
Bright summer blessings to you now, too, :)
belrok,
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:40:13 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #111
Message-ID: <31C97EED.7AEC@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It was interesting noting your emotional reaction to my comments. When
you use a small g for God and a capitol L for lucifer, your point of
reference becomes obvious, as obvious as your symbol signature and
description "heart of darkness".
We just won a landmark decision, keeping the Internet free of
censorship, and we all were happy because that allows people to
communicate about ideas freely. While I may disagree with you as
viscerally as you do with me, I will defend to the death your right to
express them here or anywhere else. The responses of everyone else in
this volume were extremely interesting to me and as someone with a degree
in psychology and a masters in religion, philosophy and ethics,
I find these discussions of the deeper concepts of life fascinating. I
particularly enjoyed Bretts' and Lauras' post. Certainly I in no way
attempted to recruit, recruit where? Like Laura, I expressed MY beliefs
and Christ himself said he died for "all the world." You don't have to
agree, but it is my belief.
As far as disrespect,"xian, ghod, son, etc",
seems a bit disrespectful, as does the angry, hostile tone of the letter.
As far as the victor writing the history books, good point. As far as
some angels not having far to fall, they did fall, didn't they. To the
victor goes the spoils!
Chase, I appreciate you for being honest enough
to share your thoughts, no one forced me to read them, if I didn't want
to continue, I could have scrolled you right off the screen any time, but
that was my choice and I'm sure I learned something by having this
discussion. I also capitalize Hinduism, and even Satanism, out of
respect for people who follow those religions, as you sometimes do.
My intent was to discuss the symbolism of the Godhead in the family
structure, noting the female aspects of the Godhead. Please forgive my
speaking from a male point of view, after all, that is the only point of
view I have. My knowledge is expanding thanks to this newsletter. If
you know the web site for Lauras' church, I would like to check it out.
Thanks.
Respectfully yours,
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:36:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Perceptions of the higher power
Message-Id: <199606210236.WAA18539@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:16 AM 6/20/96 -0700, you wrote:
What is fascinating to me is what a person's perception of the
personality and character of the ultimate mind is. I see the Goddess
as a Mother who is a lover of her own creation. Someone else sees a
conquering male God who defeats competing demons and gods, someone else
sees a mysterious force moving for it's own reasons in it's own way.
Dear Laura- This is a very thought provoking post. I was raised in the
traditional Roman Catholic ideology and grew up with "God" as something to
fear...all that scary talk of mortal sin and hellfire. As I matured and
gained a better sense of self and the world, my perceptions started to
change and I found myself perceiving a gentler and more deeply meaningful
force. One that was nurturing and comforting. Perhaps it is the Goddess,
or God. I haven't been able to attach gender traits to this force that I
believe is present in my life...but I know it's there. It has made itself
know on a few occasions rather powerfully.
At the risk of boring the group, I'll relate one of those occasions. A dear
loved one was having a life-threatening operation on the East coast. I was
unable to book a flight from LA, where my job had taken me, so to pass the
time during the operation I headed to a golf course. I really wasn't into
playing golf, I was stressed out, but I had to do something. I finished
my round and took a seat on the deserted terrace of the clubhouse still
feeling stressed.....then like someone turning a switch, I was filled with an
incredible feeling of well-being and peace. I had never felt anything like
it before. Still a bit overcome, I noted the time of day not knowing why.
I drove the hour back to hotel and phoned my family to get an update on
the operation. I was informed that things went great and the person got
out of surgery a 4:12pm est. I reached into my pocket and looked at the
the time I had scribbled on my golf scorecard.....1:12pm pst. The Goddess
or some force had looked after me and provided comfort and nuturing across
a continent. I shall never forget that spiritual experience.
None of this can be *proved*. The reason there are so many views of
God is because there is no known way to silence dissent. You can't even
kill 'em all, because out of every generation new ideas about God
spring forth from the midst of even the most orthodox like hardy weeds.
In the end, your relationship with spiritual life is a deeply personal
one, and I hope, a happy one. I know happy Athiests who are perfectly
content to believe in no God or any sort of superstition. They are not
fascinated by these questions, and in fact find them annoying. What
happens after we die? Who cares! Yet they can be deeply moral and
decent, working for the good of humanity and the future because they
wish to be immortalized in human memory as a good person.
You can be a good person regardless of what inspires or motivates you.
Maybe we can't all agree on spiritual questions, but we can perhaps
agree on a good way to live.
I think you have hit upon exactly the salient point here. The human
spirit is diverse. And as a result of our own explorations, experiences,
and relationships (within our limited sphere of understanding) we all draw
our unique conlusions.
Paul (aka maidpaula)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:16:40 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Coyote Sings
Message-ID: <31C98778.5DE7@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Your posts are always illuminating and informative. You are obviously
a person of spiritual depth, seeking many things. I just wanted to let
you know I'm lightening up and paying attention!
Peace.
Later,
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:26:16 -0700
From: newmoon@leonardo.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: SMC web site
Message-Id: <199606210626.XAA05447@leonardo.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Spirit Wind wrote:
If you know the web site for Lauras' church, I would like to check it out.
I believe that that site is: http://www.best.com/~essemian/1stpage.html
--Lady Phoenix
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:27:53 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: God(s) ? (was Re: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #110)
Message-ID: <31CA40E9.6A1E@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Brett J Wakefield wrote:
And the mythos concerning Shiva, the God form which WAS represented as
Divine Hermaphrodite, and his consort (and enslaver) Shakti was
scripturalized in the Upanishads, which were held to be more esoteric,
and less accesible to the masses than the Ramayana, and so of somewhat
less concern to Ahoka"s emissaries got rather short shrift in the Levant.
About which Priestess Laura G. is far more able than I, who am merely a
member of SMC.
This is very interesting: I have a theory that Jesus Christ was one of
many 'sons' of God(des)...each one appearing around the same time frame,
known by different names, each of the 'chosen' religion (Muhammed, Buddha,
Jesus, etc.). In the Bible it says that someday all the religions will
be one... what better way than to have the sons being them together.
Of course, I also believe that because the bible and other holy books
were first passed from person to person verbally (not unlike gossip),
that things were added, 'miracles' were expanded upon and enlarged, and
when they were finally written down in book form, the translations also
had their own slants... So what is really true or not, no one really
knows. Of course, you also get slants from those reading and interpreting
the holy books into ideas that correspond to their ideas. It gets pretty
complicated.
I don't believe in any organized religion per se, but more a compilation
of all the religions basic truths...don't kill, steal, lie, cheat,
do unto others... All the books basic truths are the same. And then
I also believe that you treat the earth, people, and animals with the
same respect you want for yourself. I consider myself a more spiritual
person, than religious (having been born and raised Catholic)...
Religion has always been something that people have fought over...the
Crusades and such...to prove that their religion is the "right" one.
I don't think any religions is the right one if you have to fight to
make others believe that. I think that if the religions practiced
what they preached: brotherly love, truth, justice, and all the basic
truths that they have, we'd have much more peace in the world.
Just MHO...
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 02:51:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: MIDSUMMER
Message-ID: <31CA70BE.67AD@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Glorious Summer Solstice to everyone.
I was incorrect earlier...the Spring Solstice celebrates the waking of
the Goddess from winter sleep. So for your Summer Solstice present I am
writing down the correct dates and Wicca holy days and brief
explaination of each:
The organizastion of festivals under the Wicca year seems to date back
to preagricultural times and to be keyed to seasonal changes, changes in
the sun's position, and the fertility of animals. The two greatest
holidays occur in Spring and Autumn.
THE GREAT SPRING HOLIDAY
May Eve, or Beltane, falls on April 30. In essence, it celebrates the
return of spring, the return of the sun, and the coming plenitude of
summer. In England this festival was known as Roodmas, and in Germany
as Walpurgisnacht. The following day, May Day, was also the day of the
Robin Hood Festivals in England, a great holiday for Druids, the day of
Maypoles and circle dances; it is was also the great celebratory day of
the Communists. Not too oddly, the catholic and christian Easter also
falls in this time of year. All conquerors try to build new traditions
on the back of the older traditions.
THE GREAT FALL HOLIDAY:
Halloween is associated with witches, the risen dead, and other scary
things today, but it can be traced back as far as the Druids. The
original holiday in Pre-Christian times was a holiday to celebrate (and
seek to remedy) the sun's retreat. In those olden days, great bonfires
were lit to stimulate the sun to imitation. They were meant to be
attempts to rekindle the sun through imitative magic. When the
Christians changed this Autumn holiday to All Sants' Day, pagan
symbolism lingered. Thus October 31 has variously been called November
Eve, Samhain, All Hallow's Eve and (today) Halloween. It is a bonfire
holiday and a harvest holiday, incorporating the ideas of harvesting
both the fruits of the earth and the souls of the dead. It is also the
time when the summer GODDESS (the Great Mother) relinquishes her power
to the winter god (the Horned God).
THE OTHER FIVE FESTIVALS OF THE WITCHES:
MIDSUMMER: (June 21), a festival of summer rebirth and fertility.
IMBOLC: (February 1), also known as Candlemas. This is the winter
holiday and another bonfire day to remind the sun to return.
THE VERNAL EQUINOX: (March 21), this holiday recognizes the prayed-for
return of the sun.
LUGNASADH: (August 1), also called Lammas is an early harvest holiday.
YULE: (December 21) celebrated by preagricultural peoples and pre
christians as a bonfire holiday that later became the Christian
Christmas on December 25.
It is easy to see that Christian holidays were deliberately set at times
that had been sacred since the earliest pagan days. The christians knew
the power paganism had over the people, and usually renamed rather than
reinvented holidays.
Even today most of the symbols associated with Christmas and Easter are
pagan rather than christian---yule logs, bedecked treees, festivals of
lights, reindeer (antlered gods?) in the sky, eggs, and bunnies. Tree
worship, fertility worship, and the Horned God are all elements of the
Christmas and Easter celebrations. And the symbols still have great
potency for us even when we don't really know what they mean. In a
sense, we all remain pagans at heart.
Information source: WITCHES, by Erica Jong...Publisher, Harry N.
Abrams, Inc., New York, 1981
happy solstice, Blessed Be and On to the Ancient Future....
PATRICIA
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@catherine.renaissoft.com
Subject: An Observation
Message-Id: <199606210816.BAA01016@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1021
I kind of noticed something and thought I'd mention it for
discussion's sake.
When one of the list members posted about a dilemma involving 2
dommes...the original having handed him over to a second, and the
second suddenly saying she was going to keep him for life even though
the original was supposed to be able to come back for him, there were
2 different types of responses:
1. Most of the men said, "She's probably just testing you,
playing head games!"
2. Most of the women said, "She's gone too far, go back to your
original owner and talk to her about this."
Now, what I'm wondering, is where these two responses come from. I'll
first say that my own reaction was also #2. Answer #1 never even
occured to me.
Thoughts?
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:31:57 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femsuprem name
Message-Id: <199606211331.GAA02192@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
pgm@servtech.com wrote:
PATRICIA wrote:
I have been spending time interviewing possible live-in. he has been
over three weekends now and he just gets worse and worse.
Dump him. A dynamite dame like you can get another man as easy as a
sneeze :)
I'm sure everyone who participates here will agree that you are a
dominant lady of proven mettle and you deserve a slave who is
top-notch.
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:45:48 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: the goddess holiday
Message-Id: <199606211345.GAA21511@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com
June 21 is the SUMMER SOLSTICE...the longest daylight day of the year.
Happy Solstice, everybody! :)
The day the sun stands still at it's zenith, before beginning it's slow
annual decline. The moon at this time is also waxing, so take
advantage and visualize or pray or do a dance for all that you want to
see increase.
For you all, dear friends, bright, enduring blessings. :)
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:58:00 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: SMC web site
Message-Id: <199606211358.GAA24649@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
Spirit Wind wrote:
If you know the web site for Lauras' church, I would like to check it
out.
I believe that that site is:
http://www.best.com/~essemian/1stpage.html
Try http://www.darkside-goddess.org
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:19:44 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-Id: <199606211419.HAA07931@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
Dee-Ann wrote:
When one of the list members posted about a dilemma involving 2
dommes...
1. Most of the men said, "She's probably just testing you,
playing head games!"
2. Most of the women said, "She's gone too far, go back to your
original owner and talk to her about this."
Now, what I'm wondering, is where these two responses come from.
Wisdom. In these remarks I heard the voice of experience.
It's like this guys: always know who is in charge. If you get
yourself in a situation where there is more than one mistress over you,
ask to know who is the final authority over the scene. And insist on
knowing what the goal is, you know, like, how will you know if you are
successful/finished? Women often do tend to share power to diffuse
responsiblility, and also because they find it amusing to stretch a
guy's heart like a piece of bubble gum, but there is a limit to how
much of this you have to put up with. If you feel your *mind*
beginning to go, that's the limit, and it's time to regroup.
Experienced subs know this.
To my sister dominants: Women are happy sharing power, but men find it
very confusing and need to have some clear hierarchy established. When
you are dealing with men, you have to emulate them at times. Look at
how they always have team leaders and clear-cut chains of command.
More trouble has been caused by the poor guy not knowing who really
owned him, or who really was in charge. This kind of thing can be
psychologically dangerous, so be careful out there.
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Wolf with a heart of darkness
Message-Id: <199606211446.HAA23248@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spirit Wind wrote:
It was interesting noting your emotional reaction to my comments. When
you use a small g for God and a capitol L for lucifer, your point of
reference becomes obvious, as obvious as your symbol signature and
description "heart of darkness".
Yes, I had an emotional reaction to your statements - I think you'll find
numerous people of various personal faiths who will react to such sayings
as "... the Son died in your place and mine ..." A lot of us have had the
Judaio-Christian beliefs inflicted on us time and time again, from "Christ
died for your sins" to original sin, or being told that we need to get on
our knees and pray for forgiveness, or just having someone sorrowfully tell
us that they really hope that we'll convert because otherwise we're going
to hell. Some folks are even sensitive enough about it to have a dislike
of "God bless you"'s....
Making such statements are, to me, a form of aggression, a territorial
infringement - they're basically attempts to Advocates that a person's faith
has a claim on me, a right to spiritual dominion, especially when not
moderated by a "the Bible says" or "My religion believes". I react to
aggression with hostility - some would say that I overreact. ;
And given the history of Judaism and Christianity, I don't feel it all
that innapropriate to view such things as aggression. The Old Testament
shows a very cruel deity, one who exhorted his followers to expand by
ocnquest, to eradicate other faiths, even to take cities and leave not a
single man, woman, or infant alive. Genocidal even, as shown by the flood.
It's a violent history, and despite the much altered face presented in the
New Testament, the various post-Judaic faiths, the Catholic Church perhaps
above all, continued in Old Testament form, spreading the faith by sword
and flame when peaceful means failed. Look at the slaughter of the Albi-
gensian "heresy", or the Catholic-Protestant wars of the Lutheran era...
Even the primary faith appears to be one of coercion - "Worship and Obey Me
or Burn in Hell". It was even reflected in your post - "we will all live
in love and peace, .... or pay the ultimate price." Eh - my regrets; went
from explanation to displaying my reasons for turning against the religion
I was raised in, an' contrary to opinion, I don't make a habit of attacking
people's faiths.
While I may disagree with you as viscerally as you do with me, I will
defend to the death your right to express them here or anywhere else.
More or less in synch with you here, except that I don't know as I defend
the right to express beliefs -anywhere-. A rabid athiest getting onto a
soapbox in a church during services isn't something I'm likely to defend.
People can harbor whatever beliefs they want, until those beliefs start to
have an active and unwelcomed effect on others. (Example: a pacifistic
group has the right not to give or trade food to their war-mongering
neighbors, regardless of their hunger. But when they attempt to keep
others from delivering food, that's a different story, imo.)
Certainly I in no way
attempted to recruit, recruit where? Like Laura, I expressed MY beliefs
and Christ himself said he died for "all the world."
difference in perception between when someone says "I believe" or "My
readings say" and stating something as though it were self-evident. Hence
part of my disrespectful, angry, hostile tone, an' part from my being one
of the testosterone-laden aggressive types usually seen on the other side
of a female-supramcy forum, complete with shotgun & sixpacks of budweiser,
in cans. ;-
As far as the victor writing the history books, good point. ....
To the victor goes the spoils!
Heh. Indeed so. But see today's tag line. ;-
Sincerely cynical,
Lawless
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Sometimes, the bad guy wins.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-Id: <199606211517.IAA26344@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dee-Ann wrote:
When one of the list members posted about a dilemma involving 2
dommes...the original having handed him over to a second, and the
second suddenly saying she was going to keep him for life even though
the original was supposed to be able to come back for him, there were
2 different types of responses:
I would've posted a third type of response, but having seen the respones,
I thought it well enough answered without my (sometimes abrasive) input.
As I recall, he'd said that the first domme was kind to him, with some
indication that he cared for, and preferred, her to the second one. His
paradox was that he wanted someone to tell him what to do, which domme to
honor/obey/go with. I largely agreed with the women who replied, insofar
as it'd seen that he was honor-bound to the first domme, and only told to
obey the second.
But as one of the men responded, being a submissive doesn't mean that you
spineless or mindless - an' I haven't seen very many dommes who wanted a
submissive jellyfish for her own, except mebbe in an aquarium. ; Under
circumstances where two dommes are attempting to claim him, it comes down
to one thing - which of the them does he -want- to serve, to consider him-
self owned by. Who does his loyalty belong to, regardless of who it
-should- belong to, according to others. Then again, there's always
vacilating, rendering submission to whatever would-be domina is currently
there giving orders - but I don't think many here would look highly on, or
recommend, that course of action.
Simply my oh-so-very-humble-and-obsequious opinion, of course. ;-)
Oh - let's not forget another possible factor in the two different types
of responses coming from the two genders. Serving two mistresses, being
in such a quandary, isn't exactly an uncommon fantasy for many male subs.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- "You may serve God, or you may serve the Devil,
-- But you have to serve someone."
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:45:37 -0700
From: newmoon@leonardo.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: SMC web site
Message-Id: <199606211545.IAA29804@leonardo.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In an earlier post I responded to Spirit Wind's request:
Spirit Wind wrote:
If you know the web site for Lauras' church, I would like to check it
out.
I believe that that site is:
http://www.best.com/~essemian/1stpage.html
Laura responded:
Try http://www.darkside-goddess.org
--
Laura Goodwin
Thank you for the correction! :}
actual front door to the site, and has an "over-21" warning. It also has a
very nice graphic of the Darkside Goddess Herself.
_________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #113
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 115
Today's Topics:
Re: Re : An Observation
Prayers
Ab/Using the Computer in Win95
Home At Last
Re: Observation & Protocol
Capitalization.
Re: Capitalization.
Re: Capitalization.
Re: Home At Last
meretool
Re: meretool
Re: Capitalization.
Re: meretool
Re: Capitalization.
Re: Capitalization.
Re: Capitalization.
Re: Capitalization.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:20:39 -0500
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Re : An Observation
Message-Id: <199606221520.KAA12318@wpg-01.escape.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would do anything for the *right* dominant Lady, but I divorced my ex-wife
because she was too *bossy* (goodness - that is a paradox !!). If anyone wants
me to explain the difference further, I would of course expand (if I really
know myself that is !!).
Dennis (T.O.M)
I think its great to see the pardoxes and to hold them in balance.
It was Jung who I believe first observed that religions maintain their
vigour in proportion to the paradoxes they contain for believers.
Another paradox: when a submissive male asks his Domme for a BDSM
session, it may seem to Her that he is trying to be dominant. Likewise when
he attempts to negotiate, or build up fantasy/expectation elements.
I would be very interested in knowing how Dommes regard and work
with paradox, especially in 24/7 relationships.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:34:56 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Prayers
Message-ID: <31CB9410.2E37@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To OhEadhra:
She is in our prayers.
We wish her health and peace.
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 00:11:17 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Ab/Using the Computer in Win95
Message-Id: <199606230006.AAA13052@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hello everyone,
This one may not amuse Magnus who is becoming renowned for his
dislike of Win95. But we certainly agree with his signature!
We break a work imposed silence to share some correspondence that
might be amusing for you "to try at home."
Names have been changed to protect the 'innocent'?
Frank sent us some lovely pictures of himself in a designer chastity
belt, made on the continent in Europe by a friend of his. (ie. Not
Tollyboy in Britain who we have also heard is good if slowish).
We haven't included the pictures here, not because his face is in
them, which it isn't. But because they are mega big in bytes.
That was all just background. What we wish to share is our advice to
him on how to give his wife power over the computer.
We apologise if the word
English is not brilliant as you will see. So we haven't indulged in
the subtleties on linguistics, only given him the advice he was
seeking.
It might be amusing for any Win95 user to play around with the same
process, at your own risk. We've tried it, and it works on ours!
Kind regards,
Christine and David.
By the way David is a hacker and can easily break into this. But for
well behaved submissives like Frank it would work!
Strictly,
Christine.
Dear Frank,
Thanks for all the useful information on the chastity belt.
You are right. Wives do not appreciate Houdini techniques! But he has
so many other saving graces, I'll keep him around anyway :]
The program that I run to communicate is PC Eudora version 1.4b18. I
would only like to store the program on the windows, and to run it
with a keyword. Is it possible that my wife could give in the
password and change it by times so that she only has access to the
program ? I certainly want to complicate anything.
Over to David here, as he is the Windows95 enthusiast. Personally I
think it's a disaster.
Hello Frank,
In Win95 it is easy to set up your computer with two desktops. One for
you, and one for your wife. In order for you to be unable to gain
access to what your wife does on the computer she has to have the
first password.
After your wife has entered her name and her password, as many other
people as you like can start your computer and give their name and
enter a password. They will all see only the screen as it was before
you started playing this game.
So with your wife in the room, click on
click on the symbol with several keys on it.
Click on the bottom half of the top
screen. This says that different users have different preferences.
Then make sure that in the bottom screen both boxes have
ticks in them. This makes it possible to personalise all the menus and
the desktop.
Then click OK.
Windows will invite you to re-boot at this stage. Answer yes. Then you
leave the room and wait outside until your wife has entered her name
and password.
When she calls you back into the room the computer will have started.
Then when you come in, you re-boot the computer and enter your name
and password in front of her. She is the Mistress so she knows her
password and yours.
Finally you re-boot one more time with you out of the room again. Your
wife enters her name and password.
She calls you back in. You insert the program disk that only she must
have access to.
You then load in any programs that you only want your wife to have
access to. When you are happy that they are up and running ok, you
re-boot again.
Now, whoever gives their password will see their own personal screen.
Your wife will have access to the program you installed, when she
starts the computer with her password.
You will have to be a computer Houdini to get access in your desktop.
Your wife will have the ability with her name and password, as the
first user, to remove this password system from the computer. You will
only be able to change your own password.
Hence your wife can, if she wishes, gain access to everything on the
computer. But you can only gain access to everything if your wife
deigns to tell you her password.
With your own password you will see the system as it was before the
new programs were installed. But your wife will see the system after
the new program was installed. Thereafter your wife has complete
privacy, you only have as much as she allows.
It gets tricky if you forget your password. Have fun!
Regards,
David & Christine.
Christine & David Stevenson,
Authors of the Fem Dom Training Program.
Runs on all IBM compatible PC's.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
Email enquiries:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: Home At Last
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
This has been one of the most beautiful months of my entire
life. Over the past week and a half I have {sorta kinda} been able
to read your postings but have not had the time to contribute. Please
know that you are in my thoughts even when I cannot articulate them.
A happy, if belated, Solstice to you all. I spent the glorious
day in the arms of a woman who is wonderful beyond compare. My heart is
full, but joy means nothing if it cannot be shared. May my words find an
echo in all that is best within each of you.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Observation & Protocol
Message-Id: <199606231342.GAA16972@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
OhEadhra wrote:
Having surfed a few D/s pages (always willing to learn .. but none as
intellectual as ours !), I seem to be going against all excepted protocol
by using capital letters when not appropriate.....
True, some groups or D/s minded people do insist on 'appropriate'
capitalizion from all people, especially with regards to subs using lower
case for themselves. Generally though, using 'i' in general correspondence
is viewed as a presumption - the person is assuming a D/s relationship with
the other person that generally isn't there. Likewise, a dominant who
insists on being referred to in caps, or criticizes a sub for not lower
casing, is assuming the other is submissive to that person. Without some
form of prior negotiations, or it being a tradition at a particular club or
group's activities, either is often seen as a faux pas.
My personal slant is that even in personal correspondence with women whom
I've had the honor of belonging to, I use proper rules of grammar for it.
If they'd particularly -wanted- a submissive who was self-effacing, probably
wouldn't have been me they'd chosen.
more noticeable traits, and it's unlikely I'd serve someone who felt I should
be "kept in my place" as a lower case/lower caste individual. OTOH, if in a
relationship with someone such as 'selle Patricia, who was turned on by use
of that protocol, then certainly I'd be i. ;-
I can understand that in mixed tendency groups it is necessary to
identify your own predilection to other participants
Not so sure about this - if someone hasn't been around a mixed group long
enough to observe a person's leanings, whether D/s or bi/hetero/homosexual,
then they often don't know that person well enough for such things to really
matter.
An' by the by - I read your other post, regarding your ex being too bossy,
and concur - bossiness isn't dominance, and submission isn't just a matter
of obedience, but of -wanting- to obey and please.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 96 17:00:22 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Capitalization.
Message-Id: <199606231502.RAA25378@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof course.
You'll notice that I personally try to abide by English grammar as best as
I can, even if it makes Patricia GRR in front of her screen :).
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 11:20:23 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree wholeheartedly.
And what type of relationship are we talking about in the D/S mode?
It may be the traditional leather-clad dominatrix relationship or one in
which the woman enjoys having a man put her on a pedestal and have his
world revolve around her.
Shouldn't this be something that is discussed beforehand by two people?
Peter
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof course.
You'll notice that I personally try to abide by English grammar as best as
I can, even if it makes Patricia GRR in front of her screen :).
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 11:24:19 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-ID: <31CD8BD3.22FA@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
it only makes me go GRRR when I have told someone to write that way...in
general bad grammar makes me go GRRRR...
(@) (@)
c
\_____/
Patricia
peter wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly.
And what type of relationship are we talking about in the D/S mode?
It may be the traditional leather-clad dominatrix relationship or one in
which the woman enjoys having a man put her on a pedestal and have his
world revolve around her.
Shouldn't this be something that is discussed beforehand by two people?
Peter
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof course.
You'll notice that I personally try to abide by English grammar as best as
I can, even if it makes Patricia GRR in front of her screen :).
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 17:45:04 +0200
From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Home At Last
Message-Id: <199606231545.RAA01169@croco.atnet.at
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you for sharing your feelings with us and here comes the echo:
Love and peace to you and your queen.
Friends,
This has been one of the most beautiful months of my entire
life. Over the past week and a half I have {sorta kinda} been able
to read your postings but have not had the time to contribute. Please
know that you are in my thoughts even when I cannot articulate them.
A happy, if belated, Solstice to you all. I spent the glorious
day in the arms of a woman who is wonderful beyond compare. My heart is
full, but joy means nothing if it cannot be shared. May my words find an
echo in all that is best within each of you.
Peace,
Barry
Bernd
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:19:55 -0400
From: Ymeretool@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: meretool
Message-ID: <960623121955_562293974@emout19.mail.aol.com
i just resubscribed with the new name my Patroness Ms. PATRICIA
graciously deigned to give me. i bow to You, Ma'am. i hope that
subjerry has been mindlessly obedient to Your Excellency this
weekend. One more thing ... i want to behave properly but i don't
know if there are any rules for males on this list. Please ... will
somebody clue me in. meretool
p.s. To make the first part of my name lower case i put
the defective (male, that is) chromosome Y at the
beginning.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:23:04 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: meretool
Message-ID: <31CDA7A8.446C@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
yes, that defective Y, that X wanna be...when they accuse women of
having penis envy .. they are turning there own yearnings around...it is
that X envy that they feel which they are talking about...
good job meretool....I LIKE IT!
Patricia
Ymeretool@aol.com wrote:
i just resubscribed with the new name my Patroness Ms. PATRICIA
graciously deigned to give me. i bow to You, Ma'am. i hope that
subjerry has been mindlessly obedient to Your Excellency this
weekend. One more thing ... i want to behave properly but i don't
know if there are any rules for males on this list. Please ... will
somebody clue me in. meretool
p.s. To make the first part of my name lower case i put
the defective (male, that is) chromosome Y at the
beginning.
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:44:23 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Patricia:
Does this mean that should i ever write to You, that i should use the lower
case when referring to me?
peter
it only makes me go GRRR when I have told someone to write that way...in
general bad grammar makes me go GRRRR...
(@) (@)
c
\_____/
Patricia
peter wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly.
And what type of relationship are we talking about in the D/S mode?
It may be the traditional leather-clad dominatrix relationship or one in
which the woman enjoys having a man put her on a pedestal and have his
world revolve around her.
Shouldn't this be something that is discussed beforehand by two people?
Peter
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof course.
You'll notice that I personally try to abide by English grammar as
best as
I can, even if it makes Patricia GRR in front of her screen :).
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
Thank You, Ma'am. i am learning. i really want to be a new man ... moulded
by a strong Woman. Everyday i say the SMC chant ... Women lead, the men
may follow, etc. As to rules for males on the list, Ma'am ... should i know
anything? Your boy, meretool
Friends,
Regarding the use of capitalization, I have always believed that
any person has the right to be referred to as she/he chooses. This is a
matter of common courtesy.
Though my major reason for subscribing to this newslist is to
learn from the reasoned and thoughtful discussion presented here, I must
admit that I also derive pleasure from the excellent writing style used
by the participants. Sure beats the standard "slave wants a dominate
female" (listen for the Neanderthal grunt in the background) postings I
read elsewhere.
My vote is for standard English capitalization. Still, I am but
one voice among many in this community....
Peace,
My vote is for standard English capitalization. Still, I am but
one voice among many in this community....
I agree with Barry that standard capitalization would be most
appropriate in the open list, but I feel that in private email personal
preferances should be observed.
In my posts, I use the English standard, except when I refer to the
Goddess or God, in which case I capitalize She (or He) in mid-sentance,
and the whole SHE if it begins a sentance, to show extra respect to the
Goddess. Pronouns which refer to the deity are also capitalized, as in
the sentance:
"SHE who is the mother of all things offers blessings without limit to
Her faithful devotees."
If the Goddess is addressed by one of her names or titles, these too
would be similarly capitalized:
"MOTHER KALI, grant mercy to those who trust in you, Compassionate
One."
In the case of quoting or describing a priestess who was acting as the
Goddess in ritual, the capitalization would be as if for the Goddess:
SHE embraced the supplicant, and offered him Her breasts to kiss."
For a priestess or woman who acted as a human being, the standard
capitalization would be used. :) No disrespect to human women would
be implied. I adopted the method I use to honor the Goddess.
If this was universally adopted, it would be convienent, because a man
could honor a woman as a representative of the Goddess or the ideal
female in one sentance, and speak to her person to person in the next
sentance, and it could be clear which it was. Women could show respect
to the ideal male in a man without lowering themselves at all in
relation to the human male.
I don't imagine this will catch on though...who needs more rules of
grammar? Most people can't keep up with the ones we've got. :)
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:05:31 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-ID: <31CDCDBB.7B70@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter:
If you write to me personally and I ask you to use lower case for
you...although in personal email..would give me clue..subness and
willingness to serve is at the level of subconscious...
Patricia
peter wrote:
Patricia:
Does this mean that should i ever write to You, that i should use the lower
case when referring to me?
peter
it only makes me go GRRR when I have told someone to write that way...in
general bad grammar makes me go GRRRR...
(@) (@)
c
\_____/
Patricia
peter wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly.
And what type of relationship are we talking about in the D/S mode?
It may be the traditional leather-clad dominatrix relationship or one in
which the woman enjoys having a man put her on a pedestal and have his
world revolve around her.
Shouldn't this be something that is discussed beforehand by two people?
Peter
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof course.
You'll notice that I personally try to abide by English grammar as
best as
I can, even if it makes Patricia GRR in front of her screen :).
---
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:10:41 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-ID: <31CDCEF1.45B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
When I am Czarina of the Universe and beyong (you can write in my name
at the next election) I will make all men refer to themselves as
"i"...until that time..it is perfectly acceptable to use whatever forms
you feel comfortable with here..unless of course YOUR SUPERIOR
WOMAN..has ordered you to do otherwise.
IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion)
Patricia
"I am woman. I am Invincible. I am Tired."
Barry Emerson Wright wrote:
Friends,
Regarding the use of capitalization, I have always believed that
any person has the right to be referred to as she/he chooses. This is a
matter of common courtesy.
Though my major reason for subscribing to this newslist is to
learn from the reasoned and thoughtful discussion presented here, I must
admit that I also derive pleasure from the excellent writing style used
by the participants. Sure beats the standard "slave wants a dominate
female" (listen for the Neanderthal grunt in the background) postings I
read elsewhere.
My vote is for standard English capitalization. Still, I am but
one voice among many in this community....
Peace,
Barry
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #115
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Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 117
Today's Topics:
The 'SMC' Chant
Re: meretool thanks Ms. Patricia and asks a question
Re: brain function and gender
Questioning.
Re: meretool thanks Ms. Patricia and asks a question
Re: The 'SMC' Chant
Transformation
Re: Transformation
Not Your Average Mom
Re: Holiday
Re: brain function and gender
Re: Movies with Strong Women
Native Americans (was Re: Holiday)
Female Leads (was Re: brain function and gender)
Re: Female Leads (was Re: brain function and gender)
Movies
Re: brain function and gender
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 06:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: The 'SMC' Chant
Message-Id: <199606241349.GAA08682@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2129
Thanks to mere tool for his diligent attention to language and
for giving us such new terms (and concepts) as Patroness and Betters, which
give us more flexibility in talking about how we get along.
It is also flattering that he uses 'the chant' as part of his formation,
and even more flattering to learn that it is now the SMC chant (or one
of them).
The chant itself consists of the lines beginning 'Women...'
(which I had first written 'Womyn' in 1992 when I submitted the chant as
part of a written screening essay to an individual Master Woman.)
Now it really is in the public domain, and that's as it should be.
The remainder of the message was simply my 'hello' to the group in my
very first post here:
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:55:32 -0700
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
Subject: Greeting Chant
To: femsuprem@renaissoft.com (FS List Post)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Resent-Sender: femsuprem-request@renaissoft.com
Sender: amfas
This votive chant by me (1992) offered as a greeting-gift:
Women lead; the men may follow.
Women rule; the men may hunt.
Women own; the men may build.
Women know; the men may wonder.
Women sing; the men may listen.
Women dance, the men may watch.
Women celebrate; the men may pray.
Home at last, one hopes,
hoping to see some light, shed some light,
hew some wood, draw some water,
laugh with You,
and hold up my end of Your sky.
Grateful for the Wise Women who Name
and the Master Women who show the way.
Thrive all, and the good work as well. :)
--
coyote sings jonathan amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Glover
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: meretool thanks Ms. Patricia and asks a question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i agree, we men must be strong, i think i am strong when i worship
Women...it shows strength to show this side of me in a world that is male
dominated.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 07:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: brain function and gender
Message-Id: <199606241414.HAA10476@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1135
Brett wrote:
Since I'm not a neurologist, I don't hesitate to suggest that this is
further proof that women are more evolved than males.
Could it be that we're at one of those quantum leaps in
species evolution? That both women and men are evolving
toward a new expression of genus _homo_, in which women
really are more disposed to lead and men to follow?
My own gut take is that this in response to the pressure
and ruin of over-population. Male dominated reproduction
is no longer a survival trait, any more than is male agression
or male territorial behavior.
We are told that evolution is not as gradual as was first thought,
but happens in a series of short, sharp steps in response to something
_big_.
Are we at an evolutionary fork in the road? Either we become
dinosaurs, or do we evolve into _femina post hominem_?
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 07:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: Questioning.
Message-Id: <199606241424.HAA11318@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1277
Magnus Thelander wrote:
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 23:04:14 +0200
I didn't understand, why you were doing, what you were doing, so I asked.
You were kind enough to explain, and now I understand a little better.
I have a questioning and curious mind. I can't help it. If I didn't voice
the questions I have, I'll probably go even crazier :). Why do you always
take my questions as personal criticism? To me the questions don't look like
critique of you personally, and I hope you'll trust me, when I say, that
that's definitely not my intention. I honestly don't understand, what I'm
doing wrong here. If you would tell me, I'd have a chance to improve my
behavior.
Magnus, we have a saying in the US:
"There is no such thing as a stupid question."
Keep asking, friend. People here respect your honesty,
it seems fair to say. :)
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:36:01 -0400
From: Ymeretool@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: meretool thanks Ms. Patricia and asks a question
Message-ID: <960624103601_337755297@emout08.mail.aol.com
Women are the more evolved part of the human species
and we males are more like the beasts. we males must
never be ashamed to acknowledge that fact. We must
always strive to be Womankind's best friend and to
teach other males their true place in nature and society.
meretool
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:35:59 -0400
From: Ymeretool@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The 'SMC' Chant
Message-ID: <960624103558_337755241@emout15.mail.aol.com
Excellent work which neatly sums up the Female Supremacist
ethic. i use it often in order to resist the old male values which are
everywhere. i think all new males should chant it every day. Chant
it over and over until it takes root deeply in the male unconscious.
i even envision a Female Supremacist gathering where there is a
female and a male chorus ... the Women on a raised platform and
the males on the ground. The strong male voices thunder the
words "Women lead ...", and then the Female chorus sings the
words "... the men may follow". And so on through the chant.
With every line, the message seeps more deeply into the
unconscious. I would like to be part of that male chorus.
meretool
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 96 11:49:17 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Transformation
Message-ID: <960624154916_101342.2030_GHW76-1@CompuServe.COM
Mistress Patricia is certainly a Sorceress, She has not only renamed him, but
seems to have transformed meretool into an extremely eloquent and readable
member of our group.
Thank You Patricia
Keep writing meretool, you could join coyote sings as our group poets!
Dennis (T.O.M)
(abbreviation for The Older Male for the benefit of our capitalising discussion)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:38:09 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Transformation
Message-ID: <31CEEEA1.29CD@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes, I am impressed...and I am not easily impressed...good job meretool
great name too.
Patricia
OhEadhra wrote:
Mistress Patricia is certainly a Sorceress, She has not only renamed him, but
seems to have transformed meretool into an extremely eloquent and readable
member of our group.
Thank You Patricia
Keep writing meretool, you could join coyote sings as our group poets!
Dennis (T.O.M)
(abbreviation for The Older Male for the benefit of our capitalising discussion)
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:24:59 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <31CECF6B.6D7A@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello all--
I posted this to another group, but thought it might be an interesting
subject to get your opinions on.
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Subject: Not Your Average Mom
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:59:33 -0700
From: Jet
To: chix@byzantium.mckusick.com
I have worn many hats in my life...wife, mother, divorcee, bisexual
female, founder of the Seattle Bisexual Women's Network, lover,
business owner, Dominant, among others...
Having a daughter who is now 12 yo and spends about 4 days every other
week with her father, lets me have time to live my life and play my
games without her being right there to observe in any way.
However, I would like someday to have a relationship in the bdsm area,
and I am hard put to figure out how to incorporate my lifestyle without
it giving my daughter the idea that I am really not 'harming' another
person or being an 'abusive' partner. I do not have a relationship
at this moment in time, but it may happen soon...
Does anyone have any ideas how to do this in the context of my life
being safe, sane and consensual without having to go into great detail,
so my daughter will know it is okay, but not giving her age
inappropriate information? I live in a large 2BR/2BA apartment.
Lady Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:50:40 -0700
From: newmoon@leonardo.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Holiday
Message-Id: <199606241750.KAA04198@leonardo.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Excellent concepts.
As my Mom used to say "your Father is the Head of the house; but I am the
neck and I can turn the head any way I choose".
This reminds me of something from "The Native Americans" documentary. A
Native woman leader quoted her mother as saying it was right that men should
walk ahead of women, but only so the women could tell the men where to go.
(By the way, "The Native Americans" is an incredible documentary, made by
Native Americans about Native Americans, and FULL of strong women. I also
found it interesting [as a modern pagan] to hear the similarities between
the repression of indigenous religion in America and the earlier
persecutions in Europe.)
--Lady Phoenix
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:50:42 -0700
From: newmoon@leonardo.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: brain function and gender
Message-Id: <199606241750.KAA04205@leonardo.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Coyote Sings wrote:
Could it be that we're at one of those quantum leaps in
species evolution? That both women and men are evolving
toward a new expression of genus _homo_, in which women
really are more disposed to lead and men to follow?
My own gut take is that this in response to the pressure
and ruin of over-population. Male dominated reproduction
is no longer a survival trait, any more than is male agression
or male territorial behavior.
We are told that evolution is not as gradual as was first thought,
but happens in a series of short, sharp steps in response to something
_big_.
Are we at an evolutionary fork in the road? Either we become
dinosaurs, or do we evolve into _femina post hominem_?
_femina post hominem_ I like that!
Just a quibble: "Male dominated reproduction" has NEVER been a survival
trait. In Nature the female almost always has the last word on whether or
not to reproduce with a given male. The male imperative is pass on his
particular genes, and most instictive male behavior is geared toward this
end. The female doesn't have this worry, her genes are definitely going into
the next generation. The next step, of course, is assuring that the species
itself keeps going. I think women have a biological/psychological edge in
this task. The unnatural domination of males for the past four or five
thousand years has led to a critical situation where that feminine instinct
to preserve the species (and our planet) is desperately needed.
Also "women...more disposed to lead and men to follow" wouldn't really be
anything new. If you go back beyond our present patriarchal period the world
was full of women leading and men following!
--Lady Phoenix
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 96 13:14:24 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Movies with Strong Women
Message-ID: <960624171423_100410.1764_BHG47-1@CompuServe.COM
I would have to single out Alien (and the sequels) in which Sigourney
keeps her cool whilst all the men turn to jelly.
In fact Sigourney Weaver is pretty wonderful at all times.
Jon.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:05:39 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Native Americans (was Re: Holiday)
Message-ID: <31CED8F3.3690@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lady Phoenix wrote:
This reminds me of something from "The Native Americans" documentary. A
Native woman leader quoted her mother as saying it was right that men should
walk ahead of women, but only so the women could tell the men where to go.
I saw the documentary and I enjoyed it immensely. I find that NAs had found
the 'key' to living well before the other races and continue to practice that
as much as our civilization (?) will allow it. I find it very sad that we
have tried to hard to exterminate a race that was leaps and bounds ahead of
the rest of the world.
(By the way, "The Native Americans" is an incredible documentary, made by
Native Americans about Native Americans, and FULL of strong women. I also
found it interesting [as a modern pagan] to hear the similarities between
the repression of indigenous religion in America and the earlier
persecutions in Europe.)
I see a psychic healer for massive head pain caused by a benign tumor, 2
brain surgeries and who knows what else. She 'channels' a NA shaman woman
who requests that I call "Grandma." She has helped me lower my pain 1/4
from a 10+ times a migraine headache (treated with high level narcotics and
marinol for nausea) and I was also able to decrease the meds 1/4 as well.
This Holy Woman is very lucid and intelligent and I am even more impressed
with NAs than I was previously.
Also, back to the religious thread...the Native Americans have a much closer
relationship with the Higher Power than any of the traditional religions I
have come to know. I follow much more of the NA ways than any of the religious
ways I have practiced in the past.
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:09:11 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Female Leads (was Re: brain function and gender)
Message-ID: <31CED9C7.3395@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Also "women...more disposed to lead and men to follow" wouldn't really be
anything new. If you go back beyond our present patriarchal period the world
was full of women leading and men following!
--Lady Phoenix
We can look at our own (US) political history here: Eleanor Roosevelt,
Mamie Eisenhower, for two...among many others
Queen Elizabeth, Catherine the Great, Indira Ghandi for others in
the world's political history.
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:46:37 -0700
From: newmoon@leonardo.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Female Leads (was Re: brain function and gender)
Message-Id: <199606241846.LAA05193@leonardo.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Also "women...more disposed to lead and men to follow" wouldn't really be
anything new. If you go back beyond our present patriarchal period the world
was full of women leading and men following!
--Lady Phoenix
We can look at our own (US) political history here: Eleanor Roosevelt,
Mamie Eisenhower, for two...among many others
Queen Elizabeth, Catherine the Great, Indira Ghandi for others in
the world's political history.
Jet
Very true! In spite of the massive odds against them, women have risen to
positions of power. Imagine what it would be like if all women were born
into a society that _expected_ them to excel! I believe that the world has
seen such societies before, and will see them again...
--Lady Phoenix
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 08:59:13 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Movies
Message-ID: <3205590825061996/A00493/DALEK/11A6CA3B0400*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A6CA3B0400
Michael from Down Under wrote:
a fine Australian Director by the name of Jane Campion, who I might add, we
will hear a lot more from.
I hope you don't come from Australia Michael, because this makes your comment
above even worse. This is incorrect. Jane Campion is a New Zealander. New
Zealand is NOT South Australia! It is extremely ignorant to say this.
Tracey a damn proud NZer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:40:25 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: williams@bayboro.stpt.usf.edu
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: brain function and gender
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Brett J Wakefield wrote:
i.e., males used same parts of brain as chimpanzees to solve
problems; while females brain activity occurred in areas of the brain
involving higher limbic function that were exclusively human and did not
exist in other species.
The human being is 99% genetically similar to chimpanzees. It's that one
percent that makes all the differnce in the world. Of course, now you
are assuming that human beings are evolutionally superior to chimpanzees
and not actually devolved.
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #117
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 118
Today's Topics:
Research into BDSM
Re: Movies
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: An Observation
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: Movies
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: Holiday
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: Capitalization.
A Request
Re: Native Americans (was Re: Holiday)
Re: Not Your Average Mom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 23:07:11 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Research into BDSM
Message-Id: <199606242302.XAA20017@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hello All,
I was approached recently by a friend in Canada of long standing, and
asked if I would be interested in participating in some research being
done by the psychology department of a Canadian University.
I have read the objectives of the researchers and they seem admirable
and long overdue.
For too long, most of the medical profession has taken the official
view that our scene is a disorder and not simply a preference.
So, I'm participating and have already filled in my questionairre. I
have a feeeling Christine will be participating, but she has yet to
wade her way through her copy.
I enclose here some info I took from their prospectus.
Please look it over and give the matter consideration.
If you are interested please send Email to....
Patricia Cross, M.A. (Principal Investigator)
pcross@ccs.carleton.ca
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2683
Aida Hadziomerovic, B.A. (Principal Investigator)
ahadziom@ccs.carleton.ca
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2684
you can if you like mention that I suggested you write for more
information.
Sincerely, David Stevenson....... details follow.......
In this study, we are investigating various different theories that
try to explain exotic sexual behaviours like sadomasochism, dominance
and submission, and bondage. The questionnaires you filled out were
aimed at assessing how well these theories really explain
non-mainstream sexual behaviours.
It is the opinion of the researchers that participation in unusual
sexual behaviurs such as these is NOT related to psychopathology,
psychopathy, or otherwise deviant personality disorders. Past studies
have failed to access adequate samples in order to properly assess
these theories. It is our hope that research through the internet will
provide a larger, more diverse sample, which will permit us to better
evaluate these theories, and perhaps suggest new ways of looking at
human sexuality in all its diversity.
If you have any ethical concerns regarding this research, please
contact any or all of the following people:
Patricia Cross, M.A. (Principal Investigator)
pcross@ccs.carleton.ca
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2683
Aida Hadziomerovic, B.A. (Principal Investigator)
ahadziom@ccs.carleton.ca
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2684
Dr. K. Matheson, Ph.D. (Faculty Supervisor)
1-613-520-2600 ext. 7513
Dr. W. Jones, Ph.D. (Chair of Psychology Dept.)
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2648
Dr. L. Paquet, Ph.D. (Chair of Ethics Committee)
1-613-520-2600 ext. 2692
The questionnaires take about 2 hours to complete, can be completed
over the computer, and emailed back to us at either of the following
addresses:
pcross@ccs.carleton.ca
ahadziom@ccs.carleton.ca
Or, if you download the questionnaires and print them up, they can be
mailed back to us at:
Patricia Cross or Aida Hadziomerovic
Psychology Department
Carleton University
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1S 5B6
Let us stress that your responses are completely confidential and
will only be used for research purposes, by Aida and myself. Your
name, email address, and any other identifying information will be
kept in strictest confidence and will NOT be shared with anyone else.
Carleton University's Psychology Department has a strict and binding
code of ethics which protect your rights as a research participant
and which require that confidentiality be protected and maintained
at all times. Also, in order to expand our sample of respondants,
it is our hope that you will pass information about this study on to
friends and other interested acquaintances. They can email me or Aida
requesting a questionnaire package which can be either emailed or
sent via regular mail to them. NOTE: you must be 18 years of age
or older to participate in this study. Before you begin: Please
indicate the category (or categories) which apply to you:
___ I am "into" bondage
___ I am "into" dominance/submission
___ I am "into" sadomasochism
___ I am a dominant/sadist/Top
___ I am a submissive/masochist/bottom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
___ I have had S&m or D&s experience EXCLUSIVELY
by way of inter-relay chats, MUDs, or other
internet facilities
___ I am not "into" any of the above exotic sexual
practices, either in real life, or via Internet
facilities
Please remember that this series of questionnaires will take you
about 2 hours to complete. We realize this is a large investment of
your time and energy. In return for your participation, we will share
the results of our research with you and provide you with feedback on
your individual responses if you are interested. Thank you in
advance for your careful attention to the questions that follow.
Sincerely, Patricia A. Cross, M.A. (pcross@ccs.carleton.ca)
Aida Hadziomerovic, B.A. (ahadziom@ccs.carleton.ca)
**********************************************************************
**
**********************************************************************
**
Informed Consent Form
The purpose of the informed consent is to ensure that you understand
the purpose of the study and the nature of your envolvement. The
informed consent has provided sufficient information such that you
have the opportunity to determine whether you wish to participate in
the study. Research Title: Exotic Sexual Practices Research
Personnel: The following people are involved in this research project
and may be contacted at any time at Carleton University, Ottawa,
Ontario, Canada.
Patricia Cross (Primary Investigator, (613) 520-2600, ext.
2683, e-mail pcross@ccs.carleton.ca) Aida Hadziomerovic
(Primary Investigator, (613) 520-2600, ext. 2683, e-mail
ahadziom@ccs.carleton.ca) Dr. K. Matheson (Faculty Advisor,
(613) 520-2600, ext. 7513 Dr. L. Paquet (Chair of
Department of Psychology Ethics Committee, (613) 520-2600,
ext. 7563 Dr. W. Jones (Chair of the Department of
Psychology, 520-2600, ext. 2684
Purpose and Task Requirements: The purpose of the present study is to
examine the personality and background characteristics of
men and women who participate in exotic sexual behaviors,
AS WELL AS adults who have not participated in exotic sex.
You will be asked to fill out questionnaires regarding
aspects of your sexual life, your childhood experiences,
facets of your personality,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
substance use, sexual values and attitudes and additional
background characteristics.
Potential Risk/Discomfort: This study may cause some anxiety because
it deals with a topic of a sexual nature. If you feel
uncomfortable at any time please do not feel obligated to
complete the questionnaires.
Anonymity/Confidentiality: The data collected in this study are kept
anonymous and confidential.
Right to Withdraw: Although your participation in this study is
greatly appreciated, nevertheless it is entirely voluntary
and you have the right not to answer any questions or to
withdraw at any time.
I have read the above description of the study concerning "exotic"
sexual practices. The data in the study will be used in research
publications or for teaching purposes. My name or pseudonym
indicates that I agree to participate in the study, and this in no
way constitutes a waiver of my rights. Name or Pseudonym:
_____________________________ Date:
__________________________________________
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!!!
****************************************************************
****************************************************************
****************************************************************
--
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 96 18:02:46 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Movies
Message-ID: <960624220246_100410.1764_BHG87-1@CompuServe.COM
Michael from Down Under wrote:
fine Australian Director by the name of Jane Campion, who I might add, we will
hear a lot more from.
Tracey replied:
above even worse. This is incorrect. Jane Campion is a New Zealander. New
Zealand is NOT South Australia! It is extremely ignorant to say this.
Oh no, we're caught in the crossfire of Australian - NZ rivalry.
Believe me folks, this can make the battle of the sexes seem tame!
If it's any consolation Tracey, English people in their thousands are mistaken
for Australians when we visit the US.
Jon
___________________________________________________________________ Questions
and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
description of supported mailing list commands, send mail to
femsupremacy-requestenaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 96 18:19:41 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <960624221940_100410.1764_BHG87-2@CompuServe.COM
From Lady Jet:
hard put to
daughter the idea that I am really not <'harming' another
moment in time, but it
sane and
know it is okay, but not
large 2BR/2BA apartment.
Jet, trust me, you are way, way above average.
I know that lots of other people deal with this problem, so you'll
probably get some good practical advice from somewhere.
There's a lady called IronBitch who has a web page that mentions
this issue so you may like to exchange information. She has an 11
year old son.
Her page is http://www.voicenet.com/~bearkat/ib/index.html
Each child is different, so it's very difficult for anyone else to
advise you how to broach the subject. Perhaps you can just
start by saying that some people like to involve play acting in
their sex life to make it more fun.
Sounds like you're Slaveless in Seattle!
I really hope it works out well because I admire you enormously.
Incidentally, I've often wondered whether a predeliction for
BDSM is any way inherited. I can trace no event in my life to
explain why I feel this way, so could it be there genetically?
If so, who knows, in time it could be like Mother, like Daughter.
Jon
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: An Observation
Message-Id: <199606242245.PAA01428@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1029
Jon Woolven wrote:
Men are frequently incapable of properly interpreting the
actions of the superior sex. I therefore immediately
considered the option that the slave was confused
about what was happening to him.
I would think that if the slave is confused, he should ask questions
to clarify his quandry. ;) Trying to second guess can lead to many
bad situations. I know that I personally prefer for my slaves to ask
me if they are confused about something. It only becomes a
problem/annoying when I have repeated myself a number of times and am
starting to get the feeling that they're either really not trying, or
not paying attention.
If anything, being asked questions helps to show me where I'm not
clear in my orders.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 18:46:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-Id: <199606242246.SAA01429@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:24 AM 6/24/96 -0700, Jet wrote:
Hello all--
I posted this to another group, but thought it might be an interesting
subject to get your opinions on.
Jet
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Subject: Not Your Average Mom
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:59:33 -0700
From: Jet
To: chix@byzantium.mckusick.com
I have worn many hats in my life...wife, mother, divorcee, bisexual
female, founder of the Seattle Bisexual Women's Network, lover,
business owner, Dominant, among others...
Having a daughter who is now 12 yo and spends about 4 days every other
week with her father, lets me have time to live my life and play my
games without her being right there to observe in any way.
However, I would like someday to have a relationship in the bdsm area,
and I am hard put to figure out how to incorporate my lifestyle without
it giving my daughter the idea that I am really not 'harming' another
person or being an 'abusive' partner. I do not have a relationship
at this moment in time, but it may happen soon...
Lady Jet- Perhaps you can relate it to your daughter using a game analogy.
Talk to her about her favorite games and why she likes them, and how she has
fun and enjoys playing them with her friends. Then try to make the
connection that you have some favorite games you like to play also,
but they are adult games that make you and your play partner very happy.
Try to explain that they are very special games that are only played
in private between special friends. Tell her not to worry if she hears
any noises from mommy's room, it's just part of the game.
Also, it might help to have the relationship sub there when you talk to
her about this (if she wouldn't be too put off) to affirm that he/she loves
to play with you and you both care for her and each other very much.
Warm Regards, Paul (maidpaula)
Does anyone have any ideas how to do this in the context of my life
being safe, sane and consensual without having to go into great detail,
so my daughter will know it is okay, but not giving her age
inappropriate information? I live in a large 2BR/2BA apartment.
Lady Jet
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:26:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Movies
Message-Id: <199606242326.QAA23262@netcom12.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1171
Tracey replied:
above even worse. This is incorrect. Jane Campion is a New Zealander. New
Zealand is NOT South Australia! It is extremely ignorant to say this.
Oh no, we're caught in the crossfire of Australian - NZ rivalry.
Believe me folks, this can make the battle of the sexes seem tame!
If it's any consolation Tracey, English people in their thousands are mistaken
for Australians when we visit the US.
Or the other way around!
This is like the US-Canada thing, it seems.
Or (perhaps?) a German-Austrian thing and whatever confusion
might pass between Scandinavians and between Spanish and Portuguese
or between Brazilians and the rest of Latin America.
My own state is thought to be part of Mexico, which is fine, or
Texas, which is not fine.
Interesting tribal issue, eh?
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 19:00:12 -0500
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-Id: <199606250000.TAA08312@wpg-01.escape.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A divorced mom and daughter pose an interesting opportunity for a
submissive male. Along with doing everything needed to make life go
smoothly for the mum is the opportunity to be nurturing and respectful to
the daughter, who can be a tyrant in her own right. I don't know what harm
there would be in the young one seeing who is boss. IMHO, it is okay for
her to have her mother as a role model who can demonstrate saying no to male
demands for sexual gratification, because by Grade 9 it is pretty likely
that females will have had to withstand one or more forms of intimidation by
males. There may have to be a reservation of certain sights and sounds for
times when Mum has privacy - just as one would expect to find with a plain
vanilla mum.
The issues around step parenting can all be negotiated in a context
of female supremacy.
DL
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 19:03:28 -0500
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Holiday
Message-Id: <199606250003.TAA08634@wpg-01.escape.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
As my Mom used to say "your Father is the Head of the house; but I am the
neck and I can turn the head any way I choose".
This reminds me of something from "The Native Americans" documentary. A
Native woman leader quoted her mother as saying it was right that men should
walk ahead of women, but only so the women could tell the men where to go.
Or, as the man, I rule the roost, and milady rules the rooster!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:05:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-Id: <199606250005.UAA04760@cyber2.servtech.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:19 PM 6/24/96 EDT, you wrote:
From Lady Jet:
I am
hard put to
daughter the idea that I am really not <'harming' another
moment in time, but it
safe,
sane and
will
know it is okay, but not
in a
large 2BR/2BA apartment.
Jet, trust me, you are way, way above average.
Jon- I wholeheartedly second your sentiment, Jet is a special Lady.
There's a lady called IronBitch who has a web page that mentions
this issue so you may like to exchange information. She has an 11
year old son.
Her page is http://www.voicenet.com/~bearkat/ib/index.html
Good advice. I know IronBitch from IRC, she is married to a sub husband and
they have a child. Also, our own Laura Goodwin has dealt with this issue,
I'm confident she will chime in when she has the time.
Regards, Paul (maidpaula)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 23 Jun 1996, Noble wrote:
When I am Czarina of the Universe and beyong (you can write in my name
at the next election)
Patricia
Hmmmm....this is an interesting thought. I always make it a point to
vote, but if I don't like either candidate I write somebody in. My
thought is that it lets the fools know that I've caught onto their game
and am not just another apathetic stay-at-home.
From here on in I'll vote for Patricia! In return, lovely Lady, I ask
that when you do become Czarina of the Universe you make me your
Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 18:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: A Request
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
This is a strange request, but I ask you to bear with me and
consider it. Ever since I returned from Russia I have reflected on how
ignorant I am of cultures outside the geographical boundaries of North
America, and how pitiful U.S. medias' "coverage" of international affairs
can be. These thoughts were triggered by my comparison of conditions as
they truly are in Russia compared to the garbage I was spoonfed here in
the States.
Tracey's ideas added to this. Recently there was a big treaty
settlement in N.Z. aimed at compensating the Maori for past land
confiscation. Yet when I carefully read the article in our local
newspaper I realized it was so full of contradictions that it essentially
said nothing. Meanwhile on the CNN TV channel I was treated to a
bubblehead who enthused about what a "great victory" it was for the Maori,
but I was skeptical; no real details were given and victories for the
disadvantaged don't come that easily.
Meanwhile, we hear nothing about Sweden except that it is
allegedly a rotten welfare state that is quickly sliding downhill, the
United Kingdom is mentioned only as a military/geopolitical ally of the
U.S., and all I'm told about Switzerland is that the people are either
the "Gnomes of Zurich" (sinister international bankers) or little
cutesy-poos who make good watches and chocolate.
In any event, I am curious about how intelligent people view
today's situation in *their* nations. Please view this as an open
invitation to send me private e-mail about how you feel about current or
historical events. I mentioned the countries above because I know we
have subscribers who live there, but information from anywhere on the globe
will be welcome. In return I will be more than grateful to comment about
the situation in America or furnish you with any information that is
within my area of competence.
Thank you in advance for your assistance, and now we can get back
to FemSupremacy issues.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 19:48:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Native Americans (was Re: Holiday)
Message-Id: <199606250248.TAA27004@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
You wrote:
... A Native woman leader quoted her mother as saying it was right
that men should walk ahead of women, but only so the women could tell
the men where to go.
I feel that if men walk ahead, that's it's to clear the path for the
women.
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 96 04:00:30 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM
To: FS
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <960625080030_101342.2030_GHW86-1@CompuServe.COM
Does anyone have any ideas how to do this in the context of my life
being safe, sane and consensual without having to go into great detail,
so my daughter will know it is okay, but not giving her age
inappropriate information? I live in a large 2BR/2BA apartment.
Lady Jet
First of all, it all depends on the *lifestyle* You intend to reflect. There
are of course many activities carried out in an *accepted* loving relationship
that parents would not expect to be witnessed by their children (unless it is
an extremely *open* household). Similarly, a great time can be had in the
bedroom by a bdsm twosome, without traumatising outsiders. Unfortunately, a
great deal of proactive explanations will have to be given to Your daughter
before chains, hoods and whips etc. are to be accepted as the day to day
household scenario. As You know, I had a very enjoyable D/s relationship with
a Lady in a busy office enviroment, without (I hope) anyone else having any idea
as to what was happening.
Laura Goodwin describes in Her Home Page biography a very similar domestic
situation, and as a previous contributor suggested, a few good pointers will
no doubt be coming Your way from that illustrious Lady (if not already).
I am sure Your wonderful sense of humour and undoubted fortitude will ensure
a smooth path to Your chosen lifestyle, and as noted before, You may have even
endowed Your daughter with dominant traits that would take care of most of the
problem (and the world would be graced with another greatly needed Female
Supremacist).
Good Luck
Dennis (t.o.m)
PS
DR SEUSS was very funny - many thanks
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 119
Today's Topics:
Re: Movies & Kiwis
Re: Native Americans
Re: A Request
Re: Rivalry (was movies)
Re: Female Leads
Re: Thelma & Louise
Males walking ahead (was Re N.Americans, was Re Holidays)
Males like beasts (Was Re Ymeretool thanks Ms Patricia)
Re: Capitalization.
Inherited? (was Re Not Your Average Mom)
Uses for uncivilizable males in a femdom world (warning: humor)
Unsubscribe
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: Thelma & Louise
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Laura, Your Advice... (was Re: Not Your Average Mom)
Re: Inherited? (was Re Not Your Average Mom)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:53:58 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Movies & Kiwis
Message-Id: <199606251153.VAA25016@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tracey you are absolutely correct in saying that Jane Campion is from NZ, no
argument from me, however The Piano was a production of the SA Film Corp. I
am also sorry to hear that your hopes are dashed, I do hail from Sydney. As
a final touch I would like to add that many a fine talent has come to our
shores from NZ. "How Bizarre" by OMC, currently #2 in the Australian charts,
are Kiwis.
Michael
At 08:59 AM 25/6/96 +1200, you wrote:
Michael from Down Under wrote:
a fine Australian Director by the name of Jane Campion, who I might add, we
will hear a lot more from.
I hope you don't come from Australia Michael, because this makes your comment
above even worse. This is incorrect. Jane Campion is a New Zealander. New
Zealand is NOT South Australia! It is extremely ignorant to say this.
Tracey a damn proud NZer
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:54:03 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Native Americans
Message-Id: <199606251154.VAA25044@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would have thought that the men lead first because, if there was any
imminent danger, then the man would "cop it first" so to speak, thereby
protecting the ones they loved.
Michael from Down Under
You wrote:
... A Native woman leader quoted her mother as saying it was right
that men should walk ahead of women, but only so the women could tell
the men where to go.
Laura wrote:
I feel that if men walk ahead, that's it's to clear the path for the
women.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:54:05 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A Request
Message-Id: <199606251154.VAA25054@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I must admit, and I am not proud to say, that we have a very similar
situation here in Australia with our indiginous Aboriginal culture. I only
hope and prey that the world can look at what the USA did with their
indiginous Indian culture and not make the same mistake. We have much to
learn from these people, treat them with pride and respect.
Michael at times not proud to be Australian.
You wrote:
Tracey's ideas added to this. Recently there was a big treaty
settlement in N.Z. aimed at compensating the Maori for past land
confiscation. Yet when I carefully read the article in our local
newspaper I realized it was so full of contradictions that it essentially
said nothing. Meanwhile on the CNN TV channel I was treated to a
bubblehead who enthused about what a "great victory" it was for the Maori,
but I was skeptical; no real details were given and victories for the
disadvantaged don't come that easily.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:54:00 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Rivalry (was movies)
Message-Id: <199606251154.VAA25027@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jon,
I hate to tell you this but the only true rivalry between Australia and New
Zealand in on the Rugby pitch, and that is because they are the only two
teams worth mentioning in the World.
Surely you cannot be serious about English people being mistaken for Ozzies!
Michael proudly from down under
Jon said:
Oh no, we're caught in the crossfire of Australian - NZ rivalry.
Believe me folks, this can make the battle of the sexes seem tame!
If it's any consolation Tracey, English people in their thousands are mistaken
for Australians when we visit the US.
Jon
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and comments should be sent to listmasterenaissoft.com. For a list and
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___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:54:02 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Female Leads
Message-Id: <199606251154.VAA25034@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jet,
Isn't Hillary Clinton currently having consultation with all these people
you mentioned?
Michael from Down Under
Jet said:
We can look at our own (US) political history here: Eleanor Roosevelt,
Mamie Eisenhower, for two...among many others
Queen Elizabeth, Catherine the Great, Indira Ghandi for others in
the world's political history.
Jet
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 05:28:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thelma & Louise
Message-Id: <199606251228.FAA24334@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
FEThe Quick and the Dead
FEThe Piano
FETank Girl
FEThelma & Louise
^ ^ They were not in control. They were manipulated into
ending up the only way they "could," in the male perspective--dead--
Cop-out ending. I was always disappointed in that. They had to
pay anyway. I hated that.
CybErotiComm Online
Hmmm - I rather liked the ending - I tend to find "happy endings" to be the
real cop-outs. So far as them being manipulated, not in control - who, aside
from the rich & powerful, really -is- in control? IMO, they were strong
characters, who at least reacted against the brutality of the rapist and
rejected the idea that they needed police/society to look after them, vice
either accepting it quietly or simply reporting it.
Even in the end, they rejected the future, or lack of one, that was being
offered them, by going out in style, together.
Side note - another movie showing a strong woman, reasonably in control, is
"Cutthroat Island", with Geena Davis & Matthew Modine. Very light-hearted
escapist fare, but enjoyable. Geena, as a pirate leader, is smart, brave,
swings a mean fist and swordblade, and doesn't rely on any man to save her.
(Plus, when Modine is pulling a bullet from her, she says "Hey! I'm supposed
to be torturing _you_!"
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.